05:42:50 ty very fair point. for a) any cbdc that is completely private is no go. whales the biggest ive encountered and who have big influence all dont like transparent blockchains. some of them big in defi and they dont like having whale alert or people tracking their funds all the time so i dont think usdt will work. cbdc would have to be private 05:43:00 ty very fair point. for a) any cbdc that is completely public is no go. whales the biggest ive encountered and who have big influence all dont like transparent blockchains. some of them big in defi and they dont like having whale alert or people tracking their funds all the time so i dont think usdt will work. cbdc would have to be private 05:45:20 bitcoiner notoriously bad at economic. satoshi left because it was pet project and people adopting too early. deflationary is not good and already demonstrate in great depression when you incentivize people to not spend it hurt the economy. monero is not inflationary when we take limit to infinity because the emission are constant 0.6 and linear which will get smaller and smaller 05:45:21 as supply gets bigger 05:45:46 inflation rate is what matter most and this effectively 0 for monero 05:47:25 What makes it zero with a tail emission? People accidentally losing their coins? 05:52:56 no. its very close to 0 so small it basically 0 because it asymptotically approaches 0 as the supply keep getting bigger: 05:52:57 monero is 0.6 xmr/block. this is 750 xmr per year. to make it simple let us assume xmr start at supply of 0 05:52:59 0th year: 0 05:53:01 1st year: 750 (inflation rate is infinite) 05:53:03 2nd year: 1500 (inflation rate is 100%) 05:53:05 3rd year: 2250 (inflation rate is 50%) 05:53:07 4th year: 3000 (inflation rate is 33%) 05:53:09 ... 05:53:11 100th year: 75000 (inflation rate is 0.01%) 05:53:13 as the supply gets bigger and bigger, inflation is constant and it therefore becomes smaller and smaller over time. if we take limit of this and go to infinity, it basically goes to 0. for example the 100th year tail emission would be 0.01% in this example which effectively 0 if makes sense compared to previous year 05:53:15 What they will probably start doing is rolling out CBCD’s in the UK perhaps for the disgusting amount of people claiming welfare, instead of giving them cash, give them that shite. 😂 05:53:39 no. its very close to 0 so small it basically 0 because it asymptotically approaches 0 as the supply keep getting bigger: 05:53:41 monero is 0.6 xmr/block. this is 750 xmr per year. to make it simple let us assume xmr start at supply of 0 05:53:43 0th year: 0 05:53:45 1st year: 750 (inflation rate is infinite) 05:53:47 2nd year: 1500 (inflation rate is 100%) 05:53:49 3rd year: 2250 (inflation rate is 50%) 05:53:51 4th year: 3000 (inflation rate is 33%) 05:53:53 ... 05:53:55 100th year: 75000 (inflation rate is 1%) 05:53:57 as the supply gets bigger and bigger, inflation is constant and it therefore becomes smaller and smaller over time. if we take limit of this and go to infinity, it basically goes to 0. for example the 100th year tail emission would be 1% in this example which effectively 0 if makes sense compared to previous year 05:54:12 the supply of xmr is much bigger than example i give so rate is lower but i use small number because its easier to understand 05:55:24 The concern I have is I think the block halving happened too quickly, loads of people don’t mind now unless you’re like me who doesn’t care about the electricity cost 05:55:43 The concern I have is I think the block halving happened too quickly, loads of people don’t mine now unless you’re like me who doesn’t care about the electricity cost 05:56:10 greshams law. if we have good and shit currency, people more likely to use shit currency and hoard the good. xmr will be hoard and people will likely comply and use cbdc if its kinda private 05:56:33 is this for btc? 06:00:13 I think a tail emission is actually a good thing, even with it, it’s doesn’t necessarily make Monero a depreciating asset but definetely supports the network you can bet people lose coins, and you can bet more people want privacy. 06:00:15 That’s 100% going to happen with BTC yes, but I think in this case you’ll always have the big whales who will keep the infrastructure up and running. Monero, idk, I am betting my life on it thought :) 06:00:17 I really don’t think governments will adopt CBDC fork of Monero lol 06:01:32 it doesnt have to be monero but i think cdbc by governments is going to have privacy 06:01:53 Eventually you’ll lose decentralisation with BTC, and when all coins have been mined it’s a good as proof of stake until all bitcoins are lost over the next 1000-2000 years. 