00:18:58 <321bob321:monero.social> ^ 00:41:17 what happened to v0.18.3.4 ? 01:01:55 supposed to be mid month so.... 01:02:04 soon™ 01:04:13 "More bug fixes have been merged into v0.18.3.4, checkpoints have been updated. Current estimate is mid-August release." 01:31:31 Any estimate for how much monero is lost+burned per year? 01:50:51 123.58 coins roughly 01:51:12 1235.8 01:51:32 Idk 06:17:03 probably the same rate as bitcoin, if not higher due to the valuation difference. the most frequently cited study by Cane Island suggests it's ~4%/yr 11:33:36 hey guys what do u think about monero dev cycle vs other coin like eth? coming from eth developers from their foundation they seem to ship faster while monero is slower. i think slower is better as fast shows lack of care and rush. what do you think 11:45:08 Monero ships when it ships and isnt s foundation. We're community developed and reviewed 11:46:34 do u think this can last long? what happens if the community give up? eth foundation can mint $500k in eth whenever they need motivation. how will monero community survive 11:47:13 like kayaba i watch some said he doesnt make anything from serai and i dont know how he keep motivation or if its stable long term 11:53:21 We run on donations and it has worked fine for many years 11:53:40 He's self funded and isn't _accepting_ donations 11:55:22 ok 11:55:44 self funded?? is this glowie? 11:56:03 no 11:56:57 He made money from bug bounties and recently funded for FCMP. He's free to spend the funds however he wishes 11:57:24 ok i didnt know history 11:58:01 other monero devs are making anywhere from 80-375xmr every 3 months 11:58:38 thats not bad. not eth number but for community run very good 11:59:00 hopefully dev can get more for there very good work. they deserve it 11:59:23 its very good imo. There are no bosses here. You work on whatever you choose 12:02:30 same with eth foundation. they hold over $1b in eth and earning interest do nothing and no boss 12:03:03 i wish that money was allocated for monero development instead not gone to waste 12:04:47 i see monero have fund for ccs. is that foundation too? 12:04:59 monero core 12:06:21 No 12:06:32 CCS is community donations 12:06:34 still community run 12:06:39 ok 12:08:00 There are no funds allocated to ccs aside from the individual donations that come in for each proposal. 12:08:01 General Fund occasionally donates to dev and research proposals 12:08:20 one more question soz for asking many. i worry about monero and its reliance on other crypto in market. when they eventual fall and the ponzi stop, since monero have many pair in btc for example it will fall like 2020 to lowest price. how can we get monero to stop being reliant on ponzi coin 12:08:59 if monero doesnt become antifragile it will be useless as currency 12:10:42 Delist 12:11:04 Cant fake dump if its not available on cex to dump 12:11:07 from cex? 12:11:15 I just wonder what Ethereum maxis would use as normal internet currency lol. Domain renewal is like $15, how much would that be in Ethereum fees? 12:11:22 yeah 12:11:39 so that is why monero didnt dump as much this time 12:11:45 ok good to know 12:12:05 Why do you think Bitcoin is a ponzi? It is the OG. Same idea but stolen by people that are more interested in gains. 12:12:15 it fake dumped bcuz of fake volume on stuff like gate.io. 12:12:28 Do you know _anybody_ that uses gate.io? I dont 12:12:32 BlueyHealer as i said in offtopic ethereum people do not consider eth currency at all. we do not like using it as money. its similar chain to facilitate smart contracts which include defi and finance 12:12:39 this is the first time I hear of gate.io. 12:13:08 sofabox, ye, I get that point. So do they not mind just using their cards? 12:13:10 i think eth is ponzi too. its just smarter ponzi than bitcoin hidden behind complexity 12:13:15 Because its a MLM scheme lol. 500k max tx/day = its a fiat making sham 12:13:17 so it will take longer to pop 12:13:27 Gate supposedly has the highest xmr daily volume 😂 12:14:22 BlueyHealer yes no one care about eth being useless other than for defi and scam. actually most of the biggest whale already know its ponzi and just taking advantage of dumb retail and institutions who come in 12:14:42 ofrnxmr, I just don't get it. Initially the tech had the same ideas as Monero now, didn't it? Seems to me more like a step in evolution of digital cash. 12:14:51 Nvm. highest is "whitebit"now 12:15:30 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/zsuWMrJFUTRsGsnqAkpmdyWp 12:15:33 I bought Monero specifically because I couldn't use my card... Just a few years ago I wouldn't have believed I would be involved with any cruptocurrency lol 12:15:56 probably all fake volume. whitebit doesnt seem real 12:16:39 Kraken at 2mill is the realistic top 12:16:59 and the price of xmr is not good representation. im example of one person who wants to go all in but literal cant because there is no way of getting high amount of xmr. if whales cant get xmr then the price is really suppressed because demand is only coming from small buys 12:17:23 Why is Kraken listed twice? 