01:15:26 <sneurlax> any tips for Trezor Model T usage in general? ubuntu 20.04 is hanging, is there a better ver?
01:17:06 <sneurlax> and while we're here I guess I should go through the process for ledger nano s at least ... any other recommended hw wallets out there? anything diyable like on a pi or etc?
01:17:44 <sneurlax> the gui* is hanging on 20.04, need to use monero-wallet-cli which i used to use with success
01:21:56 <sneurlax> bah, > Error: failed to generate new wallet: Device connect failed, gotta troubleshoot.  but I used to used a Model One vs the Model T I'm using now ... seems Safes are supported, guess it's on to the Nano S which has also worked in the past, any and all tips welcomed and appreciated
01:22:08 <sneurlax> in fact ill tip for working tips, scout's honor
01:22:27 <sneurlax> this is your once in a lifetime chance to be a PAID sneurlax intern.
01:56:16 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/SxzRefqVFRZRXtEpLMVuEtcI
01:56:18 <m-relay> <a​nhdres:matrix.org> Soon™ is Now! Sidekick is officially out in the wild and ready to join you on your private crypto adventures. Go find your forgotten older phone and visit sidekick.monerujo.app for all the info. 🔐📱📲💸
01:57:08 <sneurlax> ok, cool
02:01:10 <sneurlax> definitly worth a tip
02:02:45 <sneurlax> @a​nhdres:matrix.org: I used to use monerujo with a trezor model one, would it work with a model t?
02:29:41 <wasDay> Hello monero group, my goal is to do some xmr -> usd or khr in cambodia. I'm aware of changenow.io for xmr -> btc and then local exchanges for btc -> usd. I have two questions for the group: 1) is changenow.io the most private and cheapest for xmr -> btc ? and 2) for cambodia, does anyone know of a direct xmr -> usd (khr) providing the same kind of privacy and best rates?
02:50:48 <m-relay> <m​odul8:matrix.org> have you looked into haveno-reto.com? its a computer application you install not a website. There hasnt been any cambodia/kh trades so far so you may need to go to your usual cambodia crypto hangouts and tell them about it.
02:51:42 <wasDay> Is haveno-reto similar to bisq?
02:53:03 <m-relay> <m​odul8:matrix.org> yes similar to bisq1, it uses monero for the base currency which is improves privacy and fees.
02:55:49 <wasDay> I'll check it out, thanks!
10:06:17 <orbifx> he is gone already .. Does changenow have KYC?
10:10:24 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yep
10:11:03 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> it was on the leaked chainalysis video btw, as one of the most popular "subphoenable entities" lol
10:11:14 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> it was on the leaked chainalysis video btw, as one of the most popular "subphoenable entities" that cooperates with their demands lol
10:13:24 <k4r4b3y> https://vimeo.com/1009284260
10:38:57 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> They run kyc on flagged addresses / outputs, and also often share data with fbi
10:39:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> They do work over tor tho
10:44:33 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yeah but it doesnt matter if you use tor or not if you're forced to KYC yourself in the end
10:45:23 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yeah but it doesnt matter if you use tor or not if you're forced to KYC yourself in the end (selfies ID card + facial recognition type of KYC)
10:48:29 <k4r4b3y> I am not defending the KYC stuff, but imo, selfie ID card + facial recognition stuff is getting more and more dodge-able nowadays
10:49:09 <k4r4b3y> You can find the KYC dataleaks online.  These data generally contain some suckers holding their ID cards and taking a selfie.
10:49:20 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> not if you don't log in
10:49:31 <k4r4b3y> Now, you can put that face into your own face, with some pretty accessible open source AI tools today.
10:50:19 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> they would be able to show where the btc went and a xmr return wallet address to loe
10:50:28 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> and an amount
10:50:48 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> and an amount with a time stamp
10:51:06 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> so for atomic swaps, no kyc
10:51:55 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> they would be able to show where the btc went and a xmr return wallet address to leo
10:52:50 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> so step one xmr -> btc no kyc
10:55:32 <m-relay> <m​odul8:matrix.org> i guess the problem with btc is that it will be used to trace but it will not be disclosed. oh yeah we found out because x did x. but really btc gave them the clue where to look.
10:55:41 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> yea im not recommending doing that lol, to stay on the legal side. i'd rather just not use those services that force KYC procedures
10:58:50 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> just glad Russia officially recognized crypto as legit....now how am I gonna get a rubles account?
11:00:31 <BlueyHealer> ruxmr, as far as I know, it is still not legal tender though, maybe I missed some news, but IIRC it would still not be legal to accept payment in XMR.
