00:34:41 i think i asked this in the past but forgot the answer. is the only privacy risk to using a remote node (rather than storing, the whole blockchain locally) that the remote node can log the ip of the transaction? 00:46:41 i understand side-channel attacks and opsec eg if someone from $city demands ransom using monero, connects to a remote node to receive it, then disconnects, then the remote node could just check all ips coming from $city to narrow down the suspect 01:03:44 i see something about remote nodes being able to reduce the privacy provided by ring signatures, but i don't know if that's still relevant 01:06:18 threat model: purchased monero from a kyc exchange in my real name. monero received by a local wallet with a remote node via tor (assume no traffic correlation attack risks). at a later time, that monero is sent to an adversary which is able to collude with the kyc exchange 01:07:47 so the thing i am wondering is what the adversary can conclude assuming they control/monitor the kyc exchange, the remote node, and the entity that i send the monero to 01:12:12 Is there a guide on litecoin swapping at all? 02:04:44 Monero Outreach LNC 2024 & Enemies of The State D.C. w/ centraljerseyLP, Freenauts! Join us TMRW morning at (5/11) 11AM-EDT/4PM-CET! + Price 📈, News 🗞& More! 02:04:45 JOIN US ON STAGE HERE ➡️: streamyard.com/92pphyi7yt 02:04:47 WATCH THE SHOW HERE via YOUTUBE ➡️: https://www.youtube.com/live/Va7MF2fvxIo?si=ogJWADdvZraZ5KOx 02:04:49 WATCH THE SHOW LIVE HERE via TWITCH ➡️: https://www.twitch.tv/monerotalk 02:04:51 (The videos will be synced onto Odysee (https://odysee.com/@MoneroTalk:8) about an 1/2 hour or so after it premieres LIVE for those who want to watch there afterwards ;)) 02:04:53 FOLLOW US ON https://monero.town/u/monerotopia & https://mastodon.social/@monerotopia 02:04:55 Guest segment & Report sponsored by 🍰 u/cakelabs & u/LocalMoneroCo" 02:05:03 is this spam? 02:25:17 ✅got some clone 💳cards🏧 and fake bank notes 💷 AAA+grade💯🇬🇧 available 📩 02:27:47 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mBwOyoKSAlUWhCqDIzEHKntq 02:28:11 wow this place is just spam central 02:29:21 Moooods! xmrscott endor00 charuto 02:49:51 what u say mate 02:50:05 English? 03:03:42 Banhammer we need some ban hammeriong right now 03:18:41 Yo what countries... 03:19:52 This is fine, just don't say anything mildly based or the Banhammer will get you 03:20:06 Dm me 03:20:49 Yo i can't 03:20:51 Dm me instead 03:20:53 Anyways do u got Chile cards 03:20:55 That are ready 2 cashout.. 03:41:26 Hey man we don't need pounds we already have the kilogram 04:12:12 Reports say Localcoinswap works. 04:12:13 What have you used in the past? 04:14:28 Did a long time ago 04:23:52 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Thats a relay server 04:24:05 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Not the main server 04:40:32 anyone wanna help me in connecting my node to tor ? 04:50:42 sure 04:51:24 you just gotta set the hidden service dir for the keys/hostname and then the port i'd assuming 04:51:29 ive done it before 04:52:55 i am using fedora 04:53:07 i install tor from project 04:53:30 i am not sure whether instructions there are upto date or not 04:55:19 do i need to change the se linux to permissive 04:55:24 have you checked this? 04:55:32 https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/tor_wallet.html 04:55:49 yeah i was reading this 04:56:08 but with this command `sudo systemctl restart tor@default` i get an error 04:56:13 i've never used SELinux so i cant help you with that 04:56:24 but with this command `sudo systemctl restart tor@default` i get an error 04:56:25 yes the tor systemd service is weird 04:56:49 try just doing `sudo tor` 04:57:07 if you have already setup the torrc file 04:58:58 yeah i put the 2 lines in the config file 04:59:19 then ran this in sudo 04:59:37 but still i get error 05:00:32 ` job for tor⊙ds failed because the control process exited with eror code.` 05:00:56 what is the output of `sudo systemctl status tor⊙ds` 05:02:26 ` failed to start tor⊙ds -Anonymizing overlay network for tcp.` 05:02:36 any error messages? 05:03:10 what happens when you do `sudo tor` 05:03:51 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/oSOWxfXzsNIXSVgQHtJhiTTO 05:04:20 ok service is configured good from what it looks like 05:04:31 theres the stupid restart limit thing in systemd thats causing the error 05:04:42 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/rePjCirDVkEABGwWeGoHKQXc 05:04:44 ok systemd service is configured good from what it looks like 05:04:51 ohh i see 05:05:28 also maybe try `sudo pkill tor` 05:05:34 and then wait for the service to restart 05:05:45 the output of `sudo tor` says that tor is already running 05:07:03 same error as this 05:07:23 is there anything alse i should do in the config file 05:07:41 not really if you followed the guide exactly 05:07:56 tor is supposed to run as a seperate user in debian 05:08:04 maybe its the same for fedora 05:08:08 ok 05:08:12 which user 05:08:25 is there a user that has 'tor' in it 05:08:32 on my server it's called `debian-tor` 05:08:54 toranon 05:09:17 ok so the systemd service will run it through that user 05:09:20 so we want that 05:09:28 if you try running it normally what happens? 