01:31:18 im.fluffychat://chat/#monero:monero.social 01:50:33 What is happening 😊 01:50:54 I hear a lot of fud that xmr would allocate 2% to he POS for finality 01:51:22 If this is true this is the worst thing i have ever heard 01:51:38 Anyone could clear this up? 01:52:43 Why ? 01:52:43 Pos still hasn’t even been researched 01:54:13 PoS have turned into phobia after ETH ofac compliance processing. It let banks and money printer have a stake on a lot of things 01:54:38 I dont even remotely support any research into any pos 01:54:50 You can’t differentiate between xmr payments 01:55:13 No issue, you can keep mining 01:56:01 Thats not the problem exactly how can we be absolutely sure that this cannot be used as an attack vector socially or technically 01:56:19 ashven: it's finality 01:56:34 You can come and fight when it has been proposed , it’s not even researched yet 01:56:35 aka. only a layer to validate PoW blocks 01:56:50 ^^ 01:58:09 Any thoughts has been put on the alternative too? 01:58:16 what altenrative 02:01:02 Anything used for strong settlement guarantees 02:01:13 DAG-based consensus 02:02:05 how would DAG solve the problem 02:03:05 deterministic or probabilistic finality it would make it just harder 02:04:34 Final settlement would need staking anyway but anything would Nakamoto consensus would be probabilistic 02:05:20 tbh i agree with ofrnxmr's proof of pow idea 02:06:17 You can only have strong final settlement guarantee at Nakamoto consensus PoW. Either you make Acyclic Graph or increase the hashrate incentive miner 02:06:45 who's this Nakamoto guy? 02:06:53 PoS but the stakes are tied to a wallet's coinbase transactions 02:06:54 so much shit named after him wtf 02:06:57 or in other terms like 02:06:59 Tailstorm etc only make it harder but the ultimate solution is to increase the hashrate incentive for p2pool 02:07:05 1 block = 1 stake 02:07:17 PoS = Piece of Shit 02:07:21 <3 02:07:25 this gets rid of rich people and shit 02:07:38 but also, if you send someone your mined monero, it is deducted from your stakes 02:07:46 and becomes unstakable 02:07:58 (by the other person who receives it) 02:09:03 basically you earn stakes by holding onto the mined monero rewards, which only independent miners can really do, while centralized pools have to give it away to their miners or sell it for some shitcoin 02:09:12 Nakamoto consensus is the PoW rule where the valid chain is the one with the most accumulated work, and nodes extend it. The finality is probabilistic the deeper it get the less likely it has reorg or double spend 02:09:44 I think Harmony was talking about doing something similar 02:09:55 nakamoto consenus sounds absolutely useless 02:09:55 intersting concept backup up PoS with PoW 02:10:08 an attacker can shove an extremely long chain 02:10:12 that just might make it work in the real world 02:10:14 hmm 02:10:17 once they are done making up one 02:10:31 yeah too much room for fuckups 02:10:53 neglect one piece of code and lose hundreds of millions possibly 02:10:55 it's happened 02:11:27 there should be one massive PoW chain that everything is build or based on 02:11:38 ashven: what do you think of the PoS+PoW concept i just mentioned 02:11:44 not 100,000 different projects lol but whatever 02:11:47 it doesn't benefit rich people, it doesn't benefit pools 02:11:50 it just benefits miners 02:12:03 imagine if all that went into developing one thing together 02:12:03 so we just started staking only coinbases and now Q owns the PoS part 02:12:27 Q literally burns monero for qubic 02:12:45 I thought they burned VC for that 02:12:56 I think we should tie the incentive to p2pool for honest miners to grow. More incentive more money for p2pool miners = less attack surface 02:13:18 yes, it can be tied to p2pool 02:13:43 my first post was paraphrasing ofrn :D 02:14:01 nioc: if what they're saying is true, they would be burning monero for qubic 02:14:16 and not anything else, i think the bonus money comes from CFB's wallet or VC 02:14:25 With enough research we can increase the probability of them having better reward rather than PoS this would mean messing with the randomX algorithm to favor mining node and p2pool scheme 02:14:28 Is really monero going to affected??  in this current situation 02:14:55 yes, it's going to get straonger 02:15:02 also stronger 02:15:20 not affected ?? 