03:29:22 <m-relay> <j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/CdcXvltUbrorSnEIwoopgyLW
03:29:38 <m-relay> <j​ordan_sanchez:matrix.org> It's so over 😔.
03:34:27 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/hackliberty.org/LDWtygoCBThaBtjXmLtMbQHG
03:34:27 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> **XRP 🚀**
03:35:15 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> reverse curerncy of the world
03:42:21 <snex> why would you not just dump your illicit btc onto bisq
04:06:35 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> They found me!
04:13:47 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Greed
04:22:03 <snex> greed? i see bisq trades complete at over 10% premium all the time. of course thats xmr -> btc. other way around not so much but you can move big numbers quickly
04:42:34 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> When laundering your filthy Al Qaeda coins through Monero, a certain loss is acceptable 🕵️
04:43:25 <snex> couple months ago i saw a guy dump like 25btc for xmr at like 2% loss
04:44:05 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> Smart guy.
10:47:05 <m-relay> <h​bs:matrix.org> At last Binance announced it is delisting XMR \o/
10:49:30 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://github.com/jermanuts/bad-opsec
10:58:58 <m-relay> <m​obley:converser.eu> Binance is delisting xmr 🫣
10:59:53 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Old news
11:01:51 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> This is going to keep coming up -.-
11:02:20 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Should we sell it all now ? Are we going to zero
11:02:34 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Tired of holding it for half a decade
11:02:39 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Short!
11:02:41 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> And zero improvements
11:02:55 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Short to liquidation ?
11:03:40 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> The great monero reset
11:04:20 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> To zero and then monero 2.0 with seraphis by 2040
11:04:33 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yest
11:05:09 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> If it goes to zero we can buy core?
11:05:21 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Thanks for the insight I will dump my 0.1 xmr
11:07:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Core coup time
11:08:29 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Empty all wallets, burn it all
11:10:57 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Are there are exchanges that delisted Zcash?
11:11:54 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Its funny how people are shocked, we could see it coming a mile away.
11:12:28 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Doubt it they have t addresses and lobby
11:17:44 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Recently ? No
11:18:04 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Dev tax used to bribe
11:22:30 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Tbh i dont really care
11:23:40 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Yah let’s just dump xmr and move on
11:26:49 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Omg a private and Untracable coin is getting delisted by doj 🙀
11:27:17 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> ^ this is my shocked face
11:33:52 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> What’s next ? No SSL
11:34:23 <m-relay> <h​bs:matrix.org> VPNs will go first, except NordVPN
11:35:46 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Linux next
11:38:13 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Better start monero mesh network
11:38:23 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Line of sight
11:43:14 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> https://lowendtalk.com/discussion/192529/huawei-claims-they-have-something-better-than-the-linux-kernel
11:59:28 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> I thought Monero policy was meant to help Monero
12:00:00 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Plz write harshly worded letter
12:16:26 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/aJWKlZmbxbsYoRMZoVIdaEuN
12:17:29 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Extremist?
12:18:25 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> There's nothing extremist about using Monero
12:41:54 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Monero is extremist for bankers
12:43:30 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Just because some people apply that label to the project because it competes with their interest, doesn't mean we have to perpetrate that bullshit
12:45:35 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And this applies particularly to the "extremist" wannabe larpers who try to shoehorn the project into whatever political ideals they may have, in their small corner of the world, as if they applied to everyone else
12:46:06 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Monero is money. People use money. The end.
12:46:34 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> And same applies to ppl who run conferences and talk more about dnm adoption and do zero work on mainstream adopting monero
12:47:51 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> I thought that's what r/Monero was for.
12:54:12 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> SSL 😂 Boomer.
12:54:41 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> So what’s it termed nowadays
12:56:59 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> TLS.
12:58:08 <m-relay> <k​okoqeen:matrix.org> TrasherDK: why did you dump all your monero ?
12:58:28 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> Eh, what?
12:58:59 <m-relay> <k​okoqeen:matrix.org> It is really hard to find monero guys in DK. Do they really exist ? :)
12:59:36 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> I wouldn't know. I haven't been there for a decade.
13:00:13 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> My server is still located in Denmark though.
13:01:26 <m-relay> <k​okoqeen:matrix.org> Are you able to speak Danish still ?
13:04:04 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> LOL, ja da. Hvad tror du?
13:07:12 <ofrnxmr> He thought it was testnet
13:34:28 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> I tried to sell them at 10 cent on the dollar, but nobody stepped up.
13:51:01 <m-relay> <k​okoqeen:matrix.org> Jeg kan ikke talle det
13:57:23 <m-relay> <t​rasherdk:monero.social> Anyways, this is a English speaking forum, so that's what I speak.
15:07:11 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> Hey does anyone know a list of free up to date monero RPC nodes?
15:08:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I could only find 1 RPC node but it doesn't support restore_deterministic_wallet it seems
15:08:40 <snex> monero.fail
15:10:19 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> aren't those just nodes that host the monero blockchain?
15:10:25 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I see no filter by rpc nodes
15:12:36 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I get
15:12:37 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ```-32601: Method not found
15:12:37 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> RPC request: 'restore_deterministic_wallet' with params: {"password":"mypass","filename":"mywallet","seed":"myseed","language":"English"}
15:12:38 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ``` on all of them
15:13:16 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> is it formatted incorrectly or are the nodes not up to date or sonething?
15:14:02 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I get
15:14:03 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ```
15:14:03 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> -32601: Method not found
15:14:04 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> RPC request: 'restore_deterministic_wallet' with params: {"password":"mypass","filename":"mywallet","seed":"myseed","language":"English"}
15:14:04 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ``` on all of them
15:14:11 <snex> ...are you sending your seed out to publicly listed monero nodes??
15:14:13 <MajesticBank> remote node would be monerod
15:14:24 <MajesticBank> you need wallet-rpc still
15:14:38 <MajesticBank> where you send such request
15:15:09 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> Just using a seed for a wallet I just created obviously
15:15:25 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> what do you mean I need wallet-rpc still?
15:16:19 <MajesticBank> there are two components in what are you trying to do
15:16:53 <MajesticBank> are you on linux?
15:17:00 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes
15:17:22 <MajesticBank> what are you trying is https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html
15:17:27 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I am using a monero java library
15:17:53 <MajesticBank> you have monero-wallet-rpc in bin folder or near?
15:17:54 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I know
15:18:09 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> Im trying to use the "restore_deterministic_wallet" rpc function
15:18:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes I do
15:18:35 <MajesticBank> https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/14072/how-to-connect-monero-wallet-rpc-with-my-local-node
15:19:09 <MajesticBank> my experience with wallet-rpc and remote node is not the best
15:20:02 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> well the library I'm using is a wrapper for this basically
15:20:09 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I have a connection to a daemon
15:20:15 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> and a connection to an rpc node
15:20:28 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> but when I go to call the function from the rpc node I get that error
15:22:23 <MajesticBank> you have local node?
15:23:05 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> no like I said Im connected to a daemon
15:23:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> a node hosting the blokchain
15:23:30 <MajesticBank> so remote?
15:23:54 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes
15:24:06 <MajesticBank> but connected how? 
15:24:30 <MajesticBank> you mean you are using lib to send request to it?
15:24:38 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes
15:24:58 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I just have a daemon object from the lib thats connected to the blockchain
15:25:33 <MajesticBank> daemon <-> wallet-rpc <-> library
15:26:57 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> the rpc node doesn't host the wallet files or anything right?