05:09:31 how do i change to that user 05:09:41 the systemd service will do it for you 05:09:58 without sudo ? 05:10:08 with sudo 05:10:54 same error 05:11:24 ran ` sudo systemctl restart tor@default 05:12:36 can you do `sudo journalctl -xeu tor@default` to see the full log 05:12:43 and see if there is anything interesting in there 05:14:29 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/UMEWyRNxsRRssFXKSOgmDCFP 05:14:57 try scrolling up 05:15:09 with the arrow keys, there may be something interesting 05:15:15 i scrolled up 05:15:24 or check `/var/log/tor/notices.log` 05:16:11 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/hRdQBOsjGbjygqqqdGKGiclI 05:16:28 ok that is an issue 05:16:51 this is stock installation, correct? 05:17:01 yeah 05:19:01 ok so it cant find the default config 05:19:07 how do i solve this 😅 05:19:25 for me it is at `/usr/share/tor/tor-service-defaults-torrc` 05:20:00 ls -l the file to make sure its there 05:20:08 yeah 05:20:13 Also hello, hooray for helping others! 05:21:05 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/pmBOAPIalGilaEmJfJawpsnL 05:21:56 Ah so you are on a Debian based box 05:22:07 no they are on fedora 05:22:14 fedora 05:22:17 Oh interesting 05:22:34 its trying to read 2 default config fiels for some reason 05:22:52 Can you ls -l /etc/tor/torrc for me? 05:22:58 I could be wrong 05:23:21 There very well may be two 05:23:33 Mine had two 05:24:13 er wait yeah 05:24:18 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/xTCPknCVxpNBGKjrsDLXtQuB 05:24:26 Bingo 05:24:32 i think its there 05:24:38 theres a torrc at `/etc/tor/torrc` and `/etc/torrc` 05:24:41 That's the main config file 05:24:45 i did not know that 05:24:49 i see 05:24:58 All good! 05:25:11 So one sec, let me focus on the main error again 05:26:15 Yeah try restarting the service now. Might need another adjustment but perhaps that's enough according to these docs 05:26:17 https://community.torproject.org/relay/setup/bridge/fedora/ 05:28:14 should i replace the config file according to this guide 05:28:36 i dont think so, the guide is talking about setting up a bridge 05:28:40 sudo systemctl restart tor.service ? 05:28:41 not a hidden service 05:28:47 i see 05:28:49 sure 05:28:59 tor.service and tor⊙ds are different things too 05:29:04 i just installed tor 05:29:20 tor⊙ds represents your hidden service 05:29:23 I think the bridge is old terminology? Anyways 05:29:38 The main error seems to want a defaults.torrc right? 05:29:48 ` systemctl enable --now tor` 05:29:56 Yeah do thst for sure 05:29:58 yeah 05:31:06 You could do ln -s /etc/tor/torrc /etc/for/default.torrc 05:31:20 That makes a link 05:31:33 So if it reaches for either one youre set 05:32:51 You could do ln -s /etc/tor/torrc /etc/tor/default.torrc 05:33:02 Damn autocorrect wrote 'for' in the second path 05:33:08 Auto incorrect 05:34:24 symlink is created 05:34:39 but tried restarting the service and getting same error as earlier 05:34:41 Kk make sure my silly autocorrect doesn't screw you over 05:34:49 Make sure its tor not for 05:34:53 haha yeah i got that 05:35:06 Alright let er rip and let's we what we've won 05:35:27 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/FMgOtSLfCXqPhQhZJkKccXig 05:36:07 Kk so we need service log output 05:36:36 Fire off 05:36:37 journalctl --unit=tor 05:37:23 You can also let the log flow freely in another window with 05:37:25 journalctl -f --unit=tor 05:37:40 Makes it easier on me when I need to restart it a bunch 05:38:10 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/jlCeBeVEcFhoYVjgnJSOheFK 05:38:23 Yoooooooooooo 05:38:35 She lives 05:38:48 Now you just let her work 05:39:08 ok 05:39:13 now next 05:39:29 nice! 05:39:33 Uh oh what's next 05:39:45 Cobras? 05:40:25 so tor is running correctly ? 05:40:30 yes 05:40:34 Looks happy to me 05:40:56 Whole bunch of "connected" words in the status output 05:41:03 Green status font 05:41:05 mine looks the same 05:41:17 Excellent 05:41:28 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/envs.net/9fb8145fad4a67c4d5af8032955a488e879042f11789168923745189888 05:41:32 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/poddery.com/nZKTUEBHSaTpjxhuxmTYPSJc 05:41:47 Ah yes 05:41:49 oh yeah that 05:41:51 you need to generate the keys 05:41:53 for the service 05:41:57 idk how to do that 05:42:00 i cracked mine 05:42:05 Does it automatically 05:42:30 Mental Outlaw does a great tutorial for this actually 05:42:44 If you dont mind watching his stuff 05:43:37 If I recall, for me it was a simple as adding a new line to /etc/tor/torrc 05:43:53 Tor detected the line, found no existing config, made one 05:44:57 And the only trick is making sure it talks to your node by setting your firewall, node, and tor hidden service up to use the same port and IP address. Highly recommend 127.0.0.1 so your node only ever talks to Tor 05:45:46 And the only trick is making sure it talks to your node by setting your firewall, node, and tor hidden