02:15:56 yes it will be which will make it stronger 02:16:05 Our only solution is not to play their game we have stronger weapons:) to fork them off forever just like we did to asic 02:16:07 as it adapts 02:16:11 okay 02:16:14 you cannot fork them off forever 02:16:24 Lol why not 02:16:39 well, as soon as they jump on the new chain, it'll happen again :P 02:16:59 unless you have an actual solution 02:17:44 We can make the randomX favour p2pools and more money for miners on p2pool means less attack surface for 51% attack 02:17:59 how 02:18:03 Its based on human incentives 02:18:27 Are miners leaving supportxmr? 02:18:35 that sounds like a permissioned system 02:18:53 It you get to p2pool and get 1 xmr 02:18:53 While you get 0.1 xmr mining on centralized pool which one would you choose? 02:19:20 Q is giving 1.5xmr 02:19:47 sorry, I will stop now 02:19:53 P2pool is premisionless anyone can run a new p2pool node :) and make it public 02:20:15 make it public? 02:20:16 but you're saying that monero should be hard forked so that the network consenus favors people mining via p2pool 02:20:30 GN Cindy 02:20:33 which sounds like a network-level permissioned blockchain 02:20:35 night nioc!! 02:20:41 Accessible for other miners to point their miners on 02:20:56 Its port which port do you open 02:20:57 The payouts go to the address entered in p2pool 02:21:08 We doing it all the time with mining farms 02:21:35 You want people to donate hashes to you, is that it? 02:22:03 so your idea is like 02:22:17 if someone is solo-mining (not via p2pool) 02:22:26 we should reject their block regardless if it's valid 02:22:44 i doubt we can give specific rewards depending on the miner so like 02:22:50 that's the closest i can think 02:23:21 Maybe i missed the right wording i mean people can open up new p2pool all the time mining farms can rag up their machine 02:23:46 I think requiring a special pool software is crazy 02:23:49 Not other indvisuals i mean people who share the same address for operations 02:24:32 We need to incentivize p2pool mining we haven’t even done so 02:24:41 Before thinking of any pos!! 02:24:45 on a network-level? 02:24:47 merge mine tari with it 02:24:59 Exactly 02:25:09 Nope Monero independent 02:25:13 @cindy, right? Thats crazy 02:25:38 p2pool mines tari by default 02:26:00 i mean 02:26:04 I know which haven’t done so well for my mining farm 02:26:07 i literally doubt you can give seperate block rewards on some conditions 02:26:17 that would require some new fields added to the block headers 02:26:39 The random X should favour p2pool as part of its parameter 02:26:52 This is 10 times better than pos 02:26:58 no, the PoW algorithm literally does not care about how it's getting its challenges 02:27:07 you can only do it in a network-level 02:27:21 Or any other alternative that give p2pool incentive is welcome 02:27:48 this would require a hardfork with new network consenus 02:27:51 not a change to RandomX 02:28:04 not only that, it would create a permissioned environment 02:28:17 Hardfork > PoS 02:28:21 Better 02:28:22 i mean 02:28:27 you have to hard fork to add PoS to 02:28:28 too* 02:28:33 so it's literally either way 02:28:34 P2pool isnt some sort on panacea 02:28:47 I can run a centralized pool on top of my own p2pool 02:29:16 P2pool is permsionless ! 02:29:17 Qubic can creare their own p2pool, today. 02:29:33 How? 02:29:52 there are already pools mining on p2pool 02:30:44 So you saying if the all of network are p2pool the 51% attack division happens inside the p2pool? 02:31:18 I can run a private p2pool and 51% rhe network with it, yes 02:31:19 Assume 100% monero hash power is all p2pool just for illustration 02:31:42 Yes 02:32:26 Construction of block template possible on p2pool? Not the default? 02:32:53 P2pool is permissionless 02:33:05 Your node decides. If i want to selfish mine empty blocks on my personal p2pool, yes, i can 02:33:05 i'm talking about forcing all miners to mine via p2pool 02:33:35 P2pool is permissionless, but monero will be permissioned 02:33:47 Wouldn’t matter according to @orfnai 02:33:48 anyone who mines outside of p2pool will have their block rejecte 02:33:50 rejected* 02:34:28 you can try 02:34:30 But why? 02:34:36 So the question now how do you incentivize honest mining 02:34:40 if cubic create their own p2pool, they can't use p2pool to re-org monero chain, am i right? 