01:32:16 Listen here, you lil shit. 01:32:49 Who told you I am running reto, defending reto, and most importantly, taking reto's fee? 01:33:13 Markus clarify that. Answer the question. I shall be waiting, aloha boy. 01:34:04 Aloha! 01:34:41 I presume you've not read their website 01:35:03 Assumptions are the mother of fuck ups. 01:35:25 A thank you note leads you to believe I run reto, defend reto and profit off of it? 01:35:56 I wonder what conclusions you draw from a simple "hi, how are you?" interaction with a stranger... 01:36:21 Probably that they want to fuck your brains out, among other things. 01:36:35 Calm down 01:36:56 Point is, thus far, I am not defending reto and for the other two, stop being delusional. I haven't earned a penny from Reto and I do not run any seed nodes for Reto. 01:37:13 Have some ham and pineapple pizza 01:37:15 No, fuck off. You are claiming I do things I do not, when asked for proof, you use the credits on a static website. 01:38:10 It was actually an assumption 01:39:08 Well, glad you will correct that moving forward haha. 01:39:44 https://insanelygoodrecipes.com/hawaiian-cocktails/ 01:39:52 Markus I even invited you to Revuo's Matrix room few minutes after you had announced the new network in here and Haveno's main room, haha. I'll share the news in Revuo some time tomorrow, if not Friday. 01:40:13 As for mbull, be patient with him. He's European... 01:40:45 You are correct in that just being on their website does not inherently mean you are taking a fee. 01:41:14 I am happy to apologize on that basis. 01:44:08 I have not yet extended any sort of apology to him 01:44:58 I've yet to raise this the reddit audience 01:45:43 What kind? 01:46:16 Not my kind I hope 01:46:20 One of the worst and best, depending on the lens you look it through... 🇩🇪. 01:47:10 I do not read any of what he says on here out of tiredness. Trying to talk some sense to that dude is pointless haha. What did he say about Aloha anyway? 01:52:14 I can't remember specifics, I just remember him not liking it at all and responding rather weirdly / unexpectedly. I just linked that with how much he shills it on Reddit and considered him a significant stakeholder. 01:56:54 I see... 01:57:11 He's gotten some shade from his pinned thread on how to install it being a moderator. 03:29:21 @a​lohamarkus:matrix.org: I have nothing to do with reto. I'm a user like everyone else there. 06:12:30 we mainly told markus to un-fuck his 2000-files-changed GitHub but he got all defensive 06:13:32 Them he said you and me run reto and that we are tyrants and that I'll censor this dude on Reddit 06:14:22 He also made snide remarks about a Reto config thing that his fork also has set to the same default number 06:14:51 Then he said you and me run reto and that we are tyrants and that I'll censor this dude on Reddit 06:20:23 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/UhodkuLvyhbarSiPQsWyOGGh 06:20:50 he also claimed to somehow have launched "months before reto"? 06:55:29 alright 06:55:53 how does one convert btc to mnr 06:56:06 im looking for safe methods 06:57:26 the eu put a planket ban on monero it seems 06:58:28 think i found a way 06:58:54 anybody heard of changenow.io? 07:06:14 yeah its on https://www.getmonero.org/community/merchants/ 07:14:19 which one would you use? 07:15:23 there's 5 of them 07:15:46 check out [trocador](https://trocador.app/?ref=YFJL36Szy7) 07:17:56 does that link track or just refer 07:18:13 sigh 07:18:29 disclose ref links please 07:19:02 kycnot.me for more detailed info on each swapper 07:19:24 okey 07:19:31 it doesnt track 07:19:45 ok 07:20:37 it just splits the me the 0.02% (?) referral with trocador and the sharer without costing any more 07:20:44 it just splits the 0.02% (?) referral with trocador and the sharer without costing any more 07:23:40 that's fair. 07:45:05 yourstruly, blanket ban on Monero? That is unenforceable! 07:59:50 BlueyHealer: im sure you've heard o fit 08:13:37 No, not sure. Only exchange delistings. 09:09:42 oh, that's what i meant. 09:09:55 the exchanges dont deal in monero anymore. :( 09:10:20 doesnt matter 09:10:38 at least once serai is running 09:18:24 hi 09:20:07 Or at least swaps from other currencies) Personally not considering this because I would never KYC for this anyway - but still. 09:24:28 Test 09:30:48 monerobull: Any rough ETA on Serai? I remember that you were fairly actively involved 09:31:05 yourstruly: You could have a look at Bitfinex if you are in Europe 09:34:06 id say early 2025 09:52:37 :3 10:23:24 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1gln8b9/warning_aioha_haveno_network_shady_hotheads/ 10:36:49 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Is this the one with like 5 domains trying to confuse people? 10:39:11 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/hgBXVEjiqqErMARyuCrFZNjO 10:39:12 Hello why i can't join the #monero-dev:monero.social room ? 10:39:47 that was haveno main, yeah 10:40:00 they also bought @haveno on telegram and copied the haveno.exchange website 10:40:02 copying websites 10:40:04 hmmmmm 10:40:19 another thing main and aloha have in common 10:41:59 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Scammers 10:43:28 Is there some dev who do stuff on xmr here? 10:44:07 be more specific 10:46:59 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Is it a support issue or development 10:48:05 I am having the same issue in the Monero Workgroup Community chat which is my favorite place to argue with people 10:48:10 im looking for somenoe who already did txs in a node js environment 10:48:37 can someone please fix it for me, plowsof tried but something weird is happening, maybe it needs a monero.social server restart? 10:48:52 #monero-community-dev:monero.social is better for none-core stuff 10:49:12 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Fix what? 10:49:26 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Your on matrix.orgy homeserver 10:49:28 thanks bro 10:50:18 dev is invite only currently, kewbits issue is unrelated 11:46:46 Good luck kewbit. I've seen people having this issue with no way to fix it. 11:47:04 You better not be in denial and accept the sad reality that you need another matrix account 12:12:34 double 12:12:41 wielding 12:12:51 is the only solution to matrix fuckery 12:19:51 Login from a new client 12:24:07 another day with matrix issues :) 12:24:39 where do I get an account and how many of them should I get? 12:25:15 Who knows 12:27:44 1. Monero.social has reg disabled 12:27:46 2. If you make an acct, a lot of rooms are invite-only 12:27:48 3. If you get invited, a lot of rooms are broken 12:32:02 wen matrix workgroup ? 