00:17:17 basses:matrix.org: "please sign this petition" No. 00:17:48 321bob321:monero.social: Yes, the final countdown. 00:19:04 yasabi:matrix.org: "hm i'm being told CoCs are literally dictatorship and tyranny" Because they are. 00:19:32 Q: What is the difference between "tranny" and "tyranny"? A: "One letter." 00:40:50 You don't have to worry about CoCs as long as you're not an asshat 01:28:55 The problem is, what qualifies as an "asshat" on a given day? 01:29:57 I'd much rather say, as long as your opinions are in line with the status quo, you don't have to worry about CoC(k)s. 01:32:59 no one if holding you hostage in an online space. if you don't like the code of conduct for the space you can leave. if you were serious in your convictions, you could even open a competing space without a code of conduct! 01:34:27 having more channels for monero strengthens the overall community moreso than staying centralized in one channel. plus you could spam slurs to your tiny, shrivelled heart's content! 01:39:14 the thing about tyranny is it doesn't allow you to exit or opt out, more often than not it tries to kill you for doing so. but you'd probably know that if you had any experience with it beyond using the term hyperbolically to make yourself feel persecuted :^) 02:01:43 And it happens every single time that centrists and right leaning people tend to get targetted first, and the left cheers it on. Eventually it comes for the left, and all of the sudden the COCK censorship becomes a problem. 02:02:45 "the thing about tyranny is it doesn't allow you to exit or opt out, more often than not it tries to kill you for doing so." Let's compare: trannies will groom you into becoming one as well, or exclude you if you're lucky, or kill you if you're unlucky. 02:04:17 As stated earlier, the Monero community would be far better off just hosting their own Monero IRC server rather than just making a Channel as a Service. 02:52:54 tyrranical is perhaps an incorrect word to describe the system, but the correct word to describe the person who abuses authority under the pretense of "civility" 02:53:34 people are free to move to another forum or IRC server but there are moving costs and network effects associated with that 02:56:19 the type of person who can rise the ranks and secretly network on online forums to the point at which they can exercise bureaucratic power to influence public opinion is generally a "control freak" type: discord, reddit moderators for example 02:57:51 look at what happened with the BTC/BCH fork. small blockers were able to control and direct discussion, network with miners and the press, etc. They even bought out the bcash domains 03:04:48 People cannot really opt out of a chat group if the discussions that take place have an influence over them. Kicking people out of the town square is a big deal, but many do not realize that the modern town square (social media) has been privitized by special interest groups funded by advertising 03:18:00 The reason why the internet seems to be so divisive and hateful is because the compassionate half of society has checked out of the conversation and given up on free discussion. In the modern day the internet is used to cultivate "safe spaces", but it used to be that liberal types would do the opposite: use the internet to cultivate an "unsafe space" where norms could be challenged 03:19:24 It's childish to spam slurs online but it's even more childish to care 03:25:51 The reason why people dislike CoCs is because they are generally set a pretense for neurotic people to control discussion 03:30:46 i can start an IRC channel if users need a place to scream slurs into the void, but idk if that will be of any use 04:19:07 abusing authority, under pretense of civility or not, is still not tyranny. tyranny is an absolute power over subjects who have no say in the matter. no one is subjecting you to this chatroom. it's your choice to be here or to be elsewhere. to confuse this with absolutism, despotism, dictatorship, etc betrays either an enormously privileged naivete on your part, or a disingenu 04:19:08 ous motive in the discourse. 04:20:29 to claim the internet is divisive and hateful because "compassionate people" - whatever the hell that means - have "given up on free discourse" is asinine unless you believe conversations should be compulsory. free discourse is not owed, it is volunteered. if a conversation necessarily involves personal attacks, bigoted language, and brigading then some people will decide that t 04:20:29 hey'd prefer to dissociate than continue in that context. to say they are obligated to remain in the discourse is coercive. to say they have given up on free discourse is to assume this context is the only one that it is possible to freely consent to. 04:21:58 CoCs can be weaponized by control freak mods, yes. there are also plenty of control freak mods who operate in spaces without CoCs. one does not cause the other. even if it did is besides the point. Libera is a platform not owned by you or I. the people who do own and operate it do so under certain conditions. to continually violate those conditions puts the presence of this c 04:21:58 hannel at risk of being shut down by the platform owners. 