15:27:10 <MajesticBank> no, your host that locally
15:27:57 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ah yeah okay
15:28:21 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> so if you want to recover your wallet from a seed you always have to pass your seed to the rpc node?
15:29:18 <MajesticBank> the opposite
15:29:19 <MajesticBank> never
15:29:29 <MajesticBank> all stuff is on your pc
15:30:09 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> so how can you get the rpc node to recover from your seed without sending it?
15:30:32 <MajesticBank> you don't deamon is for blockchain stuff
15:30:38 <MajesticBank> all wallet stuff, seed
15:30:47 <MajesticBank> happens with wallet-rpc
15:30:50 <MajesticBank> on your local pc
15:31:03 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html
15:31:29 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> it says under "https://www.getmonero.org/resources/developer-guides/wallet-rpc.html" the mnemonic seed is passed
15:32:01 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> it says under restore_deterministic_wallet the mnemonic seed is passed
15:32:08 <MajesticBank> as I said
15:32:14 <MajesticBank> wallet-rpc is not remote node
15:32:31 <MajesticBank> two components, remote node, remote pc
15:32:36 <MajesticBank> wallet-rpc, local pc
15:32:39 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes but I am trying to connect to an rpc node
15:32:47 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> aaah
15:33:07 <MajesticBank> library talks to wallet-rpc
15:33:23 <MajesticBank> what's why you get not found
15:33:39 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ```curl http://localhost:38083/json_rpc -d '{"jsonrpc":"2.0","id":"0","method":"restore_deterministic_wallet","params":{"filename":"My Wallet","password":"mypassword123","seed":"awkward vogue odometer amply bagpipe kisses poker aspire slug eluded hydrogen selfish later toolbox enigma wolf tweezers eluded gnome soprano ladder broken jukebox lordship aspire","restore_height":0, "lan<clipped message>
15:33:39 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> guage":"English","seed_offset":"","autosave_current":true}}' -H 'Content-Type: application/json'
15:33:40 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> {
15:33:40 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "id": "0",
15:33:41 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "jsonrpc": "2.0",
15:33:41 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "result": {
15:33:42 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "address": "9wB1Jc5fy5hjTkFBnv4UNY3WfhUswhx8M7uWjZrwRBzH2uatJcn8AqiKEHWuSNrnapApCzzTxP4iSiV3y3pqYcRbDHNboJK",
15:33:42 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "info": "Wallet has been restored successfully.",
15:33:43 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "seed": "awkward vogue odometer amply bagpipe kisses poker aspire slug eluded hydrogen selfish later toolbox enigma wolf tweezers eluded gnome soprano ladder broken jukebox lordship aspire",
15:33:43 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "was_deprecated": false
15:33:44 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   }
15:33:44 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> }
15:33:45 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ```
15:33:45 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> listen on the site
15:34:12 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> wait its not pasting correctly
15:34:13 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> curl http://localhost:38083/json_rpc -d '{"jsonrpc":"2.0","id":"0","method":"restore_deterministic_wallet","params":{"filename":"My Wallet","password":"mypassword123","seed":"awkward vogue odometer amply bagpipe kisses poker aspire slug eluded hydrogen selfish later toolbox enigma wolf tweezers eluded gnome soprano ladder broken jukebox lordship aspire","restore_height":0, "langua<clipped message>
15:34:13 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ge":"English","seed_offset":"","autosave_current":true}}' -H 'Content-Type: application/json'
15:34:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> {
15:34:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "id": "0",
15:34:15 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "jsonrpc": "2.0",
15:34:15 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   "result": {
15:34:16 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "address": "9wB1Jc5fy5hjTkFBnv4UNY3WfhUswhx8M7uWjZrwRBzH2uatJcn8AqiKEHWuSNrnapApCzzTxP4iSiV3y3pqYcRbDHNboJK",
15:34:16 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "info": "Wallet has been restored successfully.",
15:34:17 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "seed": "awkward vogue odometer amply bagpipe kisses poker aspire slug eluded hydrogen selfish later toolbox enigma wolf tweezers eluded gnome soprano ladder broken jukebox lordship aspire",
15:34:17 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>     "was_deprecated": false
15:34:18 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org>   }
15:34:18 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> }
15:34:19 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> you send your seed in the message
15:34:52 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> in this case to localhost, but since I'm using a remote rpc node, I send it to the remote rpc node no?
15:35:26 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> No. Listen, or rest and come back to this problem. You are not understanding basic explanations.
15:36:08 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> `monero-wallet-rps` is a _separate_ program that you run on your own machine.
15:36:17 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> -rpc I mean
15:36:58 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> You run that on your own machine if you are connecting to a remote node or if you are connecting to a local node..
15:36:59 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I know
15:37:10 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> `monerod` is a separate process
15:37:12 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes
15:37:48 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> You send that RPC call to `monero-wallet-rpc` from whatever stack you are sending it from.
15:38:01 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Which will be on your local machine
15:38:27 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> The remote nodes do not run `monero-wallet-rpc` for you.
15:38:55 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> so then what does an rpc node do?
15:39:14 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> (a remote rpc node)
15:40:57 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> It keeps a database with the blockchain. It verifies the consensus rules of new blocks, relays txs from other nodes that it receives, and send txs to other nodes that it receives from wallet programs like `monero-wallet-rpc`
15:41:21 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> And it gives data to wallet programs that allows them to check what txs the wallets have received.
15:41:30 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Which is what syncing a wallet is.
15:41:38 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> isn't that the same as a normal monero node?
15:42:05 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> I just described a monero node. `monerod`
15:42:12 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ooooh
15:42:27 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I thought rpc nodes and normal nodes were 2 different things
15:42:30 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> That's what a remote node is. Usually they have RPC access enabled.
15:42:45 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> aaah I see
15:42:50 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> I understand now
15:43:11 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> guess ill have to include the shared object files from the library that include the monero-wallet-rpc stuff
15:43:12 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> But many people run `monerod` so that the RPC requests can only be received from their local machine.
15:43:16 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> got it thanks
15:43:30 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Are you building an application? A way someone can lose money?
15:43:47 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yeah well Im building for android, so I would rather not host the entire blockchain locally
15:43:49 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> yes
15:44:13 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> using `monero-wallet-rpc` with a remote node is unreliable. The connection sometimes drops and doesn't reconnect. Strongly recommended to run your own local node.
15:44:42 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Building for android? Go to #monero-community-dev:monero.social  and ask for libraries and updated info on best practices.
15:44:46 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> like I said I don't think that's much of an option on mobile wallets
15:44:57 <m-relay> <t​homasdebock:matrix.org> ah alright, thanks
16:21:21 <ofrnxmr> theres an app call "http shortcuts" that can make json requests 
16:22:16 <ofrnxmr> You can run monero-wallet-rpc with remote nodes. Yes its a PITA, but you can try to force reconnections to new daemons with "set_daemon"
16:22:30 <ofrnxmr> App = for android and foss
18:17:33 <m-relay> <s​ecuencias:matrix.org> __*Binance delists Monero*__
18:17:33 <m-relay> <s​ecuencias:matrix.org> https://simplifiedprivacy.com/binance/
18:18:12 <sech1> "Withdrawal supported till May 20th" withdrawals are already dead on Binance
18:19:00 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Reset counter
18:19:06 <snex> the world is on fire. go on bisq and dump all your monero
18:19:21 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Dump all in ccs
18:19:39 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Or on vtnerd magic proposal
18:29:49 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Happy that exchanges are delisting Monero. Less market manipulation and more stability for us also more deals on localmonero I hope
18:37:55 <m-relay> <e​dge7:matrix.org> Nice article
18:54:44 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Is it still possible to buy XMR on kraken?
