01:09:22 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Join us SATURDAY morning at 11AM-EST/4PM-CET to talk about paying for AI using Monero w/ @TonyD993 + Price Report📈 w/ @BawdyAnarchist_, News🗞️ w @tony_huszar & MORE!
01:09:23 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> 👀➡️: youtube.com/watch?v=JhM5D6…
01:09:23 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> Join ➡️: streamyard.com/wgfdeaxuxn
01:09:24 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> 🙏🏽
01:09:24 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> 🎢@cakewallet @monerocom
01:09:25 <m-relay> <k​orgprivacy:matrix.org> 🎢@LocalMoneroCo
02:38:43 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Wordpress?
03:11:24 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> someone should code an alternative monero daemon in php
03:16:09 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> and force snex to use it
03:48:57 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> truer words were never spoken, remiliascarlet
03:49:36 <gingeropolous> one day ima have the daemon in shell script
03:49:54 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> based
03:50:56 <gingeropolous> scripts calling scripts.... it'll be glorious
03:51:27 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> 😂
03:51:50 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> make it so it support smort concractts
03:54:19 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> https://github.com/rothgar/bashchain
05:41:56 <ThommoMC> Why is it that when you import the blockchain through blockchain.raw it slows down as it goes?
06:33:39 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> Newer blocks are harder to validate for various reasons
13:50:54 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> muh more cheap transactions
15:17:47 <remiliascarlet> Service announcement: You can no longer trust Twitter thumbnails! https://www.nichepcgamer.com/archives/x-twitter-url-card-critical-vulnerability.html
15:29:37 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> Ia this the right place to complain about monero.com wallet? 😅 I am super frustrated. The last payment I made was a month ago and every time I enter the app it wants to synchronize multiple thousand blocks. I can sit and wait forever but I never managed to be patient enough for it to finish syncing. At 30min max I changed apps and started using my phone again. For whatever re<clipped message>
15:29:37 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> ason this kills the sync (why can't it just sync when the app is open in the background?). I turned on agressive background sync in the settings so I hoped that It would keep the wallet synced at all times or only have to sync a few hundred blocks whenever I open the app... However this does nothing... So now I can either let my phone rest for some hours, or use it as I would thr<clipped message>
15:29:38 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> oughout the day and never reach a synced status 👍😭
15:30:24 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> I know this sounds super salty. Might be a me issue, user error or specific technical reason on my end. I dont want to piss anyone off I am just annoyed 🥲
15:32:13 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I think android usually kill app in background right?
15:32:14 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ideally you would open the wallet regularly so it's stay synced?
15:32:14 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I don't have much experience with them, using only Monejuro from time to time but it's what I do, like open it once a week or something.
15:32:20 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> try ask in cake wallet room
15:32:30 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I think android usually kill app in background right?
15:32:31 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Ideally you would open the wallet regularly so it's stay synced?
15:32:31 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I don't have much experience with them, using only Monerujo from time to time but it's what I do, like open it once a week or something.
15:33:31 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> agressive background sync will make things worse
15:42:06 <remiliascarlet> wrought, this is a blockchain related problem rather than a Monero wallet one. Monero just happens to get more and more popular, and by that, more and more transactions are being made, and with that, you'll start having to get in-sync again more often.
15:43:54 <remiliascarlet> gfdshygti, just running `monerod` should be enough. Although you guys seem to be talking about an "app", so it's most likely a smartphone-only thing, and no idea how it works on those.
15:44:55 <remiliascarlet> I kinda do, because I use the CLI wallet and monerod on a smartphone, but that's because I have a Linux phone, so not Android and not iOS.
15:51:43 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, monero.com is an "app".
15:51:43 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> I mostly use desktop (feather wallet) and I have my nodes. Wallet stay open 24/7 and stay in sync.
15:51:44 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Phone wallet is just for the rare time I travel
16:23:06 <m-relay> <c​ollardbeans:matrix.org> Same for me, they have live support chat in cake app and i had major issues all week told me to turn off background sync and gave me different nodes. Got the sync to work but couldn't get exchange to go through and gave up.
16:23:06 <m-relay> <c​ollardbeans:matrix.org> Deff issues tho
16:23:08 <m-relay> <k​arano:poddery.com> Cake Wallet
16:23:30 <remiliascarlet> I'm a hikikomori most of the time, so I almost never use my phone.