04:29:54 remiliascarlet | As stated earlier, the Monero community would be far better off just hosting their own Monero IRC server rather than just making a Channel as a Service <- The things you're talking about overall are very exggerated, but this one I agree with. Centralization of projects on Libera bothers me. 04:31:09 it also just degrades the quality of conversation. the recent backscroll is overwhelmed with brigraders trying to harass the mods into reallowing someone who was removed for repeated bad faith engagement and hostility towards the people volunteering their time to this project. it's now escalating to spamming the CCS with bullshit about it. from a neutral perspective this is ind 04:31:10 istinguishable from a social engineering attack on Monero's communication channels. 04:40:52 I agree that it degrades the quality of communication 04:42:35 it is also important to be gracious with respect to moderation given that there is no sybil resistance to this network. some "good faith" is expected from both the users and the moderators 04:44:19 >Libera is a platform not owned by you or I. the people who do own and operate it do so under certain conditions. to continually violate those conditions puts the presence of this channel at risk of being shut down by the platform owners. 04:45:16 this kind of sidesteps a lot of the implicit assumptions being made. Is-ought problem 04:46:03 >conversations should be compulsory 04:46:17 some level of conversations, in normal society are compulsory 04:46:56 Every morning I walk past a preacher, I talk to someone while waiting on a bench or on the bus, etc. 04:47:33 and yet society remains civil. it is a sybil resistance problem 04:50:28 the internet as we know it generally does not have the ability to handle spam, so the ability to blacklist is handed off to powerful, centralized intermediaries (moderators, social media networks, etc) as opposed to operating everything on a whitelist basis which is more akin to how real-life conversations work. 04:50:32 secushare has a good rand about this 04:50:51 *rant 04:50:52 Monero Offtopic 04:50:56 ok sorry 05:36:26 <321bob321:monero.social> rip 06:15:31 morsche 06:20:27 gibt es deutsche chaträume für xmr? 06:46:41 berlin:hackliberty.org: ないかも 08:37:39 German rooms are dead 08:38:19 At least here on matrix 09:28:04 Ich kenne keinen 10:28:11 kenne nur den xmr channel in dieser bitcoin gruppe auf telegram https://t.me/trustbtcde 11:10:11 <321bob321:monero.social> Guten morgan 11:10:17 <321bob321:monero.social> Thats all i got 11:35:10 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> was ist das? Die Deutsche monero? 11:36:02 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> like 3 years? 11:36:07 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> =-= 11:38:03 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> do i like have to make a new wallet to make the sync faster? I did it before which was like 5~6 year old wallet? 11:40:21 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it says like 500 000 remaining blocks on all devices that i am trying to sync 11:40:40 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and it goes down very slowly 11:41:58 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> mby bcs the node is set to use tor proxy? 11:45:04 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> > monerod[852479]: 2024-04-09 10:54:17.477 W No incoming connections - check firewalls/routers allow port 18080 11:45:05 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> well it complains about this 11:46:24 * m-relay <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> has all firewall ports closed 11:49:34 not having incoming connections won't matter, all connections are 2 way 11:50:01 it notes which way the connection started 11:50:19 tor is s l o w 11:50:34 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> i see 11:51:02 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> syncing from a remote node seems to be significantly faster though 11:52:12 is the wallet on the same machine as your node? 11:54:28 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> no, the node is on a control server whcih provides an onion service that i am using from other device 11:54:59 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> (control server = highly power efficient server which is always on and used to manage power efficient tasks and send commands to other servers e.g. wakeup calls for compilation server) 11:56:37 obv something is restricting the speed of communication 11:57:00 sorry not something I can resolve 12:27:21 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> thanks for trying 12:43:25 Es gibt einen aktiven SimpleX Chat. Wenn du interessiert bist, kann ich dir gerne einen Link zukommen lassen :) 19:02:48 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so calculated.. it will take another 5 days for the wallet to sync with the node 19:04:09 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/gMtDpEqAtoiXgLfSxqSVmSiQ 19:35:24 best way to store seeds other than hardware wallets? 19:38:58 For often offline usage or for long term backup? 19:39:36 long term 19:39:53 would also be interested for the offline usuage 19:41:53 Long term storage : https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32951973665.html + Whatever leftover eprom / eeprom from scrap 19:41:53 offline usage : castrated phone (corrupted baseband firmware) + Anonero? 19:41:59 rando 19:44:12 For the eeprom thing, you can get the programmer alone if you can find big old chips that fit right in the thing (from ... 