08:14:20 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> pls. is there any HAVENO's chat channel for any support on 'haveno'?
08:14:55 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> haveno = haveno reto
08:15:22 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> haveno = haveno-reto
08:23:44 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno Lounge
08:25:22 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> thank U indeed, ofrnxmr
09:00:48 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Are Monero balances documented with the IRS and taxed?
09:03:20 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> elaborate
09:03:38 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> you can always report your finances for tax purposes
09:04:35 <m-relay> <3​21bob321:monero.social> Self reporting
09:05:01 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Got it.
09:05:55 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> if you are asking if any person or agency can know your balance, the answer is no.
09:06:12 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> because Monero is private
09:12:06 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Yeah, okay.
09:13:09 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Do you think storing savings as Monero makes more sense than using a credit union savings account?
09:17:18 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> yes, if you know how to secure it.
09:22:37 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Are you referring to the wallets and keys?
09:23:35 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> yes and device you use to access it
09:28:48 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Yeah, that's all super neurotically complicated. I can only hope to get to that point of competence some day.
09:31:10 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> take your time!
09:32:37 <m-relay> <c​ultparty:matrix.org> Yep.
11:27:41 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Is there a trustworthy public node that supports ZMQ?
11:28:23 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yes, the one you host on your PC
11:28:40 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Thats not public.
11:28:41 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> 😝
11:28:44 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> :)
11:29:04 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Trueeee, the one you host on a VPS then?
11:29:21 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Should I host one on a VPS?
11:30:17 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Is it safe? And legal?
11:30:19 <sech1> But you can host on your PC and make it public :P
11:30:25 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> I host on kyun.host
11:30:26 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Pay xmr
11:31:20 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> You said "trustworthy". The only trustworthy node is the one _you_ trust
11:31:26 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> My opinion is pointless
11:32:47 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yeah but if you want to be secure use tor to sign up to a host like njal.la, kyun.host or privacyhost.cc but tbh I’m not endorsing them per se, they just accept xmr
11:32:53 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Less about legal and more about TOS. There are some vps that dont like nodes
11:33:14 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:monero.social> Servers.guru, crunchbits.com
11:33:33 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yee those too
11:34:25 <m-relay> <s​ervers.guru:matrix.servers.guru> Thanks for the mention! If you need any infos, feel free to reach out.
11:35:22 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Whoever made kyun is extremely creative website looks sick
11:36:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Naphtha
11:38:17 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yes, incredible stuff I sometimes just buy a VPS not because I need it, rather, the athletically pleasing process of ordering it.
11:46:23 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> Do you recommend any host who did not care about the content on they servers as long as no complaint incomes?
11:46:51 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> We all 🖤 naphtha
11:47:49 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> There is Shinjiru but meh, you’ll always need to use a proxy chain to hide it have a base server and a proxy chain rotator of disposable servers
11:48:20 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> That’s the best way of not having the DMCA go to the right host
11:48:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Kyun don't give a f about the content as long as its not Cheeze Pizza. Even if complaints
11:48:50 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> But I wouldn’t recommend hosting stuff that gets you complaints as it’s illegal
11:48:51 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> What about sites on tor network?
11:48:55 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Most of the time
11:49:10 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> I just don't want host with prying eyes
11:49:33 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> If you can convince people to use the tor browser, depends what you’re serving
11:50:54 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> I know  host say they don't allow certain sites on their servers but they are required to say these things. how can i know which host won't fuck me?
11:51:10 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> There are several ways to host privately it just depends on your threat model
11:51:16 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Any host can fuck you
11:51:45 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> There are things you can do to reduce suspicion from the ISP you host with
11:51:51 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> so is it just luck? hoping my host doesn't peek into my servers?