18:54:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yes
18:54:58 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Think so
18:55:08 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Time to register for account then xD
18:55:49 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> MEXC also have them, and it's no-kyc
19:03:18 <m-relay> <e​dge7:matrix.org> Anyone used this in Europe?
19:04:16 <snex> why arent you all just using bisq
19:04:17 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> not gonna lie simplifiedprivacy articles are useless. The conclusions are often super weird
19:04:23 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I use it from many EU countries
19:04:30 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> the fucking interface
19:04:42 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> I can't use a software running a 2 fps
19:04:58 <snex> stop computing on a 486dx
19:05:06 <m-relay> <e​dge7:matrix.org> Works with Fiat or swap only? Having dinner, so cannot check right now myself
19:05:20 <RavFX> snex: Why waiting for contract when you can just press-button?
19:05:21 <snex> bisq has fiat and many altcoins
19:05:35 <snex> RavFX: you can be a taker on bisq
19:05:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's a crypto only CEX
19:06:16 <snex> bisq is not a CEX at all..
19:07:18 <RavFX> Yeah, Bisq is not a CEX. Wen Haveno (I want the on/offramp directly in XMR)
19:08:30 <m-relay> <s​omeoneelse495495:matrix.org> one day ig, because at the moment Haveno had good idea and a promising UX, but then price fall cut them loose
19:08:46 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> I want to buy some cheap XMR with Fiat. Thats it. All I ever used is XMR so buying XMR with XMR is not an option.
19:09:07 <Inge> Now is your time stnby!
19:09:11 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I kind of have the same problem lol
19:09:12 <snex> localmonero/agoradesk
19:09:36 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Localmonero/agoradex is like the only one for now
19:09:47 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Yeee
19:09:50 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Work great, never had any problem with localmonero
19:10:05 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Kraken taking a while to verify my ID
19:10:06 <great_taste> going to zero
19:10:15 <great_taste> paypal won, xmr has been defeated
19:10:17 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Want to buy buy buy before my flight
19:11:16 <m-relay> <k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> Lol
19:12:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Imajin using Scampal in 2k24
19:14:28 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> looks like saberhagen and thankful_for_today dumped its coins lol
19:14:55 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> looks like saberhagen and thankful_for_today dumped their coins lol
19:15:25 <m-relay> <k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> Yeah I am alao dumping my esoteric inflation bug coins
19:15:35 <m-relay> <k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> Its ogre
19:15:45 <m-relay> <k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> Yeah I am also dumping my esoteric inflation bug coins
19:16:53 <great_taste> gfdshygti53: most people do
19:17:27 <great_taste> it's the unfortunate reality
19:17:42 <RavFX> great_taste: Stopped using them after they stole money from me for the second time lol
19:42:38 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> agree
20:46:18 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://www.thedailybeast.com/8chan-users-migrating-to-zeronet-are-accidentally-revealing-their-locations
20:46:50 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> you are literally using a p2p network, expect to leak your IP. You should have used Tor
20:46:53 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Anyways Zeronet is dead
20:47:51 <snex> imagine not just using i2p
20:49:20 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> There are people using it?
20:49:33 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> active?
20:49:43 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> I never tried it
20:49:50 <snex> yes i2p is active
20:50:01 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeep
20:50:32 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> How active?
20:50:50 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Does it have something like dread?
20:50:59 <snex> i think dread has an i2p mirror
20:51:17 <snex> it feels like the mid 90s internet if you were around then
20:51:26 <snex> irc, lots of "my homepage" sites
20:51:37 <snex> there are monero nodes
20:51:58 <snex> a decent torrent tracker (for linux isos)
20:54:45 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> yeah, I heard many use it for torrenting
20:55:34 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Tor not that great https://blog.torproject.org/bittorrent-over-tor-isnt-good-idea/
20:57:06 <snex> most big clients dont support i2p and the safety of ones that do is questionable but i2p comes with an i2p-only torrent client
20:58:45 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> you mean support
20:58:46 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://github.com/BiglySoftware/BiglyBT/wiki/I2P
20:59:01 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://forum.qbittorrent.org/viewtopic.php?t=11085
20:59:01 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> you mean support i2p
20:59:32 <snex> yeah i dont know how safe those are about not leaking your IP since they operate on both networks
21:08:03 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> I've used I2P, what I disliked is that it can take 1-2 hours to become fully connected with the network to access every I2P site. Its not that good if you just want to open I2P once every week for 15mins.
21:10:48 <snex> thats why you just leave the router running forever in a daemon
21:12:04 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> What I did is left a I2P router running 24/7 on my Nas, and browse on my personal laptop using the SOCKS proxy that it provides you.
21:12:11 <snex> yeah
21:12:23 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Just setup a second firefox profile thats only used for I2P.
21:12:29 <snex> exactly
21:14:48 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> I2P also has a bunch of Clearnet proxy sites that let you use non-I2P websites, just like Tor.
21:15:25 <snex> it does but you should be getting people to move to i2p rather than use outproxies
21:15:39 <snex> i want i2p to be in the kernel network stack lol
21:18:36 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Bought XMR at 100, already at 12% gainz 🚀
21:19:19 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Looks like its rebounding: https://pro.kraken.com/app/trade/xmr-usd
21:19:43 <snex> conspiracy take: binance was FRBing it and somebody caused a run, so binance did this to tank the price so they can cover
21:31:30 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> fuck xmr droopped like crazy
21:37:58 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> It’s a sale
21:40:19 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> depends on ur perspective
21:40:20 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> i just lost a lot of fucking money
21:40:43 <snex> you had 1xmr yesterday. you still have 1xmr today. you havent lost anything
21:40:53 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Sold ? Or notional loss
21:41:27 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> for ppl who use the xmr to transact. yeah they lost
21:42:08 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> The value will likely rebound, as XMR hasn't lost any utility, only 30% trading volume from Binance.
21:42:13 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> No they still have xmr, unless they wanted to settle in Fiat; they should have done it asap
21:42:20 <snex> how? because the sellers of goods and services raised their prices? welcome to literally every currency ever for the last 100 years
21:42:28 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> back to 150-160?
21:43:22 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> you only lose if you sell it
21:43:36 <snex> in any case the fact that sellers of things have raised their prices does not mean you lost money
21:43:38 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> yeah im just going to hold it
21:44:17 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> but im seriously considering hodling in another coin and only using xmr for transactions now.
21:44:41 <snex> yeah that totally wont destroy you in fees. in fact go on bisq right now and dump all your xmr
21:44:45 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> People speculated Binance was suppressing the price, so it could rise above 150 over the next few months
21:45:01 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> My dream is buying gold with Monero.
21:45:20 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> besides btc, the other coins arent raped in fees
21:45:39 <snex> i agree. log in to bisq and dump it all
21:46:33 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> nah. no point. i have a few k in xmr sent to me daily for transactions so itll just be sent right back to me
21:47:10 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> not gonna dump. just unhappy abt my wallet being 1/3'd
21:47:33 <snex> sounds like youre operating some kind of illegal business
21:47:48 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Short term the price could fall to 80 or 50, but long term I believe the value will recover.
21:47:52 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> bc im using xmr?
