02:42:50 what's going on with Google's wallet ? 03:05:02

Hi, is there a way to sweep an entire wallet across ALL subaddresses? 03:06:21 that makes no sense 03:06:55 it doesn't matter how many subaddresses you have, it'll sweep up all the amount 03:12:52

Cindy_: Well for some reason sweep_all hasn't been churning my entire balance, only some of it. 03:13:02 huh 03:22:42

Any ideas? 04:11:50

Cindy_: ahh sweep_all index=all did the trick. 04:51:18 Yeah, it is like that due to privacy issues when spending from multiple subaddresses 05:03:40

Well, I was sending to myself in churn, so that's a legit OPSEC strategy, is it not? 05:04:14

Well, I was sending to myself in a churn, so that's a legit OPSEC strategy, is it not? 05:29:32 if you received xmr from 05:29:33 Non kyc exchange a 05:29:35 Dnm b 05:29:37 Kyc exchange c 05:29:39 And the kyc exchange is is working with the feds from dnm b, they can see that you combined your outputs from both sources 06:05:26

Luckily I didn't use KYC 07:09:20 how did you sign up over tor? 08:08:03 I didn't signed up over tor 08:18:09 <321bob321:monero.social> through msn 09:06:04 huh, with haveno doing sepa/revolut isn't it basically havigng KYC? or there's a way to do it anonymously? 09:33:17 transactions from or to human bank account aren't considered to be part of KYC, as it is legally defined 09:33:42 a bank do not ask for the ID card of the person you wanna send money to 09:35:52 well, but the receiver gets the name of who sends. Also, i guess it can be an honeypot? 09:36:02 *the full name 09:39:16 yes fiat transactions aren't anonymous, doesn't have receiver and sender privacy, thats why monero exist. KYC isn't the opposite of anonymous, KYC means that the third-party must authenticate you and your legal identity, which reto doesn't. So informations shared end to end between the only two parties are not "KYC". 09:40:12 I could stretch as far as to say that most SEPA xmr buyer are not asking you to send them your ID card 09:40:20 so you could have fake bank account and it would be perfectly fine 09:40:28 which KYC has been designed to prevent 09:41:11 i see (i would ask how you would even get a fake bank account but guess that's out of the scope of this channel xD) 09:41:43 different ways 09:41:45 :D 09:41:49 Someone make a presentation at monerokon 2025 about anonymous fiat off-ramp, i forgot his youtube channel but he explained it very well 09:41:56 someone made* 09:43:22 Crooked bank employees do exist. 09:44:12 There's also a very nice story of a guy who hacked himself into a financial institution an he could create his own valid credit cards in whatever name 09:44:20 really not that hard to mistype a kyc file 09:44:44 lmao 09:45:15 he had access for couple of years, and would sell the CC's to his maffia style uncle 09:46:01 not saying you should try this at home 😁 09:47:53 on a serious note, would there be value in offering hosted p2pool nodes, or is this crazy talk? 09:49:33 p2pool in itself is lightweight and latency is important for mining so ngl I wouldn't see a lot of values in paying a remote one 09:49:53 but that's just my knowledge limited opinion 09:51:05 what if it was free 😬 09:57:50 DO IT 10:05:27 anyone know where to keep up with the latest on the 51% attack thing? will monero be updated to resist this kind of takeover? 10:06:57 Yes, Monero is definitely getting an update of some kind. What sort of update is still being determined. 10:08:29 Guest16, there are no official announcement yet because the actions to be taken has not been agreed upon yet. You can check https://libera.monerologs.net/monero-research-lab/20250813 for logs of yesterday MRL meeting 10:08:43 There have been a lot of proposals but finding a solution that fits with Monero's principles is challenging. 10:09:03 and generally can hang out in the channels to see discussions tho you're gonna get bored very quick a lot of people are repeating the same points 10:10:10 yeah thanks, just want to know where to keep up with the latest goings on 10:10:56 which channel are these discussions in? 10:11:10 monero-dev? 10:11:53 oh can see from your link cheers 11:18:02 [@syntheticbird:monero.social](https://matrix.to/#/@syntheticbird:monero.social) is the codebase of cuprate easy to understand? 11:24:33 If you are familiar with Rust yes it is, there are decent documentation everywhere and a lot of lints are enforced for clarity. 11:24:50 If you have questions you can always ask them over #cuprate:monero.social 11:58:46 Thanks. I mostly work with Go. Trying to get familiar with Rust. 12:13:49 Is there any consensus on increasing the fees? Considering 25k transaction a day and a minumum fee of 0.01 Monero we would instantly add + 40% to the budget. 12:14:23 Do you really think people using Monero care about paying 2$ a transaction? 