02:34:54 Cindy, even if you bammed solomining, and only allowed p2pool.. i could run a pool on my p2pool, or i could solomine from my p2pool 02:35:13 And more correctly, why would you want to permission the XMR chain, because man, that's a great way to end up with nodes that block txns. 02:35:25 Snipa: i'm talking about what ashven is talking about :P 02:35:31 AH. 02:35:40 lol 02:35:56 P2Pool gives me nightmares still from Tari. 02:36:43 I think if we managed to incentivize honest mining behavior via reward it would be the way to protect the network 02:36:46 Wrong. They cam 02:37:13 As a precaution we can have checkpoint similar to BCH 02:38:02 In BCH, a checkpoint is a hard coded block hash at a certain height built into node software to prevent deep chain reorganizations beyond that point. 02:38:18 In BCH, a checkpoint is a hard coded block hash at a certain height built into node software to prevent deep chain reorganizations beyond that point mainly for security 02:39:34 boog and i Are pro-this idea 02:39:46 its easy to implement 02:40:00 Yeah me too 02:40:30 Mostly to attempt to prevent reorgs of unlocked txs 02:40:43 One issue at the time 02:40:55 what happens if someone reorganizes from that point 02:40:58 Perfect 02:41:00 do the nodes halt 02:41:19 He can’t basically its not allowed 02:41:23 And you spent the tx already? The tx can be invalidated 02:41:27 ah 02:41:43 i agree with this idea too 02:41:56 but also ofrnxmr's popow idea 02:42:21 Bitcoin cash people did it in case they got 51% attacked from btc 02:42:30 But never happened 02:43:43 Yeah. Bch's is much deeper though, at default 10 blocks (100mins). Ours would be 10 blocks (20mins) to coincide with the 10 block lock. 02:43:45 This is obv still proposal stage. Some ppl dont like the ideas 02:43:52 Xmr txs uses decoys, if you reorg deep enough you can invalidate txs 02:44:48 I am sure it has more consensus than POS lol 02:44:54 a rolling 10-block window, sounds very easy 02:45:18 Yes it can be a quick fix but not a permanent one 02:45:30 it just buys us time :P 02:45:52 You cant find the final solution in a rush i would agree 02:46:08 yeah, it doesnt protect against a 51%, not empty blocks, but it does prevent invalidating your unlocked outputs 02:46:10 But it would give is time to think about the alternatives 02:46:36 But it would give us time to think about the alternatives 02:46:50 Right now, i can accept a transfer, fhen spend it, then have my spend invalidated 02:48:12 But only with a 10+ deep reorg. Less than 10, i cant spend (still locked), _and_ other txs wont use me as a decoy until im unlocked 02:50:23 This could be a proposal any one wana be championing this proposal ? 02:50:46 if we could actually design it into the network 02:50:55 and also some proof of concept code with a test fork of monero 02:52:53 The design has no issue basically 02:52:55 The proof of concept wouldn’t be straightforward though like BCH anyone can correct me? 02:53:23 yeah 02:53:29 and i don't think it would require a hard-fork 02:53:39 would it? 02:53:40 I am not very familiar the Monero Code basically but i can tell :) 02:54:40 Nope it would basically hard fork is not an issue. If everyone aboard 02:54:41 If you have two options. HF vs SF 02:54:43 Hardfork usually better because its the cleanest way to implement the code 02:55:10 Softfork are ugliest from code perspective especially if you need to do something around 02:56:19 Even softfork have a lot of problems if there is a lot of disagreement new versions would be blind old version and vise versa 02:56:32 Its just an illusion that everything is intact 02:57:11 Hard forks arent pretty. I understamd what youre trying to say 02:57:12 Bitcoin Core misconceptions that hard fork is bad is funny 02:57:46 vengeful me wants PoS because it means i can slash people's funds :P 02:57:55 Not pretty but its better to implement things the right way without going around things 02:58:10 or i guess invalidate their outputs 02:58:22 its a way to _force_ things on people, sure 02:58:36 like force ppl to use 16 decoys instead of 11 02:59:24 Not if everyone onboard you cant do hard fork without consensus just like soft fork 02:59:30 But getting ppl to agree to inflate rx size for a marginal increase in privacy and much larger tx fees? Not without some level of pushback 02:59:41 We can, and we do 03:00:18 Thats what i am saying so hard fork is not bad or enforcing anything 03:00:19 Randomx wasnt universally accepted, people liked their gpus. Some wanted asics 03:00:27 ashven: of course, everyone will have to update their monero at some point 03:00:39 otherwise they'd still be relying on the old consensus 03:00:50 their monero client* 03:01:10 What is https://qpools.qubicdisciple.info/ and is it relevant to Monero? 