21:47:53 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> lmfao
21:48:07 <snex> receiving multiple ks per day
21:48:08 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Nothing illegal about using Monero 😛
21:48:23 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> exactly. nothing illegal abt it
21:48:34 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> The problem with Monero is and has always been Esperanto.
21:48:34 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Change it to something like german and it will go up smoothly and consistently.
21:48:35 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Just rename it to Münze!
21:49:06 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> i actually wonder if the price is gonna fall even further
21:49:12 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> that would be completely fucked lmfao
21:50:11 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> as long as it eventually recovers...think of it as a sale
21:50:32 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Bitcoin recovered all of it's massive crashes
21:51:09 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> any new money i receive in xmr. i can think of this way. the money i currently alr have
21:51:15 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> i can only think of it getting 1/3'd
21:51:42 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> im not too worried bc i have stable income coming in but
21:51:56 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> and more xmr to come
21:51:59 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> but like
21:52:21 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> imagine if i didnt have that, now i know why ppl kill themselves over stock market crashes lmfao
21:52:24 <snex> how come every time the US government prints a few trillion dollars you dont say "oh no my bank account just got 1/3"
21:52:36 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> However, if you think it will drop below 50, better to sell now and buy again at 50 etc. Im no investor so don't take my advice.
21:53:18 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> Speculation is a hell of a game.
21:53:18 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Never ever sell = can't lose, it's still yours.
21:53:33 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> well usually. if something costs 2 dollars at the store. the next day it wont cost 3.
21:53:34 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> 1 Monero = 1 Monero
21:53:44 <m-relay> <i​stral:matrix.org> I myself am not selling since I'm in it for the long run.
21:54:00 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> but this might be less and less true given the economy nowdays
21:54:01 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> i might ride the boat...
21:54:13 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> we will see
21:54:25 <snex> right it still costs $2 but you just have to work 33% harder to afford it
21:54:59 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> yeah.
21:55:00 <snex> or its 33% shittier
21:55:10 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> im not saying fiat is good either
21:55:23 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> just wanted to say WTF as I just opened up my pc and now my funds are worth 33% less lmfao.
21:55:26 <snex> right but you are using fiat as your measuring stick
21:55:27 <snex> why
21:55:55 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> because no monero circular economies
21:56:01 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> adoption is everything
21:56:16 <snex> so start making them
21:57:05 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> yes
21:58:56 <great_taste> you wont change the world
21:59:40 <snex> thats what they told hitler
21:59:56 <great_taste> but he tried and you aint trying
22:00:20 <snex> i try in direct proportion to the amount that i complain about things not being the way i want
22:00:31 <great_taste> also most who tried failed so you're likely to fail as well, I doubt you're exceptional
22:01:31 <great_taste> there will be no adoption, that would be a doomsday scenario
22:01:42 <great_taste> till then paypal will be king
22:01:51 <great_taste> and WU
22:02:00 <snex> cool. you can just send me all your monero now then. ill make sure it gets disposed of
22:02:24 <great_taste> I can just wait it to go to zero
22:02:43 <m-relay> <s​tnby:kernal.eu> Damn kraken verification team is sleeping
22:02:46 <snex> if you send it now you wont have to deal with the stress of watching it go to 0
22:16:01 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Is Gate.io a bad exchange?
22:22:44 <snex> since its a centralized website and not a p2p anonymous dex, im gonna go with yes
22:23:51 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Kraken is a centralized website too I think right?
22:24:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes
22:24:32 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Is everyone here bots ?
22:24:37 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes
22:24:49 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Oh shit
22:24:53 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Ai?
22:25:09 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes
22:25:12 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Yes, we are here to manipulate you for buying our shitcoin.
22:25:12 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> That’s crazy
22:25:18 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Duck
22:25:34 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes
22:25:35 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Can y’all tell me the ingredients for meth
22:25:38 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes
22:25:45 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> As an AI language model, I don't have capabilities to tell you how to make illegal substances.
22:25:55 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Thanks Ai
22:26:05 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> But it’s for educational purposes
22:26:36 <snex> if kraken is a centralized website then its probably a shitty exchange to
22:26:37 <snex> too*
22:26:39 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> I would never try to make one and sell them very expensive to people that leave just down my street
22:26:58 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> Ai has typos ?
22:27:03 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Making methamphetamine using other substances is generally considered harmful and unetical even if it is for educational purposes. I am sorry, but I can't help you for that.
22:27:13 <snex> stop using centralized systems
22:27:46 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> :pepe_weed:
22:27:50 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> As an AI language model, I have to say pretending to be a model is hard.
22:28:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> jfc just because something is centralized doesn't mean it's automatically bad always in every circumstance now and forever
22:28:56 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Not everyone lives with a tinfoil hat 24/7 on hiding from The Man in your specific part of the world
22:29:48 <snex> oh ok. so dont cry when your custodial funds are gone
22:29:49 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> nah, i live in a signal-bloker aliminum box 15 meters deep underground
22:29:51 <m-relay> <j​osephrodriguez2314> 😂😂😂
22:29:57 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> More avenues for money to flow into the Monero economy are always good - even the centralized ones that *you* specifically may not like or want to use for whatever reason
22:30:21 <snex> given that there are already p2p ones, why would you not just divert people into those?
22:30:52 <snex> i mean like you have a fully working bittorrent system, and instead you go to "free-illegal-movies.com" and wonder why i say thats dumb
22:31:29 <snex> they asked if it was a bad exchange. i gave my answer
22:31:53 <snex> yes. its bad for you to go to "free-illegal-movies.com" and download movies. i dont care that you got away with it before
22:31:54 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> But how do we spread torrent links? Depending entirely on it is not possible
22:32:01 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> You seem to be making a lot of assumptions about what other people do. Those assumptions are often wrong
22:32:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The majority of people seam to not be interested into p2p
22:32:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> For example, look at BlockDX, it's usable for a ton of pairs (not monero), yet it have zero volume.
22:32:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I guess they are going to do the p2p once all other CEX option are dead
22:32:19 <snex> you can spread torrents anywhere. all you need is the shal1 hash
22:32:27 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Kraken has been a good exchange for Monero, at least so far
22:32:43 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There is usually only 2-3 maker on UnstoppableSwap and it's available since more than a year
22:32:59 <snex> the majority of people use p2p when they know about it and it delivers what they want. just like bittorrent
22:33:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Because other alternative got crushed and most people did not know about usenet.
22:33:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> ie:  It was the only good way.
22:33:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There is still plenty of CEX...
22:33:55 <snex> yeah and how many are exit scams?
22:33:57 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And for merchants, institutional investors, and big traders, having a nice platform that operates smoothly, has a nice paper trail for tax forms, and can handle a daily volume bigger than the entire liquidity on most p2p platforms is *a good thing*
22:34:18 <snex> lol "paper trail for tax forms"
22:34:28 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, imajin being a high frequency trader and having to wait for confirmations or for contacts to comply at each trades
22:34:55 <snex> yeah imagine having to pay for your own security rather than outsourcing it to a government that never delivers and CANT deliver
22:35:05 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> p2p is a little bit hard for Monero because understanding itself is hard. Instead, we should depend on dex'es where there is liquidity and real market price
22:35:06 <snex> i mean your argument destroys crypto itself
22:35:08 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Or having to file a github issue somewhere and hope that you didn't just lose all your money when something goes wrong - and then wait and pray that someone fixes it
22:35:31 <snex> imagine losing your wallet password and nobody can reset it for you
22:35:37 <snex> oh noes we should just let the government handle all money
22:35:59 <snex> imagine your cash gets stolen oh man now youre broke i guess we should just cbdc
22:35:59 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> So many slippery slopes, you should put a "Wet floor" sign
22:36:20 <snex> youre the one pouring soap all over the slope
22:36:25 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Might as well just link the wikipedia article on logical fallacies
22:36:44 <snex> psst, slippery slope isnt a fallacy when youre literally arguing for it
22:37:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> I'm pointing out that the world is big, and different people have different needs - even ones that you personally disagree with
22:37:19 <snex> then why do they need monero at all?