12:14:40 you'd have to be a racist to propose such a thing 12:15:13 I mean honestly what’s wrong with this idea? 12:15:40 imagine paying 20% on a $10 transfer 12:15:44 I Guess it would also be easy & fast to implement and could easily be Rolex back 12:16:06 With such a high % of the supply 12:16:08 I do care about paying 2$ fees on transactions. A lot. I make many transactions that are <10$. 12:16:18 that centralizes the supply very quickly 12:16:20 It’s not that tragic come on 12:16:41 Also it makes p2pool impossible since the fees would be too high to consolidate outputs. 12:16:48 Its horrific 12:17:06 The fees are 50x greater than the p2pool payouts lol 12:17:57 id you want those fees, you can try wownero 12:18:53 So you guys are against any type of proposal that would increase fees? the 0.01 number was just an idea 12:18:59 Low fees are critical to Monero's usecase of being currency. 12:19:23 How is it looking on fcmp+++ side ? 12:19:30 And they are already comparatively high 12:19:32 How is it looking on fcmp++ side ? 12:20:14 Imo increasing the security budget is more critical 12:20:48 My testnet is pre-tail emission, so fees are higher. Much higher. Like 0.07xmr on lvl2, 0.2xmr on lvl 3 and like.. 1+xmr on lvl 4 12:21:11 Increasing fee just centralizes and syphons the supply 12:21:13 Wow 12:22:15 Increasing fees drives people from the coin to lower fee coins, makes it less useful as currency, and I actually don't know myself of any centralization effects it might have (anyone have a paper on this) but that sounds plausible too. 12:22:21 Am I developing Alzheimer's disease or are there so many new users suddenly? 12:22:23 Fees on a block are like 170xmr :D 12:22:53 hbs: Network attacks make people suddenly interested in the best place to hear about potential network upgrades. 12:23:18 You think people use Monero becouse of the low fees? 12:23:57 Last block, including emission, 12.5mb and 238xmr 12:24:11 The fees are lower than Bitcoin. They aren't low, certainly, but they are low enough that I can tip someone a small donation and not worry that they will lose all of it to fees trying to spend it. 12:24:11 hbs we recently had a successful marketing campaign 12:24:23 Why cant it be both, hbs 12:24:43 nioc: You a politician or work in a company's PR department? That's good spin. 12:24:55 They are higher than btc. Btc min relay is 0.00001btc per kb. Xmr is 0.00002 12:25:42 And thats the no-scaling / unimportant fee tier. is 0.00008 for "normal" fees 12:25:50 I can pay min fee on Monero and expect it to make it into a block reasonably soon. I can't make a payment with Bitcoin without needing to add $2 to make the one hour payment window. 12:25:51 Gm 12:26:08 torir luckily no :D 12:26:16 The one hour payment window most payment processors have. 12:27:37 No, you pay min fee and there are 1mb of txs in the pool, you might not be mined for 72hrs, if at all 12:27:46 🤔 12:32:47 also yes 12:32:54 BTC average fee is much higher than XMR: https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/transactionfees-btc-xmr.html 12:34:03 To be honest, no. But if the fees were at Bitcoin's level the coin would be unusable for me. 12:34:10 Absolutely. And it's also a good selling point for businesses. They pay 2-3% to payment processors plus some % of the goods value. With monero, it's almost nothing. 12:36:30 I know I started avoiding Bitcoin because Bitcoin fees are much too high. I tolerate XMR's fees because the privacy features are good for the price. 12:37:41 There's also litecoin, which is also fast and almost no fees but public block ofc. 12:38:27 If a coin has great privacy features but the fees are so high I can't buy a simple coffee with it I will stop using it 12:39:08 Same 12:39:59 That's about my limit as well. 12:40:33 Litecoin has privacy features now, by the way, but they are opt-in so the privacy set is too small to be usable. 12:40:46 monero is not just attractive because privacy, but also because it's very accessible and has a low barrier of entry for most people 12:41:10 In USD. Not in % of supply 12:41:28 An average banking joe would still have a hard time using monero. 12:41:46 yeah I agree the UX is still difficult 12:42:14 Also the overwhelming amount of freedom. 12:42:18 but that's a matter of working on clients that are easy for avg joe to use 12:42:41 ofrnAI: Yes. At the present time the fees are not sustainable if Monero becomes more popular, I am aware of that. I just hope we will hardfork to fix scalability before that day comes. 