06:47:57 <m-relay> <thegoodlabel:matrix.org> tx_extra.h "struct tx_extra_mysterious_minergate" 06:48:19 <m-relay> <thegoodlabel:matrix.org> please pardon my ignorance but why is this still in the code???? 06:49:03 <m-relay> <thegoodlabel:matrix.org> i was under the impression minergate was "blacklisted" not sure why this is still in the codebase 11:27:22 <m-relay> <tamlotamlugufum:matrix.org> https://2935-138-199-60-14.ngrok-free.app 11:28:15 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> 26 sessions, DO NOT CLICK 11:28:32 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> I'll see what it is 11:29:51 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> spam 11:29:52 <m-relay> <tamlotamlugufum:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/qNglgLTKTLIIiYsTTmTAerYQ 11:30:08 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> plowsof: 11:30:31 <plowsof> matrix is loading, please hold 11:30:44 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Thanks plowsof 11:31:00 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> what is the most secure browser and messenger tho? 11:31:18 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Most secure browser? One that doesn't run javascript 11:31:30 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> That will remove 99.9% of security holes 11:31:32 <sech1> One that connects to 127.0.0.1 only 11:31:43 <m-relay> <tamlotamlugufum:matrix.org> secure browser: tor browser, secure messanger: signal 11:31:52 <m-relay> <tamlotamlugufum:matrix.org> secure browser: tor browser, secure messenger: signal 11:31:55 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> wrong signal, it is simplex 11:31:58 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Lol, shill for the centralized KYC service 11:32:08 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> and opsec traching is a scam 11:32:25 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> and opsec teaching is a scam 11:32:32 <m-relay> <tamlotamlugufum:matrix.org> how?? 11:32:34 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> it differs for everyone 11:32:56 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> you build it yourself depending on ... why I'm giving you ideas lmao 11:33:03 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Waiting for a second audit of simplex but it is 'best' AFAIK 11:33:43 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> basically, you build your opsec by outlining your threat model and attack vectors 11:33:55 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> That is the first thing 11:33:57 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> it will never be the same for other people 11:34:30 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Page says 'from being caught', assuming that privacy/security -> criminality 11:36:58 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> their opsec ain't great lmao, imagine giving course to criminals with that kind of opsec 11:43:13 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> nigga I got banned for "scam" 11:43:16 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> how did I scam? 11:43:19 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> do you have proof I scammed? 11:43:44 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> ofc not lmaoo 11:44:30 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> course isn't designed for criminals 11:44:50 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> it's designed for security and ethical hackers 11:45:01 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> it's not blackhat hacking or criminal activity 11:45:08 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> I didn't scam 11:45:21 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> plowsof 11:45:35 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> fuck off, no one cares 11:45:42 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> this is not related to monero 11:47:56 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> you are all scammers 11:49:23 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you recanman rando 11:49:32 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Ouch, I haven't done much 11:49:54 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you scamkmer 11:49:56 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> scammer 11:50:05 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> We are here to discuss Monero/currency, not here to sell/buy your courses 11:50:13 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> I won't say much else other than that 11:50:29 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> well I'm not here to be scammed by you 11:50:31 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck you scammer 11:50:32 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> fuck scammers 11:50:38 <m-relay> <sexygndrfijuh:nope.chat> rando: fuck you 11:54:04 <m-relay> <plowsof:matrix.org> lesson 1: how to deal with adversity ^ 11:58:48 <m-relay> <123bob123:matrix.org> Fck free zone 11:58:51 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> hey how did i scam 11:58:56 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> why did you ban me for scam 11:59:04 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> what proof have you got that I scammed? 11:59:40 <m-relay> <123bob123:matrix.org> Cause we all live in our parents basements 12:06:52 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> plowsof: I'm teaching people opsec, security and programming and you call that a scam 12:07:01 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> i'm trying to teach people 12:07:12 <plowsof> opsec course leader sharing a desktop screenshot with identifiable information = scam.. no introduction, just pasting an offtopic link = offtopic/spam 12:23:17 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:18 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:20 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:22 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:24 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:26 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:28 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:30 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:32 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:34 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:36 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:38 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:23:40 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> nigger 12:25:51 <m-relay> <ct:xmr.mx> oh yes you looks like a professional opsec specialist lmao 12:26:44 <m-relay> <ammortel:monero.social> Maybe he's just pretending and he's not actually a nigger... 