12:34:10 😭 12:34:36 matrix-brokengroup 12:34:55 Cant call it a workgroup if its broken 12:44:13 Turn off invite-only -_- plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org 12:45:55 Emoji-gate, invite-gate, registration-gate 12:46:04 What are we, apple? 12:48:12 Sacrificing everything to "protect" from 1 person is senseless 12:48:45 Make me mod and turn off invite-only 12:49:29 The spammer literally _told me_ that their goal was to force us to close off the community 12:51:41 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/syHTZxfKIIjJMsyxlauUUIeT 13:11:37 When I discovered Aloha on Kewbit's website 2 or 3 days ago, I thought these are skilled people that Kewbit knows. 13:11:40 Then I saw their Github, Rofl. Then the 0 fees - my first thought was SCAM alert. 13:12:13 Super terrible commit history 13:12:26 SCAM alert 2.0 from Haveno main. Now I know it can't be 'main'. They come from Austria. 13:12:51 Tbf, reto's is also not-great, but aloha's is like "i've never used git before" 13:14:54 The story about the age is amazing. The mainnet launch date is in the code with arb keys. This boy is completely incompetent. :-) 13:14:55 https://github.com/nahuhh/haveno/commits/pr/aloha/ this is how aloha's should look 13:16:11 they really have a great PR strategy 13:16:47 "lets start by telling a bunch of lies and creating enemies" 13:17:32 Looking at reto's lol, its pretty bad too 🙈 13:17:47 @o​frnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes, I read everything yesterday. Even your attempts to help him get a clean Github. 13:18:15 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/JdzDFgMQcnJzViPiHwjGBvNI 13:18:47 At least its not 1800 files being modified within a 1 line change 13:21:15 If a 2nd Haveno Network in Kewbit's splinter app, then I would most likely trust HardenSteel. He stopped the launch 6 months ago. 13:23:05 unless cakewallet launches a network that has negative fees, i dont think id switch to any new network lmao 13:23:22 Why not ofrnxmr's network 😡 13:23:44 Mine has been the best since 100 days before haveno frontend ccs 13:24:50 you didnt launch based on a bisq beta version fork 10 years ago? 13:24:55 mid 13:25:05 :-) 13:25:09 I did tho 13:25:13 11yrs ago 13:25:26 Before monero 13:25:30 damn 13:25:37 bytecoin bisq 13:26:08 it wasnt the best til 100 days before haveno ccs.. so theres that 13:26:43 that's real thing btw 13:27:00 kucoin were paying negative fees for very high volumes 13:27:02 for makers 13:27:32 Kucoin also claims to have 9m xmr 13:27:42 Ha, ha. bytecoin bisq is a good name for aloha ;- 13:27:58 lmao 13:28:14 alo-nah 13:28:16 tbf.. reto's git is ass too 🙈 13:28:23 youve said it three time 13:28:25 youve said it three times 13:28:36 Aloha's 1800 file commit is a 100% NACK tho 13:28:42 the git isnt even the big issue 13:28:53 I'm waiting for it 2 b fixed 13:29:00 its how they responded to the criticism 13:29:13 I never looked til 15mins ago, now i can't unsee 13:29:28 Aloha response was hilarious 13:29:29 Yes, they had to rebase recently when .12 came out. 13:29:37 Got mad that i sent a patch 💀 13:30:21 Rebase isnt the issue. The commit names show they use github .com to make commits and dont know how to squash 13:31:19 https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/compare/master...retoaccess1:haveno-reto:master#diff-d937e7daf401ec4f0a646837c8f1d3239bee76ea9fb276a7dd2f5d985fee481fR45 13:31:20 reto should stop using my temporary workaround to launch mainnet 13:31:30 https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/commit/61fc13aa31a72245978549cab84f45b997a5ac93#diff-d937e7daf401ec4f0a646837c8f1d3239bee76ea9fb276a7dd2f5d985fee481fR45 13:32:23 can you explain what the workaround is? 13:32:38 commenting out that line 13:32:49 All I know is that they constantly have problems accessing Github via VPN. 13:33:01 "// import java.util.ArrayList; TODO" this? 13:33:08 yes 13:33:39 there was an issue about it, i cant remember why i exactly did it 13:33:45 does it impact the software at all? 13:35:19 "/core/support/dispute/arbitration/arbitrator/ArbitratorManager.java" 13:35:24 " All I know is that they constantly have problems accessing Github via VPN." << i exclusively access gh via tor 13:35:26 sounds kinda important 13:36:03 i forgot, its been long time 13:37:00 I was going to ask woodster about it, but instead I just canceled 13:37:34 why does it show these differently? 13:37:36 everyone love woodser 13:37:41 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/xiPwddvdgBeuslrZIqGOgKnN 13:37:44 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/UwNsBcAMEeMpcrXGYlccHqgj 13:37:44 but no one asked if woodser love us 13:38:17 i think wooder does, he has been working very hard on haveno 13:38:38 probably the file changed until now 13:38:42 He loves haveno, not you 13:38:44 my commit is much older 13:39:24 i didnt update my repo to new versions 13:39:35 idk how this works but just logically thinking, could woodser have removed it and the reto comitt literally just adds a comment for something that isnt there anymore? 13:40:06 idk how this works but just logically thinking, could woodser have removed it and the reto commit literally just adds a comment for something that isnt there anymore? 13:40:13 Git blame 13:40:44 thats what i would have guessed since there is no removed line in the reto image 13:41:52 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/JYPbUKKsWoJfttNcsWTjQoXy 13:42:44 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/zuEgSRAwGTXtvKGHDSNIDpQD 13:43:12 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/CHUwMrAxideptcHDSbRkjaeC 13:43:45 They didnt release new no-fee vs 13:44:07 they said with next update 13:45:19 Yes with .13 13:47:32 Website ist outdated :-) The 0% taker is currently 0.1% Maker is 0.5% AFAIK 13:48:05 https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/commit/4172cc72dff9049a8ad6c159ccfff36c0bf96b6a 13:48:28 Hardened ^ 13:48:37 not outdated, it has always been this way 13:49:08 whenever i talked with reto team they told me they will change it 13:49:10 but they never did 13:49:21 they only changed on the site 13:51:39 can you do a git balme on this