00:17:25 This is wrong, I2P's HTTP proxy handles useragents and much more 00:20:35 TCP tunnel, http tunnels 00:22:24 That's because everyone knows the true and only browser worth using is Cromite 00:29:50 Because Java is memory safe and performant, the 2 most important qualities for an overlay network 00:32:14 performant.png 00:34:33 > *loOk guys my tcp socket in Java is memory safe!* 00:34:35 > \> JVM memory consumption: 800MB 00:34:48 Performant 😂 00:34:54 Java performant!!!!! 00:35:24 Meh, only if you use the right flags 00:35:34 Make the thing in C and it's like an order of magnitude more performant... or two 00:35:47 Which is exactly what I’m struggling with now 00:35:55 good luck 00:36:23 Thanks m8 00:36:49 ASM>C>RUST|C++>GO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JAVA 00:36:53 Because I have a high core count but low clock speed I have to set different flags for it to perform well than if it had a high clock count and low cores 00:37:06 I have more respect for C# than Java. 00:37:13 Me too 00:37:17 my men 00:37:34 C# code is compiled right... It use ton of dependencies (.net) but it run faster 00:38:05 i believe in you. and unironically wish you to resolve it that sounds tiresome 00:38:50 Do you think just using a lower-level language magically makes your software harder? 00:39:11 > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> ASM>C>RUST|C++>GO>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>JAVA 00:39:13 Do you think just using a lower-level language magically makes your software faster? That's not how it works... 00:39:40 And each part of a selenium grid has different purposes and utilities shit in all different ways like I need a specific 5ghz server for the load balancer which is actually overclocked 00:39:49 define harder? 00:39:51 Harder to develop or? I mean, the CPU is hard if you hit it, whatever you run java or c++ code on it, might break some pin if it have pins. 00:40:01 The less abstration the better 00:40:30 *faster, got autocorrected 00:40:53 > using a lower-level language magically makes your software faster 00:40:55 Have you ever heard of the story of *CPU Cache, the Aligned* ? 00:41:17 c++ or rust code are compiled into machine code that are executed by the CPU 00:41:19 Java get interpreted by the java interpreted (and that later is compiled to run on a CPU) but you have that interpretation step that divide the execution speed by 10 or something 00:41:21 ASM->C->Rust->Dart 00:41:23 but yeah anyway yes it makes it magically faster 00:41:27 c++ or rust code are compiled into machine code that are executed by the CPU 00:41:29 Java get interpreted by the java interpreter (and that later is compiled to run on a CPU) but you have that interpretation step that divide the execution speed by 10 or something 00:42:26 I've never used Dart but it sounds cool 00:42:33 at least I've never heard people crying about it 00:42:54 Both C and Java compilers handles this internally, abstracted away from the user 00:43:00 Today CPU are totally fine execute bloat and code abstracted by multiple abstration layer, but I still like tight and well optimised code that run directly on the CPU 00:43:21 Today CPU are totally fine executing bloat and code abstracted by multiple abstration layer, but I still like tight and well optimised code that run directly on the CPU 00:43:33 It’s great, it basically exists to replace JavaScript and Java 00:43:48 yk there is a difference between JIT and static compilation right? that the latter is better than the first because the first lacks crucial context right? 00:44:05 Compiled native too 00:44:15 Javascript was initially invented for the web, you know, you make shit that have to run on platform you won't know existed, it's great for that 00:44:17 lets go 00:44:22 perl? 00:44:48 Very few thingd on your computer runs "directly on the CPU", we're up here chilling in userspace 🙂 00:44:52 I know a guy who once made a Perl script 00:45:01 so cute 00:45:15 Not sure for what that one was for lol, it's old and slow.. I never made perl code, I only know one person (also older than me) that use it. 00:45:17 what a nice guy 00:45:38 Yeah not sure what he does now 00:45:49 I only used it once to get reverse shell 00:45:59 i think it summarize pretty well the state of the language 00:46:26 An application like Monero is compiled and run on the CPU without extra abstraction 00:46:53 Yeah, but it's negligible for most things 00:47:08 RavFX: enlight him 00:48:03 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/c-vs-java 00:48:13 there you 1+ order of magnitude 00:48:16 Do Dart vs Java 00:48:18 anyway, going to diner! 00:48:26 enjoy rav 00:48:35 https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/dart-vs-java 00:56:24 edigits is an interesting one 00:57:21 These are toy programs, what exactly are they indicative of? 00:57:23 I'll stick with the subject of I2P before we derail even further into holy language wars, so I'll challenge you to benchmark I2P against i2pd and share your findings 😉 00:58:25 pov: me when I try to benchmark an asynchronous p2p network program. 