service up to use the same port and IP address for their unique parts of the common purpose. Highly recommend 127.0.0.1 so your node only ever talks to Tor 05:45:47 ot it got it 05:45:54 yeah i think i didn't out it in this config 05:46:07 i had put it in torsocks.conf 05:46:26 Oh via the proxy eh. I haven't tried that yet 05:46:44 so i don't need to bother about the output systemctl status tor@default 05:46:55 i just ran systemctl restart tor 05:47:01 Not if you saw a green tor service running 05:47:10 i get the onion hostname now 05:47:19 Yeah that's different on certain systems for whatever reason 05:48:12 What do you see when you run 05:48:13 netstat -tulpn | grep -e 18081 -e 18080 05:49:04 With that we'll check the ports are open where expected 05:50:27 do i need to put a password compulsorily? 05:50:43 and i need to generate the password hash for the config file ? 05:51:24 Oh a tor service password? Its not strictly required 05:51:54 You could though. I dont know the process as I haven't tried that myself 05:52:32 i see thanks 05:53:41 Glad I could help! 05:55:19 so i should be able to connect through tor now ? 05:55:57 Well, tor will open the connection 05:56:03 the onion address should remain rhe same right 05:56:39 As long as your firewall and monerod are configured correctly you should be able to talk to your node yup. It can be flaky sometimes though so you might have to retry a bunch 05:57:09 this didn't give an output 05:57:16 Only changes if you mess with the folder. It uses the key inside the folder as your hostname and to identify itself 05:57:21 but did open 18081 and 18089 ports 05:57:34 Probably missing the tool. That's not out of the ordinary 05:57:56 You can run 05:57:57 sudo dnf install netstat 05:58:04 Should pull it down 05:58:20 18089 or 18080 06:02:59 i get an error in wallet "socks connection refused" 06:03:44 Hmm yeah netstat will help you ensure the right port has tor listening 06:04:06 I can't help much with socks at the moment since I haven't used it 06:04:07 unable to find a match: netstat 06:04:20 Yup try the command j mentioned 06:04:27 One sec I'll link it 06:04:37 Here 06:04:50 Or did you not find an install matchM 06:04:56 netstat is installed i guess 06:04:58 Or did you not find an install match? 06:05:27 Maybe I'm using the wrong name for the package that includes netstat 06:05:47 Oh shit this is where Fedora slaps 06:05:58 Run 06:05:59 dnf whatprovides netstat 06:06:11 One of the comfiest tools it has lol 06:06:23 i think its listening at 18089 06:06:32 It'll actually look netstat up and tell you what package to install 06:06:46 Kk then keep trying your onion service 06:07:08 ohh i forgot enter the port after the onion address 06:07:27 That'll do it 06:07:46 Jibbityjabbity.onion:18089 06:08:01 yay ! it connects now!! 😃 06:08:11 Booooooooooooooo yah 06:08:21 thanks bruh 🙏 06:08:50 pretty much hijacked this chat for one issue 😂 06:08:56 Glad I could help! 06:08:58 Lmfao 06:09:16 Yeah you can DM me next time if you like 06:10:46 sure 🤟 06:11:31 🤙 06:52:20 one more quick question, does my node now connects to peer nodes also on tor ? 06:52:52 or it still connects to peers only over clearnet 06:55:27 should i add my tor node to monero.fail ? 06:57:54 You can only add monero nodes there 06:58:23 If you have an .onion link to your monero node, then yea I recommend making sure it's listed there 06:58:34 i understand, i said in context of monero 06:58:51 just submitted!! 07:00:01 can i make a custom name for my tor node url address 07:00:10 I know selsta needs reliable onion nodes as well 07:00:17 To help folks sync over tor I believe 07:00:45 Yeah theres a guide somewhere online iirc 07:00:48 so will my node automatically find peers over tor ? 07:01:03 or it will connect to clearnet nodes too 07:02:05 Depends on how you configure tor. I think by default unless you restrict the p2p port to 127.0.0.1 local address, then it searches the clesrnet 07:02:38 I dont really care if I relay node traffic in the clear since that's not my threat model 07:03:05 RPC over onion via 127.0.0.1, with username and password 07:03:11 And I just save my onion address 07:03:13 i will run `peers` in my monerod terminal 07:03:19 I dont wanna be noticed except for 020 07:03:25 *p2p 07:06:51 ` print_cn` gives only ipv4 clearnet hosts 🤔 07:08:14 ` print_cn` gives only ipv4 out clearnet hosts 🤔 07:08:55 Yes, that's p2p 07:09:12 You have 18081 and 18089 on tor yes? 07:09:25 P2p is 18080 iirc 07:10:09 So you have the end that people normally stick in the clearnet in the clearnet 07:10:26 i am using --restricted-bind-port=18089 right now 07:11:07 Ah okay so you should ensure your monerod daemon is only listening on 127.0.0.1 for p2p if you only wanna sync over tor 07:11:09 i am using --rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089 right now 07:11:39 --rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0 07:11:47 Yeah that's all interfaces 07:11:52 ohh 07:11:54 Which means it talks to your router 07:12:09 so i should not bind over all interfaces ? 