03:06:11 Hello, I started a Kraken account to buy some Monero. 03:08:08 I have it set to buy $300 worth at $150. 03:08:34 you'll be waiting a long time, i think 03:09:06 Should set it to buy $300 worth at $300 03:09:42 Well, I'm not in any hurry, and I can change the price after I figure out some kind of a strategy. 03:10:30 And if it happens to crash, I'll be very happy! 03:11:44 I'm not too sanguine about fiat currency. 03:13:25 I'm thinking about getting my social security $1300 / mo, and putting it into monero. Investment / mad money. 03:14:09 My military pension covers my expenses quite well. 03:15:50 I don't think I really want to leave thousands of dollars on Kraken. 03:19:53 You could always erect a buy offer on haveno 😂 03:20:06 Not your keys means it's not your coin 03:21:09 What would be a good combination of hardware and software wallets, and printing stuff out and leaving it in a safe place, to keep me from accidentally loosing my money? 03:21:25 Cmos Yes, exactly. 03:23:32 Haveno??? 03:28:07 Is there a better way to buy that amount of monero each month? 03:32:53 I run various flavors of GNU/Linux on my laptops, and have a reasonably new android phone. (a couple actually) 03:40:18 Could I get a couple of links to help me start my research? 04:39:46 At a minimum, make sure to verify the integrity and authenticity of any wallet(s) you decide to use. 04:39:47 Wallet developers will typically sign a message that states the wallet file hash. 04:39:49 Use GPG verification to check whether or not the message is signed by the developer. If verification passes (the signature is authentic), then hash the downloaded wallet file. Compare the hash to the hash in the developer's signed message. 04:39:51 If you get an invalid signature or hashes don't match, investigate further and do not install the wallet. 04:39:53 For hardware, I'd make sure to follow whatever procedures are available to check firmware integrity of the hardware wallet. 04:39:55 For printing or paper wallets: take caution when storing plain-text seed phrases. Consider making a Monero wallet with a passphrase - but perhaps keep the passphrase to yourself or stored in a different location. Even if someone were ever to gain access to your seed words, they would still need the passphrase. 04:49:45 Wow! Thank you very much! I have it saved in a text file and will peruse and study it later. 05:07:06 In the context of a passphrase for a wallet, the passphrase is part of the seed itself. It's a custom word, that you write yourself, that's essentially appended to the wallet-generated words. 05:07:07 So to be clear: you wouldn't be encrypting your current plaintext file with a password. Rather, you have a wallet for which you made your own custom passphrase. 05:07:09 Usually it's somewhere in the optional or advanced menu when making or restoring a wallet. When making a new wallet, It'll ask you if you want to create a passphrase. When restoring, it asks if you have a passphrase. 05:16:15 For example.. You may have wallet1, containing 1 XMR, with the following seed: "word1 word2 [...] word16" 05:16:17 You might have wallet2, containing 5 XMR, with the following seed + passphrase: 05:16:19 "word1 word2 [...] word16 + secretcustompass" 05:16:21 So if someone finds wallet 1, they'd be able to access the funds in there (1 xmr). But they wouldn't know about or be able to access the 5 XMR in wallet2 because it's a different wallet due to the custom passphrase you made. It's essentially a completely different wallet. 05:16:23 That's one way to use your seed as a decoy in case of duress, etc 05:22:24 For example.. You may have wallet1, containing 1 XMR, with the following seed: "word1 word2 [...] word16" 05:22:25 You might have wallet2, containing 5 XMR, with the following seed + passphrase: 05:22:27 "word1 word2 [...] word16 + secretcustompass" 05:22:29 So if someone finds wallet 1, they'd be able to access the funds in there (1 xmr). But they wouldn't know about or be able to access the 5 XMR in wallet2 because it's a different wallet due to the custom passphrase you made. It's essentially a completely different wallet. 05:22:31 That's one way to use your seed as a decoy in case of duress, etc - or to manage multiple wallets without having to keep track of a complete new set of seed words 05:27:36 I have used checksums to verify distro downloads, so sha sums shouldn't be a problem. Should I start out with the Monero CLI Wallet on my main laptop? Is there anything that is safe to use on an android phone? 05:33:44 At least use a password vault 05:34:39 Scrapple999 dont overcomplicate things 05:35:42 Yea it's the same process. Another good tip is making sure to cross-reference the developer's public key. Make sure the key you have in the keyring is legit. 05:36:32 I actually have a feather wallet installed somewhere... I think I'll see if I can get it going. 05:36:58 make sure you update feather to the latest version 05:37:55 Yea he can put his paper phrase that he printed out.. In his password vault. 05:37:55 I'm giving him the information he needs to keep himself safe and thoroughly explaining everything. He can do with it as he pleases. Better to know his options than not. 05:37:57 Plus, he's clearly intelligent enough to figure it out based on his current setup and technical expertise so far. 05:40:06 he has his password in a text file 05:40:18 You went on an on about passphrases and other unnecessary stuff 05:40:35 When the main issue here is that the seed is entirely unprotected 05:40:58 Thanks, Scrapple. I've done the public key verification before, and I think I'll be able to figure it out again. (Scrapple is probably my all time favorite breakfast food, by the way!) 05:41:01 a passphrase wont save you if you also store that in a text file 05:41:39 I will probably memorize the passphrases. 