https://github.com/retoaccess1/retoaccess1.github.io/commit/a36bb89d533a90cc8dbcae66935e6ec3fd4b2dde 13:51:50 or is that not how it works 13:54:26 https://github.com/retoaccess1/retoaccess1.github.io/commits/a36bb89d533a90cc8dbcae66935e6ec3fd4b2dde/index.html 13:54:28 Commit history for that file 13:54:30 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/MDXuailKmdqyIWfBBpZomZLe 13:55:24 bc https://github.com/haveno-dex/haveno/commit/4172cc72dff9049a8ad6c159ccfff36c0bf96b6a I'll write to them in SimpleX to fix it. 13:55:36 interesting 13:55:45 it was 0.1 & 0.5 on the old website 13:56:41 or maybe not? 13:56:52 i think i didnt get enough sleep 13:57:07 i thought one of the web archive captures shows .1 & .5 13:57:37 ok im not insane 13:57:40 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/uhQoGaMOJQdoMqGiHSmvBJlc 13:57:46 in july it was 0.6 13:58:01 then on july 26 it was changed 13:58:11 and in august the website was re-made and it was 0.6 again 13:59:25 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/yxyxgXExhathXzmcQcRBHIId 13:59:40 it was correct for about a month 14:01:17 Yes, they've been wanting to change Taker to 0% for a while now, but they don't have it in the code yet. 14:01:25 july 21 14:01:30 look the commit date 14:02:45 ;-) > m​onerobull:matrix.org: it was correct for about a month 14:03:51 ah right 14:07:11 I never really cared about the fees. Most of it was donated to woodser for Haveno Bounty's. 14:09:16 TxID's are in SimpleX Chat History if anyone has them. 14:13:27 Anyone with experience on UnstoppableSwap ? 14:13:39 If I have calculated correctly: Trade History 3.674,83 Fee 0.6% = 22,0490 14:13:49 XMR 14:14:00 edit: Anyone here have used unstoppableswap without any issues? 14:18:04 the fees were pretty low anyways 14:18:31 you can see how many fees you've paid in total in the history tab 14:19:09 my average fee percentage is even below 0.3 14:21:24 monerobull: ty, early 2025 sounds promising 14:36:11 monero abt to moon and catch up to bitcoin in price 🥳 14:37:10 I would rather want Monero's price to be relatively stable. No jumps in either direction makes it more usable as a currency. 14:37:53 i think i’d rather it moon to $70k right now and i’d just cash out the buy it back once it crashed back down 🥳 14:38:16 but yes, monero is fairly stable and great for my illicit purchases 14:38:40 oops, typo, i meant legitimate purchases 14:40:48 yeah, I love my illicit purchase of a novelty domain) 14:41:53 I use monero to buy groceries. Fym 14:42:21 i’ve used it for uber eats ⁉️ 14:42:24 if we pumped to 70k in one day i dont even know where i would put the funds 14:42:35 im not going to be holding dollars or euros lol 14:42:44 Ive bought uber for someone else with it too 14:43:00 i would probably evenly distribute it across monero, eth, bitcoin and usdt 14:43:33 Hahahahahaha 14:43:39 then purchase my 🐑 car 14:43:40 USDS sky savings rate maybe 14:43:45 they havent added the block feature just yet 14:43:49 Sorry i laughed out loud. This guy real, really said eth, btc, usdt 14:43:52 Dogwifhat 14:44:01 what’s funny? 14:44:03 1000 14:44:09 but you need to stay up to date because the USDS contract is upgradable 14:44:34 sorry man, i’m a bit confused what’s funny about eth and usdt 🤨 14:44:46 i know you not talking ish about my btc 😒 14:44:47 none of those are money 14:44:53 buying btc at ATH, good idea 14:45:01 Distribute between guns, land, and monero 14:45:14 i can see buying some gold 14:45:23 And business ventures 14:45:33 at 70k you can buy like a kilo per xmr right? 14:45:37 and? do you really think your western government is going to let you cash out ur hundreds of millions you gained from monero buddy 😃 14:45:59 My government? Whats that? 14:46:15 Philanthropy is also an option 14:46:31 i wouldn’t go to war with those guys, they’re pretty scary 14:46:32 Private gun sales are super legal w/o any paperwork 14:46:34 P2p land sales are super legal as well 14:47:00 plowsof coming in with the "think of the ccs" reminder, good job :D 14:47:06 xD 14:47:25 if we go to 70k you can bet your ass i am funding a bunch of these by myself 14:47:48 although i would think something is seriously broken if we ever pump that high 14:47:52 i think i’d just buy out an entire markets drugs and resell them in chiraq, easy investment 14:48:39 monero is better than bitcoin, we need to trade the values 14:48:54 we should do like btc users and just stop spending /s 14:49:05 As long as the price isn't going all over the place like with BTC... 14:49:05 if we can get everyone on board to sell their bitcoin and put it all into monero, we can do this guys 14:49:22 yes 14:49:55 unfortunately i find myself using xmr as a currency and not an asset to hold and brag about on social media 14:49:56 Price? What price 14:50:06 bitcoin is a cult 14:50:13 it will go on for at least 2 more decades 14:50:20 1 house = 3xmr 14:50:39 before mining subsidies are too low to secure the value 14:50:48 I don't think it's a cult, it's a) people using it as stocks and b) inertia. 14:50:52 i would like that 14:51:10 you should go to some bitcoin meetups 14:51:26 didn’t the united states president cause the big increase with bitcoin recently? 14:51:42 indeed 14:51:43 Ah, those are outright cultish? NGL seen some of cultish behavior with Monero but thankfully not everywhere. 14:51:58 how nice, i heard he also made a shit coin, my kind of guy tbh 14:52:00 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/iKuabjvMcKTgyTrnnkajEjOh 14:52:16 bb3883, I was under the impression that he likes crypto as an industry but doesn't like freedom and anonymity of crypto as a currency... 14:52:22 don’t they have 4 billion in silk road coins already 14:52:32 Also yeah, he did do a shitcoin! 14:52:42 in U.S? 💀 14:52:54 trump is doing this just to farm votes and make some money 14:52:59 bb3883, heard somewhere that the US government is the biggest crypto owner in the world. 