02:23:52 So its not btcs peeps who made some good gains moving over to xmr? 02:25:16 No 02:25:44 No, btc peeps would buy meme coins 02:30:44 True i cant wrap head around why it pumped up so quickly. I took advantage of the pump and paid for whole year of vpn subscription 04:30:32 maybe someone noticed that other altcoins had pumped and monero had not, and thought they could make money pumping it 04:33:19 My personal hypothesis is that the Bitcoin bullrun is over since it won't go to 100k, so people go to altcoins instead and XMR is one of the only top 50 that hasn't pumped yet, so it might seem like a good gamble. 04:34:19 But since it's speculation money that won't stay it'll deflate back to the natural price based on supply and demand. As long as the daily transaction (adoption) doesn't go up I don't see the actual price of Monero raising. 04:34:41 Daily transactions and daily price has been stable for years after all. 04:35:16 But since it's speculation money that won't stay it'll deflate back to the natural price based on supply and demand. As long as the daily transaction (adoption) doesn't go up I don't see the actual price of Monero rising. 06:26:11 after 0 talk at crypto at work. the other day workmate said have you been following cryptp market. yeah its crazy. pitty the only coin i care about doesnt pump is because its private and its delisted everywhere and i dont bother recommending anything to anyone cos its all bullshit.. *a few hours later* fucker pumps. 06:46:28 i think the same 06:47:07 this is why we didnt pump / dumped in the beginning while btc went up 06:47:09 people selling XMR for BTC 06:47:24 then once they see it cant make it past 100k, even with the saylor ponzi at full blast, they went back into XMR with their gains 06:47:52 at least monero will never pump as hard as the other coins, even if it too goes up occasionally 06:48:11 never say never! 06:48:40 this could go so much higher once we have serai 06:49:02 Its just that people have not realized that monero is closest in resemblance to what real money was supposed to be.. 06:49:08 Maybe one day they will 06:49:45 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ChrXXCjrCZrPvvuZtmtBISGA 06:49:47 all of these are kyc only right? 06:50:08 ogre only had 4.5 million in volume across btc and xmr 06:50:10 ogre only had 4.5 million in volume across btc and usdt 06:50:29 i looked at the books during the pump and that shit empty 06:50:46 more or less yes, at least the first 4 are! 06:50:55 the r/xmrtrader guys who kept talking about coins running out are probably on to something 06:51:43 maybe! or guys not selling 06:52:44 have a small ridiculously high sell order on ogre! 06:56:46 https://www.okx.com/learn/what-is-altcoin-season-path-to-altseason 06:57:32 its not unlikely to get hit 06:57:47 one big marketorder on ogre can wipe the orderbook clean 06:59:00 Yep! Its for speculative purposes. 07:00:48 It's pretty interesting idea. Do you think many people will start using Monero after this pump? 07:04:34 No. They have no reason to. 07:06:09 Governments and regulators dont want to touch anything "untraceable" 07:06:23 Cause they think folks will evade taxes that way 07:07:18 Convenience is king. 07:07:19 95% of people don't care if their clothes and electronics are made in a slave shop in an enemy state then sold to them via a gigacorpo that will spy on them and sell their data. 07:07:21 If it's convenient and doesn't affect them directly, people will keep doing so. 07:07:32 If they have no real reason to use Monero, they won't. 07:08:16 That number will reduce with time 07:08:37 Why would it? 07:09:23 I don't expect Monero to grow significantly, because I don't expect privacy to be important enough for people to forgo convenience. 07:10:08 So why do you use Monero? 07:10:18 Things might change if states become more tyrannical and the fiat system becomes too inconvenient for people to use, but we're not there. 07:10:49 Yep! thats why 07:11:21 A couple of Governments are slowly becoming that way... 07:11:51 Controlling every little aspect of their citizens... 07:11:53 Me personally? I'm both a privacy enthusiast, a tech enthusiast, and I used to buy some stuff that was only bought with Monero 07:12:40 I like the Privacy part 07:12:55 I always tell my wife that she doesn't really want Monero to grow very big, because if it does it means things are really bad in real life 07:13:19 Cause once some right dude with crypto realizes that anyone can figure out how much they hold by just revealing their public address, 07:13:38 they might start rethinking what they want public 07:14:45 People have been saying that for years and the reality is that no one cares. 