12:30:53 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> his swears actually manage to increase fractal memory usage by 100 MB 12:30:58 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> gj 12:50:20 <m-relay> <preland:matrix.org> He’s obtained a certification in cybersecurity from the Komputer Kybersecurity Kollege 12:50:37 <m-relay> <mathiuscov:matrix.org> I dont get what the endgame was here really 13:07:13 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do. 13:07:14 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain. Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions. 13:07:36 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do. 13:07:38 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain? Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions. 13:08:08 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I imagine you follow the monero research channel more closely than I do. 13:08:10 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Has any there figured out how to create either a constant space or logarithmic space folding block chain? Where the chain itself can be used to prove transactions and balances are valid but only the owner of a wallet has to store the transactions made from or to that wallet. Or atleast the chain stores global transaction info but grows logarithmically with respect to the number of transactions. 13:11:25 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> Idk about logarithmic space, but only solution I heard for constant space is zk recursive proof. Which hasn't been explored by MRL since we don't need one at the moment, it is also in contradiction with monero spirit of being able to spend your monero back to genesis. I don't think the idea of folding blockchain while keeping transactions informations have been quoted however. 13:13:21 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: AFAIK, this type of blockchain structure is already in production on Mina for example. But if the user loses their wallet data, they have lost their coins even if they have a seed phrase. Is that an acceptable tradeoff? 13:23:22 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> For scalability I absolutely think so. It’s a necessary trade off I think. Burdening the user to back up their data is a small price to pay for a network that doesn’t break at large scales 13:25:47 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> In fact I think this is a high priority feature. And should be worked on heavily after fcmps are done 13:26:39 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I might even be willing to do the work for this. I’ll take a look at Mina to see if it has more pitfalls 13:33:42 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> tx recipients probably need to be online at the time txs are sent, too. I'm not sure about that. 13:34:10 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Not to mention the essential protection from large adversaries that seek to bloat the network not only to make it unusable but also to prevent the average person from being able to run their own node 13:37:07 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> This would be moving wallet recovery backward to pre-BIP-39 13:39:08 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> There might be a way around that I can of but, I also that even if there wasn’t thats not actually a serious problem because the sender then has the responsibility to store that transaction data to provide the recipient. If the sender doesn’t do so then it’s his own problem. It’s his loss. The recipient doesn’t have to accept an exchange if he never got proof of payment. 13:39:10 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> But like I said I think there’s a way around problem anyway 13:39:26 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> There might be a way around that I can of but, I also think that even if there wasn’t thats not actually a serious problem because the sender then has the responsibility to store that transaction data to provide the recipient. If the sender doesn’t do so then it’s his own problem. It’s his loss. The recipient doesn’t have to accept an exchange if he never got proof of payment. 13:39:28 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> But like I said I think there’s a way around problem anyway 13:39:36 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> There would be no way to memorize your wallet seed phrase for recovery. If you are in a dangerous situation where the only safe place is your brain. 13:40:32 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> While blockchain folding isn't perfect, a scenario where part of nodes have a folding blockchain and the rest have full or pruned blockchain might be possible 13:40:57 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> Tho it ask the question of are we going to end up in an eth situation with archive nodes 13:41:12 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I genuinely believe this is a relatively less important issue than the viability to the network itself. That amounts to a UX problem that’s manageable 13:41:32 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> The ideal is for all people to have a copy of the blockchain. hardhatter if you are really determined, you can implement this scheme by yourself, and make it works with the rest of the network 13:41:34 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I genuinely believe this is a relatively less important issue than the viability of the network itself. That amounts to a UX problem that’s manageable 13:43:48 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> The network is so viable that an unpruned Monero node take 2/3rd the space of the 2024 Call of Duty game. Monero txs now pay for their own storage space on the network with about 20,000 nodes. You can do the mathematics. 