02:34:36 any drawbacks to running monero on a thin client pc? 02:34:52 what about running it directly vs mining in a pool? 02:57:47 i figured out why the tx count is high 02:57:47 it's not spam 02:57:47 someone is moving large amounts of monero through swaps 02:57:48 exch, dex like bisq and other cex exchanges have a total volume of around 90k xmr per day rn 02:57:48 the exchanges need the user to send xmr to a new wallet for every swap 02:57:49 at least 90k transactions per day are from these big swaps 02:57:49 this is not a spam attack 03:09:27 He is one of the attacker? 04:19:33 snex, why rely on somebody else to host an IRC server if you can easily host one yourself. I wasn't kidding when I said it's dead easy to do so! https://landchad.net/irc/ 04:40:16 @liplogb if they were genuine transactions by dex and cex , why wouldn't they consider hosting their own monero nodes instead of sending thousands of requests to cakes node and other public nodes ? 04:40:17 Do they have lack of knowledge about nodes ? 04:40:43 @liplogb if they were genuine transactions by dex and cex , why wouldn't they consider hosting their own monero nodes instead of sending thousands of requests to cakes node and other public nodes ? 04:40:44 Do they have lack of knowledge about nodes but could run a cex, dex ? 06:25:32 How will our community resolve the problem of flooding attracting? I’m a little concerned about the future of Monero 08:24:06 90k xmr per day , 90k tx per day & 1xmr big swaps lol ; drank some kool-aid ? 08:25:12 are you sure cake nodes are broadcasting these txs ? if so they can easily identify spamming ips and block them 11:13:11 thats probably dandelion++ in effect https://localmonero.co/knowledge/monero-dandelion?language=en the entire network has to pass the transactions around 11:21:31 Yeah it's most likely not someone using public nodes directly. Nodes use more resources now that there are more transactions. 11:22:10 It would have helped if that k8s CCS proposal was done 11:22:31 It's difficult to scale nodes 11:24:37 written in GO https://github.com/cirocosta/monero-operator , IIRC it worked* or works.. but didnt support tor and some other things 11:24:44 but the ccs is definitely abandoned 11:27:41 cakes issue may be a lack of a proxy node uhm 11:29:31 no idea what im talking about btw, ignore^ 11:29:45 it means due to dandelion ++ even if the attacker is using their own nodes , the other public nodes would get congested with these new txs that this node is broadcasting ? 11:30:39 it means due to dandelion ++ even if the attacker is using their own nodes , the other public nodes would get congested with these new txs that this node is broadcasting ? As the whole network needs to pass around these transactions. 11:33:06 sorry, one major issues with old clients is that they request the mempool from the node every 20 seconds. 11:33:53 an updated client only requests updates (instead of everything) - so you can imagine that people who arent running the latest clients are downloading the bloated mempol from cakes rpc node 11:35:06 dandelion++ increased traffic usage but not to the extent that is causing issues for public rpc nodes. a private monero node who only passes around p2p / dandelion++ traffic is fine with the increased transactions 11:35:34 a hardfork will force everyone to use the latest software which doesnt ddos public rpc nodes when the mempool is massive 11:38:59 a hardfork could remove low fee tier completely :) 11:39:17 because attacker is spending half the money a normal Monero user spends in tx fees 11:39:47 i vote for removing the low tier completely and doubling the expense for attacker 11:40:42 it wouldn't affect normal users much 11:41:16 and I think that the current tx fee is too low anyway 11:41:50 considering monero has automatic tx fees, if price increases then the tx fees will slowly decrease (bigger average block size) in a few months 11:43:49 considering that Bitcoin has an estimate tx fee for ~$2.05 to be included in a block in 60 minutes, I think it's also fine for Monero to double the tx fee to ~$0.015 11:47:50 Btw try updating monero.social to Synapse 1.103.0 (no vulns but bugfixes available) 11:57:06 btw, happy palm sunday 11:59:30 passed that on to the admin Siren, thanks! 