07:12:15 You want to only talk to your router through tor 07:12:25 Right 07:12:44 ok 07:12:52 You only want tor to talk to stuff locally 07:12:59 Before it sends it out 07:13:21 is there any need for --p2p-bind-ip 07:13:46 That should be the parameter that sets your p2p address. 07:14:00 To be safe perhaps set that to 127.0.0.1 too 07:14:47 But tbh unless the feds are going to drag you to a blacksite for sending monero sync data I think it might not be worth the extra effort 07:15:34 lets try it 07:15:47 Haha sure, why not is a valid path as well 07:16:02 i am okay if clearnet and tor peers are both connected 07:16:03 Fuggit, yeehaw, etc 07:16:11 Chad moves 07:19:44 still ipv4 07:20:30 Oh shit my bad 07:20:39 Youre tryna go ipv6 yeah? 07:21:05 Here I was going on about subnets lmao 07:21:22 I'm not much good with ipv6. We dont get much up here in syrupland 07:23:06 no , for tor nodes 07:24:33 You dont want ipv4? Am I misunderstanding? 07:25:47 1 07:26:14 i want tor peers in addition to ipv4 if thats possible 07:26:39 i think i am missing some monerod option 07:28:51 should i keep --no-zmq ? 07:49:34 anywhere to download a (more or less recent) pruned blockchain directly over http? monerod over tor seems slower than wget 07:53:07 it will take more than a week to download at this rate, but i know with my internet i can download 100gb in only 2 days even over tor... 07:53:45 nah unfortunately its pretty slow and outdated from monero website 07:53:59 wdym? 07:54:41 i'd just like a download for a (pruned) blockchain that i can then sync more quickly 07:54:52 only source for downloading the blockchain over http is getmonero.org. And afaik it's rate-limited, you can bypass that of course by using download manager like aria2 but gl with corruption 07:55:10 There is no http source for pruned blockchain afaik 07:55:27 oh i see, how rate limited is it? 07:55:52 using tor, i can just have two or three wgets downloading different ranges 07:55:56 idr but so slow that I preferred to sync it myself 07:56:34 for some reason even when running with tor (via torsocks), it is spamming my firewall with blocking outgoing attempts to port 53 07:57:32 Hi all) 07:58:02 jesus it really is spamming my syslog HARD with outgoing dns attempts 07:58:24 did i misconfigure it? "DNS_PUBLIC=tcp torsocks -i monerod --p2p-bind-ip 127.0.0.1 --no-igd --prune-blockchain --sync-pruned-blocks --rpc-bind-ip 127.0.0.1" 07:58:35 Hi evilalbantrader 07:58:58 I don't think you did 07:59:11 wait 07:59:14 don't do that 07:59:19 ? 07:59:39 Do not pass monerod through torsocks. Monerod do not support downloading the blockchain over Tor 07:59:55 well it's doing it, it's just very slow 08:00:05 and that's what was on the monerod github 08:00:10 Yes because other nodes are connecting to an exit tor relay 08:00:19 Can you give me the link 08:00:27 because it's spamming dns request, would "--disable-dns-checkpoints" be helpful? and sure 08:00:37 https://github.com/monero-project/monero?tab=readme-ov-file#using-tor 08:00:43 actually https://github.com/monero-project/monero?tab=readme-ov-file#using-tor-on-tails 08:00:54 no wait the first one was correct lol 08:02:22 ok nvm I didn't knew it was possible. I remember an issue on stack overflow stating it discouraged 08:02:54 would "--disable-dns-checkpoints" prevent it from constantly trying (and failing) to connect to dns? 08:03:33 "W WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received" appears every time which i assume is due to it trying to connect to dns without tor for some reason 08:03:47 I don't know. You can try 08:05:29 no luck 08:20:00 --proxy fixed it, no need for torsocks 08:20:09 and holy wow now i know why it's slow. i'm i/o limited 08:20:33 my internet isn't even fast, so i thought a usb 2.0 flash drive would be enough 08:24:02 estimated 40 dAys now// 08:24:02 ?? 08:27:49 maybe "--db-sync-mode fastest:async:250000000bytes" would help? 08:30:08 does it have to reread the entire database for every single downloaded block? 08:34:22 no 08:34:30 but fast random access helps a lot 08:34:33 usb 2.0 is not fast 08:34:41 you need an SSD 08:34:52 using a usb flash drive 08:35:03 it's faster than my internet so i thought it would be enough for an initial sync 08:35:54 "faster" how? 08:36:03 maybe it's fast when you copy one big file 08:36:08 this is not how Monero syncs 08:36:20 you need fast random access 08:36:57 i thought an initial sync would just be downloading the entire thing 08:39:32 It is downloading _and_ verifying 08:39:41 verification is the heavy part 08:40:00 each block can't be verified individually? 08:41:02 i'm at 1% sync right now and it's slowing down significantly. will it be much slower when i am all the way up to 50%? 08:41:46 damn this is bad. i need to have this ready within a week, and it's saying it'll take me over a month just to sync 08:42:36 is there any way to just download the whole thing (which would take about 2 days with my internet) and then verify it after? 