12:42:57 Every privacy coin has trade-offs, at the present time Monero has the best ones for me. 12:42:59 Most people want someone, like a bank, to manage their money. They don't wanna become their own bank. 12:43:52 Nono, lets raise fees to 0.01xmr and require a hard fork to reenable usabiity if price goes to 3000 12:43:55 /s 12:44:37 Currently the recommended transaction fee on a wallet like Cake is 0.03 USD. If we raise the minimum rate by 10x so that comes out to 0.30 USD / 0.0012 XMR- would that be that big of a hit for user experience? Benefits being increased security budget, more incentives for new miners to join the fold which would lead to a stronger PoW mechanism 12:45:13 The price would hardly ever go above 400. And that's good. If it goes way too up, it can go way too down. 12:45:16 Cakes estimates are fske 12:45:48 A 5x would still be a good tradeoff. 12:45:55 The real monero fee is about 0.00001xmr per input (per 500bytes) 12:46:09 You can use "normal" fees, which are 4x 12:46:33 With volume of txs, monero wallets automatically switch to "normal" 12:47:27 Then what's the issue? 12:49:36 Why are fees low-low? Because tx volume isnt enough to fill blocks 12:49:37 Want fees to increase 4x? Increase tx volume 12:50:43 Black marble attack? 12:51:18 What about it? 12:51:44 Anyone who hates Monero who we could convince to fund one? 12:52:21 during spam, yes, fees increase to abt 0.00012xmr unless you manually set your fee lvl to "unimportant" 12:53:45 Amd 0.00012 is high imo. This is the real "normal" fee. I wouldnt want to pay more than that for a 1in tx 12:55:02 For those who don't know what a black marble attack is, it is where you spam thousands of transactions on the network. Since you have so many, your transactions are likely to be picked as decoys, allowing you to detect some percent of decoys and reduce effective ring size. An unknown attacker tried the attack against the network some time ago, but it is an expensive attack to keep 12:55:03 up. FCMP++ mitigates the attack completely. 12:55:13 Though.. for fcmps, i think we might want to double the base fee from 0.00001 to 0.00002 per input. This lowers the cost per byte on low-input txs, but raises the cost per byte om high-input 12:55:58 The best way to calculate fees for FCMP is still an ongoing discussion. 12:56:09 I haven't looked into it much myself. 12:57:11 its ongoing, sure, maybe need to finish spreadsheet that charts pre and post fcmp fees per byte and per input 12:57:49 currently, w/o changes, an fcmp 1in-2out is ~5x fee on unimportant 12:59:34 I haven't been paying much attention to who is who, have you been doing the fee stuff? 13:01:18 That’s just plain wrong, Monero is probably one the least accessibile crypto to everyday people. It’s delisted from 95% of exchanges. 13:02:03 Low barrier of entry in every way except purchasing any. 13:02:17 Oh, and the bad UX of the 10 block lock. 13:03:05 I've found Monero is very easy to trade for from another coin, so being delisted from exchanges doesn't really mean much. 13:03:29 Articmine - i just just test and give feedback 13:03:50 Yes but unfortunately that’s the most important one, that’s why I think Serai it’s even more important to Monero ecosystem than FCMP++ 13:04:35 I didn't mean it in that way. The fact that has cheap fees, fast and you are able to mine it on cheap hardware makes it accessible to everyone who does an effort to learn about it 13:05:19 you don't need a CEX to aqcuire it .... 13:06:12 from a UX standpoint it is not there yet, I admit that, but that's another discussion I think 13:06:40 Monero having a minimal learning curve might be a good thing, since privacy is a complex topic that is often misunderstood and people jumping into using a privacy tool without learning about it make stupid mistakes. Yet... it would still be better if it were easier to adopt. 13:06:52 minimum learning curve* 13:08:38 On the other hand, privacy should be "by default" and the average person shouldn't actually have to think about it too much, their tools should provide a sensible baseline of privacy. Which is why Signal exists. (And SimpleX and all the others). So Monero should be easy enough that people can just download and use it without putting thought into it. 13:09:10 We just need enough messaging to tell people that Monero doesn't magically make you private if you make mistakes, the same types of warnings that Tor browser has. 13:10:32 But even to swap from BTC -> XMR there aren’t that many seamless options, atomic swaps are very low liquidity, retoswap the user experience is a nightmare, and if you use instant swap provider you have to hope they don’t hold you transaction and ask you to do KYC plus they’ll probably be forced to delist Monero in the not so distant future. 13:14:19 All valid concerns but these obstacles are not solved by changing monero itself 13:16:53 Yeah it’s the ecosystem around it that has to improve 13:17:50 Long term the fact it was forced out from all centralized option will be a net positive but right now we gotta suffer 13:50:03 How low is "low"? 13:50:31 Or, how high is good enough? 13:52:25 BasicSwap has options for up to ~4 XMR in some pairs, but there are few people posting offers right now and most have relatively high fees of 4-10%. 