06:02:37 Well, that’s if quantum doesn’t come sooner 06:02:41 :P 06:05:14 big whales who will keep the infrastructure up and running 06:05:15 not for long. mining companies have report big losses recently like riot loss 84m, core scientific lost 800m, marathon loss 199m and these big miners contribute most of hash on btc network with their asic farm. interest rate environment very high so these companies likely default soon if they dont come up with profit. btc has to double in price for each halving for it miner revenu 06:05:17 e to be kinda stable. this is not possible and the marketcap shows how overinflated and soon it will collapse. no one uses bitcoin for transactions because its fees are too expensive and lightning is shit 06:23:43 that not to say the price cant still go up. i still trade on the stupidity of other. i think with btc etf we will see it run up as institution adopt it without understanding nothing like what happened in 2008 when hedge fund finally realized MBS were not safe at all because of how the ratings were not done properly. it will take long time for market to realize this because greed is powerful 06:25:45 that not to say the price cant still go up. i still trade on the stupidity of other. i think with btc etf we will see it run up as institution adopt it without understanding nothing like what happened in 2008 when hedge fund finally realized subprime MBS were not safe at all because of how the ratings were not done properly. it will take some time for market to realize this becaus 06:25:45 e greed is powerful 07:56:40 i just realize my xmr yearly emission calculation is wrong (not 750) but my point is still correct about inflation rate decreasing 08:06:07 It’s 432/day so 157,680/yr 08:10:22 does anyone know what happen to daniel kim? 08:17:07 most talks are old from him. looking for new ones created recently but dont know if he still in monero? 09:49:10 Sa 12:32:46 very interesting observation. ever since binance delisting in feb, the pearson correlation between btc and xmr have decreased substantially past 360d. currently around 0.3 which is weak positive correlation so if btc go up, xmr follows only slightly. most amazing would be if the correlation is negative meaning xmr go up btc go down and i hope this eventually happens before btc blows 12:32:48 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/mcRUTNmVDNrfdHXeNqaWBshT 12:36:32 here is btc and eth in comparison. around 0.8 instead suggest strong positive correlation between two 12:36:34 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/ubNtCUcrSrSAWaZKgrFzgnES 12:40:44 sorry if this is in wrong channel btw and pls direct me to other channel where appropriate if its not here. i know monero community dont really like discuss price stuff 12:41:38 there's https://matrix.to/#/#monero-markets:monero.social if you're into price 12:42:33 also hoping xmr stops being correlated to btc 12:42:46 There is also this if Reddit is no problem: https://old.reddit.com/r/xmrtrader/ 12:43:02 yes i dont actually care about the price only correlation. xmr needs to stop following btc 12:43:25 reddit i dont like 13:23:35 Ау 13:53:27 crypto will always follow the one's with the greatest market capitalization, but considering all, Monero is pretty stable still. 13:54:37 maybe becouse it is used for actual trading rather than investing by most 13:54:43 *because 13:54:45 the greatest market capitalization will fall to 0 one day. if monero continuing following, so will it. we need it to stop 13:55:54 why would BTC Prices drop to 0? I personally hold over half in BTC, just becouse of it's market cap 13:55:57 *because 13:56:35 there are many many reasons and if i go into detail it will flood this chat. i keep it simple. do you know howard chu? 13:57:06 I don't 13:58:20 he created randomx for monero and is extremely smart. this is what he has to say about bitcoin: 13:58:21 https://mastodon.social/@hyc/112927300931600663 13:58:23 this is one of the reason why it will fail. there are many more ofc but i think this is solid one 14:01:34 he talks about incentivers to attack. Most people only demand 1 confirmation, since that is already pretty safe. Attacking a POW-coin like BTC would require a massive amount of ASICs and would be a multitude more difficult than attacking Moneros 2,5GHs Nethash 14:01:36 Considering the halvings of the past, there were no disasterious effects as well 14:02:01 what is the marketcap of bitcoin rn 14:02:10 I do believe BTC is pretty safe form network attacks. As is Monero. Or even POS coins with enough capitalization 14:02:16 let me look 14:02:51 around one trillion eur 14:03:35 ok i deal with usd and its 1.19t. after the 2024 halving, btc need to go to 2.38t so miners break even and earn the same as they did before it 14:03:55 then next halving, 4.76t 14:04:01 next 9.52t 14:04:15 thats almost the marketcap of gold. sorry but no matter what you think of btc that is ridiculous 14:04:17 you mix up market capitalization and market prices 14:04:38 next 9.52t after that 19t 14:04:52 as the supply gets lower, the prices go up without necessarily incrasing the market cap in the same way 14:06:01 the supply isnt going lower. its going higher 14:06:06 until 21m 14:06:14 you mean the rate of inflation is lower? 