00:05:11 gingeropolous: which ai bot do you use for coding? 00:18:57 im trying out gemini 00:52:26 Hello brothers. I am currently writing for a person why bitcoin is a shitcoin, why its controlled, and I wanted to ask for a few good resources and if i forgot anything, it has been quite the time since i was active in this area. 00:52:26 I started explaining blockchian and crypto, and then went about how bitcoin is public and because of chain analysis companies like ciphertrace and chianalysis, and lack Opsec when acquiring that you can be backtraced easily, that its not fungible because of tainted coins and wallets, and talked about 2 pools already making over 51% of the network, and the asic miner problem. What 00:52:27 else was there? anybody want to contribute nice links that explain it further that i could include? 01:03:26 There are so many arguments to win this one... You can also cite the minimum about of sats to not become dust that every year gets bigger :D 01:04:52 The moment you talk about unspendable utxos and utxo consolidation and all that shit, its the best face reaction possible, because they think youre talking in greek 01:11:13 I dont know what utxo consolidation is hehe D: and what do you mean min. sats to not become dust? 01:12:12 >min. about of sats 01:12:12 do you mean the amount of bitcoins until it reached the edge? 01:32:42 UTXO is the way bitcoin deals with the double spending problem. Its like the 'change' you get when you buy something. Your wallet balance actually is the sum of many 'unspent changes' you get from each block your transaction was made. When your transaction requires many 'changes' as input, the transaction fee increases. So this 'dust' thing is when the transaction fee is more expe 01:32:43 nsive than the value you have on that UTXO 01:33:53 To avoid this you need to consolidate the utxos, usually at times when transaction fees are cheap. (that will get harder everyday) 01:40:23 damn. First time i hear about that, probably because i mostly focused on xmr 01:40:30 thank u 01:55:15 guest13542367: Stop lying. And you wonder why ""trolls"" need to constantly be in this chat? Bitcoin misinformation is being spread everywhere in this criminal community 01:56:14 I can answer all your Bitcoin queries innocently. Message me privately though as you can not speak about any coin here except Moneroscam 01:56:23 I can answer all your Bitcoin queries honestly. Message me privately though as you can not speak about any coin here except Moneroscam 01:57:16 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/FQOlQcWtbNkRNuYHdZVftLtC 01:57:18 :) 01:58:28 I am not a glowie. Monero is a glowie coin. Bitcoin is pure, transparent, fair and everything cryptocurrency was meant to be - envisioned by the genius of Satoshi 01:59:13 rly cant tell if this is a joke or not. 01:59:40 Ask any question about Bitcoin or Monero and I can answer 02:01:12 okay. How is bitcoin decentralized when 2 pools alone make up more than 51% of the network, and f2pool for example having already censored transactions based on OFAC sanctioned adresses? 02:01:27 🙃 02:04:36 False. f2pool only rules 8% of the hashrate and you can switch pools to avoid malicious actors. 2 pools do not take up more than 51%. Stop spreading misinformation. The highest is BTC.com with 26% and this is a pool with decentralized miners. They do not own the ASIC miners mining. 02:04:37 Monero is worse than Bitcoin for mining and everyone here can agree with me. https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero biggest pool is 40%!!!!!! of hashrate. Worse than BTC by almost 2x. This is because Monero is mined mainly by criminal mining operations from botnets. One person controls these botnets and they use single pools because the Monero network takes one week to sync chain a 02:04:38 nd the criminals need to mine quickly from their victims 02:04:46 guest13532367: https://www.monero.how/why-monero-vs-bitcoin is a pretty levelheaded argument 02:04:48 satoshi wrote about using ring signatures