03:01:20 ofrnxmr: there's still people thinking we should relax the algorithm for ASICs lol 03:01:39 SegWit didn’t updated for years :) until many people got out that the remaining were minorities or upgraded but i get what you mean 03:01:46 yeah. Lol. 03:02:18 imagine that future with monero lol 03:02:35 spending 12 years reverse engineering each transistor in an ASIC to figure out if there are any backdoors 03:03:06 Backdoors? Either it mines or it doesn't. 03:03:19 Mined credits are sent to some address, aren't they... 03:03:21 I am neutral idk what would be the right thing to do if you think about it 1 google or Microsoft data center could swallow the whole network by government favour or renting 03:03:55 Evolver: the ASIC could have a fuse inside that, with a crafted challenge, could kill itself 03:04:03 as a backdoor 03:04:12 for example 03:04:29 so, any CPU could 03:04:30 I am neutral idk what would be the right thing to do if you think about it 1 google or Microsoft data center could swallow the whole network by government favour or renting. You cant do this by ASIC but thats another topic 03:04:58 Cindy: I don't think the ASIC manufacturer would want to go out of business. 03:05:20 Nah 03:05:22 (I am not favoring ASICs at all for mining.) 03:05:27 lol to bitmain, making a new ASIC is a drop in the bucket for them 03:05:36 they have a dedicated department, connections to fabs 03:05:46 Who will buy from them if they kill 03:05:49 Bitmain asic mined monero @90% domination "in secret" (nobody knew the asics existed) 03:05:58 You could have Risc V CPU all day on rigs similar way but they wont knowing that people would fork 03:05:59 Evolver: they still will 03:06:10 because you'll be one of the only ASIC manufacturers 03:06:29 making your own ASIC costs like 25 million dollars or even way more than that 03:06:40 Monitor your adverary: reddit.com/r/Qubic 03:06:41 plus factoring in R&D, testing, fabs, etc. 03:06:44 *adversary 03:07:37 You know manufacturer can build thousands of miner farms via risc v cpu? Only used for mining? 03:08:05 only for it to be garbage compared to much more optimized intel or AMD CPUs 03:08:26 😅i dont think you understand what risc v is 03:08:29 RandomX relies on the fact that ASIC manufacturers cannot actually compete with CPU manufacturers :P 03:08:34 yes i know what it is 03:08:49 i'm saying ASIC manufacturers do not have the necessary resources to outperform CPU manufacturers' CPUs 03:08:50 Its more profitable than amd 03:08:54 And you still are ok with just pow 03:08:55 Less power 03:09:12 And you are still ok with just pow 03:09:24 Its best of what we human have today for decentralized mining 03:09:40 bitmain tried to make a randomX "asic" like that 03:09:51 actually a rig but whatever 03:09:59 Totally agree 100% 03:10:07 they couldn't compete with CPU manufacturers with much more resources to optimize their CPUs 03:10:19 It’s not decentralised with botnets 03:11:00 I disagree incentivize is all what matter miners are incentivized to keep the chain working or the will lose millions 03:11:01 way more decentralized than most PoW coins 03:11:27 In PoS lol they can fork everything with their money printing 03:11:34 Do what ever they want 03:12:08 PoS relies on the fact that they probably wouldn't like to ruin the value of all the coins they got 03:12:17 Look you cant beat state at pos network 03:12:26 But you can definitely do it in POW 03:12:33 Otherwise they would have brick 03:12:49 i don't believe in full PoS 03:12:55 Fork the network and they lose billions 03:13:04 but i do think there should be something like a hybrid between both 03:13:05 If they are not competitive in mining there is no incentive to mine 03:13:12 PoW should be more favored 03:13:17 