05:41:52 and polyseed passphrases arent decided on yet 05:42:16 Some wallets use offsets, some une "encrypted seeds" 05:42:48 He said "printing stuff out", meaning he intends to print it. 05:42:49 So just telling him some things he can look into 05:43:59 Good luck dude you got it 👍 05:44:26 My main point is that the seed needs to be protected, and the wallet password should be strong 05:44:37 [scrapple seems something awful from dict def.] 05:44:58 [is it flavored with spices or?] 05:45:34 The rest is a spectrum. You dont _need_ hardware wallets, passphrases, printouts, etc, unless your threat model calls for it. A normal wallet with a strong password + securely backed up seed is good 05:46:13 I've done quite a bit of memorizing stuff, and I can put something together that will never go away, I think. 05:46:35 your brain will go away 05:47:27 I don't know exactly what the threat model looks like yet, but I'll be able to adapt an things progress. 05:48:08 as things progress 05:49:51 For now, I just need to get started and get familiar with the technology. 05:51:05 The easiest way to lose $ is to go too far towards either end of the spectrum. On one end, you can store your seed in plain text and get robbed via carelessness. On the other end, you can make paper copies of your seed, or use a hardware wallet, and have the physical copies lost, destroyed, or forgotten 05:51:53 Just pray for a quick crash down to $149 while I'm sleeping tonight! 05:52:33 sorry, Cat will not allow that 05:52:47 why would i do that 05:52:59 thank the lord for nioc's cat 05:53:32 Well, I set Kraken to buy at $150! then it can go right back up! 06:11:24 Is it impossible to sign transaction offline (created with view-only wallet) without importing outputs? 06:11:41 I have a strange error in GUI signing offline 06:12:12 E offset > m_transfers.size(). THROW EXCEPTION: error::wallet_internal_error 06:15:15 It worked after importing outputs, but I remember I sent transaction from this wallet and there is balance 0.00… so I didn’t improper outputs before 06:15:30 Import* 06:34:07 Monero Support 06:34:19 Theres someone else who is having trouble with offline signing 06:34:22 Nevermind I think I did import it before, I just used wallet without imported outputs, that’s why balance is 0 06:34:42 perhaps you can help the other person? :) 06:36:06 Oh, you already chimed in yesterday. Thanks 14:11:00 Native Monero Client GUI created my wallet with 25 mnemonic words. Then Coin Wallet (https://coin.space/) created its account (where I can choose Monero as many other assets) with 12 words (according to BIP39). Gentlemen from Monero support said that coin wallet is a piece of shit (litteraly "wouldnt trust them", "the worst possible wallet to provide support for"). From CoinWalle 14:11:01 t's support I've found out that I "need a wallet that supports a 12-word passphrase" so it is not compatible with native Monero wallet application. 14:11:03 I try http://featherwallet.org/ then (which was recommended by the gentlemen from support "You can try feather wallet, cake wallet, or stack wallet"). It is ready to take my existing 25-word wallet as well as 14-word an 16-word ones but not 12-word mnempnic phrase. Or it may create new 16-word wallet for me!!! 14:11:05 What is going on here ?! 14:11:07 Why do people do it to other people ? 14:11:09 Is there a way to convert 12-word mnemonic pharse to 25-word one ? 14:13:40 Native Monero Client GUI created my wallet with 25 mnemonic words. Then Coin Wallet (https://coin.space/) created its account (where I can choose Monero as many other assets) with 12 words (according to BIP39). Gentlemen from Monero support said that coin wallet is a piece of shit (litteraly "wouldnt trust them", "the worst possible wallet to provide support for"). From CoinWalle 14:13:41 t's support I've found out that I "need a wallet that supports a 12-word passphrase" so it is not compatible with native Monero wallet application. 14:13:43 I try http://featherwallet.org/ then (which was recommended by the gentlemen from support "You can try feather wallet, cake wallet, or stack wallet"). It is ready to take my existing 25-word wallet as well as 14-word an 16-word ones but not 12-word mnempnic phrase. Or it may create new 16-word wallet for me!!! 14:13:45 What is going on here ?! 14:13:47 Why do people do it to other people ? 14:13:49 Is there a way to convert 12-word mnemonic pharse to 25-word one ? 14:13:51 Why do we need so many different Monero wallets ? 14:54:09 newbie20250619: lmgtfy took me to this page https://coin.space/how-to-work-with-private-keys-the-ultimate-guide/ , and "When you log in to the Coin Wallet app, you will see a list of supported cryptocurrencies. To manage your private keys, select a coin and scroll down the screen. Below the price chart, you will find key management options: “Export”, “Transfer”, and “Der 14:54:11 ivation path”." looks relevant 14:56:34 for monero, you should see a primary wallet address (beginning with 4, and a private spend / view key) ... pls let me know if you see this info otherwise you can message them on reddit https://www.reddit.com/user/CoinWalletLLC/ 14:57:18 you can then restore a wallet from private keys in feather / monero wallet gui . 15:43:08 if they use mymonero seeds, the 13th word is not required and perhaps you can use this https://xmr.llcoins.net/ 15:47:41 Its probably bip39 12 word seed