12:28:33 yes folks, update to 0.18.3.2 for the health of the network 12:29:04 and yes swap services only use 1in 2 out txs lolololol 14:02:03 So attacker just needs to pay 8-10xmr a day ? Pretty cheap for chain analysis companies 14:03:10 Raise it to 5-10cents and we might see a hit on their pockets 15:49:00 I don't care too much, but I think the better idea is to keep the minimum fees that we currently have. But to actually change the Dynamic fee such that minimum fee never drops. We want to encourage a healthy fee market to develop in the future after blocks expand. If we lower minimum fee after blocks expand after 70 days then we are making it cheaper to bloat. I think minimum fee 15:49:01 should stay unchanged regardless of blocksize, but as Long Term Median gets bumped it then more transactions can be accomodated alleviating upward pressure on fees 15:50:10 Minimum fee should stay the minimum fee regardless of what happens. If congestion is high, then the Long Term Median is in place which will 1.7x the block size after 70 days which will lower pressure on fees. 15:57:47 Ahh nevermind 15:58:16 I just read some stuff from Articmine in the Research Lab channel and I like the current fee structure required to expand the blocks 17:52:38 A government attacker has bottomless coffers. Increasing fee is meaningless. Technical scaling solutions that make it impossible to attack the chain, that make storage costs tiny, and prevent deanonymization in the first place are what’s needed. 17:53:41 Only if it’s a gov, if it’s a chain analysis company it’s not suitable to control 90% recent outputs if fees are high 17:53:43 Fee increase just kicks the can down the road and makes it more expensive for the majority of people 17:54:50 5-10c is not going to hurt, but if you allow sub cent fee and privacy then majority will not use monero anyways 17:55:28 5-10c is not going to hurt, but if you allow sub cent fee and privacy hit, then majority will not use monero anyways 17:59:25 A chain analysis company or vc backed org can afford a 5-10x increase in fees. These numbers are literally cheaper than the urinal cakes on their balance sheet 18:00:37 So now you’ve just made it more expensive to use, and you still face deanonymization and chain blot 18:01:08 If I was attacking, I would hope the community makes the chain more expensive and less likely to be used by average Joe 18:03:16 Btc has high fees and that stopped people flooding mempool woth pictures of rocks right? 18:03:45 I do think fees should be more in line with Nielsens law. If the users of the chain are pushing storage average usage faster than storage technology can keep up, then there should be a fee increase to slow usage down 18:04:22 Making the normal user pay more and inadvertantly contributing to increasing blocksizes while the attacker spams low fees? 18:04:40 Bitcoin has limited block space and actually requires increasingly high fees for it to function from a security perspective 18:05:10 So jpeg spam is fine. If you can’t afford to be in a bitcoin block then you’re fucked. That’s how it was designed. 18:06:15 If Monero is increasing in chain size significantly faster than storage can keep up, then no one will get to use it. 18:07:33 Unless we start designing for large orgs like cake to be the only ones running chains or have heavily pruned nodes 18:08:39 Miner would probably enjoy a 2x in fees though 18:28:33 what is a heavily pruned node compared to a pruned node? 18:30:27 that would be a Light Node (tm) 18:30:50 part of Ruckniums research list https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/69 18:31:27 about 2-5GB ? for when this issue was made 18:43:43 2x in fees in Monero is still almost nothing tho 18:54:04 plowsof: "access blockchain data with reasonable confidence as to its legitimacy." <> that seems to be a lower bar than I thought necessary 18:54:30 Define reasonable 18:56:36 Anyway I got tired of waiting for the chain to fill my 250GB SSD on my old rickety comp so last year I moved to a 1TB one 18:57:42 Being released this year will be the Ryzen 9900X and Samsung 8TB SSD 18:57:54 a reasonable upgrade 18:58:14 please give me a reason to get them. :D 19:03:41 Also please pump for upgrade 19:40:45 a 2x fees is not going to change anything, by keeping fees sub cent you are just inviting any shitty rival project to come and spam your blockchain 20:30:28 no, jpeg spam is not fine 20:30:38 i mean, bitcoin block size would be a problem anyway 20:31:07 but transaction fees would be lower for legit users 20:33:35 btw, only about 9.4 XMR in total are spent daily in fees 20:33:50 that's as low as 0.013 XMR per block 20:34:54 for comparison, 23.8 BTC are spent daily in fees, which is 5.95 BTC per block 20:35:55 EDIT: 0.165 BTC per block 20:39:53 Bitcoin has 144 blocks/day, Monero has 720 blocks/day 21:05:38 My public Monero node Grafana dashboard is now open to public (login disabled) : https://stats.01.its-a-node.org/ 22:41:56 It seems they want to transact/trade in cents and expect sub-cent fees. Maybe you should consider using another coin. Monero cannot allow spamming with little to no cost attached, especially when it affects everyone's privacy by significantly reducing the effective ring size. 23:30:38 xmr price account for this alr. the reason price low is because xmr is shitty until fcmp and seraphis. nothing like increasing fee or ring