07:15:05 We've been able to see the Bitcoin wallets of everyone for a long time and no one cares. 07:15:34 Yes but maybe you are in a secure country. 07:15:52 So the point you make to you wife is very real.. 07:16:14 In some places, people shoot you for less that $1000 07:18:00 I've been an annoying friend and forcing my friends to make a Monero wallet for me to pay for my share or dinner or vice versa, they do it to humor me and they actually like the privacy part but they call it too bothersome to actually use it and go back to Venmo or Revolut each other because it's easier and they can spend the fiat on everything. 07:18:22 Sadly, people that have nothing to hide don't care about hiding stuff. 07:18:54 Well yeah, but everyone knows you're rich when you have rich clothes, cars, watches, phones, houses, and everything is fine as well. 07:18:56 we might not live long enough to see its usefulness but still it matters 07:19:08 Just the same way Satoshi started btc 07:19:16 governments don't want to let people have financial privacy, so they ban monero and restrict the use of cash and most people just accept it 07:19:20 People said something similar... 07:19:54 I don't need to see the BTC wallet of a dude to know he's rich if I see his luxury car. I could also just steal his car or threaten him into going to an ATM. It's not different. 07:20:30 My belief is that Monero hasn't grown in years (no increase in daily transactions) because it has already filled its niche. 07:21:00 Of course you are right! 07:21:07 Now, maybe the niche itself will grow in the future, but I don't believe Monero will be used outside of it. 07:22:29 Change is always a good thing.... 07:22:37 until its not.. 07:24:27 Smart kids in the future will figure something out.... 07:25:34 Sure. They'll have to if the state starts to force everyone to abandon bank bills and just use apps to pay everywhere, like Paypay in China. 07:26:33 A buddy of mine back then 10 years ago was doing a Financial thesis on btc and told me about it. I never cared then. 07:27:07 Anyway my point is that the next 10 years will be something totally different from now. 07:47:55 The problem is the general public have no idea about privacy how government uses our data to control us etc.. but slowly this privacy education is starting to spread this will then trickle down to usage of monero etc.. its a long term project but we need to have the infrastructure in place for when people will reach out use monero etc.. 09:50:47 Surprise, surprise, now with the bad, bad Chinese breathing down their neck, the FBI wants encryption: 09:50:48 https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/security/us-officials-urge-americans-use-encrypted-apps-cyberattack-rcna182694 09:51:24 A glitch in the Matrix, perhaps? :) 09:51:45 Do they urge to use the "right" encryption that sends the key out to the "right" people? 09:52:57 Well, the Chinese probably entered through such officially mandated backdoors in the first place, so who in their right mind would ask "More such backdoors please" 09:54:15 At least people with a few working brain cells left would probably scratch their heads ... 10:40:19 Matrix, hehe) 10:49:30 us: bans encryption 10:49:35 china: spies on us 10:49:41 us: suprised pikachu 10:59:50 Not sure they can ban it even if they wanted lol 11:00:03 *ban it if they wanted 11:15:36 not a complete ban but they have placed restrictions on it before and they suggest new restrictions now and then 11:21:38 Modern fairy tale No 37: Government mandated backdoors are safe and only get used under strictly controlled circumstances, only with permit from a judge 11:31:52 yeah or when some group of teenage hackers make emergency information requests to facebook 11:42:56 Or if the info is just bought. 