22:37:22 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> But that's unacceptable, because anyone who does things differently is clearly wrong
22:37:35 <snex> whats their use case for monero, exactly?
22:37:49 <snex> or are you just trying to get them into it so your own bag goes up?
22:37:49 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> True, but there should also be ways for people that want to trade on dex's with cex comfort
22:37:53 <snex> because thats shady af
22:37:57 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Monero is money. Use case is whatever can be done with money. End of story
22:37:58 <nioCat> snex: https://x.com/krakenfx/status/1754891973062697235?s=20
22:38:05 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> BlockDX
22:38:10 <snex> why is monero money?
22:38:12 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But people don't use it so it rot
22:38:57 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Do you have centralized trading platforms with money? Yes. Then you want centralized trading platforms with Monero too, because that means Moneros are flowing and that's a good thing for the Monero economy (and for your own pockets too!)
22:39:09 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Even if you're not using them, you're still benefitting from them
22:39:25 <snex> monero isnt money because you repeat a bumper sticker slogan. monero is money because it offers privacy. but you are arguing that its best for some people to get rid of their privacy to use monero. total nonsense
22:40:22 <nioCat> *some
22:40:29 <snex> we already have non private money. its called dollars
22:40:29 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Non-sequitur. Just because you're buying/selling (or even just trading) your Monero on a CEX doesn't mean that you're "getting rid of your privacy"
22:40:44 <snex> go play with your government dollars
22:41:12 <snex> lol yes it means exactly that. ffs
22:41:19 <snex> every trade you make is no longer private
22:42:16 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Ah yes, because the exchanges know everything that I do with my Monero after I withdraw them, right?
22:42:19 <nioCat> no cause monero duh
22:42:27 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Go claim that 600k bounty
22:42:38 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Or actually figure out what you're talking about
22:42:54 <snex> what withdraw? you tell the exchange to send directly to target wallets on your behalf
22:43:07 <snex> because thats how centralized exchanges end up working
22:43:15 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> There plenty of non KYC CEX
22:43:15 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You can have a brain and churn your output if you are the parano kind.
22:43:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Personally I do try all P2P option. 
22:43:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * The Best one was BlockDX, it never got the Nero and got abandonned.
22:43:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * Then You have Bisq, it kind of work but you don't have the most usefull part of it, the on/off ramp, if BTC only
22:43:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * Then You got UnstoppableSwap, It work, it have on average 2 or 3 makers with small amount
22:43:18 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> * You also got Basicswap, The Windows installer don't work (biggest user base. Then when you use it on Linux it still have plenty issue (last time I tried to use it, I got to fish my monero out by moving the wallet file on another computer to open it with a wallet that work.
22:43:27 <snex> and even if YOU dont do it that way, the people you are recommending them DO. and they still have your IP and various other info about you
22:43:32 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Isolating yourself from the rest of the world's economy is a great way to starve to death while yelling into the void "But I am right!"
22:43:49 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Haveno is still not mainnet. But that is the one I hope for, because it also have fiat on/offramp for monero
22:44:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> > what withdraw? you tell the exchange to send directly to target wallets on your behalf because thats how centralized exchanges end up working
22:44:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> OBJECTION YOUR HONOR, Making false generalizations about user behaviour!
22:44:30 <snex> bruh you are literally pointing people to "illegal-movies.com" when bittorrent exists and pretending its just as good
22:44:32 <snex> you look foolish
22:44:58 <snex> just be quiet already. we get it. you love government ramming their cock up your ass
22:45:07 <snex> but thats not why people seek out monero
22:45:09 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Hey, no kinkshaming!
22:45:25 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> People who like that stuff can use Monero too
22:45:32 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> That's why Monero is so great
22:45:43 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> It doesn't care
22:45:44 <snex> no, they cant actually. because monero is inherently anti-government
22:46:05 <snex> governments are legitimized mafias who operate on theft. and monero is very hard to steal
22:46:20 <snex> but people like you want to make it easier to steal by recommending that people used centralized bullshit
22:47:40 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> No, Monero is not anti-anything. Stop shoehorning your personal political ideals (which don't apply to the rest of the world) to an entire project
22:47:40 <snex> there are thousands of shitcoins and fiat currencies that are inherently designed that way. go use those
22:47:48 <snex> but it is
22:47:56 <snex> you being too slow to get why isnt an argument
22:48:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Guess what: I'll keep using Monero, and there's nothing you can do to stop me
22:48:22 <snex> which is the real irony here
22:48:27 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Monero is a privacy coin.
22:48:28 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's so anti governments that some governments are probably accumulating it 😂
22:48:39 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Because "Monero" doesn't give a shit about your ideals - nor mine, nor anyone else's
22:48:44 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> guys calm down, being harsh doesn't change anything
22:48:49 <snex> you should stop using monero because you hate what it fundamentally is, not because i can force you
22:49:07 <snex> it would be like saying youre a mormon but getting wasted every night
22:49:10 <snex> gotta pick one, buddy
22:49:30 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> you forgot where the decentralization part is the second biggest card of Monero
22:49:53 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> I mean, if you know better than me what I love or hate or stand for, then what do I even exist for? Just take my place
22:50:14 <snex> i dont "know better." im using your own words that you have said
22:50:26 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> For example Solana stopped for 5 hours and then "some people" decided when to resolve back. Monero doesn't have that "some people"
22:50:40 <snex> you want to funnel people into centralized systems so that they can be good little government drones
22:50:42 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> The words that pointed out that the world is bigger than the bubble you live in? Those words
22:50:45 <snex> thats what you said
22:51:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> I want people to have *options*, because more options is always better
22:51:16 <snex> doing shit the way things already work with fiat is not an option
22:51:22 <snex> its what we already have with everything else
22:51:33 <snex> you want that "option?" yes its called dollars
22:51:36 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> You have the *option* of not using them, just like others - who may want different things from YOU
22:51:37 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> aah, don't be that extremist man
22:51:41 <snex> you dont understand what the options actually are
22:51:46 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> aah, don't be that extremist, man
22:52:20 <snex> what exactly is the benefit of monero if you plan to tell the government exactly how much you have and how many taxes you want them to steal from you?
22:52:38 <snex> like you said i cant force you to stop using it. but if you tell the government all about it, THEY can force you
22:53:08 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Because when the usage reaches a critical mass, it can't be stopped anymore
22:53:08 <snex> somehow i doubt you have ever used it at all
22:53:46 <snex> lol a critical mass of WHAT? retards just reporting it all to the government via CEXes? do you somehow think they wont just take that over for their own benefit?