00:58:27 (difficulty: impossible) 00:59:19 *timeout* 00:59:38 * m-relay scheduler on standby 01:08:59 Personally I stick to the C++ implementation of i2p 01:09:01 Mainly because it's use less ressources thanks to using a lower level language 01:10:25 Personally I stick to the C++ implementation of i2p 01:10:27 Mainly because it's not maintained by a delusional and arrogant team. 01:10:53 (there is apparently some drama in-between the two team) 01:11:46 Obviously, it's to be expected 😂 01:12:19 If you make a thing and I make a thing that use 100x less ressources and run 10x faster you are going to be all over me 01:12:31 common sense 01:12:32 Why do you think they're delusional and arrogant? And what's this drama about? 01:12:34 If you make a thing and I make the same thing that use 100x less ressources and run 10x faster you are going to be all over me 01:13:48 But does it *really*? 🤔 01:14:23 https://www.reddit.com/r/i2pd/comments/112ybp8/very_unpleasant_truths_about_the_java_i2p_project/ 01:14:28 The code will definitively run a lot faster and use a lot less ressources. 01:14:29 Obviously it won't make the other nodes you talk to faster 01:17:10 also https://www.reddit.com/r/i2p/comments/72d6hd/i2pdmonerokovri_edrama_irc_logs/ 01:17:57 You're right network speed isn't different, and that's kind of my point... this bottlenecks every other performance metric 01:18:25 yes 01:18:28 except 01:18:32 memory consumption 01:19:03 Still use less CPU, and less memory by far. 01:19:03 So you have less of theses consumed by i2p, so it can be consumed by something else useful 01:19:05 Or you can put i2pd on a more crapier system and have the same network performance 01:19:07 As for resource (memory) usage it's really not that different, because what goes into an I2P(d) router's memory? 01:19:43 > So you have less of theses consumed by i2p, so it can be consumed by something else useful 01:19:45 Completely depends on the number of threads and operating system 01:19:58 RavFX: 01:20:19 its not guarantee as processes are interrupted on a time basis. 01:21:38 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/MFDzifHAUzdEjgZUYjXUjEer 01:21:43 Just found a random ressource benchmark! 01:22:15 These are blatantly fabricated and nothingburgers, respectively 01:22:39 probably 01:23:15 I2P devs are chill people, they help each other's implementations 01:24:18 No sorry I can't believe it. Humans being bros simply don't exist. What are you? some kind happy chappy? I hate people like you that are precious and optimistic. 01:24:37 \/s 01:27:23 This isn't even a benchmark, it's just a "source: trust me" 01:27:25 I can't even do that after this guy said floodfilling didn't affect network performance 01:27:53 In the case of I2p, there is not only the implementation (language) 01:27:55 The Java version seam to have a lot more "stuff" in it, while I2pd seam to be the bare minimum 01:27:57 The next time I set up an i2pd router I'll benchmark it myself 01:28:32 Same for me lol, Right now i'm not running any but I was planning to set it up soon™️ 01:29:04 Yeah I agree I with this, I'm not too fond of Snark or Jetty 01:29:26 ❤️ https://pub.dev/packages/i2p 03:33:29 who is promoting keystone wallet so much on monero twiiter/ x account ? 03:33:43 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/911981eeb18eb84c9bfbbff04d711264bfc2efb71847118805529001984 03:34:48 like they keystone wallet haven't fully released monero imtegration 03:35:31 like they keystone wallet haven't released full monero imtegration yet. 03:36:54 whats the need to give them quote tweet boosts again when they are in WIP ? 03:37:58 like why are they endorsed so much ? is there an agreement with them , that their products will be endorsed officially ? 03:37:59 that too even before launch 03:40:27 like why are they endorsed so much ? is there an agreement with official monero account to ,endorse officially ? 03:40:29 Has someone reviewed their products ? 03:41:03 the keystone wallet haven't even released full monero integration yet. 03:45:43 like why are they endorsed so much ? 03:45:43 was there an agreement with keystone to endorse them officially ? 03:45:45 Has someone even reviewed their products before such endorsement ? 04:02:56 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/tchncs.de/e675dc39e6ff3ca2cb44b19a0a75f9c5dfb89c9f1847126180633772032 04:03:49 they even have dmed many monero users following their account earlier to market their product. which is ridiculous. 04:04:15 as is always, I'll just stick to monero-cli 04:05:26 they even have dmed many monero users about their product and they have "officially" started working on monero. This is just ridiculous. 04:42:31 Thanks 06:10:16 #monero-dev 06:27:21 Whatsup fam, wonna know Monero holders better, so besides anonym concept, what do u personally do with XMR? Like accumulate the tokens because u love the project, use it as a payment or whatever. Would be very thankful for answers! 