02:32:08 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Yeah, which is why I find it very odd that the Monero team does self host a Matrix server, but not an IRC server, while setting up and maintaining (as in software updates) a Matrix server is a billion times harder than an IRC server.
02:33:27 <remiliascarlet> And I have maintained both in the past.
02:36:46 <remiliascarlet> However, the choice of an IRC daemon tends to get tribal real quick. Because there are thousands of different IRC daemons to choose from (because it's so easy to make one), whereas there are only 2 for Matrix (because it's way harder), so you pick Ergo, and people will complain you didn't pick ngircd, then you pick ngircd, and they will complain you didn't pick miniircd.
02:37:03 <remiliascarlet> Dog, if Ergo just works, then that's what I will use, fuck off!
02:40:46 <remiliascarlet> And out of the 3 daemons I just mentioned, only Ergo seems to come with a sane license.
03:01:40 <m-relay> <u​ser9219:matrix.org> hi
03:01:49 <m-relay> <u​ser9219:matrix.org> why monero go up??
03:09:20 <remiliascarlet> Because it can.
03:10:14 <remiliascarlet> Going up can be pretty fun, you know?
04:28:05 <m-relay> <n​obfg9000:matrix.org> the only servers i know use inspircd
04:31:04 <m-relay> <n​obfg9000:matrix.org> but as long as it uses the ircv3 uh what is it called
04:31:09 <m-relay> <n​obfg9000:matrix.org> websockets plugin
04:44:18 <remiliascarlet> The UTF8 only and multiline message thing are nice to have, but the other IRCv3 stuff are rather unnecessary.
05:48:40 <BlueyHealer> remiliascarlet, wdym there are only two for Matrix? I know at least three: Synapse, Dendrite and Conduit. And does it really matter than much with IRC?
09:21:29 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> So
09:21:34 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> How is everyone?
09:21:51 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> Wait are y'all moving to irc or something? Did I miss anything
09:34:55 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> nah we're just on schedule on our *matrix is bad* meeting. come on take a seat
10:04:02 <plowsof> lol
10:33:42 <m-relay> <n​obfg9000:matrix.org> the websocket extension is nice because it makes it possible to have web chat as just a static page
10:40:26 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> FUCK
10:40:29 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> my screen broke
10:40:32 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> :(
10:41:03 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> Does anyone here use a 1366x768 screen?
12:08:40 <BlueyHealer> <conk:monero.social> Wait are y'all moving to irc or something? Did I miss anything <- if only
12:52:39 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Last I checked, Conduit is still work in progress.
12:53:51 <remiliascarlet> conk:monero.social: I don't. In fact, I recently replaced the 1366x768 screen of a ThinkPad for a 1920x1080 one.
12:54:49 <remiliascarlet> The old screen has some dead pixels, but other than that, it works perfectly fine.
12:55:05 <BlueyHealer> Conduit is still work in progress... Yet seems to work better than the main implementation lol
12:55:32 <remiliascarlet> Well yes, Synapse sucks when it comes to resource usage.
12:55:48 <remiliascarlet> But then again, Synapse is made in Python, which in it self sucks.
12:56:19 <BlueyHealer> IDK if it would even run on my 1 gig VPS with about half a gig remaining ram
12:56:23 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> You seems to forget about conduwuit guys
12:56:38 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> The gay fork of conduit
12:56:57 <remiliascarlet> I'm not going to count meme daemons.
12:57:12 <BlueyHealer> gay, dismissed
12:57:32 <remiliascarlet> Conduit is made in Rust, and Dendrite is made in Go, so both should be far easier on resources.
12:57:39 <remiliascarlet> And far easier to install too.
12:57:49 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Yes.
12:57:59 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Tho rust is better than Go
12:58:08 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> In every aspecr
12:58:19 <remiliascarlet> But if any of them are hardcoded to use OS-specific system calls, then fuck off.
12:58:48 <remiliascarlet> Rust is a hell to learn.
12:58:57 <BlueyHealer> My main concern is storage. At least IRC doesn't store much.
12:59:16 <remiliascarlet> And the Rust community is gay as fuck, but the same can be said of the Go community.