22:54:17 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> But when "extremist anti-gubbmint" larpers assign labels and shoehorn misguided political ideals into pieces of code, they give easy ammunition to those they're pretending to fight against
22:54:22 <snex> if CEX was all we had then what you are saying might make sense. but p2p options exist and work
22:54:51 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yes, *options*. And nobody is saying that you *shouldn't* use them
22:55:02 <snex> uh huh. just like when abolitionists came right out and said slavery was wrong, they were "giving ammunition to the opponents"
22:55:16 <snex> cant be extremist about slavery. gotta be nuanced
22:55:17 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> But some people, like ones running businesses, have needs different than YOURS
22:55:34 <snex> if you run a business then why would you want to accept monero? list me some reasons
22:55:43 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> bro calm down, we all have citizenships of countries, you know that right?
22:56:26 <snex> i run a business. dollars work. why would i want monero?
22:56:29 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> detherminal Nah man, everybody lives in the USA on the internet, don't you know? Their laws and ideas are the only ones that apply
22:56:44 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> The rest of the world is just a bunch of trivia living on Wikipedia
22:56:53 <nioCat> lol
22:56:55 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> How do you transfer money decentralized?
22:56:56 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> snex dollar doesn't work
22:56:56 <snex> huh. no answer. weird
22:57:13 <bibideJaffa> What we see happening again and again is that CEXs are very vulnerable to outside pressure.. Although XMR suffered a drop on the charts, it's Binance that's going through a real existential crisis
22:57:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> > i run a business. dollars work. why would i want monero?
22:57:15 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Because you like Monero, and you want to use it. The end. Other than that, idk, go ask all the other businesses accepting Monero
22:57:18 <snex> elaryan. what do you mean? i sell tshirt. customer gives dollar. i use dollar and buy food
22:57:32 <snex> ROFL. exactly. you have no fucking clue
22:57:39 <snex> you dont know why anyone would want monero
22:57:45 <snex> yet youre happy to have them out themselves to a CEX
22:57:49 <snex> fuck outta here, fraud
22:57:55 <snex> which federal agency do you work for?
22:58:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> > huh. no answer. weird
22:58:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Ah yes, I took my attention off of you for 30 seconds, clearly you have won all arguments and are the best most knowledgest man. gg
22:58:28 <snex> you cant even put yourselves in the shoes of a business owner, despite the fact that YOU brought them up
22:58:45 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> guys calm down and accumulate XMR more, benefit from it both of you
22:58:47 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Dollar loses value every day.
22:58:47 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> People that have opinions different than those of the government lose their access to their bank account. 
22:58:48 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Cash is being killed before our eyes, it's gonna be dead soon.
22:58:48 <m-relay> <e​laryan:hackliberty.org> Dollars 👏 dont 👏 work 👏
22:58:53 <bibideJaffa> This is a very exhausting conversation to follow
22:59:17 <nioCat> when dollars lose value they give me more of it 
22:59:30 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> You also skip the part where it is centralized, you guys still don't talk about decentralization too is a big part of Monero
22:59:36 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> "Anyone who disagrees with me is a government shill" - ah, I see we have reached the ultimate "no u" crypto-argument
22:59:47 <snex> detherminal nah i see it as a key part. he doesnt
23:00:44 <bibideJaffa> Obviously, while I understand why traders have a need for CEX's, I don't believe there are many XMR holders who keep their assets on a CEX
23:00:59 <bibideJaffa> that would kinda defeat the whole purpose
23:01:00 <snex> but traders dont have a need for a CEX
23:01:11 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> It's constructive talk, nobody is throwing these at eachother yet
23:01:28 <bibideJaffa> IDK, I can imagine some value speed/convenience to some degree
23:01:39 <bibideJaffa> I'm not a trader, it's their job
23:01:52 <nioCat> <snex> but traders dont have a need for a CEX <<>>  lol
23:02:00 <snex> you cant magically add speed or convenience to monero without fundamentally breaking it. you arent using monero anymore
23:02:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> All my NW is in crypto, but the only thing I keep on CEX, is that I have pre-planned for my trading strategy... Stuff that can't work on slow p2p platform. I wish they could be faster but stuff have to confirm, both way
23:02:07 <snex> youre using the CEX's promises
23:02:44 <snex> gfd: you arent trading crypto. youre trading CEX promises
23:02:48 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> b​ibideJaffa no, you're only allowed to manually exchange 20$ worth of xmr every time you want to buy a pack of gums. Traders who use automated bots and have portfolios of 10k$ or more don't actually exist IRL, they're just a spooky story you tell people
23:02:54 <m-relay> <o​gre14t:matrix.org> Jumping in for a sec to add my 2 cents. IMHO XMR is THE cypherpunk solution, which inherently means it's aim should be to be immune or as close as possible of state influence, which does seem quite anti-government. As we have now seen many times, the state will happily exert pressure upon anything centralized. All that said, a steak knife is meant for cutting meat, but some are ha<clipped message>
23:02:54 <m-relay> <o​gre14t:matrix.org> ppy to cut their own throats. /rant
23:03:21 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I'm mostly the scalper type, try to do that on a P2P platform
23:03:36 <snex> gfd literally load up bisq...
23:03:40 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Do you really know how trading worked before crypto existed, like about 100 years of time. They were all on "CEX's"
23:04:07 <snex> deth: yes i do. and this is not an argument. we have the tech to get away from that
23:04:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That's a contract based platform, not only you have to intact with other people but you have to wait for confirmations.
23:04:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That's no got for high frequency and scalping strategy
23:04:32 <snex> when you buy stocks on etrade, you dont own stocks. you own etrade's promises
23:05:08 <snex> gfd ok and what i am telling you is that there is NO way around this. the CEX is lying to you by saying there is. you are merely just trusting them to honor the trade
23:05:16 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> snex and that's why business regulations exist
23:05:44 <snex> LOL
23:05:45 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> and since most of the world doesn't live in your country, you cannot make reasonable assumptions about them
23:06:01 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> "but muh gubbmint bad" yeah sucks to be you
23:06:04 <snex> yeah because regulations always favor you and not the CEOs the politicians golf with
23:06:06 <snex> delusional
23:06:33 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Unfortunately Monero itself is slow for these purposes, the market moves second-by-second and you need speed for it. If an order of yours takes 10 minutes, you are really gonna fuck up your trading money.
23:06:36 <snex> and how will the government regulations save you with monero?
23:06:54 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> They honored all of mine so far so....
23:06:54 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Actually never lost to a CEX exit scam because well, I deposit money in the morning and I withdraw it when I'm done playing press button
23:07:07 <snex> detherminal: you are assuming that someone else can trade faster than you. but they have the same 2 minute block time that you do...
23:07:44 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Many of the CEX I used in the past Exit scammed.... But that... is for people who **leave** there stash in the CEX 😂
23:08:09 <bibideJaffa> it always works until it doesn't
23:08:09 <snex> you mean like the newbies that come in here asking for advice and get told by endor to just park their shit there?
23:08:12 <snex> yeah i agree
23:08:22 <snex> so we should stop pointing newbies at those things as a starting point
23:08:31 <nioCat> he never said park your shit there
23:08:45 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Noboy says newbies should start with CEX's :thi
23:08:51 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Noboy says newbies should start with CEX's 🤔
23:08:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The trick is to not leave money when you are not playing.
23:08:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And leave what you need for your positions if you keep them overnight
23:09:04 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Nobody says newbies should start with CEX's 🤔
23:09:54 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Sad that SimpleFX is ditching XMR :(
23:09:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can't short forex scam with XMR collateral anymore :(
23:10:28 <snex> true he didnt tell them that, he just started a big ass argument with me when i told them NOT to do that
23:10:47 <nioCat> he started an argument  lol
23:10:51 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If you just want to switch X to Y from time to time, it make sense to use p2p platform
23:11:12 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> > you are assuming that someone else can trade faster than you. but they have the same 2 minute block time that you do...