12:17:54 different pair. usd and usdt are different. usdt stablecoin and usd is deposit from bank 12:17:56 Bit2me = fake 12:17:57 htx fake 12:17:59 mexc fake 12:18:01 bitmart fake 12:18:03 kucoin inflated / grid bots 12:18:05 why kraken twice << Usd and usdt 12:18:26 get the real monero price from haveno 12:18:43 still not real. i tried haveno and pathetic liquidity and price impact 12:19:05 Not even real ^, its still heavily influenced by the fake price 12:19:09 i see its purpose for small trade and p2p but still not good representation until we get dex like serai 12:19:23 I am yet to try because I buy for cash anyway, but if the person can't sell to me anymore - I will. I do have the initial deposit now as well) 12:19:32 if it use same price mechanism as bisq then probably yes 12:19:53 Monero holders were smart, theyd raise haveno prices to always maintain 5x whatever cex is. Forcing users to arbitrage trade (but our cex reserves) 12:20:18 Once cex empty, then you'll see a REAL price 12:20:31 also the barrier of entry high. many people want cex/eth dex experience. just connect and one click swap 12:20:49 It is not one-click, you'd have to present an ID. 12:21:02 for cex yes not eth dex 12:21:07 You can use litecoin etc to buy xmr with no middlemen using basicswap 12:21:36 cex so bad now i use kucoin yesterday and even small amount need kyc. i remember binance having no kyc limit for up to 2 btc daily 12:21:44 Not eth tho. Yet 12:22:11 but i have eth. i saw basicswap and looks good but i think it need more pairs and we need a dex like this online no need of downloading anything but im not sure if it possible 12:22:42 its possible but insecure 12:23:08 how does thorchain do it then? 12:23:19 it has really good ui/ux 12:23:23 the point of running the nodes is to ensure the trades are being brosdcast and verified locally 12:23:26 and security 12:24:01 Remote nodes trade security and especially privacy for convenience 12:24:53 I am very afraid of KYC, mobile carrier, govt services, train/bus tickets and hotels needing it is way overkill already, I am not tempting fate with one more place from there it can potentially leak... 12:24:56 actually youd be surprise how important convenience is with crypto. in eth everyone pivot to making consumer chains with the best convenience after the solana memecoin run 12:25:13 eth l2 i speak about here 12:25:22 I have to trust your node to send me correct info. Running node and wallet locally means that everything happens locally. I know the tx is in my wallet, because im running the full reference node and the full reference wallet for the coins im interacting with 12:25:23 I would go through whatever lengths needed to get my xmr without KYC. Especially given crypto's "gray" status legally. 12:25:37 Convenience brought us metamask wallet sweeps etc 12:25:38 How does eth dex work in this context? 12:25:43 vcs investing millions to making convenience possible. i worry that if eth and solana become used by consumer. monero will get left behind because of its complexity 12:26:21 When addine eth to basicswap, it will probably allow browser wallet plugins like metamask. Eth users dont care 12:26:22 I would run my own node if I had bigger amounts, right now the stash is really small. 12:26:32 eth dex is completely permissionless and has no kyc. if you have used swap services like trocador, its basically the same thing except it uses decentalized liquidity instead of cex 12:26:44 Ah, you mean swapping for another crypto. 12:26:52 yes 12:26:59 Ye, the services for Monero like this are very easy too. 12:27:07 if you try to get with fiat same problem as any other coin 12:27:33 Should try basicswap with ltc and xmr. Its not as clunky as it seems 12:27:36 hm i dont know about dex. i have yet to use monero dex that comparable to eth one. maybe serai will change things 12:27:37 ofrnxmr, do you use a local node yourself? 12:27:41 as it sounds* 12:28:19 Yes, ofc. I run my monero node on android 12:28:25 I highly recommend this, had a great and easy experience yesterday 12:28:42 I also now run ltc and firo nodes as a result of using basicswap 12:28:49 ofrnxmr, how much storage does that need? 12:29:14 I have basic Linux experience and this was probs one of the easiest plug and play experience I’ve had in crypto for a DEX 12:29:36 Xmr node needs ~80gb free space. 