12:59:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I can't but agree with yoy remiliascarlet it took me two years to finally get up to speed and im still learning
13:00:07 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Any computer community is gay af lmao
13:00:14 <BlueyHealer> remiliascarlet, ...why does IT attract such odd people
13:00:16 <remiliascarlet> I've been using C++ for game development, which was much easier for me to learn because I already know C.
13:00:54 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> BlueyHealer bc you dont move from home and have decent amount of money
13:01:20 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Perhaps because it doesn't require any physical abilities, and neither does it require mental abilities now that just about every programming language has at least 1 package manager, and at least 20 different frameworks.
13:01:26 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> + lgbt are very active online so you have your community easy
13:02:18 <remiliascarlet> Just look at how your average Javascript, Java, Python, and even Rust developer codes; they just use a 3rd party dependency for every single bit of code. Exceptions exist, I just mean the average developer of these languages.
13:03:08 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I dont agree but im on mobile so difficult to write sorry
13:03:59 <remiliascarlet> I can't even write on a phone for 5 seconds without getting insane.
13:04:20 <remiliascarlet> Real keyboards remain the best.
13:04:21 <BlueyHealer> I guess that's what draws me to C/C++. It just feels like there is less "magic" than in, say, Python.
13:04:42 <remiliascarlet> There's quite a lot of "magic" in C++ actually.
13:05:06 <remiliascarlet> If you want full transparency, all I can think of are C, Assembly, and Zig.
13:05:07 <BlueyHealer> Yea, I understand - just feels like less.
13:05:25 <BlueyHealer> We started with C in uni, C++ was the second semester.
13:05:58 <remiliascarlet> I make all my non-game and non-web stuff in C.
13:06:00 <BlueyHealer> And yea, starting Assembly now because I want to go into security, and that's what I saw a lot in articles.
13:06:10 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> I’d say rust expands the amount scale of a project you can have with the safety guarantees it offers up to a certain point before it becomes too restrictive and convoluted
13:06:32 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> So it has a place in industry
13:06:39 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Once you know Assembly, every piece of software becomes open source.
13:06:43 <BlueyHealer> Assembly is sure confusing but at least you are less confused than by "magic". Kind of like math - hard but at the end you still get where the thing is coming from.
13:06:50 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> BlueyHealer you are right x86 is a requierement for binary security.
13:07:47 <BlueyHealer> I really hope to start getting less "lost" with time. For now I can only follow what the article writer is seeing there, but idk if I would have been able to replicate the steps with a debugger myself for now.
13:07:58 <remiliascarlet> hardhatter:monero.social: "a project you can have with the safety guarantees it offers" Except the vast majority of Rust projects tend to wrap most of their codebases around the `unsafe {}` scope, making the whole safety features meaningless.
13:09:20 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> BlueyHealer it took me a lot of time and im still learning. One ex you could do is downloading a piece of C code on github. Compile it, then rewrite it in C from Assembly
13:09:34 <remiliascarlet> I believe the x86_64 dominance is coming to an end. You got both China and Russia pivotting towards Loongson (which is just MIPS64), Microsoft and Apple going full ARM64, Linux-based SBC's going to RISC-V, and some efforts of reviving PowerPC64 and SPARC64.
13:10:04 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I disagree remiliascarlet its a minority of people doing such and sometimes unsafe have assumptions
13:10:26 <BlueyHealer> syntheticbird, I just know that I am not going to be a full-on developer.
13:11:09 <BlueyHealer> You got both China and Russia pivotting towards Loongson <- Russia uses special computers? Maybe government/military, but the vast majority are using what the rest of the world is using.
13:11:54 <remiliascarlet> I'm just an allrounder. I do web development, tool development, and game development, as well as server, network, and infrastructure admin, and security research. I refuse to go to mobile development, because smartphones suck.
13:12:49 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: Both Russia and China apparently got an embargo on chip imports from the US, which caused China to develop their own architecture, and Russia their own OS that can run on it.
13:12:50 <BlueyHealer> I am aiming for penetration testing now, but looking at other related areas as well.
13:12:53 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> Wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case
13:13:07 <BlueyHealer> remiliascarlet, but citizens and companies still use normal computers.