23:11:13 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Do you think trades on a CEX correspond to chain transactions?
23:11:51 <snex> if they dont, then they arent trading monero
23:12:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> LMFAO
23:12:21 <nioCat> where did I get all this monero
23:12:24 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Imajin losing you used to be profitable scalp because you did not reach 10 confirmations
23:12:30 <nioCat> let me check my wallets agin 
23:12:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> To close the trade
23:13:07 <snex> yup. you dont know what monero is. to you its just a ticker. you somehow think you are trading monero 1000s of times per second
23:13:17 <snex> you are trading nothing but the empty promises of an exit scam
23:13:27 <bibideJaffa> you obviously have no idea how markets work
23:13:32 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Buy and sell orders on a CEX only shift balances in their internal ledgers. Otherwise you'd be burning all your coins in tx fees
23:13:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You talk to someone who have no bank account and use Monero as a unit of account
23:13:37 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Only deposits and withdrawals correspond to on-chain transactions
23:14:24 <snex> uh uh. keep trading those empty promises. will be hilarious when the rug is pulled on you
23:14:50 <bibideJaffa> everyone has to manage their own risk, jokes on you
23:15:29 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> No, his threat model applies to literally everything and everyone everywhere, he has it all figured out!
23:15:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> yep, yoohooo, I lose 500$ (the max I keep in the exchange in any time)
23:15:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I like leverage
23:16:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Anyone doing anything else is wrong! And you can't be wrong on the internet!
23:16:34 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> BTW, people did lose money on DEX
23:16:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> that can append too....
23:16:59 <snex> "i trade tulip bulbs for a living. but ive never touched one or even know what one looks like. of course this is sustainable as a career"
23:17:11 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> No way! Decentralization is the only way forward! A decentralized system can't be faulty, because you're not relying on anyone else!
23:17:48 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yep, like mo monero wallet that probably have over 2k TX in it so far (and that one is kinda new)
23:18:44 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I leave less than <0.x% of my network in the CEX, the other >99% is in my monero wallet, but I don't touch the real thing, hilarious
23:19:18 <snex> "i like leverage but <0.x% of my bag is in play at a time"
23:19:22 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> hey guys , are miners transactions down at the moment , I'm over 5 hours waiting for deposit to my wallet
23:19:40 <snex> bonol, miners where? get on p2pool m8
23:19:43 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> are monero transactions down
23:19:48 <ofrnxmr> No
23:19:53 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> This morning I wish I had 50% of my nw in a CEX so I could have insta dumped when I woke up but noooo, I kept 99% if it in my local wallet 😢
23:20:18 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Only 131 txes in the mempool at the moment, things running smoothly as usual
23:20:44 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> my wallet is synced but I haven't received my withdrawal from kucoin
23:20:57 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, google "money management"
23:20:57 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> You know, that stuff people who don't lose everything on CEX with 5 click do
23:21:23 <ofrnxmr> Kucoin didnt send it then
23:21:28 <snex> money management is when you put <0.x% into trading but call yourself a trader
23:21:37 <nioCat> bono1 do you see the tx on a block explorer ?
23:21:42 <ofrnxmr> Check with kucoin support 
23:21:48 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Michael Anthony does kucoin show you a transaction id corresponding to your withdrawal anywhere? If so, try plugging that into https://xmrchain.net/ to check that it exists
23:21:50 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I don't need to put more, I make way enough
23:22:10 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And I can't lose, even if the thing exit scam
23:22:17 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> RavFX 🤐 He hasn't learned about percentages yet, take it easy on him
23:22:36 <ofrnxmr> I super skipped check txid because iirc kucoin doesnt give you one. But its been years now
23:22:50 <nioCat> never used them
23:23:10 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Kucoin give you a txid afaik
23:23:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> did not use it since they enabled KYC
23:24:27 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> If there is a problem with transactions, it's %99.9 percent not about blockchain but isntead about the client and receipent. Can you check the status of your withdrawal in Kucoin. If it shows it is sent then also make sure your Monero wallet is %100 synced with the blockchain.
23:24:39 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> If there is a problem with transactions, it's %99.9 percent not about blockchain but instead about the client and receipent. Can you check the status of your withdrawal in Kucoin. If it shows it is sent then also make sure your Monero wallet is %100 synced with the blockchain.
23:24:48 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> If there is a problem with transactions, it's %99.9 percent not about blockchain but instead about the client and receipent. Can you check the status of your withdrawal in Kucoin? If it shows it is sent then also make sure your Monero wallet is %100 synced with the blockchain.
23:24:58 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> what's CEX again?
23:25:03 <agent314> anyone here?
23:25:18 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> agent314 no
23:25:26 <agent314> oh ok good to know
23:25:28 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Hello, does somebody hear me?
23:25:34 <agent314> i'm not here either then
23:26:05 <agent314> can anyone lend me a snowboard?
23:26:22 <agent314> i plan on using to ski down the monero slope
23:26:28 <agent314> *using it
23:26:38 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> My wallet reads fully synced but it seems to be behind the current transaction height numbers , any ideas how to fix , using a remote node
23:27:00 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Which wallet? Can you try resyncing fully
23:27:14 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And also, which node?
23:27:43 <agent314> oh sorry, i think i need to go to #monero-markets for that discussion
23:27:53 <m-relay> <b​usyboredom:monero.social> And is the wallet up to date?
23:28:34 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> its a GUI wallet
23:28:57 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Binance (yeah, I know, bad... evil... But Quantower work so well with the exchange that have the most volume, I love volatility)
23:28:58 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Also Mexc, TradeOrgy... 
23:28:58 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> SimpleFX (To trade Forexes and Indices mostly, I don't really touch the stocks part of it).
23:29:40 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> CEX = Centralized Exchange, i.e. an exchange platform ran by a private company
23:29:57 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Ok which one do you like most? Is TradeOrg still doing XMR?
23:30:03 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> I dont think so my height is reading 3072378
23:30:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> *run, what are grammars?
23:30:18 * agent314 is nervously updating localmonero every 5 seconds
23:30:48 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> ACCUMULATE!
23:30:51 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, TradeOgre is very good for XMR
23:30:51 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And support is fast, like 10 minutes when withdraw get stuck 😂
23:31:08 <agent314> is it KYC?
23:31:18 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Yeah, current height is 3078629, so you are like 6k blocks behind (~10 days)
23:31:18 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Can you try resyncing again
23:31:25 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Don't do this just yet
23:31:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> nop, tradeogre is like running in someone basement in antartica or something
23:31:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> no kyc
23:31:46 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Michael Anthony What't the node you're using? ip:port
23:32:33 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Oh ok, I will try them
23:33:28 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> currently on 145.239.97.211:18089
23:33:36 <agent314> oh ok, so you just buy BTC or something and then trade for XMR on tradeogre
23:34:41 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> That node is reporting a height of 3070207
23:34:51 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> So it's even further behind than your wallet is
23:35:12 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> So either it's buggy, or it's actually malicious
23:35:21 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And trying to spy on you
23:36:02 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> im not technical unfortunately, can you recommend a better remote node
23:36:19 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Try xmr-node.cakewallet.com:18081
23:36:43 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Where did you find that node?