08:44:55 sech1: something must be wrong. judging by its estimate and the speed of my usb drive, the ~50gb pruned block chain will require 40 *terabytes* of i/o 08:45:38 Don't just multiply speed of your usb drive by the number of seconds 08:45:54 If it says 10 MB/s, it probably 1 KB/s at best when doing random accesses 08:46:04 it's an ssd 08:46:26 it can do nearly 100mbit/s random access when i put it in the 3.0 slot 08:46:31 You said usb 2.0 flash drive 08:46:35 it's not an ssd 08:46:42 it's mlc flash 08:46:43 it's a flash drive 08:46:55 they have shit controllers compared to an ssd 08:46:58 flash drive is a type of ssd it's just not a high performance internal one 08:47:04 i just mean it's not rotating disk 08:47:15 yes, and now you see how much it is "not a high performance" 08:47:34 what kind of i/o is required for downloading and syncing the blockchain initially? 08:47:52 a lot of random reads, not so many writes 08:48:19 it seems right now it's a lot of writes because if i run "sync" it hangs for ~5 minutes, so there are a lot of dirty buffers it's trying to flush 08:50:23 is there any way to optimize this, like downloading a pre-pruned and pre-synced blockchain? (and then manually syncing only the last ~month worth of transactions)? 08:53:15 sech1: according to iotop it's about 1.5 MB/s write and 50 kB/s read 08:53:44 current eta is 2.4 months 08:54:11 hey @sech1 , can my monerod connect to peers on tor ? 08:54:13 how can i configure it ? 08:54:15 i must be doing something wrong. even with a slow flash drive, that's so much writes that i wouldn't be surprised if the drive died by then 08:55:08 i can't use a remote wallet because apparently that defeats or reduces the decoy addresses/ring signatures or whatever, which harms privacy 08:55:12 you can trust sech1 on this. And I even confirm. This is unfeasible to sync monerod on an USB flash drive 08:55:32 damn 08:55:39 i have nothing else (except internal spinning rust) 08:55:45 the USB controllers are optimized for sequential writes and lightweight load. Worst case scenario for LMDB which require random access 08:55:53 Best you can do is to sync to an internal SSD and then copy the lmdb files 08:56:25 only internal ssd i have is 2010 era 16gb caching ssd 08:56:42 how bad are using remote nodes for privacy then? 08:56:44 16GB caching? 08:56:54 why do you want download the blockchain over tor 08:57:17 downloading it over tor isn't the issue, it would only take about 1-2 days to download it. apparently i/o is the issue 08:57:41 Remote nodes only know that their connected ips have sent a transaction. So if you choose a reputable remote node and set it to untrusted + you don't care about them knowing you send a transaction its not an issue 08:58:02 but don't remote nodes reduce the number of decoys? something like that? 08:58:22 no 08:58:25 no 08:58:46 threat model: purchased monero from a kyc exchange in my real name. monero received by a local wallet with a remote node via tor (assume no traffic correlation attack risks). at a later time, that monero is sent to an adversarial entity which is able to collude with the kyc exchange 08:58:48 Maybe you're confused with the Black marble flooding discussion on Reddit ? 08:59:09 no i haven't seen that discussion, what i've seen came from localmonero, some monero website, and several stack exchange post 08:59:20 having your node synced through tor won't help you on this 08:59:45 https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/ihokz1/remote_node_a_real_and_serious_threat/ 08:59:49 >Some other less significant but still also worth mentioned compromises with public remote nodes: the pool of decoys is smaller, 09:00:35 https://monero.stackexchange.com/questions/38/what-privacy-or-security-trade-offs-are-associated-with-not-running-your-own-ful 09:00:39 >Thus, the node will know which output in a ring signature is the real one once you send the transaction: it's the one it did not supply. 09:00:42 that's what i was reading 09:00:45 > s instead of your wallet selecting from the entirety of the blockchain, you only select outputs from the those the remote node gives you to select from 09:00:47 This imply the node is malicious 09:01:04 Yes this is real, but that means the node is malicious 09:01:31 which i would like to avoid 09:01:57 it makes it seem like the privacy of using a remote node (even without it knowing the ip) is significantly less 09:02:38 There are no perfect solution. Just stick to node trusted by the community like Rino and Cake Wallet 09:03:12 what about in that stack exchange post, it says "This is now done: the wallet selects the outputs it wants, so the daemon only knows that one of them is the real one, but not which, which is the same as any blockchain observer can know." 09:04:11 hey Ruckniumis there a way to automatically fuzz public nodes in order to see if they are messing with the decoy selection ? Like asking the call thousands of times and inspecting its distribution, so that whenever a node is out of the average/planned distribution we know its messing with decoy selection 09:04:50 oh well sry for ping then 09:05:11 ? 09:05:26 (i didn't see anyone reply) 09:05:30 nah I pinged Rucknium with a question but your quote from stack exchange make this question usless 09:05:38 oh 09:06:13 am i right to say that "this is now done" is referring to the wallet choosing the decoys, not the remote node (as a form of mitigation)? 