11:53:39 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Some hosts will peak your servers only if red flags pop up, like heavy tor traffic, keywords on the disks for anything related to CP videos or pics, they will see what ports you have open some do deep packet inspection on outgoing traffic for the first few weeks some don’t care
11:56:05 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> I have an almost perfect schematic to hide anything which I might publish when I am not so busy haha /r/privacy if you’re interested, I post there sometimes when I get a chance I’ll post it, but this is kinda off topic, can continue in #monero-offtopic
11:56:58 <m-relay> <t​olousa:matrix.org> okay i will join that room. am very interested in what you just say
11:57:36 <m-relay> <k​ewbit:matrix.org> Yes, one think is for sure, OVH monitor everything you do so don’t even touch it
12:01:33 <hyc> I've been running a wireguard server on my ovh node. I wonder if I should move that somewhere else then?
12:06:42 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> There is no way hyc is alive
12:06:56 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> Its been years since last time I saw you
12:07:03 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> In chat
12:13:18 <nioCat> then you are not in the correct channels  :)
12:13:54 <hyc> lol
12:14:18 <apotheon> Oh, hi, hyc!
12:14:25 <hyc> hey
12:14:42 * moneromooo mooes friendlililily at hyc
12:14:43 <apotheon> I think I briefly met you at the Florida Monerotopia.
12:14:58 <hyc> hm nope, I didn't go to florida
12:15:01 <apotheon> okay
12:15:13 <apotheon> Oh, no, that was . . . a guy whose name I forgot.
12:15:17 <apotheon> sorry
12:15:25 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Days
12:15:26 <moneromooo> Being a programmer, I see these two statements do not conflict. You might have been born in Florida and never left.
12:15:34 <apotheon> It's easy to mix up which is who on IRC sometimes.
12:15:50 <hyc> lol. I also haven't been to any monerotopias
12:16:05 <moneromooo> You.. could have been born... in... ... no.
12:16:11 <apotheon> You're a different person I haven't seen on IRC in a little while.
12:16:15 <hyc> :P
12:17:03 <apotheon> I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't make an impression.  I have no significant presence in Monero circles.
12:17:19 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> I hate you ofrn
12:17:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I hate ofrn too
12:17:45 <m-relay> <s​yntheticbird:monero.social> my men
12:17:54 <apotheon> Oh, hey . . . does anyone know a good source for USD<->Monero exchange rates?
12:18:17 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> My question about "is it safe hosting a node" was more about attackers.
12:18:40 <apotheon> (It suddenly occurred to me this might be the place to find out.)
12:18:50 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What "hacks" are you worried about?
12:19:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Apotheon, depends who you trust
12:19:47 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Coingecko can show you various exchanges rates
12:20:09 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero.boats has the "last" haveno rate
12:20:29 <apotheon> What do you mean by "last"?
12:21:08 <apotheon> . . . and what is Monero.boats?  It seems familiar, but I don't recall where/why.
12:21:41 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Don't know. Just uncertainty.
12:22:00 <m-relay> <d​ave.jp:matrix.org> Last trade
12:23:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I explained monero.boats in the sentence
12:24:52 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> "Last" trade can be a poor metric. Midpoint is probably better. Last can be stale or someone gaming the system. Also trade times are randomized, not "last" might not be "last"
12:27:27 <apotheon> I'd love to see price data coming out of decentralized exchanges, somehow.
12:28:06 <apotheon> On the other hand, I guess that might require piercing the veil a bit, and I hope Monero turns out to be invulnerable to that.
12:28:21 <apotheon> conflicting desires
13:45:45 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> You'll find a wide array of resources on my channel, ranging from 
13:45:46 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Apple Pay
13:45:48 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Apple Product method
13:45:50 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Airb&b
13:45:52 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Bank logs/ bank drops
13:45:54 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Bank open UPS
13:45:56 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Carding
13:45:58 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Chime transfer 
13:46:00 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Cashapp 
13:46:02 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Clone card
13:46:04 <m-relay> <t​hegy.nick.dixon:matrix.org> 💎Credit Cards( Cvv )
14:50:38 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> Is there a recommended monerod for docker?
14:53:45 <meidam> is feather wallet good for any kind of crypto coin?
14:53:56 <meidam> Yes, I am a noob
14:54:40 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> Monero only
14:56:31 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> https://github.com/sethforprivacy/simple-monerod-docker
14:56:44 <m-relay> <x​n0px:matrix.org> kewbit.org:  Interested in QubesOS Haveno XMR bounty!