shortly before he disappeared 02:04:52 he understood that btc was not complete 02:04:55 try not to come on too strong 02:05:13 bitcoin was ahead of its time, but it remains flawed 02:05:49 It mostly fails due to satoshi's absence. they lack leadership 02:06:47 No we work slowly and safely unlike Monero which is now rushing. Lots of development ideas are discussed but they will be implemented eventually when needed. Proof is taproot, coinjoin, lightning, etc. Bitcoin innovates when it's necessary 02:07:23 You have to move fast and break things. That's what satoshi did 02:07:26 https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/charts/pools f2pool only 8? and the highest is foundry USA with 28 02:07:39 confidential txs were invented by btc but never implemented 02:07:48 monero used them 02:07:51 Even if that's true Monero has one pool with 40%. What the fuck are you on? 02:07:55 bitcoiners these days will avoid hard forks at all cost. it's ridiculous. there is a massive campaign just to get OP_CAT enabled 02:08:08 satoshi wanted to use ring signatures but btc never used them 02:08:18 How about this: one company, antminer, produces the vast majority of bitcoin ASICs 02:08:27 Bitcoin was a proof of concept. People need to stop putting satoshi nakamoto on a pedestal, as if it was like a divine and enlighted person. He is just a fictional character made up to be an scapegoat 02:08:34 How about this: Monero uses CPU mining from two manufactures: AMD and Intel 02:08:38 if they backdoor their hardware or keep it to themselves they can take over the nextwork 02:08:51 If AMD or Intel backdoors (already have backdoor) they can take over the network 02:09:05 but why am I answering someone who doesn't want to discuss in good faith 02:09:30 CPU manufacturers cannot be so choosy. Also there is ARM, RISCV, PPC64 and other architectures. 02:09:59 if AMD and Intel abuse backdoors it will set the world on fire 02:09:59 And you don't have to mine with ASIC. Bitcoin can be mined with GPU. People can mine Bitcoin 02:10:05 >Bitcoin can be mined with GPU 02:10:06 hardly 02:10:15 And Monero is any better? 02:10:17 it can also be mined with CPU! 02:10:25 Botnets taken all the hashrate so you always lose money 02:10:32 Good 02:10:44 Not good because if botnet operator goes bad goodbye Monero network 02:11:02 mining should be unprofitable, it prevents miners from becoming too powerful of an entity 02:11:10 satoshi based everything on selfish mining, botnets are selfish \o/ 02:11:20 No one uses p2pool. Why? Monero mining is all criminal 02:11:34 in the current status quo, miners have all the power in bitcoin. it is a source of centralization because governments can mandate that miners only include approved transactions 02:11:39 it is an arm of soft power 02:11:45 that is easily abused 02:11:47 satoshi's greatest contribution was selfish mining 02:12:08 Monero is centralized. You have a Monero fund that is centralized and the repo is controlled by 2 people 02:12:20 which is why bitcoiners want to use them to support their own softforks like drivchain (bip300/301) 02:12:33 Cake Wallet has a backdoor that logs your information 02:12:44 why did adam back secretly meet with chinese bitcoin miners around the time of the XT fork? 02:12:50 Lol, I used to mine in 2009-2010 with dual hd4870 on crossfire and even back then it was sooo hard to mine with a gpu. This was pre-asic era. Now its virtually impossible 02:12:56 Yeah, you used to 02:13:05 there was a time when people used to mine with FPGAs 02:13:10 then ASICs 02:13:28 satoshi even asked miners not to use GPUs at one point as a "gentleman's agreement" 02:13:37 so coins would be distributed better 02:13:55 Fluffy stole all the emission 02:13:56 In the early days of Monero 02:14:03 He mined all the coins and dumps them 02:14:06 no that was Dave 02:14:27 there is tail emission now 02:14:47 Bitcoin will always win because of network effects. If Monero is ever a threat or is near overtaking Bitcoin, we can just fork and copy what Monero