09:06:21 last time I asked I was told that the wallet did the decoy selection 09:06:45 and that applies to popular wallets like feather? 09:06:50 so original statement. If you don't care about the node knowing you sent a transaction you're good 09:07:03 Any wallet yes 09:08:29 oh good! so the privacy for a remote node, even if the remote node, the kyc exchange i purchase from, and the entity i send coins to all collude, i still have identical privacy as if i ran my own node? (assuming hand waving away theoretical weaknesses in tor or traffic correlatio)? 09:14:03 can i just use monero-client-cli to connect to a remote node or is it better to use something like feather wallet? 09:20:53 syntheticbird: i'm confused because that stack post linked to a commit https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/bitmonero/commit/30203f11f1581deec214e5a45ead36ac35c3a316 which is in something called "bitmonero" and not the actual monero client? 09:31:09 hold on 09:31:26 I had to take a coffee 09:32:33 that's because in 2016 it was colled bitmonero not monero. 09:32:39 called* 09:32:55 oh lol 09:33:26 but anyway I think it unrelated because you have linked critics about remote node diminishing decoy pool in 2020 and its a commit from 2016 09:33:37 oh hmmm 09:34:52 Afaik the only issue with remote node is that they know the timestamp at which you send a transaction, because they are the first one to relay it. And, if malicious, they can mess up the output distribution to make you take more of a particular output 09:35:09 what does "take more of a particular output" mean? 09:36:27 before RingCT, output did gave amount in clear, even today transactions are building rings on top of preRCT and postRCT outputs, which I don't remember how but anyway your wallet call the node to know the distribution of each amount 09:36:58 and then the decoy selection algorithm pick up outputs based on that distribution 09:37:17 Honestly there is more but if you are really worry about your threat model you should look at "Breaking into monero" 09:37:30 it's on youtube and also podcast, I've heard lot of good things about it 09:37:48 but all of that requires the remote node being actively malicious, right? 09:38:02 Exactly. That's the whole point. 09:38:49 As long as you choose node you trust, that you enable SSL or use Tor, it's perfectly okay 09:38:59 https://docs.featherwallet.org/guides/nodes 09:39:00 >execute an attack that may reveal the true input of a transaction. This attack does not reveal how much is spent or to whom. This attack has a low chance of succeeding and Feather will warn you if it detects this attack. 09:39:04 interesting 09:39:35 s​yntheticbird: "or use tor" but tor won't prevent a node from performing any attacks, it just will prevent it from knowing whether you're a target worth attacking i assume 09:40:15 SSL and Tor is used to mitigate MITM attack between you and the node. That's why I said first "Choose node you trust" 09:40:52 ah right 09:41:49 then lastly, is there any wallet that you'd recommend? i'm familiar vaguely with electrum for bitcoin so i suppose feather wallet for monero is good? 09:44:03 Feather wallet is a reputable wallet indeed. Tho the UX of monero wallets are different from electrum. Your wallet will need time to sync all the outputs that have been sent/used in the blockchain since last time you closed your wallet. So it's not instant synced like electrum. 09:44:14 There is also Cake Wallet for mobile 09:44:34 The Monero GUI for desktop is also very good 09:45:04 honestly i don't plan on saving lots of money so i think each wallet i use will be single-use, so once i use it i can just get rid of it 09:45:56 That's a reasonable way of using Monero 09:46:16 i prefer it to the mentality of "too the moon" haha 09:46:46 ✨ We love money ✨ 09:54:53 can someone who has installed it before confirm that "8185 E158 A333 30C7 FD61 BC0D 1F76 E155 CEFB A71C" is the correct fingerprint for feather wallet public key? 09:55:52 just wanna do my due dilligance :p 10:07:00 when are rings going from 16 to 10:07:06 the new number 10:14:29 ilove9999wdym? 10:17:50 I think he means this: https://www.getmonero.org/2024/04/27/fcmps.html 10:19:16 oh 10:21:05 ilove9999There are no new number for next hard fork as Monero is transitioning to FCMP w Seraphis or FCMP++. This is a new paradigm where every output of the chain is a possible output in the transaction. Maybe you were also referring to the Grootle proof proposal which would have pushed rings up to 128. 11:18:32 Before 2026 11:20:14 let's make a trolling campaign for releasing FCMP at the same time CBDC is released 11:20:43 by releasing* 11:57:19 https://docs.featherwallet.org/guides/nodes 12:24:45 He linked to it earlier in the discussion 15:06:12 there may be a hard fork between now and deploying FCMP++, which may increase the ring size. 15:41:56 a​aabbb: I can confirm that that is the correct fingerprint for the Feather release signing PGP key, and has been since at least December 2021. 