16:23:53 <m-relay> <k​arano:poddery.com> wrought959: collardbeans:  check #cakewallet:monero.social
16:25:22 <remiliascarlet> I sometimes go outside, because I have to at least a few times a month, and feel miserable for that.
16:26:19 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> hows that?
16:27:00 <remiliascarlet> Being home is just more comfortable.
16:27:08 <remiliascarlet> It feels like I'm right at home.
16:27:12 <m-relay> <c​ollardbeans:matrix.org> Broken
16:28:25 <BlueyHealer> What Linux phone do you use?
16:28:27 <m-relay> <w​rought959:matrix.org> ok 😅
16:29:05 <remiliascarlet> PinePhone.
16:30:27 <remiliascarlet> Librem 5 might have been beter, but they're way more expensive, and they don't even seem to actually arrive for a lot of people on top of that.
16:32:17 <uncle_rae> is the pinephone usable as a daily driver?
16:38:43 <BlueyHealer> I don't even know who can afford Librem lol
16:41:25 <uncle_rae> BlueyHealer: how much is it?
16:49:50 <BlueyHealer> Last I have seen, it was around an iPhone price.
17:04:37 <remiliascarlet> uncle_rae: For most people, probably not. For me, it absolutely is.
17:05:35 <remiliascarlet> Literally all I need a phone for is to make phone calls and as a mobile router for my laptop in the few cases I'm not home.
17:06:04 <remiliascarlet> And PinePhone can do both of them on any OS.
17:06:09 <BlueyHealer> $300 is the upper limit of a phone price for me.
17:06:34 <BlueyHealer> It's the laptops and desktops that can go mich higher, there is at least a more notoceable difference.
17:08:32 <remiliascarlet> But if you're addicted to a mobile-only chat app like LINE, WhatsApp, Signal, WeChat, or whatever, you can forget about those. Mobian (Debian for PinePhone) does come with Telegram pre-installed though, but not sure if it works. You can also install Dino for XMPP or Polari for IRC.
17:09:16 <remiliascarlet> And some Matrix client, but I can't think of anything that has all the features other than Element, which is not going to work well.
17:09:35 <uncle_rae> i'm looking at the pinephone pro as a secondary device
17:10:00 <plowsof> #monero-offtopic 
17:10:14 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Just get a ThinkPad X200, install OpenBSD on it, and you have a super cheap laptop from 2008 that runs like if it were bought in 2026.
17:11:47 <remiliascarlet> "But we're in 2024, not 2026." Yes, that's the point.
17:13:22 <m-relay> <d​ufebo98:monero.social> The monero network is under a black marble attack. How will the privacy be impacted?
17:13:33 <uncle_rae> is openbsd really that much better than the various linux distros?
17:15:12 <remiliascarlet> OpenBSD is a bit slower in comparison, but when it comes to security it's like a bunker.
17:15:35 <plowsof> #monero-offtopic uncle_rae remiliascarlet 
17:15:57 <remiliascarlet> plowsof: I'm already there, but uncle_rae doesn't seem to be there.
17:16:07 <m-relay> <d​ufebo98:monero.social> Say, if all the decoys in a transaction came from the attacker, what kinds of information would reveal to him? The spender,The amount, or the receiver?
17:16:11 <BlueyHealer> If you're addicted to mobile-only apps - Waydroid exists.
17:17:20 <BlueyHealer> "All of the decoys in the transaction"? Just how likely can this be?
17:20:27 <remiliascarlet> But overal, OpenBSD has a lot more merit than Linux has, especially when compared to post-2018 Linux. Everything is based on technical merit rather than political drama, OpenBSD kernel is lean and clean (Linux kernel is bloated as fuck these days), OpenBSD is developed entire by a single team whereas Linux distro's are developed by a bunch people in total isolation from one other, the only downside
17:20:29 <remiliascarlet> is that there's considerably less software for OpenBSD than there is for Linux, but might as well be an upside, because most software these days sucks anyway.
17:24:09 <BlueyHealer> That is a questionable upside.
17:25:46 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> i wonder if theres less software because the "lean and clean" kernel doesnt enable software developers to write software that people want to use
17:27:22 <remiliascarlet> snex, BlueyHealer, #monero-offtopic
17:27:38 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> unban me and ill go there
17:28:25 <remiliascarlet> We really need an independent IRC server for Monero...
17:28:41 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> host it on i2p
17:28:41 <remiliascarlet> Instead of relying on Libera.Chat.