12:29:37 Ltc needs ~4gb, firo ~4gb 12:29:45 what is highest liquidity for basicswap? 12:29:51 rn 12:29:58 ltc -> xmr 12:30:10 LTC, Monero and BTC have the highest liquidity 12:30:15 Oh. I have 128 gigs which is overkill for a phone use, but a node like that would still leave too little room. 12:30:36 At a computer, though... Can an external SSD be used? 12:30:58 Yes csn use external ssd 12:31:15 I just don't really have that much more XMR than the cost of said SSD, so never really considered that. 12:31:18 has monero consider using l2 for scalability? 12:31:49 My node is an old phone, dedicated to being running node and other services 12:32:00 Fcmp should enable payment channels 12:32:33 And monero-lws acts as a sort of layer1.5, we just dont have wallet support yet 12:32:38 Fcmp the mythical beast, can’t wait 12:33:05 Lws has subaddress support ? 12:33:07 I would not like to use a phone constantly plugged in, it's not supposed to do that. Maybe if you somehow remove the battery and fool the phone into thinking it is there - I remember someone using a capacitor for this. 12:33:30 what does this mean? will it impact the amount of tx monero can handle per block? 12:34:03 But yea, I would have considered an own node if I had more XMR. Does that need to be online all the time or you can just sync it and use whenever needed? 12:34:15 Liquidity on basicswap is still relatively low compared to bisq and even Haveno, but its mostly because people have misconceptions about how hard it is to add liquidty 12:36:36 also is tari positive for monero? 12:37:00 i see it has smart contract support and l2 with mining monero 12:37:41 how is that in terms of privacy, autonomy and censorship resistance 12:38:05 the lws servers are sketch in my opinion, or atleast bad for the network health. Way too much faith in external entities not to be colluding and tracking 12:38:32 BlueyHealer unless im mistaken i think tari will enable privacy with smart contracts so you can have eth-like uniswap dex on there and private 12:38:50 it will also merge mine with monero so more security with higher hash rate 12:40:29 lws require server to scan monero blockchain for you is that correct so you give it viewkey? this not safe... 12:41:37 its safe in the sense they can not take your funds, otherwise yea you forfeit most of the purpose of monero lol 12:44:37 scanning and running your node is tedious for some so i think tradeoff is ok until we get seraphis right that should speed up syncing because monero is very hard to use with your own node. setting up is easy but the wait is long 12:45:12 any user can run lws 12:45:34 I can run it at home and save tonnes on my mobile battery and data 12:45:57 yea I think I missed thinking about that use case 12:46:07 so you run your own node then use it remotely with other devices you own? 12:46:10 So what about my previous node question? 12:46:18 cant you already do this with local node? 12:46:21 I do stuff on desktop, so manually checking blocks locally from any node is good 12:46:22 Can you only run it when it is needed? 12:46:52 Youd run lws all the time on your server / at home 12:47:54 Not if youre at the store. If youre not home, you have to sync your waller remotely 12:48:14 also question for some. since serai will be public blockchain and audible, i imagine there will be people who will buy coin from cex like btc/ltc then swap on serai for xmr. do you think chainanalysis will track this as fraud and start closing accounts on cex? 12:48:39 If using lws, lws will sync the wallet on lws and transfer the info to your phone (saving a lot of cpu time and mobile data) 12:48:50 has this happen to basicswap users? 12:48:53 for example 12:49:29 Hasnt happened yet, but ltc has mweb 12:50:26 For btc, a broken chain, i imagine cex dont want you using funds in any way they dont need appropriate 12:50:29 ok i just find it ridiculous that all crypto is tracked like this but the same treatment not really happen for cash. why they see xmr as this big threat 12:50:41 Dont deem** appropriate 12:50:57 xmr only has 2b marketcap its not even that big but the focus on it by governments is very high 12:51:10 i find this sus 12:51:14 and they allow scam ponzis to continue worth trillion... 