14:06:17 yeah but at a slower rate 14:06:32 yes 14:06:55 but the supply is still increasing...this means the price goes lower if no new unsuspecting victims buy 14:07:45 monero has the same thing but compared to bitcoin its actually used 14:08:01 every currency has an increasing supply or some sort of inltaion, that isn't necessarily bad if you want that currency to be actually used. As for BTC, the rate of extra supply drops and will eventually end 14:08:31 yeah, I'd love to have monero have the market capitalization that BTC has, don't get me wrong 14:08:55 i dont care about mcap of xmr. i dont care about its price as long as its relatively stable and doesnt dump with btc when it goes to 0 14:10:39 yeah we'll see when that happens. but being actually used is a good sign of stability. If you check market cap / trx ratio, monero does pretty well 14:11:25 though moainly used for chainhopping 14:11:36 126.83B of btc is held in IBIT etf. bitcoin, "a purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution." directly from the whitepaper and 10% of the mcap is being held by one financial institution 14:11:47 *mainly 14:12:14 worse, aren't most of the bitcoins in ETFs held by coinbase? 14:12:16 i dont know to me bitcoin is so retarded my head hurt people actually put money into it. maybe because i know btc from 2013 since then and im old 14:12:56 so, they hold 10% of the market cap. they can use taht to influence prices, but have 0 interst in lowering them. It has no negative impact on network security 14:13:01 dont get me wrong i still trade btc and eth made lots of money. but i dont think of it more as just ponzi 14:13:34 I get most of my payments in BTC and choose only to exchange 35% or so in XMR 14:13:53 or at least go through XMR once before I cash it out 14:13:58 the security goes back to the marketcap i mentioned before. for the price to sustain itself it must continue doubling and its getting more and more impossible 14:14:08 but I'm not a trader 14:14:09 even with the supply thing you mentioned 14:14:27 fiat is better than btc 14:14:35 as bad as it is 14:15:25 if you're running alighting node it's actually not that bad, but as a layer 1 solution there are better alternatives. It's only real asset is the market cap 14:16:50 lightning completely failed and its barely used there are multiple giftcard vendors with stats that prove no one uses it. eth l2 has been more sucessful 14:17:55 i respect bitcoin. it started cryptocurrency and is amazing but its old and useless other than for speculation that will not last. technology evolves 14:18:18 I use it regularly and it works for me. at least it's more privacy and faster transaction times 14:18:23 but to each his own 14:18:33 lightning has no privacy 14:18:48 it has an illusion of privacy but no real privacy 14:18:55 when arbitration happens it is still public, but only the arbitration 14:19:13 I agree that Monero has better privacy though, of course 14:19:52 I thought with BTC it is mostly inertia. "Oh this was the currency Silk Road used!" 14:19:55 that's why I at least go through XMR, as BTC is also just far more adopted 14:20:42 I bet a lot of ppl regret getting that 5 grams of hash for 0.3 btc 14:21:00 you should see hype bitcoin had for silkroad and when it got accepted for wikileaks. back then grassroots community felt like monero. now its all snakes who hodl for more money and scam each other. great fall 14:21:44 Everyone's free to choose. I use XMR whenever possible for actual trades 14:21:58 satoshi left because his experiment got adopted before it was ready. he was scared of the reprecussion especially after glowies had their sight on btc after wikileaks incident 14:22:18 i agree. free market. choose whatever you want. im just making my opinion known and it could be wrong who knows 14:23:09 sure. I do hope for a wider adoption of XMR and a higher market cap, but so far I've been good using it to trade 14:23:39 sofabox, ye, exactly. And I am not tied to Monero specifically too - I don't deny that there may be a successr to it that is better, maybe a non-blockchain one... 14:23:40 I can't change tha fact that BTC is more accepted. As is MS-Windows in comparison to UNIX 14:23:51 those are just facts one has to live with 14:24:17 I have only used XMR so far because that's what I buy for cash, and because the fees are small. 14:24:49 BlueyHealer neither am i and i understand that technology changes. like you if something better comes i wont be afraid to use. ive tried lightning, eth l2, solana, everything and all of its shit same ponzi imo 14:24:56 The area where I wish there was more XMR adoption is for sure domain registrars. 14:25:14 Like, I wanted to go with Porkbun, but they only accept BTC/LTC. 14:25:42 Maybe I will, but by inputting the registrar's payment address at a swap service. 14:25:51 At least swaps are hassle-free. 14:26:09 how do eth l2's work? 14:26:25 I have NEVER seen solana accepted, lol. 14:26:36 btc is not accepted more. darknet markets have abandoned it completely. i do agree btc more known and synonymous with crypto. i remember microsoft and steam once accepted btc, quickly remove it after no one used it and was hard to maintain. it has failed real adoption but hodl culture has remain 14:27:22 depend on which l2. there are op stack and zk for example. each has its own tech. i recommend research because its hard to summarize here 14:27:54 eth still shit scam but the l2 reduce fees and make it much faster. still shit 14:28:31 sofabox, I know about the dark markets embracing Monero (although even that seems not to be universal, even if lack of XMR is clowned on). I was talking about legitimate businesses, which is what I use myself. 