13:53:22 BasicSwap's real challenge is the difficulty of setup in my opinion. Currently you need to fully sync full nodes for both coins you wish to trade. 14:04:03 Imo anything below 200 BTC 14:05:29 But i think it’ll get there i read about the future plans of EigenWallet and it seems very promising 14:05:47 But i think it’ll get there, i read about the future plans of EigenWallet and it seems very promising 14:06:12 testo01: If you can't buy a house with the % fee the maker gets from the trade it's not enough liquidity? 14:08:11 The more liquidity and offers there are the less the fees will be. That’s economics 1.0 14:56:45 Research on the attempted 51% raid 14:56:47 https://xcancel.com/DesheShai/status/1956001181546709005#m 14:58:03 why is this person shilling for relaxing the algorithm 14:58:44 i disagree with their conclusion 14:59:55 Same 15:01:18 "i think requiring you get some rig from like 6 companies is a good way to secure the network" 15:01:36 "oh don't worry about what backdoors could exist in the silicon, you'll never knoooow" 15:01:48 The reasoning behind is, that with current algorithm it's easier to rent server farm. 15:01:49 ...but then also what you said. 15:03:10 monero will become a slave to the ASIC companies 15:03:43 if we decide to make the algorithm ASIC-friendly 15:04:32 uju: yeah that's true 15:04:37 rented hashpower is a problem 15:04:51 but you're losing more money than you're earning by renting 15:05:12 which wouldn't be good for something like Qubic 15:07:35 Probably a three letter paid shill. 15:07:41 but making the algo ASIC-friendly would be suicide for monero's principles, it costs like more than a million dollars to make your ASIC 15:07:58 which would mean ONLY big companies can actually make mining equipment 15:08:07 and well, good luck verifying if they didn't put something in 15:08:35 Bitmain would make an asic on day 7, and then hide it from the public for 365 days 15:09:34 lol 15:09:40 then they'd get the majority of hashrate in monero 15:09:55 They already did that 15:10:02 or help agencies crack monero using the ASICs 15:10:06 they did? 15:10:11 was it back in the cryptonight days? 15:10:18 Yeah, thats why we randomx'd 15:10:21 ah i see 15:10:42 They were asic mining monero in secret 15:10:49 that is literally more reason to not go ASIC-friendly 15:10:56 They sold the used asics to the public after the hard fork 15:10:58 because ASIC companies would be total dicks and do their own 51% attacks 15:11:33 They also had their randomx "asic" (the x5) that they used in secret, then sold to the used ones to the public because they were trash 15:11:36 and oh, nobody in the community is gonna fundraise fucking 5 million dollars or so to make their own ASIC to combat bitmain or whatever 15:11:43 LOL randomX asic 15:11:47 don't they mean a CPU? 15:12:09 Yeah, it was, iirc, 6 riscv cpus stuffed in a box 15:12:13 no wonder they sold it, must have had the performance of a i486 15:12:19 wow 6 riscV cpus 15:12:22 not even ASICs 15:13:08 Yeah, it was just a cpu rig with many cpus in it, packaged to look like an asic, and would only mine xmr 15:14:27 i'm convinced that tweet is 50% truth and 50% ASIC comapnies trying to FUD their way into relaxing XMR's algorithm 15:17:15 no, giant companies (who already have their own ASIC R&D department, and the costs are a drop in the bucket for them) aren't gonna save XMR 15:17:26 dumb poster 15:22:08 Nobody is going asic friendly 15:23:37 honestly, if we go ASIC PoW, we might aswell go full PoS because that'll be more or less the same thing but except you don't have to go through the cabal of ASIC companies 15:25:36 Imo definitely cant let ASICs in and no full PoS - that would be terrible. What makes the most sense is improving centralization resistance of the existing PoW system, leave PoW for block production, and employ PoS for finality to mitigate PoW attack vectors 15:25:51 Imo definitely cant let ASICs in and no full PoS - that would be terrible. What makes the most sense is improving centralization resistance of the existing PoW system, use PoW for block production, and employ PoS for block finality to mitigate PoW attack vectors 15:30:44 <17lifers:matrix.org> https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/ODVAwEkOaMWDHxEOgpOHRMbg 15:30:45 <17lifers:matrix.org> should i kms 15:32:53 pls attachment for IRC users 15:36:47 redsh4de: what about rich people for PoS in block finality 15:43:21 We are facing the same issues with PoW right now. We cannot completely prevent pools from being either rich in hashrate, or validators rich in XMR. In theory could employ some kind of cap and per entity limit, but then Sybil resistance has to come into play and thats a whole another can of worms 15:45:13 ofrnxmr has the idea of PoPoW 15:45:16