14:53:15 that’s not very cutesy or demure of him, he’s one of us whether he likes it or not 14:53:17 there is clearly a team making all the crypto stuff in his name 14:53:18 yes, he should stick to selling Macdonalds 14:53:38 the best thing that could come out of this is if he makes true on his promise to free ross 14:53:41 that would be something 14:53:42 nostr fanatics be like: BTC + Lightning + Trump => meaning of life 14:53:51 i don’t think they would allow crypto to continue in their jurisdiction if they weren’t 14:54:08 rando: after pump 14:54:27 And roger ver 14:54:42 i think ross has about 4 years, trump will wait till the very end of his term in office 14:54:48 maybe trumps plan to pay off US debts is to pump and dump bitcoin 14:55:00 usa allowing xmr while eea, japan etc all cucking 14:55:02 on the scale of the entire USA 14:55:11 dumped on by USA 14:55:32 Usa definitely FOMOing and wants to be biggest holder of crypto 14:55:47 who really cashes out xmr though? i would never let such a crypto every touch my identity on any exchange unfortunately 14:55:48 Thats why they fud for so long while accumulating 14:55:50 current btc cultists think he deserves it 14:55:55 who really cashes out xmr directly though? i would never let such a crypto every touch my identity on any exchange unfortunately 14:56:07 remember - The feds dont sell seized monero 14:56:28 its a perfect black budget boost 14:56:35 Why? 14:56:53 Theres literally nothibf wrong with usinf xmr publicly 14:57:12 I use monero for a lot of clean, public business 14:57:19 would definitely put me on some kind of watch list 14:57:41 👻 ooooo a list 🥴 14:57:49 well as long as that’s all you use it for i think you’ll be okay, no need to worry about anything if you aren’t guilty of anything 14:57:59 i use cash too 14:58:12 Ans credit and debit 14:58:13 i of course am not guilty of anything either, i just don’t want them thinking i am 😁 14:58:14 like that one leaked terrorism watchlist with 2 million names on it 14:58:21 And i'm guilty of a lot 14:58:30 Does Monero project have an official marketing team? 14:58:36 I'm probably on it and i couldn't care less 14:58:39 no 14:58:42 Fuck no 14:58:51 is this bizarro world? thats the only choice to use if you value your privacy. but why sell is the question :) 14:58:52 they should 14:59:00 i hope i made the top 100 🙏 14:59:04 bb3883, I would never let an exchange touch my identity) They're all KYC 14:59:13 if you want marketing, you can buy stickers from monerosupplies.com 14:59:22 Me 200. I want to be #1 #voteofrn 14:59:27 there are even subsidized packages if you dont have much money 14:59:29 and paste it on private property 14:59:34 sometimes i need a bit of money for the bills and such at the end of the month 14:59:53 I cant give you my address!! Monero must be 100% onky for underground ppl who are afraid of the sun 15:00:22 will send the message to my supervisor and see about getting that done for you! 15:00:39 dont use it to pay your KYC'd phone bill. Its only for ppl who want to hide /s 15:00:50 too bad its all in monero 15:00:58 I'd appreciate it 15:01:09 with bitcoin i could check if its worth to rob you /s 15:01:10 you can buy esims with monero now, very great 15:01:12 I mean my shipping addr 15:01:21 the last guy disappeared never to be seen again 15:01:27 can you get me an actual list of large bitcoin holders and their addresses? 15:01:29 I'd rather just pay my regular phone bill, thx 15:01:42 uhm yeah? 15:01:53 but i can give you something better 15:02:04 what’s that? 15:03:33 https://icoholder.com/en/news/london-crypto-investor-robbed-of-4m-in-ethereum-by-armed-attackers 15:04:12 more london knife crypto robberies 15:04:13 https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/teenagers-jailed-crypto-knife-robberies-london-crime-met-police-b1092931.html 15:04:31 the knife would probably cost more than the contents of my monero stash lol 15:05:03 looks like user error, first article they cashed out poorly, and second one i’ll just assume they did the same or just got caught in the act 15:05:17 shitty robbers in the second link 15:05:26 they only got an average of 5.7k per robbed person 15:05:44 should have upped their chainalysis skills /s 15:05:55 thats not my point 15:06:08 TIL that rich lists exist /s 15:06:12 i just need one big name like that guy that got phished for half a billion a few months ago 15:06:14 my point is that transparent wallets make it super easy to rob you 15:06:33 yes, does anyone want to start a task force with me? 15:06:40 we can be the bitcoin bandits 15:06:43 No 15:06:47 You can work for me tho 15:07:01 what’s the pay? 15:07:09 can you stop mentioning crimes 15:07:24 I can run a barbershop, target come and pay in btc, i have man in the back monitor for large wallet, we then rob the fuck out the dude a few days later 15:07:37 yes, my apologies i wasn’t aware that was unallowed here, i assumed we were all connected thru tor 15:07:44 was just jokes of course! 15:07:48 yeah 15:08:09 yeah 15:08:10 we only trade minecraft diamonds and stagenet coins 15:08:12 1btc / hit 15:08:15 we only trade minecraft diamonds and stagenet coins 15:08:23 I only pay in transparent surveillance coins 15:08:25 i think that’s a great idea 15:08:36 Bottlecaps 15:08:44 Fallout be like 15:08:55 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/rNXREYeCfIjljiFETjnfXVWg 15:09:00 i once scammed my friend by opening up electrum in stagenet mode 15:09:02 people do this on purpose 15:09:04 https://edition.cnn.com/style/article/mschf-art-basel-miami-beach-2022-atm/index.html 15:09:36 epic 15:09:46 https://form.typeform.com/to/kRGE7inV 15:09:48 Nominate your favorite projects for Proton Fundraiser 15:10:56 I nominated Monero project, doubt Proton likes Monero, but it doesn't hurt giving it a chance and showing normal people does indeed care about Monero and not only "criminals" as Proton seems to think. 15:11:13 they are bitcoin maxis, they already know people care about monero lmao 15:11:38 does anyone actually use proton mail 15:11:51 this was posted on their twitter account btw https://xcancel.com/ProtonPrivacy/status/1854249422047117555 15:11:55 yes 15:12:20 i think them promoting privacy but then requiring sms for the register of an email is fairly backwards 15:12:25 pissing them off still they accept it 15:12:35 pissing them off till they accept it 15:13:08 Rhey accept it vis proxysto.re 15:13:19 they don't require only sms, you can add an email 15:13:25 lol^ 15:13:40 Heres my gmail 15:13:55 temp mail 🧠 15:14:12 did not know that, but i bet they block temp mails, so then you have to go find another service that’ll let you register with no sms and email from a tor ip, and in that case u might as well just stick to them 15:14:16 why would i need proton if i can use cock.li 15:14:39 true 15:14:42 no, they don't 15:14:53 yeah only dumb people use cock.li 15:14:57 cock.li even post every law enforcement interaction they have, very thoughtful of him 15:15:33 oh, then i will go make a proton mail when i am done eating this 8oz steak and shrimp plate, cheers 15:17:30 basses, what's wrong with it? 15:17:57 Also, Proton still does require an email or SMS? Heard about at least someone registering without, am I mistaken? 