size will improve anything until fcmp and seraphis. the dev in xmr take long and they may abandon at any time so their uncertainty. if seraphis and fcmp come out prob in 5 years at current rate then price of xmr go up and this spam problem solve 23:32:37 if 5years the chain will be bloated and unusable, if you keep moneros privacy bad the price isnt going to go up 23:33:31 ik but this fault of dev who take long. xmr price went down not because of delisting it never was issue because of other swap service and dex. it went down because of this shitty current implementation. we need fcmp and seraphis now but who knows how long it takes 23:34:06 and by allowing cheap spam and majority of decoys to be owned by certain entities, you are just going to crash moneros price and make it even more cheaper to spam 23:34:10 xmr make fun of bitcoin but bitcoin more secure even if less private. 20% chance of guessing correct output now empirically with 5 ring effective sigs this is very bad 23:34:54 increase ring size, increase fees, fix decoy selection & you have some resistance against these assholes 23:35:58 this does nothing only delay inevitable. if increase ring size it still possible to attack except it's more expensive but not too expensive we don't know. increase fees is useless because the price will 100% go down if it's made super public that xmr needs to hard fork again... there no resistance for this only fcmp and seraphis they need to hurry up or this shitty coin gone 23:36:00 oh look, it's MR xmr.se 23:36:14 *Mr. 23:36:18 so you agree fees and ringsize needs to be fixed asap 23:36:34 no that only delay inevitable. WE NEED FCMP AND SERAPHIS 23:36:55 what happen if fee increase and then price go down 50% or go up? it's bad decision 23:37:11 ringsize is ok but still bandaid solution we need fcmp and seraphis devs hurry up or we going back to bitcoin 23:37:17 oh so your idea is to keep low fees low ringsize and keep privacy low and bring price to single digits, good idea 23:37:31 he has no idea 23:37:39 FCMP and seraphis isnt coming for years, every kid knows that 23:37:58 yes but if u increase ring size and fee it's not going to fix anything if it take years 23:38:33 and price so unpredictible for years how do we know if u increase fee say 10x then price can do anything in next years... 23:38:58 best solution is to increase ringsize (still shitty) and counterspam from monero fund 23:39:02 dude if you increase ringsize they need to own a much higher % and increasing fees makes it even more expensive ; but i guess you can go play with ztrash in the meanwhile 23:39:05 no increase in fee otherwise xmr same as bitcoin. we bully bitcoin say it's bad for high fee and now we increase it? so stupid 23:39:32 no counter spam is effective with cheap fees 23:39:33 you are just bloating the chain 23:39:37 we are increasing to $3? 23:39:43 increase fee will reduce real output 23:39:52 argentinian people and low income use xmr 23:39:57 they stop using it if u increase fee 23:40:26 attack is meant for us to increase fee. increase fee is very bad 23:40:31 who the fuck says it will real outputs ? ppl can afford to pay 5cents for private transactions ; you arent using monero to buy single egg 23:40:46 5 cents assume price stay the same... 23:40:49 Argentinian lol 23:40:52 which it wont stay the same 23:41:22 jack_ma_blabla you should find someone who will discuss this on good faith 23:41:27 what happens if price go down -10x? we make new hardfork again and again? shitty solution 23:41:29 no winners only FCMP AND SERAPHIS but devs so slo 23:41:45 im discuss it good faith. this fee solution is going to ruin xmr u people are police fed trying to ruin it 23:41:52 ringsize + counterspam that's it 23:41:55 you are expecting the price to go 1000 tommorow ? price isnt going anywhere its going to stay here for years, there is no circular economy ; every vendor dumps it for Butcoin or usdt/dai 23:42:16 no -10X it go to $15 therefore tx fee back to normal even if increase by 10x 23:42:25 no -10X it go to $14 - 15 therefore tx fee back to normal even if increase by 10x 23:42:38 dark vendor don't know about black marble yet it not public by much. make hard fork only get worse 23:42:49 we need a higher fee, or else this is going to be very ineffective 23:42:54 they only know there tx spam. not many know decoy know 23:42:56 they only know there tx spam. not many know decoy know 5 23:44:01 ok xmr.se so only argenteians will use and we go to x100 23:44:04 or single digit 23:44:34 xmr.se go and do a PSA on dread , show them what it is 23:44:42 then our devs will wake up from sleep 23:44:44 increase in ringsize = increase in fee and they will get nowhere near the ring reduction they need if this is indeed what "they" are doing 23:44:49 just follow AM 23:45:09 ringsize better than increase fee