has. Bitcoin will always be #1 02:14:57 myspace \o/ 02:15:02 Bitcoin cannot function due to network effects 02:15:13 That's what you don't get being a midwit. Bitcoin can absorb any coins that threaten it 02:15:24 it literally cannot even compete with paypal 02:15:27 Cat says that it's time for bed 02:15:29 because of the block size 02:15:35 have a good night/day 02:15:37 Lightning 02:15:49 Lightning is cheaper and faster than Monero 02:15:51 don't waste too much time on the troll :D 02:16:00 it doesn't work like that 02:16:07 you still need to be able to close and open channels 02:16:08 Main net only has $0.90 fees right now. Moving $10 billion only costs $1 02:16:14 that takes L1 bandwidth 02:16:18 Main net only has $0.90 - $1.00 fees right now. Moving $10 billion only costs $1 02:16:31 can you also discuss without insulting? calling people midwit just makes you look like a midwit. 02:16:32 Try moving $10 billion on paypal 02:16:39 what happens if you can't pay the fees you close your channel, and everyone is trying to close their channel at once? 02:16:42 double spending 02:17:14 I only come here when someone is spreading lies about Bitcoin and guest13542367 is a liar. My tone is justified 02:17:17 Try moving $1 on bitcoin 02:17:26 lmao 02:17:47 imagine calling people with different opinions, lack of information or not, a liar is just retarded. U are the real troll 02:17:50 he is here to affect emotions so why wouldn't he call people midwits or whatever lol 02:18:09 Criminal 02:18:16 https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/ln-blackpill/ 02:18:17 haha 02:18:25 https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/lightning-limitations/ 02:18:34 imma coming Cat 02:18:36 this is from paul sztorc, who is a bitcoiner BTW 02:18:47 Yes lightning has limitations but Monero has more 02:18:53 it is literally impossible for LN to scale on bitcoin 02:19:07 also literally any cryptocurrency can implement payment channels 02:19:11 Monero has 0 scaling. The recent attack proved it. Your scaling solutions failed 02:19:15 well almost any cryptocurrency 02:19:49 Yeah monero scaling is currently bad I think 02:19:53 Bitcoin is better than Monero. That is all I'm arguing not that Bitcoin is better than every payment service 02:20:09 it should strive to be better than most payment services 02:20:11 chowbungaman: DMs between monero.social and matrix.org servers aren't working... 02:20:18 network effects 02:20:33 Recent 'attacks' didn't change a thing. Unlike ordinals that ramped up transaction fees up to 76 million sats/vb LOL 02:20:42 mordinals tho 02:20:43 Look at the price 02:21:00 How did it fail? It's chugging along fine still? 02:21:12 One design decision of monero I like is the lack of scripting 02:21:19 Monero users are losing confidence. This is much worse than higher fees on Bitcoin. Developers are leaving Monero and the price is dying 02:21:28 there should not be a way to use the blockchain to store arbitrary data 02:21:56 price drop is also hugely due to binance delist & leglistalure yes? 02:21:58 Thats over fifty thousand dollars to approve a transaction m8 02:21:59 which could impact any coin the same way we just got binked for obvious reasons 02:22:01 tx_extra on Monero? Monero had the same problem with mordinals 02:22:08 True 02:22:13 the real problem is not tx_extra 02:22:17 doesnt make it worse in that regard its kinda just like circumstances 02:22:20 if you remember that whole drama 02:22:35 but I suppose this will be fixed with FCMPs? 02:22:46 No the price dropped because Monero is not secure 02:23:00 elaborate? 