15:18:01 https://internet.nl/mail/cock.li/1377339/ 15:18:27 no funny shit, but how does cock.li avoid being marked as a spam service on sites like gmail, outlook, etc.. 15:18:28 It's hilarious how people are complaining about ProtonMail acting like a company that is pressured by gov, despite ProtonMail themselves explaining it since the beginning. And now people imagine stupid things like somehow protonmail giving access to e-mail breaking their encryption and shit while its absolutely off-topic to whatever public affairs they have shared. 15:18:52 basses, ah, understandable. 15:18:56 ProtonMail is fine. And there are better ways 15:19:13 also if you want to see more discussion about cock.li https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/cock-li-safe/16408 15:19:33 I used it for a bit back when I used their VPN until it got blocked. I didn't use it for a single email because they don't allow normal mail clients. 15:19:39 yeah, use instant messaging for messaging, ProtonMail is the best thing you can have for email 15:19:46 use the right tool 15:20:02 Also read on Lemmy that they did make their own client... But it apparently cannot even save mails locally, only cache them for a bit :/ 15:20:11 so basically a website in a client form 15:20:25 proton is the best for email? 🧐 15:20:28 cock.li being on the far-right spectrum should be a surprise to now one lmao 15:20:36 same with kyun really 15:20:44 ofrnxmr, the lack of client support automatically makes it not the best imo 15:21:09 ", fascists, misogynists and the like" lmao 15:21:11 yes 15:21:14 same with kyun really tho the owner is serious and wont actually force anything upon people. 15:21:32 cocaine.ninja Airmail.cc firemail.cc 15:22:03 Yeah, what was he thinking with such domains? Imagine writing your professor from such... 15:22:15 cock.li. maybe cock.li isnt for god fearing individuals and ppl who are hurt by words 15:22:34 https://discuss.privacyguides.net/t/cock-li-safe/16408/31 15:23:05 " Yeah, what was he thinking with such domains? Imagine writing your professor from such..." << some of xmr's finest use gmail 15:23:06 *based* some will say 15:23:15 "Hurt by words"? IDK, obscenity is just indecent. 15:23:19 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/rMIzhLGZiOZEhXLOlPhuWAsa 15:23:22 That's called "manners". 15:23:46 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ttxTvxncXKGYXuqLkRMcBqQM 15:23:55 Rottenwheel calls ppl #1 all the time 15:24:01 email for r*** 15:24:10 LOL tbf i havent seen these 15:24:15 should be banned 🤷 15:24:37 He does it from his alt accounts 15:24:53 uses his main acct to call ppl trannys tho 15:25:43 hurting newcomers and members generally shouldn't be tolerable at all even if have been a long community member 15:25:50 is paris in here? 15:26:00 wtf are you on about? 15:26:09 He's not a long time communiry member, he was banned for 2+yrs for the same 15:26:10 *Is Paris in the room with us right now?* 15:26:17 yes 15:26:22 Paris? The Dread guy? 15:26:46 tbh this kind of attitude should have prevented any kind of CCS coming from him 15:26:56 one of you seem to have the same form of speech as himmmm 15:26:59 won’t say who 15:27:12 idk understand. what did rottenwheel said ? 15:27:19 i dont understand. what did rottenwheel said ? 15:28:54 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/txVmUYOmBKPtPfCelqHvtELx 15:29:03 Or search community for "tranny" 15:30:06 ret** too 15:33:32 throws around the rainbow and trans flags. Sympathizes with nazi's. Like, when he says mbll is cool bcuz hes german, its bcuz he likes germany for its history / connection to hitler. 15:33:34 I dont actually care about his infractions, i just find it hilarious that he cant control himself. 15:33:36 We live in a world where its hard for grown ass adults to stop saying (real) offensive words... 15:33:52 in public 15:34:07 monerobull is german????? 15:35:59 Yes?????? 15:39:14 ITS THE MAN OF THE HOUR 15:39:18 welcome 15:40:15 He has be on /ignore, so he cant see half of the convo 15:40:22 s/be/me 15:40:34 Has rando on ignore too iirc 15:41:25 I am a Berliner 15:41:27 Rotten likes to live in his own little echo chamber. He [likes to think he] can dish it but cant take it 15:47:28 What's up, ofrn alt #999. 15:48:59 Who is ofrnalt 999? 15:49:07 Oh, real. Lmao 15:50:10 cool 15:51:30 monerobull: ty, early 2025 sounds promising <<>> is this estimate for serai being fully functional using real xmr? 15:54:15 That is my estimate yes 15:56:37 basses congrats on your new position as the official head of Monero marketing 16:06:41 clipboard.png 16:07:30 marketing need to do better than this <<>> clipboard.png 16:08:44 My guess would be after fcmp 16:08:59 I know it's after fcmp 16:10:10 hard fork for FCMP will be 2nd half of 2025 16:10:29 It's going to be after fcmp is done 16:10:34 Not after it is live 16:10:45 ah 16:19:46 I would think after its live 16:20:26 cuz serai makes use of monero directly 16:25:12 Doesn't matter a whole lot 16:25:45 The monero implementation just needs to be ready for the hardfork 16:27:31 ok 16:39:51 need to relicense monero software to BSD 16:49:27 it is bsd 16:50:22 that was quick 16:54:52 We move fast around here #efficiency 17:08:33 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Relicenxe to “copy left” 17:08:35 where? 17:08:43 not talking about monero-site 17:08:51 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Monero 17:10:24 oh it is indeed BSD 17:10:28 why not name it BSD? 17:10:44 https://github.com/monero-project/monero?tab=License-1-ov-file#readme 17:10:47 https://opensource.org/license/bsd-3-clause 17:11:22 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Part of it is MIT 17:11:31 <3​21bob321:monero.social> I just saw 17:11:45 yes, talking about the other part 17:12:31 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/PZGtcdsetlGxcrhYJaXyJexe 17:12:35 never chatgpt the license 17:57:57 Llama says 17:57:58 ``` 17:58:00 Monero (XMR) is an open-source cryptocurrency, and its software is licensed under: 17:58:02 *The permissive BSD-3-Clause License* 17:58:04 Also known as the "New BSD License" or "Modified BSD License," this license allows users to: 17:58:06 1. Freely use, modify, and distribute the software. 