14:57:13 <meidam> ah okay
14:59:44 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> 17e there's https://monerosuite.org/
15:01:40 <m-relay> <1​7e:matrix.org> awesome!
15:06:26 <meidam> Any recommended crypto exchanges? I guess I need to use one to get any xmr. The wallet is only for storing, receiving and sending, right?
15:07:18 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> yes
15:07:31 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> you can mine it too
15:07:35 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> using https://gupax.io/
15:07:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Using fiat?
15:08:22 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The emphasis on "crypto" exchanges sounds like you dont need to use fiat, and want to swap crypto > xmr?
15:08:23 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> I am trying to install "**SimpleX**" on a Debian 12.8 (bookworm), but it fails because some "old" libraries are missing (such as **libjpeg-turbo8**): basically Debian 12.8 replaced some "old" libraries by the newest version one;  Any hint/suggestion?
15:09:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Install method?
15:09:49 <m-relay> <x​n0px:matrix.org> Just ldd and find libs, depends, etc:.
15:10:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> #monero-offtopic:monero.social rho
15:11:00 <meidam> I didn't emphasize on crypto to say from other crypto to xmr. I was actually mostly interested in exchanging fiat into xmr. I don't know the correct lingo
15:11:18 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> sudo apt install ./simplex-desktop-ubuntu-22_04-x86_64.deb
15:11:18 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> but even the next one failed
15:11:20 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> sudo dpkg install -i simplex-desktop-ubuntu-22_04-x86_64.deb
15:11:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats ubuntu deb
15:11:41 <meidam> But thanks for the mining software recommendation. pretty cool
15:11:46 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> And 22.04.
15:11:51 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Not even latest ubuntu lts
15:12:48 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> For fiat exchanges.. idk. Whatever one youre comfortable kycing on. Kraken, kucoin, mexc
15:13:08 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Haveno if you already have some xmr and want to go p2p
15:13:40 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> that is true, but the homepage of "simpleX" states that it is for Debian as well ofrnxmr
15:13:57 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> is the source code for https://gupax.io/ website open source? hinto
15:13:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> 22.04 is like debian 10
15:14:24 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Gupaxx is the new version. Rando
15:14:51 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> it is a fork with gambling, right?
15:14:58 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> Linux: AppImage or Flatpak (most Linux distros), Ubuntu 20.04 (and Debian-based distros),
15:15:09 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Its a fork that is updated as well
15:15:35 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The deb says 22.04 but the description sats 20.04? Link me
15:16:16 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/releases/latest/download/simplex-desktop-x86_64.AppImage
15:16:25 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> upstream is abandoned?
15:16:54 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> I think so
15:18:04 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> This doesnt work?
15:19:18 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> https://simplex.chat/downloads/
15:19:48 <m-relay> <b​asses:matrix.org> just use flatpak
15:20:27 <m-relay> <p​ullerchen:matrix.org> I shall try that, thank U
15:28:34 <meidam> simplex's support for using the same account on your phone and computer is pretty bad. Do you have separate users for your different machines?
15:48:00 <meidam> Would it be a privacy concern if I buy xmr and other coins with the same exchange (for example kraken)? And then store xmr in, like, feather wallet, and store the others in another wallet?
15:56:07 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> EAE attack - only if you send those monero back to kraken someone that kraken shared your tx info with
15:56:16 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> EAE attack - only if you send those monero back to kraken or to someone that kraken shared your tx info with
15:58:13 <meidam> Hmmm okay. So if I happened to want to exchange xmr to fiat again, then I should not use a separate exchange for that
15:58:25 <meidam> Thanks
15:59:41 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> depends what youre trying to hide
16:01:21 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> if you want to exchange it for fiat, i'd highly recommend selling on haveno p2p, and getting more $ for your xmr
16:02:34 <meidam> Ah okay. Specifically for selling
16:03:10 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Yes
16:04:13 <meidam> Okay, good to know. Thanks
18:34:55 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> in theory, should say kraken be your only exchange account linked to your bank, you obfuscate if not break the EAE trail by sending your outputs to a different exchange, waiting for a bit, and then withdrawing them again right?