13:13:32 <remiliascarlet> Because what you have can't be unhaved.
13:13:54 <BlueyHealer> There are Russian OSes... But they are not used by normal people lol. Maybe government, maybe state agencies and an odd enthusiast that looks at it like at a zoo animal.
13:14:09 <remiliascarlet> But eventually your average normie is going to switch over from old hardware to new.
13:14:13 <BlueyHealer> remiliascarlet, but normal PCs are very much being imported...
13:14:38 <remiliascarlet> Ah, really?
13:15:44 <BlueyHealer> What is in an average tech store are average Asuses, Dells, Lenovos, Apples, et cetera. And some weird noname ones. Noname ones probably have more established architectures as well, but idk, maybe somewhere weird new ones are present too. Most people have mainstream computers and phones though.
13:17:38 <remiliascarlet> Apples these days are ARM64, though.
13:18:08 <BlueyHealer> Yea, true. But most people are using much cheaper computers, which are mostly not.
13:18:12 <remiliascarlet> And ARM64 laptops that come with Windows are becoming more common too.
13:18:38 <remiliascarlet> Well, they just started to get common anyway.
13:19:07 <remiliascarlet> The very reason why Recall only works on ARM64, and not x86_64.
13:20:03 <remiliascarlet> Not because it's impossible, but so that Microsoft can somewhat force, I mean, incentivise hardware manufacturers to switch to ARM64.
13:20:06 <BlueyHealer> Yea, but I'd bet most laptops I see around are still x86.
13:20:19 <remiliascarlet> Right now, yes.
13:20:46 <remiliascarlet> But I said the x86_64 dominance is coming to an end, not that it has already ended.
13:21:00 <BlueyHealer> ye, maybe
13:21:53 <BlueyHealer> But anyway, at least Russian situation with consumer electronics is no different now. Maybe the government use is different but not for average person.
13:24:20 <remiliascarlet> "Hey Kazaghstan, you got those fancy Intel and AMD PC's, right? Mind if we bought some from you to resell it to our citizens?"
13:24:30 <remiliascarlet> At least, I assume that's the case.
13:24:56 <BlueyHealer> probably
13:35:01 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> Open hardware is really where this community needs to put some attention towards
13:35:13 <BlueyHealer> YES
13:35:24 <BlueyHealer> Not "this community". The world.
13:37:07 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> MISC instruction sets can get you you pretty far with much less advanced manufacturing requirements. Intelligent software with minimal hardware supersedes bloated fast hardware
13:37:47 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> And one day the rest of you will figure out how to move passed microprocessors all together
13:40:40 <BlueyHealer> Lol, reminds me. I had a phase as a teen when I rejected desktops altogether and was just interested in radio. Still have that thing almost-assembled.
13:41:33 <BlueyHealer> If this continued, might've got in trouble with law by doing what I'm not supposed to, because I hated how amateur radio is forced to be non-anonymous and use no encryption too lol
13:41:45 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> Should’ve kept going
13:42:53 <BlueyHealer> Yea, might do so. But now I see that I don't hate computers - I just hate the proprietary thing executed on them. Now learning about both software and hardware freedom.
13:43:14 <m-relay> <h​ardhatter:monero.social> Microprocessors we’re always a naive approach to computing. But they were straightforward and there was a simple plan to scale them. Industry as it always does got lost in the weeds of optimization
13:43:16 <BlueyHealer> <hardhatter:monero.social> Should’ve kept going <- although without airing anything, because I am afraid of the law)
13:45:17 <BlueyHealer> I didn't care about openness so no idea about it in this regard, but I was looking at making things based on STM. Just because that's what I've seen in blog posts and that's what classmates were working with.
14:48:28 <m-relay> <p​cre:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/mleMKtRWAunOVdrSnElBXTKY
14:51:18 <m-relay> <p​cre:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/AzRGOsOXZfzhChfdbUwsBvJE
14:52:03 <remiliascarlet> 1 XMR is now 27,725 JPY. Quite refreshing compared to it being constantly between 21,000 and 22,000 JPY for 3 years straight.
15:44:41 <BlueyHealer> TFW Monero is more stable than your main currency.