11:01:21 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> legal tender and the ability to spend it legally are two different things
11:02:10 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> for instance, if you are a Nepali citizen, all crypto is illegal, even if you live in El Salvador or Ghana
11:02:32 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> and as a Nepali, the Nepali government will arrest you once you return home
11:02:45 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> in russia that's not the case at all
11:03:50 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> so yeah, I could spend my xmr in russia for x, y, or z and not be arrested for it
11:04:04 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> not the same thing as legal tender but spendable
11:06:00 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> El Salvador and Ghana now, one crypt is legal tender
11:06:13 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> El Salvador and Ghana now, one crypto is legal tender
11:10:16 <BlueyHealer> Ah. Yeah, it is indeed an *asset*.
11:10:44 <BlueyHealer> It would not be legal to accept XMR for services, for example, if I am not confusing anything.
11:11:26 <BlueyHealer> Also, why do you want a ruble account? Everything official there is KYC, and everything's cut off from Swift... This is literally the only reason I have crypto at all!
11:12:57 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> the whole world no longer kowtows to the US's banking laws....the move against Russia's financial assets was the biggest mistake the US has ever made... Now many countries no longer really care about the little treaties they signed and no longer really care to enforce them.  Making all Russian citizens penniless over night was extraordinarily ignorant
11:13:12 <BlueyHealer> It can be excused as "panic savings" in case of questions, which is kinda true lol
11:13:33 <BlueyHealer> Penniless? idk, you are overexaggerating.
11:13:50 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> No BlueyHealer you've got the wrong tree
11:14:12 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> and no I am not. find some expat Russians and asked what happened to their access to monies
11:14:38 <m-relay> <r​uxmr:monero.social> Have a good day/night
11:17:35 <BlueyHealer> Ah, you meant in the foreign institutions. Yeah, there are a lot of places people have been robbed. I cannot be angry because it is something expected and natural.
12:41:40 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/ae4641a9c54d40f305e2dd714ad2aa1bd22839e71838559417507774464
12:42:04 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> whats this , techleaks creating the Fud again.
12:42:32 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> its the dero retard
12:42:54 <k4r4b3y> why would anyone listen to that dude is beyond me
12:43:14 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> hmm , trying to take some revenge i guess
12:43:30 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> yeah , somehow its popping up in news feed
12:44:12 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> some guys in other groups linked me to it and talked negatively about monero encryption
12:45:03 <k4r4b3y> people talk shit
12:45:13 <m-relay> <t​sjk:bitcoinist.org> Isn't it strange that they want to join a tg group for an explanation? tg of all platforms (!).
12:45:20 <BlueyHealer> Bruh, at least use a messenger you can interact with anonymously!!
12:47:31 <m-relay> <t​sjk:bitcoinist.org> s/they want to/they want you to/
12:49:25 <remiliascarlet> orbifx: ChangeNow doesn't use KYC, at least, not for any of the crypto to crypto swaps.
12:50:05 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> he's just shitposting at this point lol
12:50:47 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> https://t.me/techleaks24/28
12:50:52 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> yes
12:51:12 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> the techleaks meme was funny a few weeks ago, its outdated now
12:51:23 <k4r4b3y> his bag status?
12:55:24 <BlueyHealer> Oh, wait, was the messenger choice a KYC attempt? Nice try.
12:57:59 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> dude just begs Dero devs and AI for info about KEY IMAGES
12:59:28 <k4r4b3y> "immana un-earth the infinite nero glitch real quic!!"
13:01:31 <m-relay> <d​etherminal:monero.social> Stop feeding this troll, just block him.
13:02:06 <remiliascarlet> I really hope the AI fad fades away sooner than I expect it to. Because AI is the reason why so many company services get enshittified, it's getting more and more impossible to get customer support that can actually solve problems, and refunds take forever to get processed, because the AI can't manage to add authorization to the transaction that allows the bank to refund me way sooner.
13:05:19 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> i am not following him it just popped up on the monero cmc page
13:05:31 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> .
13:06:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Binance fud
13:06:15 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Probably still have a short opened somewhere
13:06:34 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> (Cmc is binance, isnt it)
13:06:51 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> yeah , donno why its tumbling
13:06:56 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> markets are positive
13:07:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> they post techleaks bot not ofrnxmr? Fuddd
13:13:01 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> what is he trying to prove ?
13:13:26 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> how are monero transactions traceable ?
13:14:32 <k4r4b3y> @kevino:tchncs.de see this: https://vimeo.com/1009284260
13:14:55 <k4r4b3y> Monero transactions are not deterministically traceable.  They are probabilistically traceable in certain situations.