17:58:08 2. Use the software for commercial purposes. 17:58:10 3. Distribute modified versions of the software. 17:58:12 *Key conditions:* 17:58:14 1. Redistribution of the software must retain the original copyright notice. 17:58:16 2. Redistribution of modified versions must include a notice documenting the changes. 18:16:54 Interesting -> https://x.com/unstoppableweb/status/1854569691043578349 18:20:54 >In partnership with @monero and @cakewallet, we’re making $XMR payments more secure and private. Now, you can use a personalized domain instead of long wallet addresses to protect your financial identity. 18:20:54 real? 18:21:01 contacted with Monero CEO? 18:21:12 contacted which Monero CEO? 18:30:09 they said @monero, but @monero didnt tweet excitement about the new partnership /s 18:42:52 monero CEO was unavailable for comment :P 18:43:11 <3​21bob321:monero.social> We are respresented by monero community leader grants fund 18:58:10 Is this the same unstoppableweb that donated approx 5k$ equivalent in btc to our general fund address some years ago 19:03:19 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/p2e6jr/unstoppable_domains_in_matching_donations_to_the/ 19:09:42 they also stopped their unstoppable domains before 19:10:14 they asked "can you give these back pretty please" 19:15:11 Has anyone calculated how much it would cost to hold the xmr price at 150$ for years at a time 19:18:20 brother 19:19:05 that is just the real value with most speculation removed 19:22:12 Let’s imagine that’s incorrect 19:22:55 What would it cost to hold a currency like litecoin or bitcoin at a given price for 2 years 19:24:58 demand changes over time 19:25:13 so i'm not sure that's possible to answer 19:37:25 I suspect something could be calculated using historical price and transaction data 19:38:43 The person who is holding price at the level would certainly have that number 19:44:28 pure cope in the face of new BTC ATH 19:44:54 no one's holding the XMR price anywhere, BTC is massively inflated by finance and mining sector insiders 19:45:35 there is currently little demand for private digital currency, the majority of demand is for digital assets to dump on plebs 20:37:47 digital assets to dump? 21:08:14 "Has anyone calculated how much it would cost to hold the xmr price at 150$ for years at a time" <- this will hardly work like that, and I think it's the wrong way anyway. The problem is `fiat first` and the consecuence that people will value the value of fiat, although in decline.... It would change a lot if people would stop to see monero as just another crypto with privacy built in. And that is, why IMO adoption is secondary, but "deep adoption" (still find 21:08:15 no better word) is much more important. At the moment you charge for your work exclusively in XMR, or charge a premium if paid in othr means on top, purchase goods like meat, milk, bread (let's say simply groceries) in XMR - and this producers start to adopt a similar behaviour, you will start to get digusted by fiat and it's inflation. If you would anchor XMR to USD 150 you add the inflation of USD to XMR (IMO insane). Same on exchange, if you make XMR on 21:08:17 trading XMR and you want to stranghten XMR you should use a formular what is USD worth against value(products) and what is XMR in your opinion worth against value(products). Even better if trader agree on that value mostly (this will stablize and strengthen XMR). Stop putting prices in fiat first (even better don't - accept that fiat is worthless piece of paper which get's worth by dictation of gov and perception). Then on trading, give fiat for XMR for the spot 21:08:18 price (buy XMR), but put a markup on giving XMR for fiat (sell XMR), this demonstrated that the appreciated side is XMR not fiat, you prefer to hold XMR. Think about prices in your childhood in fiat and the same good in the same currency only with compound inflation. I think XMR is different, and XMR's fight is not in xchanges, screw exchanges, stick to the better money... And stop give prices in fiat and convert the by "rate" to XMR. https://xmrbazaar.com/ 21:08:20 Would you ever get a feeling what is the value of XMR purchasing daily on this side (not an attack on xmrbazar, simply one example)? No, because in you "lazy" head you will compare it with other products tagged with fiat prices, or with how many hours you need to work for it. 21:09:36 I would rather not have to use a smartphoneto pay for something simple like milk and eggs, so cash is king. 21:09:55 And if you tie the XMR to USD 150, you get an inverted curve of the value for XMR of that chart: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/APU0000703112 (price history in USD for ground beef) 21:16:15 BlueyHealer: I think that is something to solve. I was for a while in a city, with a local currency (unfortunately tied to EUR). But, also, you if you local somewhere, you don't need any cash. Durring walks with the dog I have almost never cash with me, but if you are local, most people are willing to give you products in advance and you pay it later. I did it often. On the way back I got 2-3 products to not need to go out of the house again and I paid simply by 21:16:16 bank transfer in MX (on arriving at home). Other times I let cash in some places for the case I want to purchase something when I don't have cash on me. Both worked pretty well. So if your suppliers (obviously that will not work with a supermarket or a gas station) are well know, what stops you to send once in a while some XMR, or have it noted down in a book? 21:17:08 Cash by government is voluntary enslavement, cash is not king for you, it is king above you. 21:17:22 Its really simple. 21:17:24 1. How many ppl here use gate.io? 21:17:31 Answer = ~0 21:18:00 2.how much volume does gate.io report? 21:18:02 answer: the vast majority 21:18:29 3. How much xmr does kucoin claim to have? 21:18:30 answer: over 50% of the supply 21:18:39 what is gate.io? 21:19:06 a cex that claims to have the vast majority of xmr volune 21:19:53 Tldr: as long as you respect a cex's misreporting volume _and_ reserves as gospel, youre a sucker 21:20:50 All you have to do is _stop setting sell orders on cex and haveno below 500usd, and like magic, the new price will be 500usd 21:21:59 they can only play smoke and mirrors if 1. Users avoid cex trading (never setting sell orders) 2. follow the cex's price 21:22:38 good thought! 