17:29:18 <remiliascarlet> You can host on the clearnet too, it's a hell lot easier than hosting a Matrix server, which is what Monero does.
17:29:40 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> i2p is uncensorable even in principle
17:29:49 <remiliascarlet> Yes.
17:32:05 <remiliascarlet> An IRC server hosted on I2P can be censored if the wrong people are appointed to be operators though.
17:32:20 <remiliascarlet> But other than that, it can't.
17:33:12 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> it still cant
17:33:20 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> all the opers can do is take the whole server down
17:33:54 <remiliascarlet> They can kick and ban your nick if a nameserv is used.
17:34:09 <remiliascarlet> They can't IP ban you, that would take the entire server down with you.
17:34:14 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> ok but thats just an annoyance
17:35:37 <remiliascarlet> Yes, but that's what I'm trying to say here. Even on all the "uncensorable" platforms or protocols, if the wrong people have control, things can still get censored in one way or the other.
17:36:08 <remiliascarlet> But that's a human problem rather than a technical one.
17:36:14 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> the best way to run it would be to have the offtopic be free and open, then the "srs" channels be +im
17:36:46 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> or maybe just +m
17:45:37 <BlueyHealer> I find it a bit uncomfortable how big Libera is and how many projects rely on it... I remember looking into hosting an IRC server, and it seemed fairly doable, especially if you're more than just a hobbyist.
17:45:54 <louipc> you aren't even talking about monero. what do you need another server to not talk about monero for?
17:47:31 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> i2p already has an irc server hosted by postman, a trusted guy in the community. no reason that server couldnt be used
17:48:31 <BlueyHealer> Given that for some people here a VPS price is pennies - I just don't see why not. I think we should self-host whatever we feasibly can.
17:48:38 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> to talk to other monero fans about those things
17:49:09 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> theres a #monero channel on the postman i2p server already. should all just start showing up
18:54:15 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> That is not truly decentralized, @snex:matrix.xens.org 
18:54:15 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Registration might be required, etc.
18:54:15 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> The best approach is to make it like jell-o. You know? Resilient.
18:54:26 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> And the best way to achieve that is through total decentralization.
18:56:06 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> nothing is truly decentralized unless users are willing to self-host, and vast majority will not self-host a chat server. you dont NEED a decentralized chat for monero discussion
19:00:46 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> I am thinking of a better way of self-hosting.
19:01:47 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> i2p has "self hosting" built in as you must run a router that contributes bandwidth in order to be on it at all. its very hard to get people to self-host without a reward structure
19:10:13 <BlueyHealer> What such a reward structure even look like?
19:10:24 <BlueyHealer> *would even look like
19:10:31 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Then why ruining it with a centralized IRC? XMPP would be better suited since it federates.
19:10:57 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> xmpp is trash (though so is irc tbf)
19:11:23 <BlueyHealer> Plus built-in history, ye. That seems like a good option too.
19:11:43 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> continuing #monero-offtopic:monero.socialsnex simplemachines BlueyHealer
19:11:54 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> @plowsof:matrix.org are you vegan?
19:11:56 <BlueyHealer> Why is it trash? I find it the most optimal communication method for me so far. Easy to host.
19:12:02 <m-relay> <s​nex:matrix.xens.org> sure, soon as you unban me
19:13:57 <nioCat> For many does messages are being lost in the matrix 
19:14:05 <nioCat> So good lolol
19:14:21 <nioCat> Does=days
19:15:23 <nioCat> Matrix.org doesn't like monero_social
19:15:48 <BlueyHealer> I do wish to join some matrix rooms, but since I have a VPS, don't want to use a public server and want to selfhost.
19:16:39 <BlueyHealer> But I have less than a gig of spare ram and very limited storage. Apparently Synapse, which would probably not have enough resources to work, can auto-purge media at least, but have not figured that out for Dendrite or Conduit. 
19:17:38 <BlueyHealer> If it worked like XMPP, where you only are responsible for your own media and history - it would have been so much easier.
19:20:16 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Can we just make an official Monero IRC network?
19:20:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Like a few of us just spawn IRC servers and just link them together.
19:20:17 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> And get rid of woke matrix scam in the same time
19:20:45 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> @gfdshygti53:monero.social What would be the difference with the current room? Someone bans you and there is no recourse.
19:21:15 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Also matrix is good for monero because of UI/UX.
19:21:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> At least the admins have some control
19:21:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Like right now matrix.org is shadowbanning us right?