13:16:03 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> ok
13:16:35 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> whats the "key images" he is talking about
13:16:36 <k4r4b3y> With the FCMP++ upgrade, we hope that the spectrum of such certain situations get narrower and narrower.
13:16:54 <k4r4b3y> I have no idea, nor have I the curiosity to lend him an ear.
13:17:09 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> hmm
13:17:12 <k4r4b3y> All I know is that he have an axe to grind with XMR community, and that colors his arguments.
13:17:25 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> hmm
13:17:51 <k4r4b3y> I can't consider him coming from a place of good faith for this reason.  And also for this reason I don't have time to waste with his probably disingeniuous argumentation efforts.
13:17:52 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> he tweets like insane 😂
13:18:05 <k4r4b3y> ignore
13:18:13 <k4r4b3y> tweeting like insane is not a feat
13:18:20 <k4r4b3y> any unhinged idiot tweets like insane
13:18:40 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> as if the whole xmr market will collapse on his stupid post
13:19:20 <m-relay> <k​evino:tchncs.de> i think cointelegraph is the culprit who started with the FUD
13:19:44 <k4r4b3y> so what.. just ignore and keep building.
13:24:53 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> he's had a hate boner on monero ever since luke uncovered that dero flaw lol
13:26:05 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Uncovered?
13:26:42 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Someone posted a video of almost the entire dero chain (incku capn's) transactions being revealed
13:27:23 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> https://gist.github.com/kayabaNerve/b754e9ed9fa4cc2c607f38a83aa3df2a that one btw
13:27:32 <m-relay> <n​ihilist:nowhere.moe> https://gist.github.com/kayabaNerve/b754e9ed9fa4cc2c607f38a83aa3df2a that one btw (if people missed it)
13:30:05 <k4r4b3y> who tf calls himself "captain" unironically
13:30:12 <k4r4b3y> "okay chief"
13:30:20 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> very cringe yes
13:39:57 <m-relay> <n​ononynous:monero.social> Stealth addresses collected onchain to make a ringsignature
13:41:45 <m-relay> <n​ononynous:monero.social> What I dont understand is if theres "no key image on dero haha", then why tf is ringsig is used and how the hell do you audit transactions
13:42:05 <k4r4b3y> just trust the capn bro
13:42:57 <m-relay> <n​ononynous:monero.social> They claims to use accounting model to avoid UTXO privacy flaws but I'm too much dumb to understand how they'd manage to update balances and doing ring signatures with that
13:44:06 <m-relay> <n​ononynous:monero.social> Also kayaba told accounting model for ringsignatures could be potentially worse
13:50:02 <ofrnxmr> Just trust the capn
13:50:19 <ofrnxmr> He's on a 40wk vacation
13:52:24 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Good commentary by rbrunner on the "key images" claims by techleaks: https://reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1fh92ee/skepticism_sunday_september_15_2024/lna087t/
13:54:56 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Just old wine in new bottles. Are black marbles and EAE-like attacks a problem for the ring signature privacy model? Yes. Is this new? No. It's as old as the first Monero Research Lab bulletin, published ten years ago: https://www.getmonero.org/resources/research-lab/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
13:56:50 <m-relay> <r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes, account model for ring signatures is probably worse since it's much easier to see repeat usage patterns tied to a specific user. I haven't done a formal analysis.
14:04:03 <m-relay> <f​ede:xmr.mx> afaik account model can reduce number of inputs in transactions => smaller TX size, but it definitely isn't more private
14:04:39 <BlueyHealer> k4r4b3y | who tf calls himself "captain" unironically <- I mean, my old childhood nick used to be Captain Underpants)
14:04:57 <k4r4b3y> spongebob and the captain
14:05:44 <m-relay> <f​ede:xmr.mx> by the way, isn't Dero abandoned? Why everyone talking about it? just move on
14:05:59 <k4r4b3y> soycial media drama
14:06:43 <m-relay> <f​ede:xmr.mx> last commit 7 months ago
14:07:17 <m-relay> <f​ede:xmr.mx> ig not even dero devs care about this drama, they're probs enjoying life in Dubai by now
14:07:29 <k4r4b3y> based
14:07:36 <k4r4b3y> that's what its about
14:33:23 <ofrnxmr> "dero devs"
14:33:33 <ofrnxmr> Theres 2. Selix and capn
14:33:50 <ofrnxmr> Selix launched their own crypto called xelis
14:35:11 <k4r4b3y> the rug must go on
15:11:21 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> Speaking of which
15:11:23 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> Tari just invented a brand new crypto technology: decentralized pre-mining
15:14:00 <nioCat> I hear that Tari will be released by EOY 2020
15:16:12 <plowsof> 🧦
15:17:14 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> Tbh I used to be kinda excited abt Tari
15:17:15 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> And then 6 months passed
15:17:17 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> And then 6 months passed
15:17:19 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> And then 6 months passed
15:17:21 <m-relay> <p​reland:monero.social> And then
15:34:03 <m-relay> <q​uickex:matrix.org> Hey guys, Quickex launched new giveaway, you just need to rate our new design. Will appreciate your honest opinion!