02:23:00 FCMP implemented by 1 developer kayba. All the other developers left 02:23:16 I am studying cryptography now 02:23:22 maybe I will be a dev one day 02:23:27 people come and go 02:23:30 Read the Monero research meetings 02:23:57 link me smtn if u feel so inclined 02:24:11 Monero is not secure right now and for it to be secure it will either have to rush the implementation of shoddy crypto by kayba in a few months or you have to wait 5 years 02:24:41 Monero is still vulnerable to the black marble attack that happened. The attacker stopped but that doesn't mean it's safe 02:25:01 Where and how? 02:25:40 library genesis and google scholar 02:25:43 If you are smart enough you should come work on Bitcoin instead 02:26:09 Funny that such 'attacker' didn't prove anything to this so claimed vulnerability. Truth is monero took it like a champ 02:26:10 why would I work on bitcoin if I can't get any of my changes merged upstream 02:26:24 idk blackball attack is unknowable 02:26:30 <321bob321:monero.social> No shit talking allowed. #monero-offtopic 02:26:36 or what was it called? black marble? 02:26:46 Show me one single wallet that was cracked 02:26:48 but it is good to be suspicious 02:27:05 kjeks, I shouldn't need to 02:27:05 The attack reduced privacy so much that the effective ring signature size went from 16 to 5 02:27:24 the privacy is probabalistic by nature 02:27:35 Show me one wallet that was compromised by that 02:27:49 This only cost $10,000 buddy. It was nothing, probably fiatjaf from the Bitcoin community. If chainanalysis or a government attacked with more money Monero can be taken down for years 02:28:19 You don't think they are trying? LOL Look at the delistings 02:29:03 crypto is crypto 02:29:04 Good. Now people can buy a real coin instead of Monero 02:29:25 it is hard to delist monero because you still have crypto-to-crypto exchanges 02:29:40 The daily troll is back, getting feed plenty. Innocent neutrons getting scarified for no good reason. 02:29:59 but I guess not having direct dollar-to-monero exchanges is a fee/UX issue 02:30:19 Man if you think banks (government puppets) are on your side, either you're a bankster or politician or you are dumb 02:30:53 guest13542367: Started this by spreading lies about Bitcoin 02:31:30 i like to feed the trolls 02:31:36 and I think you mean electrons 02:31:53 Maybe hes not a troll, just trying to win an argument, but first he needs to learn to listen. 02:32:10 unless you're running your computer off of a nuclear reactor 02:32:11 Cant just act like a pidgeon messing the whole game 02:32:12 I am not a troll. I always come here to argue that's it. No trolling 02:32:26 I don't think he's a troll 02:32:37 maybe more of a gnoll or a kobold 02:33:01 So mate you need to start questioning your own arguments, because many of them are flawed. We just showed you that many times, just scroll up 02:33:06 BTCobold 02:33:13 that is a good IRC name 02:33:19 I need to sleep now, have fun guys 02:33:43 It's the same fool who got kicked yesterday, and a couple of times before under different pseudonyms. 02:33:48 I disproved all your arguments. No one from here mentioned mining again after I said Monero has 1 pool controlling 40% of hashrate 02:34:06 idc really 02:34:09 I even provided evidence 02:34:17 Unlike guest13542367 who is a liar 02:34:35 if there is a 51% attack I will spin up my PCs 02:34:36 Trasher go cry on Twitter with that other developer who is a fraud and liar and got banned 02:35:48 This chat so dead without discussion or arguments 02:36:21 why doesnt bitcoin have p2pool anymore 02:36:27 p2pool is cool 02:37:26 bitcoiner, don't you want to mine on your home computer again? doesn't that sound more fun? like the good old days of crypto? 02:41:06 I don't care. Mining happens with the price of Bitcoin. Price also protects the network. Price earns me money unlike mining 02:42:07 are you an ATC guy or like more of a swing trade kind of guy 02:42:24 DCA 02:42:25 sorry not ATC 02:42:35 I mean DCA 02:42:37 yeah that 02:42:43 Yeah I am more of a swing trader I don't really buy into all that 02:42:53 I have some BTC buyorders around 10-20k 02:43:01 Not happening 02:43:08 so if those end up going through I might use bitcoin 02:43:19 BTC is now protected by Blockrock and other ETF companies 02:43:30 blackrock? 02:44:17 BTC is now protected by Blackrock and other ETF companies 02:44:32 yeah IDK I think the whole stock-to-flow thing is a bunch of crap 02:44:41