16:31:38 They can also provide you bad decoys 🤔 16:39:21 Is it known how much tps Monero could potentially handle on a modern cpu? 16:40:59 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> yep check benchmarks on xmrig 16:43:54 They are regarding hashing for mining, which isn't the same as handling a Monero fullnode right? 16:44:46 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> 🤔 16:44:51 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> dunno about hashing 16:47:33 Xmrig benchmarks are about the performance for RandomX for cpus, which isn't the same as running a Monero Node verifying the Blockchain. 16:49:52 tigerix there are only estimate but no real testing has been done 16:50:13 there is much room for optimization for one, right now most of what is done is not multithreaded 16:50:32 Xmrig benchmarks are about the performance for RandomX mining on cpus, which isn't the same as running a Monero Node verifying the Blockchain. 16:50:34 Is buying second hand computers with cash and then using them to mine monero a good way of laundering money 16:51:02 Does it make sense to mine Monero using your GPU+CPU or is it only really a CPU thing 16:52:02 just CPU and even then if paying for electricity it will take a long time to get your cost back 16:52:23 at some elec prices you will actuall lose $$ 16:52:33 just buy monero 16:53:14 Octopus have an API for their electric prices - it would be possible to have a rig programmed to only mine at certain prices when it makes money 16:54:37 * nioCat wonders when matrix dot org accounts will see responses :D 17:09:56 * vthor wonders why people use matrix :D 17:14:43 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> because IRC is piece of shit ware 17:15:05 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> so is matrix.org homeserver none should be using that 17:16:08 @niocat Do you have an estimate? 17:17:15 no but I don't think that there are any really good estimates 17:17:41 Yes but I don't pay for electricity 17:18:06 again any estimates are purely theoretical 17:18:32 then you find bottlenecks that you didn't expect 17:18:58 when actually using at high throughput 17:19:58 people have tried to use testnet to see but I don't know the numbers and even those turned out not to really stress test as if it was main net 17:20:53 armpits1 there are mining calculators where you can figure out how much monero you can mine based upon your hashrate 17:21:15 this ofc assumes that the network hashrate remains as it is today 17:24:15 tigerix sorry that I can't give you a clearer picture, maybe others can chime in 17:25:54 again whatever the current tps is there is much optimization that can be done 17:26:33 this has been discussed in recent dev meetings 17:37:41 <0​x1zxq7896lp2zero:matrix.org> yep 20:04:31 Guys, I have several questions I'd like to ask to gain deep understanding of how monero works. Who can help answer a few questions in regarding to Monero? 20:04:39 Guys, I have several questions I'd like to ask to gain deep understanding of how monero works. Who can help answer a few questions in regards to Monero? 20:04:50 Is it that bad? Ive heard it leaks metadata but to whom and which homeserver doesn't do that? 20:07:22 Are we really surprised coming from a 88's software 20:09:13 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> it leaks literally everything by default there is no encryption 20:09:54 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and like matrix doesn't do that.. well i wouldn't trust matrix.org they are in the UK and are terribly incompetent when it comes to system administration 20:10:09 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> mine HS is run by a really cute german guy that i connect to over tor 20:10:42 germans usually are trustworthy 20:11:14 but how can you be sure? what are the concrete evidences that the homeserver some random guy is providing you is safer than matrix.org? 20:11:59 I mean, is there a way to test for leaks? 20:13:05 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and like IRC is fine for public conversation, but there literally isn't a single client that doesn't suck 20:13:15 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> bcs the MSC spec so that the voice calls and text messages are end-2-end encrypted 20:13:24 I've little to no confidence in germany tbh 20:13:42 AGAIN ON MATRIX.ORG CAN WE DEFEDERATE ALREADY 20:14:51 Same with Matrix. all clients sucks 20:15:03 idk how it is with xmpp tho 20:15:07 probably shittier 20:15:42 ??? metadata can be collected 20:16:09 the clients are not very good 20:16:37 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> there is bcs the encryption is handled by the clients and homeservers only manage federation 20:17:28 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> same they are incompetent, but my HS admin is cool 20:19:10 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> and i have a cool rust-based client that can do cool shit 20:19:36 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> also the home-server is written in rust 🤔 20:22:08 I would have wished everyone to go over revolt.chat but it turned so bad. Greatest open source fall after Bitcoin 20:22:29 it was also rust-written 20:23:43 Hmm, that says a lot. I use element, is there a better option I'm not aware of? 20:24:08 I've been testing Session but it is almost impossible to find rooms like this. 20:24:35 You need somehow to find an admins ID and ask him 'pretty please let me in your room' 20:25:21 Srry this is going beyond Monero scope, if there is another room I could talk about this it would be better 20:31:56 try monocles 20:33:06 what do you want to do ? 