18:35:35 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> unless the second exchange is colluding with kraken, or your outputs are tracked by a third party gathering info from both exchanges?
18:36:36 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> but i would think the output you receive back from the second exchange would have a different transaction graph trail
19:43:09 <m-relay> <j​effro256:monero.social> You can obfuscate against an EAE attack by churning to yourself first before
20:03:41 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> but if you churn once then send back to kraken, they can still discern the path
20:04:31 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> if they had no context it'd be 1/16 chance, but with context there's basically no probable deniability
20:05:03 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> what i'm wondering is if going to an intermediary exchange is functionally like an output mixer, even if it is obviously "trustful"
20:06:25 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> not perfect but at least provides relatively more deniability
20:06:29 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> assuming the 2nd exchange isnt compliant
20:06:55 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> exactly
20:07:00 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> The only truly safe churn, is to get new monero
20:08:36 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> so if you absolutely had to resell XMR you bought off kraken recently and maybe spent once in short order, then depositing to kucoin and waiting a day or so before withdrawing and sending back to kraken would probably be the move
20:08:56 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> and this would only be applicable to CEXes, not DEXes since the latter is a self-custodial wallet
20:08:59 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> kucoin is kyc
20:09:44 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> sure, but i'm speaking of just obfuscating the transaction graph to the exchange that's linked to your bank account
20:10:02 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> likely to report the amounts and link the in/out tx
20:10:07 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> but yeah, using a non-KYC exchange might be safer in some regards, albeit riskier in others
20:11:01 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> and this scenario is really more to defend against passive surveillance, if your outputs are actively targeted because say you're under investigation by LEO then this wouldn't be much of an improvement if any
22:11:20 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> what's the best most lightweight linux desktop client? cli ok
22:11:54 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> I am saying wallet, I don't want to run a full node.
22:13:38 <m-relay> <j​ivan:opaline.uk> @imprevisto:matrix.org What have you tried so far, and why hasn't it been sufficiently lightweight (by whatever metric you care about — please elaborate) for you?
22:15:26 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> I have used a flatpak GUI app, I think maybe it was an official app, not feather
22:16:31 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> GUI and Flatpak are both not needed for me, but if that's easiest, okay. also I would try feather if people in this room like it more for some reason
22:19:45 <Snipa> I mostly just use the CLI wallet extracted from a tarball tbh.
22:31:07 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> the most lightweight is definitely monero-wallet-cli, which can be used with a remote node.  feather however is also nice, lightweight by default and you can even disable the stuff it has that aren't core wallet features to make it moreso
22:33:16 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> thank you snipa and umask777 .. with the monero-wallet-cli, do I need to run and control a full node?
22:33:44 <Snipa> You need to connect to a full node with wallet-cli, yes, if you need to control it or not is up to you.
22:35:43 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> so I understand I could just choose a public node with monero-wallet-cli, make rpc requests etc
22:35:50 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> cool thank you
22:36:01 <Snipa> There's a few lists of them out there, I don't have them handy but someone else might. :)
22:38:03 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Feather wallets list is probably a good start
22:38:06 <m-relay> <i​mprevisto:matrix.org> thanks :)
22:51:19 <spiffyhippo> for US folks, how are you cashing out XMR to USD? ive been going xmr -> atmoic wallet swap to XLM -> coinbase -> bank and im pretty sure this is as cheap as I can get it
23:26:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> What the heck is atomic wallet
23:27:01 <as2333> thermonuclear wallet
23:30:27 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> you're probably paying a decent fee for the XLM swap
23:30:50 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> plus, you're touching XLM 🤮
23:33:23 <m-relay> <o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> he should have used xrp > xlm /s
23:37:41 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> if you're in the US and not in a communist state like CA or NY, you'd be better using the XMR/USD pair on Kraken
23:38:34 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> or just use Haveno if you don't mind the worse UX
23:39:18 <m-relay> <u​mask777:decred.org> either would definitely be cheaper than using whatever instant swap service atomic wallet has to go into XLM first