14:29:02 I try searching but it looks like they're all companies with fancy web design, marketing rather than explaining how the tech works 14:29:12 yes i refer to darknet because criminals are always early adopter of new technology. mobs were first to adopt telephones and had their own lines setup 14:29:14 god I wish I could fill Steam with Monero, that is so much easier than through a middleman! And middlemen have unfair fees too... 14:29:30 welcome to eth. everything behind company and vc 14:29:56 it's pretty easy to get steam vouchers for crypto, and if XMR is not accepted, just use a swap 14:29:59 sofabox, yea, I know. I just don't have firsthand experience with DNMs. But it is cool how adaptable they are indeed. 14:30:02 "When privacy will be outlawed, only outlaws will have privacy" - Phil Zimmermann 14:30:04 Which legitimate business wants to accept xmr ? When noobs have a hard time acquiring or using xmr 14:30:29 phoreskin, not seen that! I wonder if they have region restrictions... 14:30:35 vpns, domain hosters, and giftcards. mostly online services 14:31:06 I am just afraid of getting scammed - but crypto would make it better because I am hesitant to give randos my card information. 14:31:19 i dont think xmr will ever be outlawed. government will eventually allow it. they are not shadowy mob and i trust people will fight for their rights 14:31:45 dave.jp, surprisingly, VPSes for XMR are not that uncommon, even if more expensive than ones paid by card. 14:31:46 what region do you need? 14:31:50 I'm sure msot are covered 14:31:55 They are already accepting it 14:32:04 I don't care about "outlawing" it nationally at all, not that I see this coming... 14:32:15 unless, put tinfoil hat, btc going to 0 will start the next great recession. crypto will be hated. cbdc put into place after crypto render scam 14:32:29 They are uncommon compared to just buying with paypal or cards 14:33:27 Until it’s easy for users, those users won’t push vendors to accept xmr 14:33:45 LWS might help, god knows when it goes mainstream 14:34:05 just get a VCC and a PayPal then... 14:34:21 did you see what i sent into monero markets. that is what we need for mainstream whether you like or not 14:34:25 Too many extra steps 14:34:41 That’s a niche 14:35:08 niche worth 60b 14:35:19 They are uncommon compared to just buying with paypal or cards <- I know, and the prices are higher. What I meant is that there is still a relative variety. 14:35:29 LWS? 14:35:54 lets be real, there's using crypto for it's use case and fiat for the rest. at some point, just exchange and you're set 14:35:57 https://github.com/vtnerd/monero-lws 14:36:02 To be fair, I guess most of the 60b are people speculating, not actual users. 14:36:21 in the case of sol most are retail gambling on memecoins 14:36:26 I use crypto for things I cannot use my card for - foreign digital services. 14:36:28 because its so easy now 14:36:50 so do I. But eventually I cash out what I need for a living 14:37:07 after that I can get steam or whatever the hell I want without looking for XMR accpetance 14:37:13 btc good for this 14:37:16 cashing out 14:37:50 I use cash in my daily life. 14:37:51 doesn't matter really 14:38:03 Explains xmrbtc chart 14:38:06 as long as you went through monero 14:38:14 I wish I could use XMR for Steam - because my card is NOT accepted directly, because sanctions. 14:38:38 Washing machine, a tool, not a currency 14:38:39 That is why I have crypto at all. But even when this is all over, I think I would be sticking to Monero when possible. 14:38:46 I wouldn't use coinjoin though, as some exchanges won't accept those coins... fungibility and all 14:39:22 but for the last 3 years I am cashing out directly through monero 14:39:25 monero flagged as sus and cex will close your account if you deposit it 14:39:30 for me 14:39:33 thats been my experience 14:39:59 hm, I use exchanges that list monero, so ofc it's not flagged 14:40:23 also I got some cards I can load cash via ETH or BTC, so I just use a non-KYC exchange for those 14:40:29 pretty hassle free 14:40:31 i swapped some eth to xmr then deposit to kucoin 1 xmr. instant closed account and need kyc, video of myself, and report of where money came from as proof 14:40:38 for 1 xmr 14:40:40 I wouldnt look for a 50 bucks voucher or sth 14:40:56 I don't use CEX because they would require a full KYC :( 14:41:00 yeah you are using shit exchanges then 14:41:20 happened to me in the past with coinjoined xmr using wasabio 14:41:22 *wasabi 14:41:28 coinjoined BTC ofc 14:41:33 from that day forward i never use cex again 14:41:45 whales on eth who have 15m+ they dont ever trust cex why should i 14:42:09 kucoin says they have 10m xmr, but block you from depositing 1? 14:42:22 scam exchange 14:42:29 yes they said its suspicious and require kyc 14:42:31 I bet it's just normal KYC-procedure.. 14:42:35