12:51:20 and they allow scam ponzis to continue worth trillion... for btc 12:52:21 i saw on twitter even community members working on monero getting attack or ddos. this is very sad and i think its a sign everyone here on right track 12:52:47 ty all for help answering my question i appreciate it 12:54:56 Monero.town, trocador.app, monero.com, public nodes, monerica.com, a lot a services under attack 12:55:19 haveno seeds nodes 12:55:33 really? but haveno so small... 12:56:28 right?. I wonder how theyll attack basicswap. Probably same thing, going after seed nodes 13:01:41 also has anyone seen that bitcoiner super testnet who crack monero transaction. im not technical good so is this true or fake? 13:02:20 he built some monero explorer that show all possible ring signature input if you put in transaction or for latest blocks. apparently you can narrow down tx if you know some things so is this bad... 13:09:21 His explorer is trash 13:10:03 all the bitcoiner say monero is broken and gone 13:10:12 let me guess they are lying? 13:10:24 https://p2pool.observer/transaction-lookup?txid=13a4c01c0d1e5f47ded3c23c160b4a09cf70536ec1e688b513d41aabd41e306d 13:10:29 Heres a much better one 13:10:30 "show all possible ring signature input" as long as there is still more than 1 possible, it's not broken 13:10:36 once again sorry if this stupid question im not that technical and just read reply on twitter and most are saying monero has been cracked 13:10:59 sech1 yes it just show all 16 13:11:04 lol 13:11:08 so it just shows the rings 13:11:39 yes but it has feature to label each ring so if you know one is yours then you can find the correct one. he said this super testnet in the video 13:11:49 So the crowd says Monero has been cracked, average IQ of the crowd is in low 60s 13:12:02 Yeah. Supertestnets explorer is either a troll job or iq of 60-80 13:12:22 Lmao, sech. Jinx 13:12:25 so explorer existed before his one like the p2pool you share? 13:12:32 the key point is "if you know one is yours" 13:12:37 Yes 13:12:58 wow so much misinformation on the twitter then ty for clearing up confusion sech1 and ofrnxmr 13:13:09 "Let's just arrest everybody we find to have done the transactions in the ring. We don't care is they're fake". 13:13:33 i was also thinking there was bounty for someone who can crack xmr right? 13:13:44 so if this guy really crack it why doesnt he claim this is why i didnt believe fully 13:13:49 also, everyone is so preoccupied with ring signatures, they didn't stop to think that there are also hidden amounts and stealth addresses which are waiting to be broken 13:14:09 over 600k usd. (they need to adjust for inflation. Cheap asses) 13:14:19 ring signatures is just one of the 3 privacy mechanisms in Monero 13:14:58 i wonder why him and some bitcoiner try to spread this fear about monero being cracked... 13:15:14 <0xfffc:monero.social> Politics? 13:15:17 finding out explorer already existed just debunk the whole thing 13:15:24 if this guy publishes something resembling a scientific paper describing how he can break ring signatures, then there will be something to talk about 13:15:52 sorry, but twitter videos and flashy block explorers don't cut it 13:16:00 <0xfffc:monero.social> If he publishes such paper, I expect he will be millionaires immediately. 13:16:01 but but but.. he made a blocm explorer from the 90s 13:16:07 Cant we give him some credit? 13:16:11 yes but it go back to monero being so small. its 2b marketcap. if its cracked then why waste all this effort it really dont make sense to me 13:16:33 600k, 0xfffc. government is cheap 13:16:36 if your bitcoiner worry about your coin supposed to be worth 1 trillion not monero 13:16:47 ring signatures do have some weaknesses, like black marble attack 13:16:51 <0xfffc:monero.social> I would give him debit 😉 13:16:52 Bcuz its really more like 20b 13:17:03 sech1 but fcmp will get rid of this 13:17:06 Dont believe the bs numbers you see on coingecko 13:17:07 and there are some statistical attacks on them 13:17:27 but it's all probabilistic, there is no attack that says "these 15 out of 16 rings are fake, and this one is real" 13:17:42 conveniently fcmp was not mentioned that will render all this useless 13:17:43 fcmp will replace ring signatures, yes 13:17:49 If im government, im just telling exchanges to lie about price, and close withdrawals while we trade fake xmr 13:18:36 I run a lemonade stand and sell lemonade for 10c a cup. 13:18:37 no you cant drink it. 13:18:41 one more weakness, is when someone is combining a lot of their old inputs in a single transaction 13:18:51 then ring signatures don't do much to hide the real inputs 13:18:57 I just need you to sell lemonade at 9c a cup so i can buy it from you 13:19:07 example: https://p2pool.observer/sweeps 13:19:15 but you still have hidden amount and address 13:19:19