15:51:30 <m-relay> <h​elasse:linarphy.net> great, now i have to do *2 again just to get to the next tier
15:53:01 <remiliascarlet> BlueyHealer: I don't know what's better, a strong euro or dollar with constantly inflating prices, or a weak yen with no inflation at all.
15:53:36 <remiliascarlet> Because really, what used to cost 100 yen 2 years ago still costs 100 yen today.
15:53:55 <BlueyHealer> Ours is weak AND inflating.
15:54:14 <remiliascarlet> But what costs 1 US dollar or 1 euro 2 years ago is like 8 US dollar or 6 euro today.
15:54:29 <BlueyHealer> We used to buy dollars to store value in, but now we don't have much of savings anymore.
15:54:50 <remiliascarlet> That extra sucks then.
15:55:41 <m-relay> <h​elasse:linarphy.net> The yen is cheap now because the inflation of the last century never went away
15:56:32 <remiliascarlet> The nice thing is that whenever I send an invoice to my western customers, I earn a lot more without having to raise prices.
15:56:48 <remiliascarlet> What sucks is whenever I need to buy something from overseas.
15:57:41 <remiliascarlet> Like I wanted to get myself that N64 flashcard from Ukraine, but the gap between US dollar and yen got so wide, I don't even bother getting one anymore.
15:59:40 <m-relay> <p​cre:monero.social> Doable.
17:00:28 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> It’ll be awesome if XMR ever reaches current BTC price levels
17:00:30 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Not because I love price go up (although I do$), but because it would only happen if XMR became a truly universal currency
17:04:04 <m-relay> <s​toplightskydiver:matrix.org> I don't think it ever will, it's a currency and not a store of value
17:04:24 <m-relay> <h​elasse:linarphy.net> I think it's more likely that bitcoin disappears as a "useless collectible" once monero becomes the norm and a "good enough" store of value that people don't need another hedge against inflation anymore
17:08:07 <BlueyHealer> What would high price of the currency even mean? It would mean things costing weird amounts...
17:22:27 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Actually I disagree, this is my reasoning:
17:22:28 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> There are around 2.3 trillion US dollars in circulation currently. Let’s say that tomorrow the entire US switches to XMR. The value of XMR (priced in dollars) would then be the total supply of dollars divided by the total supply of XMR at the time of the switch. Do the math and that would price XMR at 124k current USD.
17:22:30 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> However, you have to specify current USD, as in any scenario where XMR takes over pricing XMR in USD makes no sense, or is at least uncertain, because USD will decrease in value significantly.
17:23:50 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> I think that long-term BTC’s staying price will be around 10k; it won’t ever completely die out, and it’ll still probably be used for some rare edge cases for wealthier parties, but it definitely won’t be the “future of finance”; merely a stepping stone
17:25:22 <m-relay> <p​reland:matrix.org> Ofc that’s assuming that bitcoin doesn’t get royally screwed by quantum computing, cuz it’ll be the first thing to go if that becomes a concern
17:26:22 <BlueyHealer> No, first thing of concern would be trying to read dissidents' messages, money comes only second.
21:11:34 <m-relay> <e​ndor00:matrix.org> Don't worry, it will get screwed by the lack of tail emission long before that
22:26:57 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> How popular is haveno rn in the world of p2p trading?
22:27:08 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> I see that p2p trading is flourishing in places like LCS, binance and Bitpapa
22:27:10 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> And telefram
22:27:18 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> And telegram
22:27:36 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> Have no and Moneroswap and Xmrbazaar aren't really as popular relatively
22:27:55 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> Maybe because they're locked down behind for, login page or are a software?
22:39:15 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> I guess because those popular p2p sites have a very low entry barrier
22:39:33 <m-relay> <c​onk:monero.social> You only need to sign up an account using chrome to get started
22:42:06 <vthor> "I guess because those popular p2p sites have a very low entry barrier", "You only need to sign up an account using chrome to get started", ironie?
22:43:10 <nioCat> do those easy ones let you trade vs fiat?
23:06:39 <m-relay> <a​mmortel:monero.social> Will monero be the third crypto to reach 1000$? Would be great to shit on binance and claim the third place before bnb does