15:34:05 <m-relay> <q​uickex:matrix.org> https://t.me/Quickex_en/532
15:42:47 <remiliascarlet> I always found Dero to be suspicious. Even the name, which in Japanese would translate to "get the fuck out".
15:50:09 <sech1> How to lose an entire market by choosing a wrong name
18:02:45 <geonic> or the wrong cryptography
18:10:52 <m-relay> <f​lidgrix:matrix.org> check this tool out guys https://github.com/umutcamliyurt/MoneroMine2Pay
18:11:04 <m-relay> <f​lidgrix:matrix.org> it works similiar to primo
18:12:19 <BlueyHealer> What Luke?
18:12:44 <m-relay> <f​lidgrix:matrix.org> it mines monero to get password from server
18:12:51 <m-relay> <f​lidgrix:matrix.org> proof of work system
19:22:01 <orbifx> remiliascarlet, thanks
19:46:41 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> Should just work with Feather
19:47:03 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> Keep in mind though that Model T has no secure element and hence you need to keep it physically secure. Model 5 is better there.
19:51:30 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Isn't that Trezor One? Isn't the T the newer one that does have a secure element?
20:01:35 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> nah, T is old
20:23:42 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> Trezor 3 and 5 have secure elements
20:26:10 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Hmmm.
20:26:36 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> I need to fact check this. I'm sure One is no element and T is relatively new...
20:26:37 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Then there is 5 or whatever that is the latest.
20:26:54 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> 3 and 5 are new, One and T are old
20:27:43 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> They even removed T entirely from their store: https://trezor.io/compare
20:29:17 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> https://www.reddit.com/r/TREZOR/comments/1763eeb/is_trezor_safe_3_more_secure_than_model_t/
20:29:26 <m-relay> <r​ottenwheel:kernal.eu> Ya.
20:29:59 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> Still weird to me that 3 gets an OLED but 5 LCD 😉
20:30:49 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> I still wonder if OLED is a security risk: Your seed phrase is shown for quite a while when you write it down. Can it burn in? Probably not, but maybe with proper equipment you could reconstruct it?
20:32:31 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> They might've added in to the 3 for the hype but then rolled back to LCD for the 5 since OLED doesn't last as long and is pricier
20:45:46 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> imo
20:46:07 <m-relay> <m​onerobull:matrix.org> if someone can get your hww they can get your seed backups
20:53:23 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> Only if you store your seed next to your hw wawllet 😉
20:53:25 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> Only if you store your seed next to your hw wallet 😉
20:56:29 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Afaik, Only time it did append was a bug in old trezor software (rebooting the thing constatantly allowed to recover the seed). That bug has been fixed.
21:37:49 <m-relay> <j​s:nil.im> That also shouldn't happen anymore with the secure element, I suppose
22:51:58 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Would anyone who is interested in the Haveno project like to come over to the channel an help me test out the MacOS or Windows installation installers? They are in alpha now and are working great on my Mac, and Windows, also on VirtualBox. My goal is to find edge cases now so on release in ~2 weeks there is less of a riot! Thanks ! I'm happy to reward with some XMR if you end up s<clipped message>
22:51:59 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> pending a lot of time with me, or if you don't mind helping open source projects thats fine too! You don't need to be an expert to help.
22:53:28 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Just 1 or 2 people is fine for now, preferable if you're using a slightly less modern PC not like an M chip on macs, but the macs prior to that.
23:29:43 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> Anyone else's node using a really high amount of RAM rn? Mine's at 13GB
23:48:38 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> i'll check
23:52:04 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/UfCjPHQTjkAFjDGelfurVQFz
23:52:07 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> nope
23:52:09 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Isnt normal, for it to eat most of the free ram?
23:52:11 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> I have a node with 64GB allocated for Monero, and there is about 10GB free (It would brobably be using it all if I did not reboot it last week)
23:52:27 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Most of it seam to be data.mdb cache
23:52:59 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, it's all cache
23:53:01 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/uZxywosJCwqLGQQCjSsTQViU
23:53:31 <m-relay> <r​avfx:xmr.mx> If you need the memory for something else, the OS will dump a chunk of it, no problem