07:12:19 Any good alternative for samourai wallet for processing tainted btc? 07:26:27 rub it in kim chi 07:26:44 rub it in kimchi 07:41:24 Can't you just swap it for Monero and call it a day? 07:47:17 Well what if I am receiving tainted btc as a monero seller? 07:56:24 if the risk of receiving tainted btc in you use case is high, then only accept xmr and make the swap the buyers problem 07:58:34 alternatively price it it, and ask for much more btc value then xmr value. If you have a unique produced/service you can also increase prices overall, and offer a steep discount on buying with xmr. 08:02:16 Perhaps you could buy into XMR on RetoSwap, which since it's a p2p exchange, your counterparties are much less likely to enact automatic, opaque KYC/AML regimes. And if they do, you can open a dispute 08:30:40 Best place to buy XMR with AUD? 09:09:35 Either Reto Swap for P2P, or buy LTC on a regular CEX and swap it for Monero on a swap service like Trocador. 09:14:17 CEX would ask for KYC so utterly unacceptable 15:06:59 Fly to Dubai, buy any coin for cash as much as you want 15:14:12 u sure they dont require KYC? 15:19:30 it would be a p2p transaction in person 15:19:39 and no, there would be no kyc with cash 15:19:57 dubai is the money laundering capital of the world 15:20:14 they barely conduct checks when people purchase property 15:21:27 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1izhfp6/build_monero_as_if_peoples_lives_depend_on_it/ 15:21:36 Yes 15:23:02 I wonder how big the purchase would have to be? On our exchange aggregator, the minimum amount in cash was enormous, like $1000 minimum :( 15:23:12 And even then at least some I checked did require KYC. 15:25:35 Spam 15:26:11 A few million 15:26:20 what? 15:26:34 there's always someone who will do it sans kyc 15:26:56 Yes, you can buy without kyc ; bring in big suitcases 15:27:44 If you have right contacts you can do it in your city 15:28:17 1-2% premium to handle cash 15:28:37 ^ 15:29:00 I do buy in cash from a contact. And there indeed is a slight premium. I just mean that I have not seen global offers for, say, $50. 15:29:51 oh, $50... 15:30:14 Nobody is interested in $50 trades 15:30:16 i've never checked at that price point 15:30:20 source? 15:30:30 First hand experience 15:30:38 any p2p in person will not have kyc 15:30:55 you checked openmonero? 15:31:21 that's what i said, offer cash in person and there's no need for kyc 15:31:28 the scam? 15:31:30 but that depends on where you are 15:31:39 is it a scam? 15:31:39 what makes it so? 15:31:44 localmonero scam clone 15:31:54 it's a clone, doesn't make it a scam 15:32:15 cex or p2p? 15:32:23 p2p 15:32:41 it's a needed platform 15:33:00 hi kewbit 15:33:02 it's not as if the person behind it hid where he took the design from, they gave credit 15:33:16 It’s centralized, it’s not a online exchange; physical offices; so you can say p2p 15:33:24 Nobody is interested in $50 trades <- But this is the volume normal poor people would use Monero at! So there is demand. 15:33:35 oh, yes 15:33:47 Go sell goods n services for $50 15:33:56 sell your ass 15:34:00 $100, easy 15:34:26 You are absolutely disgusting. 15:34:46 ;) 15:34:47 Also women suffer in such types of jobs, y'know? This is kind of insensitive to jokingly offer. 15:34:59 who said anything about women? 15:35:08 Men suffer too 15:35:20 Men are the ones who exploit them for their sick pleasure. 15:35:48 /html >recommends openmonero 15:36:14 But whatever, anyway. I was lucky to have found $50 offers, but I have not seen such on aggregators. 15:36:28 have you used openmonero basses? 15:37:34 no 15:37:52 I don't use scams 15:38:35 oi vey 15:38:46 it's not a scam if it's a legitimate service 15:38:53 it's a clone that you do not like 15:39:00 it's not the same thing 15:39:49 hashem | who said anything about women? <- btw why do you just assume everyone in the chat is men? 15:40:26 i don't care what gender anyone is 15:40:29 it's all the same to me 15:46:23 ok this was just about a particular remark. Sure, whatever. 17:04:36 hashem that guy's lies about other platform makes it a scam and illustrates he's not capable of maintaining such a site 18:41:24 NorrinRadd: what did he lie about? 