21:23:31 if they sell fake xmr at 160usd, then eventually it wont be able to be withdrawn (bcuz kucoin doesnt actually have 9m xmr) 21:24:08 With all of the delistings, the majority of reported volume is coming from cex that nobody uses (!!) 21:24:48 but I think, and I know it is a lot of effort, but there are people out there to abolish fiat or use is like a second or third class citizen if they can a) live and b) prosper on it, and simultaniosly starving fiat and with it the government. 21:25:15 its extremely easy to run a short squeeze on monero, were (as a community) just to pathetic to pull it off 21:25:40 So one strategie would then to put the sell price to usd 500, and on selling purchasing the cheap xmr 21:26:50 Steps: 21:26:52 1. Buy _new_ on cex. Keep it on cex and set sell orders at moon prices 21:26:54 2. use existing xmr and set sell orders on haveno at moon prices. 21:26:56 3. Repeat. 21:27:03 buy New xmr* 21:27:18 (1 means, dont deposit your xmr. Use the cex's reserve) 21:27:24 But I still think it is a issue, IMO monero is the only currency which needs a price consciousness, because "Monero is Monero" (like Diego said). 21:32:44 Us / feds keeping it at low prices makes adoption near impossibke 21:33:09 Because liquidity is too sparse - you need to hold a lot of xmr to do anything, and theres (only 18.4m available) 21:33:57 yes and the result will be prices in monero go down, because value goes up. 21:34:15 IDK, I would rather not touch the internet if I can avoid touching the internet. Monero is so awesome because it gives you a private and independent option for online purchases where cash isn't viable. 21:34:35 As soon you drop fiat, gov can't play with it anymore 21:35:24 Well yeah, and tying all the payments to something electronic does not seem like a good thing either. 21:35:49 Well I would prefer (gov issued) cash would not be accepted anywhere, and the good thing is: it will die, the question is how log is it gonna go yet. 21:35:56 Monero is from the digital worls, cash is from the physical. I would rather not mix the two worlds if this isn't necessary. 21:37:13 vThor, not imagine your computer and/or phone broke, and it would be a while until you save up for repair or replacement. Would you like to be crippled? Would you also like to be excluded just because you're poor, for example? 21:37:42 so you prefer to give gov authority and extort and rape you over paying online with monero? 21:37:59 Cash can be backed in monero, just like it used to be backed in gold 21:38:22 or could look like https://opendime.com/ 21:39:08 vThor, cash doesn't give that authority. Banks do. 21:40:38 Opendime isnt divisible tho 21:40:40 cash doesn't need to be controlled by the govt 21:40:51 and indeed electronic payment systems are pretty dangerous 21:41:02 " vThor, cash doesn't give that authority. Banks do." <-- wrong, which entity simply steals you by direct extortion (taxes) or inderect extortion(printing money)? 21:41:20 so taxation is the problem, not cash 21:41:21 Also one does not cancel the other. Monero is the cash's counterpart for online life, and I adore it in this. I just don't think it has to be outside of that. That would be as impractical as cash by mail - it absolutely has its use, but not something that should be the primary method of payment where it doesn't belong as much. 21:41:54 cash should be backed by a reserve of monero, i'd think 21:41:56 gov is the problem, and gov issued and mandated "currency". 21:42:09 right 21:42:38 vThor, cash can be used to evade taxes if you are willing to do so. Guess why so many companies employ people unofficially and pay them in cash. 21:42:57 but there's nothing wrong with physical money per se - and indeed it's superior to electronic money in many ways. 21:43:03 "cash should be backed by a reserve of monero, i'd think" <- the issue is there needs to be a entity to change it, and counterfeit will be a huge problem and very easy for gov as long it is not starved to death 21:43:28 unless you can guarantee that our electronic systems are fully pwned by the govt, except of course they are and you can't. 21:43:38 counterfeiting a reserve should be hard 21:43:43 as2333, yes. Monero is superior online. Physical money is superior in the real world. Simple as that. Tying your ability to pay for things to a phone is unnerving and dystpian. 21:44:09 BlueyHealer yep pretty much. 21:44:25 The gift cards that plowsof and i worked on should allow for creating "cash" that only the user would know the password to spend 21:44:32 Also, it's unlikely you'd shop 100% local as you suggest - I doubt a store on the other end of the city would believe my promise to pay later, and even in the downstairs store I am not sure the cashier knows my face. 21:45:16 "More like a reloadable prepaid debit card" (but the card could be paper + qr/nfc 21:46:17 Merchant scans it, you enter your pin, funds are swept from the card then change is loaded onto the card 21:47:07 "vThor, cash can be used to evade taxes if you are willing to do so. Guess why so many companies employ people unofficially and pay them in cash." <- direct extortion, yes. inderect not. See it like that, if you work for $100 1h, and your neighbor also works for $100 one hour. And I can control the currency supply and want to have my house build, now I print some $100 notes and get you both to work on my house. What is the actual worth in hours if I paid both of 21:47:08 Also, I wouldn't rely on Monero staying anonymous. There might always be a flaw unknown before. There might be something that changes and undermines the privacy I had before. Physical cash is much harder to consistently track like this... Online, I don't treat methods of anonymity as a guarantee. For example, I am fine with relying on Tor now... But I am not an interesting person and unlikely to be 21:47:09 you $10'000? (worked together 200 hours)? Or better on the reverse, how many lifetime you got stolen? 21:47:10 targeted, so it's fine. 21:47:47 ofrnxmr, I think that requiring a merchant to use a phone is also not good, because merchants include the grannies on the train station that we buy berries from. 21:49:23 "Merchant scans it, you enter your pin, funds are swept from the card then change is loaded onto the card" <- will end up in exploiting the system just like cash, if I can invest some time and have 1000x to inifite return, be sure there are people working on. 21:49:31 Merchant doesnr need to use a phone 21:49:54 vThor that's why metals are good for money. They can't be counterfeited. 