13:45:08 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> One 1TB SATA SSD = 1 XMR. It costs one piconero to store one byte on a 1 TB SATA SSD. Minimum tx fee is 20,000 piconeros. The number of nodes on the network is estimated at 20,000. 13:45:23 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> 😎 13:45:31 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing to share. 13:45:32 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware 13:45:37 <m-relay> <prancing389:matrix.org> https://bastyon.com/networkr0?s=ba658d453c7f3d9f3db91606ff968785a9b9106b11dd0200f1efcabf75bc4021&ref=PR39WqQZoVzC8KXu5xALSeyzY7JZkKPRwK 13:45:58 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing not to share. 13:46:00 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware 13:46:16 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Okay so listen. It’s likely I could formally prove that it’s not possible if I had the time to do that. With the only exception being compressing the whole blockchain. And technically that is possible however that compression algorithm is my personal IP that I’m willing not to share. 13:46:18 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> There is another compression algorithm that I am willing to share that would hypothetically work but it’s much less scalable too costly for the average person’s hardware (edited) 13:46:50 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> Blockchain data isn't very compressible because it's mostly random data like cryptographic keys. 13:49:03 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> It’s compressible. I know is from empirical evidence that from applications I use in practice. It’s a misconception that led people to believe that you can’t compress this data efficiently. It’s just less trivial to develop an algorithm that achieves that. 13:49:10 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> It’s compressible. I know it is from empirical evidence from applications I use in practice. It’s a misconception that led people to believe that you can’t compress this data efficiently. It’s just less trivial to develop an algorithm that achieves that. 13:51:14 <m-relay> <ammortel:monero.social> Please do it I would donate 13:52:43 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: Here is an MRL issue about "Scale the blockchain with recursive ZK proofs" https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/110 13:53:09 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I’m willing to use the Mina protocol or use IP that I explicitly develop for a folding blockchain. But the most suitable compression algorithm I’m not sharing. The less suitable I don’t think is worth me working on when a folding blockchain is possible 13:53:23 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I’m willing to use the Mina protocol or use IP that I explicitly develop for a folding blockchain. But the most suitable compression algorithm I’m not sharing. The less suitable compression algorithm I don’t think is worth me working on when a folding blockchain is possible 13:56:11 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Btw a consequence of this compression algorithm is I could basically single handedly take over the chia network. So consider that as a security risk 13:56:39 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Not entirely relevant to PoW tho 13:56:56 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> While I admire your passion and dedication towards this issue. It isn't helping to not share your research with the community 13:57:32 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I could’ve said nothing. In fact saying at all was only a detriment to my own privacy 13:57:50 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> sure, guess you never checked this bookmark lmao 13:57:52 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/CxWuRqhMrHYPWRzZTgpCdYrQ 13:57:59 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> . 13:58:14 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> guess this is one of them 14:00:29 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> https://github.com/kelvintechie1 14:00:34 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> this u kiddo? 14:01:13 <m-relay> <basses:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ArwbeYbOlVqNaKgxhdYrFApR 14:32:05 <m-relay> <kimapr0:matrix.org> Just wait when they are away from home long enough, then you can fsck 14:32:45 <m-relay> <kimapr0:matrix.org> oh this is not the offtopic room 14:33:49 <m-relay> <recanman:kernal.eu> Wow, 4x CCNP 14:34:07 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Okay so back of the napkin calculation. If we intend to cap out at the visa networks tx/s. Then as long as the average person can achieve a PB of storage that can buy us like 30 years. So if the eventual the average person can hold 100 PB. I’d say we’re gonna be fine for a long time ~3000 years 14:34:48 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Okay so back of the napkin calculation. If we intend to cap out at the visa networks tx/s. Then as long as the average person can achieve a PB of storage that can buy us like 30 years. So if eventually the average person can hold 100 PB. I’d say we’re gonna be fine for a long time ~3000 years 14:35:57 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> If we don’t go far past what fcmps are already adding to the tx size 14:37:23 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> That’s also assuming we can throttle not to go above the visa network tx/s which should be doable 14:38:55 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> For