486 / pentium era motherboards) 19:44:13 For more recent eeproms, you need an adapter that fit the chip you are going to use 19:44:24 Hence the many many option in that aliexpress listing 19:45:39 Ideally you make a veracrypt image that fit the chip you get. if big enough you can backup seeds, pgp keys, password manager data files, etc, etc 19:50:55 <123bob123:matrix.org> Use floppy and use b side ;) 19:51:18 I think mutisig is a good way to go if you want more security 19:52:11 do like 2-of-3, and have one on your personal computer, one on an always-offline-computer, and one on a piece of paper 19:53:10 fk that 19:53:11 make a weirdos non standard format, like 3 sectors per track, 1 sector offets, no gaps (so you can stuff more), and use more tracks than normal (as much as you can with your hardware). Oh, don't even try to write the disk from a different drive after you did that, garanted self destruct of the data 19:55:04 is multisig similar to Shamir Secret Sharing? 19:56:07 Yeah, multisig is nice, can have many backups but you need X amount of backup to recover the data (so if one get one backup he won't get to steal the nero). 19:56:08 I think Featherwallet is going to support nice multisig soon™️ 19:56:53 something like https://github.com/Twometer/hyperbacked 19:58:15 there's also https://bs.parity.io/#/ if you want a web version 19:59:32 rando: yeah I think they use secret sharing in monero but I haven't read up on it 19:59:48 how do cryptocurrencies normally do it? scripting? 20:00:12 there is not really any scripting because it is a de-anonymization heuristic 20:00:54 I really love Shamir Secret Sharing (SSS) 20:05:11 we need to fund someone to add and audit the shamir for monero 20:20:18 <321bob321:monero.social> Thought i saw tob say something 20:28:53 when writing seed on paper make sure that it is written correctly 20:29:00 best way to verify is to actually recreate the wallet and to do so before sending xmr there 20:29:10 live and learn :D 21:18:19 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ok i can't even use any other monero node it all is in 500 000 blocks to sync and it takes ages wtf is happening 21:20:01 How are you syncing? 21:20:27 I did notice today tor was extremely slow for some reason. 21:20:50 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ok i can't even use any other monero node its all is in 500 000 blocks to sync and it takes ages wtf is happening 21:21:19 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> via tor 21:22:45 Syncing over tor is slow but it should still progress 21:24:10 Took me more than a minute earlier to day from 21:24:11 Press Send 21:24:12 And Send transaction confirmation 21:24:16 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 1.5 Mbps average DL / upload failed 21:24:26 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye it's really slow wtf 21:24:42 * m-relay <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> is usually in the 12mbps range 21:25:12 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and it's moslty in the 0.5 Mbps range 21:26:47 Yeah, I do notice when tor have hiccup when I look at my node data 21:29:54 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye it seems like someone figured out a way to efficiently attack the tor network 21:30:15 earlier today, tor RPC halved in like 10 minutes... sometime it recover then it tank back down 21:33:04 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> guess i am figuring out how I2P works so that i have a fallback network to use 21:33:08 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> bcs via tor today i would be syncing for around 5 days at best 21:34:37 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> wait that wouldn't work bcs i can't use tor node only via I2P right 21:34:49 niw I'm worried lol 21:35:12 now I'm worried lol 21:35:26 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/tghWCbDnVFsHhucjHkYhhQIH 21:36:24 Normally, it over "256" 21:36:25 That's one of the four node I have in my "reinforced node" 21:36:26 Normally, all four are +- at 256... 21:36:27 Since a week, none are at 256, and most of them over "128" 21:36:28 That image is from the worst one 21:36:47 Normally, it over "256" 21:36:47 That's one of the four node I have in my "reinforced node" 21:36:48 Normally, all four are +- at 256... 21:36:49 Since a week, none are at 256, and most of them hover "128" 21:36:50 That image is from the worst one 21:38:25 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> brutal 21:38:28 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> My tor can barely handle IRC connection atm 21:39:25 Good to know that I did not fsck something on my node end 21:39:26 Sad to know that tor is heavily under attack or something real fishy 21:39:31 But it' 21:39:47 it's been since over a week so far. Today was worst day I think 21:40:42 is I2P more sybil resistant? 