21:50:14 "cant be counterfeited" lol 21:50:20 yep 21:50:25 Never seen a shaved coin? 21:50:28 physically impossilbe 21:50:32 Or a fake gold bar? 21:50:46 yes, that's not an example of counterfeited metal but a of debased coin 21:50:55 There are (literal) tonnes of counterfeit metals 21:51:01 nope 21:51:15 yes 21:51:23 of course no chemical compound or element can be counterfeited 21:51:36 Well use metals, I'm in favor, as long it is not attachted to the beast, but I think it is not viable like XMR only life. 21:51:48 do you think you can buy gold / silver on the market and not test it? Safely? 21:52:10 that's not what I said. Of course it needs to be tested 21:52:16 "of course no chemical compound or element can be counterfeited" how you want to test it on the street buying a bread and a water? 21:52:18 Ive sold silver and had ppl show up with ice cubes and scales (lol) 21:52:37 +1 21:53:13 Which is my point. Its not a viable currency if it requires testing at the point of sale 21:53:14 ofrnxmr, I thought that was referring to "qr/nfc". And if this is leading to a wallet - how'd you know in advance that what you got wasn't emptied before? 21:53:42 notice that 'electronic money' depends on a very long list of testing, assumptions, integrity of software, hardware etc 21:53:51 it's just hidden 21:53:56 XMR-only life seems dystopian due to tying your finances to Internet and a connected device still. 21:54:10 "ofrnxmr, I thought that was referring to "qr/nfc". And if this is leading to a wallet - how'd you know in advance that what you got wasn't emptied before?" <- if it is not on a chain you can fake it, it is that easy 21:54:46 Yeah, and thus you'd need to still carry a phone and check the "bills" you received from a buyer or the ones the merchant gave you for a change! 21:55:09 "XMR-only life seems dystopian due to tying your finances to Internet and a connected device still." <- not necessarily, still thinking how to improve it easy. And I will come up with solutions. I'm sure and confident on that. 21:55:48 I could easily imagine a more dystopian life than having to use monero. Especially today. Or yesterday. But then it's me I guess. 21:56:08 "Yeah, and thus you'd need to still carry a phone and check the "bills" you received from a buyer or the ones the merchant gave you for a change!" <- phone is only the cheapest option right now, but still right now IMO you payment device could have the size of an RSA token 21:56:44 BlueyHealer: And what restricts you to use every day a new wallet? 21:56:53 Then again, having to use monero to keep an abortion private is kinda dystopian. 21:56:56 moneromooo, true - but that doesn't mean that CASH should be replaced with it! 21:57:06 Also, there would be a problem of scaling. 21:57:18 "hen again, having to use monero to keep an abortion private is kinda dystopian." <- :D 21:58:28 Many people just fail to see how something they see as a threat can be a shield when the shoe in an another foot. And now... the shoe is soon going to be. 21:58:38 on the other 21:58:58 BlueyHealer: I'm facinated about you are so tied to cash. But local currency would be still cash for you or only gov issued cash? 21:59:02 moneromooo, and I wouldn't rely on Monero (or pretty much any technology) to not have undiscovered flaws, or not to get weakened with progress of surveillance tools. So if I were to use Monero (or Tor, or whatever else) for something sensitive, better layer). 21:59:22 For years I've seen monero as a way to hide from fascists when they finally get into power, since they've slowly risen for like 20 years. 22:00:00 vThor, yeah, a non-government-issued cash would be as nice. I am just not sure on the logistics of it. 22:00:42 moneromooo have you noticed that the whole 'digital infrastructure' is controlled by those same fascists? 22:01:07 Were there such examples in history? Would hobbyists be able to protect from counterfeiting on a necessary scale? 22:01:11 look into local currency, I plan to find conntact them on the way and try to convince them to tie the value of there local cash to xr instead of fiat and interconnect local currency. 22:01:15 Hard to miss. Used to be universities and such. 22:01:47 "Were there such examples in history? Would hobbyists be able to protect from counterfeiting on a necessary scale?" <- there is and the note just as (un)proffesional then the gov issued notes... 22:01:54 I would be investing into at the very least a single-board computer as a home server, once I find one for $70 or below :( 22:03:25 vThor, again, not sure how exactly this is doable... But my main point is that a digital payment system MUST NOT become primary. Government, non-government - whatever, as long as it does not tie your finances to the internet and to owning a phone or computer. 22:03:30 https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freitaler unfortunately there is no english tranlation, but firefox, google or local llm should do, try to find pictures. 22:03:57 Local LLM. EEEWWWW 22:03:57 https://monneta.org/en/ 22:05:23 Never heard of this... Will take a look. Forgot German almost entirely, lol 22:05:48 "I would be investing into at the very least a single-board computer as a home server, once I find one for $70 or below :(" <- a mini pc you get normally cheaper, but you get also SBC below that price. 22:07:25 need to go. But I think local issues cash and monero could be complementary how there is an overlap in some targets IMO. 22:09:10 Monero and cash are indeed complementary. Just as long as they're used where they're supposed to. 22:11:06 Also, I would rather have the server fanless, otherwise I know the sound would be bothering me. I know I can be kept up at night by much less noticeable sounds, like the high-pitched singing of a power supply. As for SBCs - I have seen some Raspberries for that price, but I would rather futureproof it and buy more than 1 gig of RAM, and those are either out of stock in the local resellers, or 22:11:07 closer to $100 or above :( 22:38:57 >monneta 22:39:02 "please donate" 22:39:08 >bank transfer and paypal 22:47:17 :D 22:47:26 lol 22:50:03 BlueyHealer: I have a pi 4 2GB with an issue 22:54:11 What issue? 22:54:35 Also yeah, Pis are usually expensive, at least here. Maybe will look at secondhand ones.