13:39:58 Serious question: has anyone looked into how Monero could keep running in the case of an internet failure? (This doesn’t just include the internet completely dying because of a catastrophe; it also includes critical functions of the network being suppressed by ISPs or other threat actors) 13:41:37 Because even in the case of a temporary failure or blockade for portions of the network, if the failure occurred for long enough it would almost certainly cause the network to fragment beyond failure if different chains were being added to during said failure 13:49:04 ISPs get rekt by encrypted node traffic 13:49:24 you can in theory make traffic look like regular internet traffic 13:50:09 wasnt necessary so far because if running a node is not allowed where you are, you likely would use them over tor. 13:51:03 surviving and recovering from such an event is exactly what pow blockchains were designed for 13:51:32 worst case, the portion of the network that got cut off gets deeply reorged 13:52:11 in theory there is even an incentive for miners to get in on that splintered network 13:52:24 Yeah, good thing Tor bridges are also evolving, like with Webtunnel! 13:52:33 if you are the only miner with access to both splits, you can mine the transactions nobody else can see 13:52:51 Thank goodness ISPs can’t refuse to allow encrypted communications 13:52:53 and in the end the longest chain wins 13:53:14 What happens to the shorter chain? 13:53:33 gets dropped 13:53:52 preland, and thank goodness for the multitude of protocols that allow mimicking a normal TLS connection! 13:54:00 And what happens to the transactions that are unique to it? Do they get dropped? 13:54:16 correct. 13:54:24 its not great 13:54:54 And if the shorter chain doesn’t want them dropped…..hard fork time 13:55:13 but it works and so far none of these horror scenarios have happened in any crypto 13:55:16 yeah 13:55:25 or 13:55:45 you have someone in the isolated network re-broadcasting transactions onto the non-isolated one 13:56:02 then they get mined on both chains 13:56:07 I guess my main question would be this then: is it even worth it to try to plan for a scenario where Monero is effectively blacklisted from the internet? 13:56:10 and when the short chain gets dropped, the transactions are still recorded 13:56:24 not right now 13:56:30 the internet is still way too open 13:56:32 HOW would you blacklist Monero? 13:57:12 Is the node traffic that recognizable? And even if it is - it would run over Tor, or over VLESS/XTLS/whatever 13:57:18 as long as i connect to russian peers while torrenting, the internet is free enough for at least 1 connection to make it through 13:57:26 Anything that could be vague or hiding data gets either backdoored or explicitly banned (guilty until proven innocent at best) 13:57:27 See: ameteur radio in the US 13:57:34 Yes its "that recognizable" 13:57:37 you only need 1 person/node to link both networks and relay transactions 13:57:45 Guilty until proven innocent? Used to that status. 13:58:28 preland, amateur radio is explicitly prohibited encryption though, while the Internet is overwhelmingly encrypted and in a current landscape cannot go back. 13:59:15 I guess 13:59:51 the S&P 500 would tank so hard if you tried to remove internet encryption at scale 13:59:56 the world can not go back 14:00:09 at least for now 14:00:32 i can see them go "ok online banking is encrypted but only when the bank registered their app with the backdoor department" 14:00:53 Yeah, exactly. 14:00:55 Kazakhstan? 14:01:11 to protect the children & fight terrorists 14:02:13 What I am afraid of is indeed disallowing everything they cannot decrypt, but that would require cutting off everyone who doesn't use the government-controlled CA, which even they are not willing to do because it would break WAY too much. 14:02:15 I mean that’s kinda why they blocked it in ameteur radio, “because it would make law enforcement’s job harder” 14:02:15 Also something about interference, but if that was the issue they could’ve just disallowed that (which they did) 14:03:24 In amateur radio I guess it is also a cultural thing - a lot of amateurs do want to be able to communicate with everybody and not get locked out of an encrypted channel. But yeah, probably mostly law enforcement. 14:25:01 with radio you have limited amounts of channels, right? 14:41:55 preland good discussion about this topic 14:42:14 . 14:43:44 We need traffic shaping like BitTorrent clients do 15:10:58 yes, but even for high density comms like FT8 you cannot use any form of encryption. 16:20:43 That's actually the reason why I am not into amateur radio anymore, another being prohibited pseudonymity. Realized it did not fit my newer special interests. 