only. 23:45:25 because it increase block size needed for lower decoy selection 23:45:28 we need this blackswan even to get monero to single digit & finnally get rid of dnm taint 23:45:40 minimum time needed for a HF is 6 months 23:46:05 if this happen price is gone 23:46:25 darknet go back to bitcoin even if shitty still better than this 23:46:51 hot bitcoin better than this 23:46:54 how* 23:47:11 increased ringsize with same shitty decoy selection with majority coming from recent outputs is not going to do jack , they are going to spam that bit extra and bring it to same level of effective ringsize ; but if you increase the fees high it makes their attack a lot more expensive; making it just 4-5x expensive isnt going to do it 23:47:36 bitcoin with whirlpool is safer than this shit rn the guessing probability rn is over 20% and this spam attack hasn't gone on for long 23:47:42 jack is an expert in statistical analysis 23:47:43 bitcoin have 100% detection of the true spend, bitcoin have 1-00% detection of the amount, bitcoin have 100% detection of the destination address 23:47:49 RavFX, NgU bro 23:48:04 bitcoin with whirlpool + eth bridge + tornado safe u shit 23:48:12 no one use only bitcoin 23:48:26 Sure, if you does the extra step and pay the fees many time, yes, indeed 23:48:28 Cat is a expert skeptic 23:48:35 using btc is too complicated for me 23:49:00 yes and it better than the current 20%+ probability 23:49:02 btw, right now btc fees are suspectly low 23:49:05 darknet willing to do this 23:49:07 less than 1$ 23:49:14 XMR is much more compliated, you need to churn 100 times still can be tracked lol 23:49:34 no we just making shit up jack 23:49:40 *now we 23:49:41 fcmp and seraphis will fix so easy but our dev incomptent 23:49:49 effective ring size of 5.5 lol 23:49:55 and no alarms ringing 23:50:10 soon hugbunter make post dw 23:50:21 xmr go to $15 and we done. bitcoin win again 23:50:24 Cat i am bored 23:50:44 they verify if ruck calculation is correct first before warning made 23:50:45 xmr.se go find those devs to build it, go fork it 23:51:00 all good dev on ethereum and bitcoin they cost lots of $$$ 23:51:31 so you are cheap and cant even afford 5 cent fee, you deserve eth tornado 23:51:32 or they building own project like darkfi 23:51:34 no devs touching xmr we only have like 5 dev 23:51:36 those fees are so cheap 23:52:05 how can u be this dumb. with tornado it 100% safe. with xmr even if we raise fee it doesnt guarantee because it rely on price 23:52:20 yes xmr is cracked, go spread the news & maybe get that bounty from uncle sam 23:52:24 we know price manipulated 23:52:32 move to wownero, ringsize is 22 23:52:51 you are dumb to not have 5 cent fees, but want to spend 10s in those shitcoin ethard fees 23:52:54 ringsize 5 23:53:07 5 cent fee IF PRICE STABLE how can u not understand 23:53:16 5 cent still low for attacker we don't know 23:53:23 price isnt going anywhere lol 23:53:38 it can only go down, not up 23:53:59 you are forgetting that, your dnm vendors know that 23:54:19 no because now we have one attacker. change fee have hardfork and now more people know about attack = more attackers and higher fee = less real spends = more fake decoy 23:54:39 you dont know jack xmrcracked, go back to the cave you came out from 23:55:14 u are fed 23:55:23 everyone who say increase fee try to capture xmr 23:55:25 i am the fed 23:55:45 capture xmr lol retarded 23:56:04 it already 20%+ for guess. this mean btc whirlpool and tornado is better alternative 23:56:07 what do u think will happen to price dumbass 23:56:10 once you have more attackers then they can't deanonymize the chain anymore 23:56:35 this fed attacker can collaborate 23:56:36 i guess you are the attacker who wants to keep spamming and you will go out of biz with higher fees 23:57:02 if chainanalysis for eg. do attack now then fed get interested may attack too with chainanalysis 23:57:13 we don't know and it doesn't matter anyway what matter is we get fcmp and seraphis soon 23:57:26 increase ringsize and counterspam = temporary shitty solution 23:57:33 increase fee = dumbasses from fed who want to capture xmr 23:57:41 and you want to keep fees low, so its easier to attack lol 23:57:51 increase ringsize 23:57:54 not fee 23:57:59 directly 23:58:11 fcmp and serpahis isnt coming till 2027 or maybe 2030 23:58:43 current approx 24 if we increase to 40 from 16 23:58:48 for decoys 23:59:09 to get back to 5 block needs to go to 2000+ in size which take long 23:59:21 to get back to 5 block needs to go to 1000+ in size which take long 23:59:32 you cant increase ringsize above a certain limit, its hard to verify txs; you can increase tx fees though and make it expensive to attack 23:59:38 increase fee is not solution it does nothing 23:59:54 40 can increase easily. we need to increase for seraphis anyway