18:42:40 calling every other platform a scam / centralized / not secure / java is spyware, all types of crazy shit that any competent dev would never say 18:55:09 right, it's ridiculous! No one would use Java for a spyware, it would be instantly detected through the gigabytes of garbage collection 19:01:43 This is an incorrect thought process. Consider: 19:01:54 No one would use Windows for a spyware, it would be instantly detected through the gigabytes of garbage. 19:01:57 And yet... 19:09:08 ouch you are right 20:05:37 you lost me 20:08:55 Rucknium: new dsa will keep effecting ring size high, even during spam attacks ? 20:14:44 elongated: "effecting" == "effective", I assume. Even a good DSA cannot overcome a black marble spam attack. My estimate of the suspected attack's impact on effective ring size last year assumed that there were no problems with the DSA (in reality, there are problems with the current DSA): https://github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/blob/main/Monero-Black-Marble-Flood/pdf/monero-bl 20:14:46 ack-marble-flood.pdf 20:15:04 Increasing the nominal ring size could be an effective countermeasure: https://github.com/Rucknium/misc-research/blob/main/Monero-Black-Marble-Flood/pdf/monero-black-marble-optimal-fee-ring-size.pdf 20:18:05 In theory, if you had an "oracle" DSA that could someone completely avoid black marbles, then that would help. But I don't see a feasible way to create something like that. The adversary would be able to see the exclusion criteria in the open source code anyway, and devise their own counterstrategy. 20:19:28 So we need new dsa + a ring size bump for a higher effective ring-size during black marble spam attack. 20:19:28 Now that fcmp actual mainnet is a year+ away, we should start prepping for HF ? 20:19:30 Is xmr a sitting lame duck with current dsa ? 20:21:42 When I brought up a possible hard fork last year, there wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for it in #MRL 20:22:07 I mean, a posisble hard fork to increase nominal ring size and deploy the OSPEAD-derived DSA 20:22:43 Yes bcoz fcmp was a low hanging fruit at that time ? Now that it’s far away and anyone with your report can do better chain analysis of xmr with current dsa. 20:23:57 Would you personally still like a HF or wait for fcmp ? 20:24:41 fcmp is getting closer, not further away 20:25:04 it was never low hanging fruit, however it generally considered to be the solution 20:25:27 18months minimum 20:26:29 Effective ringsize without black marble attack was presumed to 16 , now it’s 4 ? 20:27:09 Fcmp was 12-15 months away at that time 20:27:15 The other issue last year was that the spam incident uncovered performance issues with Monero nodes. And with larger ring size, the stress could be higher. But we ran a stressnet to track down some of the performance bottlenecks 20:27:18 And the time away is still same 20:28:14 Bottlenecks are fixed now ? Can handle higher ringsize? Bigger txs like fcmp would too 20:28:35 doesn't matter, it's code complete and passing audits. just audits & integration at this point. 20:28:45 & HF 20:29:01 in fact it was code complete earlier than i expected it 20:29:17 Code is complete? Where is this testnet? 20:29:40 not integrated yet 20:33:24 Do we want another 15-18 months of user transaction to be vulnerable ? Or you want to push a half baked fcmp without comprehensive audits and testing ? Just to rush a release bcoz we never hf for dsa/increased ring size 20:34:16 Push better dsa + bump ringsize; give breathing room for fcmp development 20:34:50 hf for ring size change is not worth it imo. too close to fcmp 20:35:30 too many HFs back to back is not good for the ecosystem. 20:35:33 Not worth ? It’s a requirement for privacy lol 20:35:39 Remember seraphis? 20:35:53 Ledger has to update. Trezor has to update. the 3 CEXs have to update. all wallets have to update. 20:35:56 just not worth it 20:36:08 What is too many ? It can be done in 6 months and fcmp in 18months ; that is not too many 20:36:21 There are a few more complications 20:36:22 https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20240529#c382452 20:36:24 https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20240529#c382463-c382464 20:36:28 Hard forks work surprisingly smoothly - they just expose the garbage services 20:36:41 Previous one was even duh 20:37:09 I don't know the status of RPC and p2p operations blocking each other in the CPU. AFAIK, there were a few fixed proposed and/or implemented after the stressnet. 