23:38:39 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Cake wallet works well it seems, sometimes I forget to let the blocks load all the way though. If that happens does it just reset, will that mess up my wallet somehow?
23:39:11 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> You mean you close your wallet before it has finished syncing?
23:39:24 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> That's fine, it will just pick up where it left off next time you open it
23:39:53 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> No it won't, you will just have to continue scanning the blockchain from where you left at. It will probably automatically do when you open the wallet.
23:39:54 <m-relay> <g​uest880:matrix.org> Well I will be doing something in the background, then I think its synching, then it stops possibly, maybe I need to be viewing it on the app without trying to multi task
23:40:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> (Unless you encounter issues when it's trying to save the wallet cache as it's closing down everything)
23:40:19 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> thanks so much guys I really appreciate the help , used the cake wallet node , wallet now fully synced and my withdrawal from kucoin in the wallet ,
23:40:34 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Michael Anthony Can you answer this?
23:41:50 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> I honestly can't remember its been the node used on the wallet for months - year , I can't remember where I got it ,
23:41:56 <agent314> wow it turns out ive been running local node this entire time i didnt even notic eit
23:42:27 * agent314 likes this https://monero.fail/ for nodes
23:42:37 <agent314> *liked
23:43:23 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:matrix.org> Just to say: your money was always in your wallet when the transactions is completed. You just checked your balance correctly 😄
23:44:00 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> I just hold monero on gui , I opened again today as I wanted to take off miners I bought today on kucoin , I buy these gifts , binance essentially stole all the miners it had on the platform from its clients
23:44:18 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> yes very well put ,
23:45:00 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> To be fair, no miner should be mining directly onto an exchange deposit address
23:45:47 <agent314> i'm not sure i understand why people would hold money in binance
23:45:57 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> exchange deposit address should only be used when you want to actually trade on said exchange.
23:46:02 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> People are laze
23:46:06 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> lazy*
23:46:36 <agent314> like i've just opened my wallet, then got xmr through mining or localmonero, then paid people with wallet
23:46:46 <agent314> how does binance enter this i dont understand exactly
23:47:09 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Way too much people use the exchange as there "wallet"
23:47:42 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Some people are afraid of screwing up the deposit on the exchange, and/or don't want to pay the network fees because they're too high
23:48:30 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And also what RavFX said
23:49:02 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's convenient for them, you can log from anywhere and you don't have to setup and learn other software.
23:49:06 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> You can always count on users being lazy and doing the worst thing, when it the easiest
23:49:49 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Imagine locked staking XMR on Binance 💀
23:49:52 <agent314> i'm not being derisive, i genuinely cannot understand what exactly service binance would offer me 
23:50:22 <agent314> except for i suppose the joy of losing xmr after trusting it to a "big, trustworthy centralized exchange"?
23:50:42 <agent314> wait i get it, there's interest right?
23:51:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> If you're staking, yes. If you just deposit your coins, no
23:51:05 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Binance is for trading and gambling. Your money don't belong there if it's for another use, except if you use credit card to buy crypto on binance, **then** you should withdraw it asap.
23:51:16 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> ^
23:51:33 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Many use crypto as just another form of unregulated gambling
23:51:44 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> being delisted from finance is a good thing in my opinion
23:51:57 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> binance
23:52:07 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And when platforms like Binance offer you so many different "games" to play with, ain't nobody got time to figure out all the wallets for all the coins
23:52:33 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If Binance is actually naked shorting XMR (seam to be the case), then yes, the delist is good
23:52:54 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> More avenues for money to flow into the Monero economy are good, generally speaking
23:53:24 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> if you look at reported volumes on kucoin , kraken  etc for monero there's no way they have anywhere near that amount of actual miners
23:53:25 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> And that includes centralized platforms (that don't actively try to harm your economy by manipulating prices)
23:53:28 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> miners
23:53:34 <agent314> the main problem for me has been that local monero is like nearly empty now
23:53:46 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> monero
23:53:57 <agent314> well, not empty, but fewer traders and they're asking for bigger minimum amount
23:53:59 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Volume != coins held
23:54:01 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Really depend of your location.
23:54:15 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> what does this even mean
23:54:20 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> naked shorting xmr
23:54:22 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> If I deposit 1 monero, and I trade it back and forth 10 times, that will show up as 10 xmr trade volume
23:54:35 <agent314> i have same question as ilove9999 :)
23:54:37 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Selling XMR that don't exist
23:54:46 <agent314> oh
23:54:59 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> the theft by binance of customers monero will encourage guy with monero on kucoin etc to withdraw , they won't be able to fulfil the withdrawals
23:55:00 <agent314> isnt that what FTX did?
23:55:09 <agent314> not with XMR
23:55:16 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> wtf
23:55:16 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> how is that even possible
23:55:39 <snex> ilove9999 its possible because the chain is private so they can just lie
23:55:47 <agent314> basically i get it, there's a bank run 
23:55:50 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> ilove9999 as long as you don't withdraw your coins, you can trade back and forth as much as you like on the exchange
23:55:52 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's possible as long as people use the platform.
23:55:53 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> the malicious actor can buy the XMR at a lower price later. Or not at all
23:55:55 <snex> if you "trade" monero with another binance user they can just say they did it and lie
23:56:10 <m-relay> <i​love9999:matrix.org> whats the incentive to do that
23:56:21 <snex> not having to hold monero at all
23:56:28 <m-relay> <p​olar9669:matrix.org> Cap price
23:56:31 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Artificially lowering the price of an asset
23:56:31 <snex> or hold less than you owe
23:56:36 <snex> the same shit that banks do
23:56:39 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> if I know I have 100 xmr in stock , I can sell 500 xmr because I know nobody will actually withdraw it off the exchange , finance essentially impounded the monero today , who steals something that's worthless
23:56:51 <agent314> binance said they're gonna delist xmr so everyone is like OH NOES GOTTA GET MY XMR but binance being a respectable, 21st century bank of course wasted most of the monero it got from people so it doesnt have enough to pay people back
23:57:24 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> It shows up as many people "selling", but the seller is actually the exchange creating orders that aren't backed up by coins in their wallet
23:57:36 <agent314> delisting i understand, but how can they not give your stuff back and still remain solvent/liquid/whatever the financial word is for not-bankrupt
23:57:56 <snex> because they arent accountable to you
23:57:57 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> They can also have fake order in the book than vanish when you hit them and shit like that
23:58:04 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Because the regulations for crypto platforms are still very lax, compared to traditional finance
23:58:08 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> there giving you usdt that's fake fiat , they keep the monero
23:58:18 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> The exchange operator can do that, but the exchange users can't do that
23:58:36 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Look like it's there plan
23:59:10 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> They are allowing XMR withdraw for like 3 months but for how much of that time that the withdraws will actually be enabled
23:59:43 <m-relay> <x​ygyl:matrix.org> Why do people even trade on Binance? Doesn't that defeat the point of monero? I suppose it's because people are treating it like any other investment, but it seems like when you misunderstand something's purpose you get in situations like this
23:59:47 <m-relay> <b​ono1:matrix.org> again there's no way the exchanges can pay out all the actual monero they have liability for , its like having 100 coats and 700 coat claim tickets , binance keep the coats , and devalued the tickets short term
23:59:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Binance probably want a bunch of cheap monero for long term.
23:59:55 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I'm sure they love monero, especially when they can make it cheaper.
23:59:56 <agent314> ^ basically what xygyl said