that scale, you need to consider CPU usage and internet bandwidth as possible bottlenecks, too 14:44:27 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao you’re right. And frankly I’m skeptical we’re gonna scale that fast in that space. I think it’s more likely judging from the current path industry is taking that it’s atleast plausible that internet bandwidth will scale enough. But given the approach industry has been consistently taking for that last several decades with microprocessor I’m pretty skeptical they<clipped message> 14:44:28 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> ’re gonna scale fast enough. But hey it only takes one researcher to figure solution to the problem. It might happen but I would’ve thought it would’ve happened 2 decades ago 14:45:20 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao you’re right. And frankly I’m skeptical we’re gonna scale that fast in that space. I think it’s more likely judging from the current path industry is taking that it’s atleast plausible that internet bandwidth will scale enough. But given the approach industry has been consistently taking for that last several decades with microprocessors I’m pretty skeptical they<clipped message> 14:45:22 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> ’re gonna scale fast enough. But hey it only takes one researcher to figure out a solution to the problem. It might happen but I would’ve thought it would’ve happened 2 decades ago 14:45:47 <m-relay> <rucknium:monero.social> hardhatter: When you edit a message on Matrix, the IRC relay gets spammed with duplicate messages 14:47:10 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I know my bad. I thought this channel was less serious so I’ve been less careful about typos. But I’ll try to be more careful here as well 14:49:47 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I should’ve also mentioned that I do think storage will scale quickly enough if that wasn’t implicit from the comment with the napkin calculation 14:54:02 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> The cpu bottle neck is inherently gonna bottle neck the internet bandwidth. But I don’t think internet bandwidth will be the bottleneck that we run into if cpu isn’t a bottleneck 15:04:14 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I might be possible to scale enough with microprocessors to buy us over 100 yrs but that depends on whether or not they can cool them effectively, which is questionable. Otherwise they have to figure out how to move passed microprocessors 15:04:22 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> It might be possible to scale enough with microprocessors to buy us over 100 yrs but that depends on whether or not they can cool them effectively, which is questionable. Otherwise they have to figure out how to move passed microprocessors 15:04:38 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Lmfao here I go again with typos ugh 15:11:05 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Also I think it would be better if monero was viable on less powerful computers and less demanding telecommunications infrastructure. We don’t need to depend on high precision machinery and amounts of resources inaccessible to the average person to manufacture computers that could hypothetically run on a folding blockchain 15:11:35 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> run a folding* 15:38:58 <m-relay> <nihilist:m.datura.network> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/m.datura.network/aRcmZPbLDqGszDpYLpKxvxzG 15:39:02 <m-relay> <nihilist:m.datura.network> at last i recieved it 15:39:17 <m-relay> <nihilist:m.datura.network> the delivery just 3 months lol 15:39:23 <m-relay> <nihilist:m.datura.network> the delivery just took 3 months lol 16:15:41 <m-relay> <pepe86frog:matrix.org> great book 17:06:36 <m-relay> <stoplightskydiver:matrix.org> Looks like a great read! Gonna put it on my purchase list 17:06:46 <m-relay> <stoplightskydiver:matrix.org> I wonder if the author accepts XMR lol 17:10:34 <m-relay> <stoplightskydiver:matrix.org> I wonder if you can buy it with XMR lol 17:10:36 <m-relay> <stoplightskydiver:matrix.org> And you actually can 17:12:02 <remiliascarlet> Of course, because it would have been hypocritical to make a book about Monero, but the only way to pay for it is with fiat currencies. 17:14:06 <remiliascarlet> Like all these people on YouTube telling you how YouTube sucks and how you have to move to whatever alt tech platform they want you to move to, but they themselves remain on YouTube, and will probably never even log into any of those alt tech accounts themselves. 17:16:44 <m-relay> <baz:monero.social> i'm going to buy one too, proper shilling Nihilist [blog.nihilism.network] 👍️ 17:18:34 <m-relay> <baz:monero.social> i'll be honest with ya, i downloaded the ebook off Anonymouse. i'll pickup the hardcover for my lapse in judgment. 17:27:44 <m-relay> <baz:monero.social> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/mCNaljLzRXAAUTVrRblSxilh 17:27:52 <m-relay> <baz:monero.social> redemption 19:19:54 <m-relay> <123bob123:matrix.org> Is this the same person who keeps talking about pruning the monero blockchain on monerotalk? 19:33:30 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> Me? No I’m not that guy and I think pruning has more serious consequences since that can cause the proof of legitimacy of the most recent balances to be called into question. Plus a folding blockchain is orders of magnitude more compact than what a pruned blockchain would be in practice 19:34:30 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> hardhatter I think you should share your thoughts in #monero-research-lounge instead of #monero 19:36:37 <m-relay> <hardhatter:monero.social> I mean look I’m just replying to that guy. I’m not gonna keep bringing this exact discussion up here if no one is continuing the conversation in any way. 19:56:57 <Good_Angel> hello guys 20:01:52 <Good_Angel> how are you? 20:42:21 <m-relay> <aaa:nope.chat> that's not me 20:45:13 <m-relay> <syntheticbird:monero.social> LIAR!