20:38:54 The more efficient tx broadcasting proposal is here: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/9334 20:38:56 0xfffc planned to work on it, but I don't know the current status. It would need a lot of testing because it's an essential node function. 20:41:28 ^that doesn’t need consensus ? and can be implemented later on 20:43:38 The time we are taking to release 0.18.4.0 ; imagine the time for fcmp+wallets 😅 20:43:40 HF asap with new dsa + nominal ringsize increase and bring back some lost trust 20:44:37 Another complication is that OSPEAD doesn't work as well on a dynamic real spend distribution, compared to a static one. The "S" in OSPEAD stands for "static". I performed my final estimates based on a static distribution of aggregated behavior for all weeks Aug 2022 to Oct 2024. The fitted new DSA would reduce attack success on that static distribution to 7.6%, compared to the st 20:44:38 atus quo attack success of 23.5%. I estimated it on the static distribution because I assumed that it would be deployed with FCMP, which basically would have a static distribution to attack. 20:45:15 https://old.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1izhfp6/build_monero_as_if_peoples_lives_depend_on_it/ 20:45:16 Erc is back 20:45:27 Spam don’t report 20:46:19 I don't have final results for this, but IIRC when I was testing outthe OSPEAD-derived DSA against a dynamic real spend distribution (i.e. the distribution changes every week, the attack success was about 11%. I created animated plots to visualize how much the distribution changes from week to week: https://rucknium.github.io/OSPEAD/CCS-milestone-2/OSPEAD-docs/_book/real-spend-vis 20:46:20 ualization.html#animations 20:46:55 It's harder to hit a moving target 20:47:29 So new dsa is actually designed for fcmp ? Can it still give better effective ringsize if we bump nominal ringsize 20:47:43 Or, well, when your shield needs to be stationary and the target is moving, then the shooter can hit the target more easily because the target moves beyond the shield sometimes. 20:47:47 Spam don’t repost 20:49:06 Is it a lost cause ? Should we go back to using physical cash? 20:50:23 elongated: You can easily calculate the effect of a different nominal ring size on the attack success probability by changing the `M` exponent in equation 12.1 here: https://rucknium.github.io/OSPEAD/CCS-milestone-2/OSPEAD-docs/_book/parametric-fit.html#eq-map-decoder-simple 20:54:10 well... Monero is doing great on dev and research side, just lacks about everything other than that. Rather than complaining, we can be more transparent about the issues we faced and try to prevent same issues from happening in the future. Also, refresh repos and organize it. We can ask for help with a Reddit post etc. 20:54:57 Did I forget to define `M` in that equation? Anyway, `M` is the number of decoys in a ring. 20:55:05 That should a reply there on Reddit ? Not here? 20:55:35 I can't use Reddit 20:57:22 >A well motivated journalist can kill Monero and make it untouchable for regular folks by simply digging into it. There are enough shady situations to make super easy to distrust the project. A few notable examples: 20:57:24 Also not true, (they) already giving Monero a bad press with reporting about only "bad usecases" of Monero when a large of it is not as you can see from the community engaging in normal activities. 21:01:07 Well they can frighten away actual monero users with technical details like effective ringsize of 4 and some fud about core and stuff or how some community members don’t want to HF and are compromised; just more research and has a nice article backdrop can be fluffy story lol 21:01:33 Title : Monero is Compromised 21:01:54 that would have been a straight FUD article 21:02:05 Sure 21:06:22 <0​xfffc:monero.social> Just a quick news: I am running extremely behind schedule! My sincere apologies, there has been going on alot in my personal life recently. 21:07:15 0xfffc: That's totally fine :) 21:07:16 It wasn't given a specific priority at the time that you volunteered to do it :)