06:45:49 that's not what I'm talking about, check what is the reason why Tor forked Firefox ESR and modified it to fit their threat model and not just recommended proxying firefox through plain Firefox 06:49:37 this https://paste.i2pd.xyz/?77b8e66d0f366f87#BSA1kWMHpbAjFbRVRqQdf25feRQJ1sBY4mTDVNvs5dxj ? 06:49:50 looks like the dev is back in business https://github.com/zlatinb/muwire/commit/651c9f3e944b07adf92fb2ac6d74eaa31423eff5 06:51:20 "ser" 06:51:21 sounds scamy 06:51:58 sus, who tweeted about it? where's the transparency on who manages twitter account? 07:09:42 certainly not playing poker with it 😛. Using xmr even before ever used btc 08:15:32 heh, waiting you for next game! 12:53:37 real, i remember i once installed java i2p and it was eating up 20%+ of the CPU, while i2pd has very low utilization 12:54:17 did anyone try using graalvm to compile the i2p jar file? 12:55:43 no 12:55:51 idk how much it'll help tho 12:55:58 Java is inefficient by design... 12:56:45 NO BAD GOY! Its just le heckin JVM fault!!! 12:57:27 man, in java you have to create an object, which is a pointer to some data in the heap, for doing literally ANYTHING 12:58:03 you make gozillions of pointer allocations for the most basic tasks 12:58:40 I believe in Web Assembly supremacy 12:59:20 also, AFAIK there can be no Link Time Optimization (LTO) at all, because Java classes are compiled separately... and they are "linked" together at runtime 13:00:02 Yes and i thanks them for that. Makes it easy to load mods on minecraft 13:00:31 Yeah supreme but still subject to cors policy 13:00:45 Web issue 13:01:01 Im talking like non web Web assmbky usage 13:01:27 in my opinion, it would be better if minecraft was made in C, and mods would be made in LUA or something similar 13:01:39 like factorio does 13:01:46 I saw someone build a minecraft clone in c++ 13:01:54 There is a Minecraft server written in C++ 13:01:58 didn't minecraft have an official c++ implementation? 13:02:23 Bedrock version 13:02:43 It’s written in C or C++ I think 13:02:54 That's called a modding API. And Minecraft never and will never support such 13:03:03 when microshite took over 13:03:07 Cuberite? it's severely outdated 13:03:19 That’s the one 13:03:36 Yeah well this is like 10 years ago for me 13:03:38 ugly design choices, blame microsoft, they preferred to implement "muh datapacks" 13:04:24 real 13:05:18 Minecraft: Rust edition when? 13:06:45 MineTest 13:06:55 Wat 13:07:03 MineTest is Rust? 13:07:17 no, it's C++ 13:07:26 mods are written in LUAA 13:07:30 mods are written in LUA 13:09:03 C# is slower than Java yet every C# game i played is magnitude faster than Minecraft 13:09:27 isn't C# faster than Java actually? 13:09:29 No this isnt a fallacious argument i swear 13:09:50 No i checked some benchmark its actually the opposite 13:10:13 But memory consumption is way lower obviously 13:13:28 according to this benchmark, C# is usually faster than Java: https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/fastest/csharp.html 13:13:29 Though it doesn't mean it's necessary better in all the real world scenarios 13:14:15 also it depends greatly on how much you optimize the code... the Sodium mod increases minecraft FPS a lot, for example, because minecraft is badly optimized 13:31:41 i've written a small benchmark (find first 20k prime numbers and append them to an array) in Go, V and Java 13:32:11 Java: 789ms 13:32:13 Golang: 338ms 13:32:15 V: 334ms 13:37:46 this is the first time I've heard of the V programming language 13:40:08 V is kinda similar to Go, but transpiled to C, and it's easier to use C/C++ interop with V 13:45:38 Need to compare it to the pure C implementation 13:51:53 vaporware don't worry about it. 13:54:10 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/kyun.host/QaipStTVFzxoifsxkcXWxuRa 14:00:42 I haven't thought of V in a while. advertised no dependencies, required libc and libcurl? Claimed no memory leaks, even Hello World leaks memory? Claimed memory safety without borrowing or a GC, is unsafe? Claimed transpiling from C to V which worked on all of Doom 3 and then only published partially working og Doom? 14:01:03 Dude claimed it didn't use an AST? 14:01:41 https://mawfig.github.io/2022/06/18/v-lang-in-2022.html links to basically all the historical items 14:08:10 💀 14:08:48 let's not forget they planned on making a web browser from scratch with this language 14:18:10 this is interesting, let me verify if the bugs are still there 15:18:18 i've verified that review. Most of the bugs have been fixed. Read here: https://gist.github.com/duggavo/9b9d4ca3fa52ec5a794d39cff291b8e2 15:19:17 I'm considering to use Monero to send a friend in Colombia money, but it seems there is no exchange that does XMR -> COP with withdrawal via bank transfer? It seems there isn't even something for BTC -> COP. Anybody got ideas? 15:21:22