21:40:50 I could never get I2P to work 21:41:00 Look what appening since april 21:41:05 Today got worst dip lol 21:41:09 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/NNMRFmvFofpnLontiUCYRlfE 21:41:15 what the tor DDoS? 21:41:28 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> lokinet is supposed to be sybil resistant 21:41:38 Yeah, got have something wrong, ddos or something 21:41:42 lokinet has some associated crypto though doesn't it? 21:41:55 I mean cryptocurrency 21:42:02 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> torproject doesn't seem to be aware about it either 21:42:17 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> yep they use monero fork OXEN to manage the sybil attacks 21:43:42 A week ago I did notice someting wrong in the atlantic routing or sometime (that did affect mostly tor because it "hop" all around and can cross the drink more than one time. 21:43:43 But connection between me and some location on the other side of the earth where heavily affected 21:43:48 I don't really trust cryptocurrency-as-sybil-resistance to network things 21:43:50 could be related or no 21:43:55 i just dont know how that works 21:44:13 <321bob321:monero.social> Didnt tor put 2x guards to stop spam 21:46:01 also there is a problem because cryptocurrencies have to sync data across the whole network, and that's not a desirable quality of computer networks that are divisible 21:46:07 sorry if this sounds dumb 21:47:11 and the problem with mixnets for messaging (e.g. tor, i2p) is that you need trustworthy proxies that don't log 21:48:12 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> tor ppl apparently think that it's a problem with tor guard and suggested to get a new one 21:48:20 so the user-proxy relation should be clearly defined somewhere, not just implicitly defined through some sybil-resistance mechanism 21:48:26 * m-relay <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> is trying to figure out how to do that now 21:50:13 PoW too 21:50:38 also a lot of these sort of cryptocurrency-incentivied mesh networks end up using trusted computing which breaks 21:50:41 <321bob321:monero.social> I thought it was beta 21:51:40 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> wiped state and it's better now around 5mbps 21:55:44 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ~500K -> 400K blocks already 21:57:07 <321bob321:monero.social> Your still syncing? 21:58:05 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> ye 22:00:29 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> syncing ~2000 per minute 22:03:30 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it's still slow af 22:06:57 https://7hs.com/s/vhq6pjor.pdf#subsection.8.3 22:07:00 this is weird 22:09:17 it is one of those systems where they just go "how do we trustlessly prove something occurs in real life? just make it proof of stake, stakers never lie, therefore it's solved!" 22:16:04 mempool did fill with a bunch of 146+/2 22:16:05 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/CWHGAikCftCbmfccDVWQhyPn 22:16:39 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/TtXghRRjXjQHJzFQJLwsbPsR 22:19:41 thats wierd 22:41:37 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 146+/2? 22:42:07 146/2 22:42:08 147/2 22:42:09 148/2 22:42:17 149/2 22:42:18 150/2 22:42:19 151/2 22:42:20 152/2.... 22:42:31 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> meaning 22:42:57 Not related to your problem 22:42:57 just big susy transaction with a lot of input 22:43:05 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> context? 22:44:06 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> hmm i see O.o 22:48:26 when did this start? 22:48:56 21:56 UTC 22:49:32 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/hUSEGnukPTgdXMacqSTPCxIE 22:53:00 these large input transactions show up from time to time, should be gone in a couple hours 23:10:20 Mempool spammed again 23:10:25 Who let ofrn out 23:13:40 Cheap spammer blocking legit txs keeping block size limited 23:14:14 Was this normal preflood? 23:14:48 Does not look like normal flood 23:14:49 Because if you where to flood, why would you destroy your ammunitions? 23:14:58 after a couple rounds they would run out of inputs 23:15:15 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> hmm 21:56 that's around when i got my wallet to try to sync 23:15:36 They are filling blocks for 0.025 xmr 23:16:01 Legit txs stay pending 23:16:14 Combine and spilt again ? 23:16:15 <5m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> that can't be my fault right 23:16:31 could be. 23:16:32 now we are just back to speculation 23:17:05 With monero it’s always speculation 23:17:10 I should make an IRC bot that just scans for anomalies in the mempool and blockchain 23:24:18 when some retard spam networks, that means it will take longer to sync blocks? 23:24:29 for wallets 23:24:35 ok, the high fee 146+/2 passed. 23:24:36 Now normal TX resume flowing, I think 23:24:48 only low fees 146+/2 left 23:24:52 80000*20/150 = 10k+ txs /4 = 2500 blocks 23:25:23 80k spam txs outputs for 20 days , 150 inputs for blocking txs 23:25:42 basses: fuller blocks -> longer verification time each block -> slower sync 23:26:17 All possible due to cheap gas 23:26:51 We don't have scam gas here! Only fees! 23:27:24 <321bob321:monero.social> Esg compliant 23:28:01 hmm 23:28:29 we are going to get another bunch of higher fee 146+/2 23:29:09 Binance can finally say network congestion 23:29:15 ~20 block of extreme constipation expected 23:29:16 Sad they don’t have it anymore lol 23:29:28 heu, 10, not 20, sorry 23:29:43 I expect a few days of constipation 23:30:03 I think the "network congestion" on binance and other exchanges just meant that they had to move funds from a cold wallet 23:30:10 probably involving mutlisig 23:30:40