20:33:53 you don't need encryption in public groups 20:34:26 Session is sus because basically no average person can host a node. 20:36:06 try xmpp , its true decentralisation and freedom there 20:36:23 I DO host it, indeed! 20:36:41 cool 20:37:09 Wish it got as popular as Matrix. 20:41:54 I want a service that doesn't expose my personal data, thats all 20:42:15 I noticed it mostly uses german nodes. But aren't those tor nodes? 20:42:27 I'm already using Gajim and Monocles 20:42:51 Gajim is actually pretty good and keeps getting better 20:43:02 I don't really like Monocles though 20:43:12 Never tried Monocles. 20:43:17 yeah it keeps things much organised 20:43:36 If I am to try a new client, it is probably some terminal one. 20:43:58 its the only client from 2023 xD 20:44:49 profanity-im.github.io 20:45:41 I'm a really small miner, I use old hardware with like 1.5KH/s for $0.03/day 20:45:54 hope you are on the latest one. 20:45:55 though i agree it has some bugs 20:46:32 not e2ee 20:46:35 centralized 20:47:23 It was supposed to be self-hostable, for federalized, but self-hostable. and for e2ee they were too busy dealing with pirating nintendo games 20:47:33 not federalized* 20:48:34 priorities right? They told e2ee was supposed to come after vocal. vocal got delayed, clients got renew, they clients delayed, e2ee is still not a thing and revolt is still proprietary 20:49:44 >was supposed to be 20:50:03 they're hostile against selfhosting Revolt 20:51:02 Yes they were at the beginning, but people complained so they did packed up docker images and planned on making docs. 20:51:37 I say "did" and "planned" because these mfs didn't update these images and never made a single doc except saying "Third part instances are dangerous" 20:51:57 Revolt is memeware 20:52:05 no one should bother using it 20:52:32 be honest with yourself, it it hadn't turned into woke madness it would have been super great 20:53:35 yes, and if they were actually working on the project 20:53:42 I tried it today 20:53:51 it is literally the same as it was 2 years ago 20:54:17 no no. Since 2 years ago they turned off the new client beta 20:54:23 👍 20:55:06 How are they even sustaining it all? 20:55:26 Donations 20:55:54 but they don't receive a lot since people discovered mods were fucking dictators and that the project was proprietary 20:56:14 fortunately Revolt is cheap to setup since main backend instance is like 4GB of RAM 20:56:35 4 gigs for just a chat server?? 20:56:47 Even Matrix is not such bloat, wtf 20:57:03 that's nothing for Matrix homeserver admins 20:57:09 No no, its centralized and real time with a lot of features. I'm actually impressed its running on 4GB and not more 20:57:24 My Conduit takes 130 megs and it is already egregious. 20:59:28 its your own instance ? 21:00:16 like you're the only one using ? 21:00:25 Conduit sucks, I think Conduwuit is better as it is better maintained and has more features 21:01:16 I hate you: https://github.com/girlbossceo/conduwuit 21:02:48 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Its had only 3 releases 21:02:58 third time I hear about transfem.dev in a README.md 21:04:01 Maybe it was fork not a long time ago 21:04:05 Yea, I am the only user. 21:04:17 make sense then 21:06:42 Xmpp shits on it so much. It has several users yet is around 30 megs. 21:09:07 “I like discord” 💀 21:10:13 my Prosody takes up 103MB 21:10:23 how does it manage to use only 30MB 21:13:51 How many users/chats do you have? Maybe it is just me having a few. 21:15:14 I never check my server's stats but I think I have around 10 users 21:15:29 and 3 MUCs 21:15:44 <3​21bob321:monero.social> 2 weeks ago 21:15:58 Ah. 21:16:11 I have less. Are users your alts or other people? 21:16:35 other people 21:17:34 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Almost got them 21:20:23 Ah, then makes sense 22:25:35 ottimo 22:35:48 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> PSA: Undisclosed vulnerability in element-desktop reportedly in Rust SDK Crypto 22:36:14 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de/hFW4X66ZEIlpauLBc7lsVWomMrrPNkWK 22:36:38 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> (couldn't find the exact message, but NixOS Devs are under embargo to disclose details about it so it's likely real) 22:36:57 <5​m5z3q888q5prxkg:chat.lightnovel-dungeon.de> possibly in element-web and android as well 22:38:58 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Reaponsible disclosure 22:39:03 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Responsible*