19:21:41 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Then Libera ban people themself too
19:22:22 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> It doesn't matter who controls, there's still centralized control.
19:22:31 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Make it fluid.
19:22:40 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Make it impermanent and permanent at the same time.
19:22:42 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Resilient.
19:23:32 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Probably is you can't have it both way.
19:23:32 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> If admins can get rid of spammers and scammers, they can also get rid of peoples
19:24:26 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> it's ok having a censor as long as you can vote him in and out.
19:24:33 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> the best way to achieve this is through voting with your feet.
19:24:40 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Yeah, a votin system could be nice
19:24:59 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> lol
19:25:07 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> as long as votes are actually enforced (remember me of some other project that was supposed to be released last year)
19:25:09 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> >Say, if all the decoys in a transaction came from the attacker, what kinds of information would reveal to him? The spender,The amount, or the receiver?
19:25:09 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> let me butcher an explanation here.. in this scenario, they would know that "some or all" of the output was spent.... the receiver would be unknown*. The spender would be unknown*. *lets use the ccs wallet hack as an example. after stealing the funds, you sent a transaction to a KYC'd CeX or swap service in a transaction with decoys all owned by a Blockchain Surveillance (BS) comp<clipped message>
19:25:10 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> any. They would be 100% certain that the output was actually spent in that tx, and if any CeX or swap service received it. they can discover the kyc'd spender OR follow it one step further on its journey
19:25:33 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> https://moonstoneresearch.com/2023/11/03/Postmortem-of-Monero-CCS-Hack.html
19:25:37 <BlueyHealer> Why not XMPP then? Easier to selfhost.
19:26:09 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> it would be like this^ except no trees... no guessing.. simply a txid(s) known to be the true spend(s) of the outputs you want to track
19:26:28 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> BlueyHealer I'll work on it and let you know.
19:26:48 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> dufebo98
19:27:53 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> if you send-to-self / churn in a transaction with 100% of decoys controlled by an adversary,, you would just churn again.. and again...  (proper churn techniques are not specifically documented)
19:29:01 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> research is on-going though not completed yet (nor satisfactory so far) https://monerofund.org/projects/eae_attack_and_churning and another one Rucknium mentioned
19:29:12 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> any eae eabe or churns are at risk while we have this ongoing spam
19:32:12 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> sorry for the offtopic churn / black marble discussion. lets continue talking aobut FreeBSD
19:32:56 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> how privacy is offtopic lol
19:34:24 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> just joking :(
19:36:04 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> Can't have privacy with Libera demanding you register a real email address through clearnet.
19:36:23 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> KYC mentality everywhere.
19:37:27 <m-relay> <g​fdshygti53:monero.social> That's an other reason why we need proper monero irc network
19:37:59 <m-relay> <s​implemachines:xmr.se> nah, same problem. at least with federated services you can dm other people
19:38:40 <nioCat> Plowsof answering a question that we can't see  lol
19:39:03 <m-relay> <p​lowsof:matrix.org> just another headsup to matrix dot org users: you may not be seeing all the messages here https://libera.monerologs.net/monero/20240323
19:40:03 <plowsof> the chain split is annoying 
19:40:04 <nioCat> Be like me and never get banned 
19:40:35 <nioCat> And it's not like I am trying not to
19:44:19 <m-relay> <j​ack_ma_blabla:matrix.org> that explains the inactivity lol
20:26:21 <m-relay> <1​23bob123:matrix.org> Fck those monero.social peeps 😁
21:49:05 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> perks
23:39:28 <m-relay> <r​zepetor:matrix.org> Hi, can anybody tell me when I run monero-wallet-rpc then it need to sync like open wallet using monero-wallet-cli?
23:41:37 <m-relay> <r​zepetor:matrix.org> Main reason why I ask for it is this case: I am running docker container with monero-wallet-rpc with view wallet from other user, is it possible to this instance could overload CPU when sync if wallet is very old?
23:44:21 <m-relay> <r​zepetor:matrix.org> Main reason why I ask for it is this case: I am running docker container with monero-wallet-rpc with view wallet from other user, is it possible to this instance could overload CPU when sync if view wallet is very old?
23:44:35 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> Yes it needs to sync
23:48:19 <m-relay> <s​iren:kernal.eu> You can limit the container's CPU usage https://docs.docker.com/config/containers/resource_constraints/
23:56:01 <m-relay> <r​zepetor:matrix.org> Siren: Good point, thanks for this clue