16:24:44 Iptables -t FORWARD --dport 18080 -j DROP (isp magic one-liner) 16:26:56 Why doing dpe and ho nooooo, its encrypted!!! 16:26:57 Just block 1808*. If they want to block monero, its what they are going to do. 16:27:41 It's just a default port number, you can change it in the command line 16:28:24 Yeah, nodes should really do more of that. 16:29:17 Or node code should do automatic. 16:29:19 Use 18080 and an extra random port number or something like that 16:32:54 Afaik bitorrent now use random number especially because ISP twarting them. 16:32:55 Its up to the operator to see what port it is and unblock it / route it 16:35:06 My ISP does not thwart Bittorrent... But only on download! The upload is slow as balls!! 16:35:33 I hope this is just me not being as needed as a peer though, because I have seen decent upload speeds a while ago. 16:35:53 the isp mafia has been 'traffic shapping' bittorrent for the past 20 years 16:35:54 Usenet always win 16:45:46 Usenet is paid tho 20:47:07 Seth For Privacy: MRL will urge node operators to enable a spy node ban list. Would you be willing to add the ban list to your `monerod` Docker? Here's a draft of the announcement: https://gist.github.com/Rucknium/76edd249c363b9ecf2517db4fab42e88 20:47:54 Yes, would prefer if I didn't have to load the file though, is there a DNS version of the ban list available yet? 20:49:09 the DNS list needs to support larger ban lists (will require some slight modifications to monerod) so not at this time 20:49:19 Seth For Privacy: Thank you! The DNS ban list is full. It can't add more IP addresses. selsta can explain.... 20:49:30 Ah, yes plowsof can explain too 20:50:11 selsta can explain* indeed 20:53:53 i guess it's already explained :D we need to put out an update first to fix it 20:56:16 Ah, in that case I'll do my best to bake in the ban list file! Shouldn't be too complex, will try to get it knocked out tomorrow or perhaps tonight. 20:58:51 Seth For Privacy: Awesome. Thanks so much! 21:21:18 <-coffeeplease-:monero.social> I'm currently using this ban list: `https://gui.xmr.pm/files/block.txt`. Should I change to the ban list mentioned in the announcement? 21:24:51 -coffeeplease-: IIRC, that ban list was merged into boog900 . I think boog900 or selsta can confirm. 21:25:26 the one linked above is complete 21:25:31 (gui.xmr.pm) 21:26:17 my one only contains peers that I found were proxies 21:26:21 Are you not able to use multiple ban lists? 21:26:57 How were the nodes even discovered to be just proxies? 21:27:21 please tune me when you it's ready I'll post it on Reddit 21:27:35 heuristics - it would be like an open source anti cheat to reveal publicly 21:27:57 <-coffeeplease-:monero.social> Thanks! I updated my ban list a while ago with `gui.xmr.pm`. Needs another update I guess? 21:28:05 How do you determine if the node even is a real node or a proxy? 21:28:23 general install info: OK. I may try to post it on Reddit and then you can approve it. It will be a few days at least 21:28:40 https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/126 21:28:47 blueyhealer https://www.digilol.net/blog/chainanalysis-malicious-xmr.html 21:29:12 BlueyHealer: Definitely the subnet saturation is a good indicator: https://gist.github.com/Rucknium/76edd249c363b9ecf2517db4fab42e88 21:36:34 That's true but blocks are cheap! 22:08:21 When https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/7935 22:10:03 elongated: MRL is expected to research that in 1-2 months to make sure the benefits outweigh the risks. 22:12:40 Auto ban asn of blackhole nodes should be on the list, also this can be provided as a option and not enabled by default like the ban list 22:21:38 In other news: pool (Monero community workgroup) is closed due to aids (a gigantic debate over ccs stuff) 22:21:39 (No this is not a invitation to continue it here, do not) 22:58:30 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/monero.social/RAnzprSDevKxSmrxSctartbB 23:35:44 I found a fed node ip: 162.218.65.219 23:37:21 its connecting to all my monero nodes. And it seems to be a distributed ip with locations in Portland and virginia and DC. 23:39:18 in fact if you run multible nodes you should check all the ips connected to your p2p port with the ss command. Combine the ip list from all your nodes and sort them, remove ips with only 1 incidence. 23:39:52 If you find an ip with a high incidence count this can be unusual. They can be snooping your nodes to try to break dandelion++