but PoS should be used as a finality layer 03:13:33 in case a large attacker manages to attack the PoW layer 03:14:00 most of the rewards should be in PoW 03:14:03 Similar to cars and everything in life that’s why new machines comes every two years even home miners right now 03:14:13 if the state wants, they can also beat you in PoW 03:14:15 just make a government contract with Microsoft/Amazon (or other hosting providers) to mine your chain selfishly 03:14:17 I believe this is a bit more difficult to pull off as they're potentially subject to scrutiny from the congress or something 03:14:34 i mean yeah true 03:14:43 What ? So why did you fork away from CN ? 03:14:56 because ASICs? 03:14:58 No there is not enough miners they can buy :) 03:15:08 ashven: say that to qubic lol 03:15:26 but you can "government contract" Microsoft/Amazon/Cloudflare 03:15:34 Yah he said new machines, asic is a new machine more hashrate for same power 03:15:35 Same way how botnets do without any cost 03:15:52 allso neromonero1024 is right 03:15:58 And every single person can just run a heater and their home that earned them money :) it’s similar to how CPU work 03:16:04 if the state wanted, they could literally lease a ton of their equipment 03:16:17 just for mining monero 03:16:22 to take over it 03:16:40 Cpu are a lot as i said one data center from government can do more damage 03:17:39 There is no enough miners do this. It always evolve to stay efficient and competitive 03:17:39 it would be rather naive to rely on PoW alone at this point 03:18:02 Less incentive for miners to be dishonest or lose money with a rock machine 03:18:10 we need some sort of other security measure 03:18:50 Litecoin have done it for years with no problem 03:19:02 Not ShA256 and its ok with that 03:19:22 litecoin is literally taken over by ASICs 03:19:26 Luke's finality layer proposal is interesting 03:20:00 I guess you guys don’t own any xmr and want to be sitting duck for 51% attack 03:20:21 lol i do 03:20:29 and tbh i do not care, i have faith 03:21:19 It's a tricky problem when you're talking about the state because it's not like the asic solution protects either 03:21:23 any solution to 51% attack will have to come after fcmp++ upgrade... devs r already busy with it already 03:21:23 so, we're forced to sitting duck anyway... unless something miraculous solution comes along that's extremely simple and easy to implement 03:21:46 the asic solution will actually ruin it 03:21:55 Not really it can come with fcmp++ fork 03:22:16 anyway i'm hoping for a PoS finality layer i guess 03:22:17 Nobody has proposed asic 03:22:21 agreed 03:22:21 however, fcmp++ fork is still several months away 03:22:29 Yes, there is no perfect solution only trades off that people are willing to accept 03:22:33 so, we're back to sitting duck 03:22:47 Why would a government bother with a 50% attack? just pass laws to debank exchanges who trade it, takeover mining pool domains, make hosting them illegal, make it illegal for individuals to hold the coin or trade it with jail time etc. Use trade barriers to compel other countries to do the same. 03:22:56 Mid-end 2026 03:23:34 We need patch 03:23:38 Currently checkpoints blocks is the logical thing to do 03:23:49 something like moneropulse? 03:23:50 Then we have time to discuss things 03:24:20 Maybe, but dns poisoning is normal 03:24:30 Its been tested for years in bitcoin cash 03:24:56 Its proven to be effective 03:25:02 We just need proof of concept 03:25:09 The only one I see as plausible would be to force whitelists and blacklists on the majority of miners with Asics 03:25:09 Obviously this doesn't work with Monero, so I guess the only reason they'd do it is to break it 03:25:19 Any paper ? 03:25:37 actually, most of these are what China has done. getmonero.org is even banned there 03:25:40 dr_douchebag: that makes no sense 03:27:21 There are no asics 03:27:31 Yes I know, there used to be 03:27:52 Bitmain mined with a secret ASIC for a while 03:28:12 Last decade 03:29:21 And has been shorting it since then as a revengeful ex 03:29:23 Yeah right up until randomx in like 2020 03:29:51 Yeah probably 03:30:18 2019 03:30:46 Nov 30 2019 if I recall 03:30:57 This release includes the following features and fixes: 03:30:57 Add the finalized block concept. Finalized blocks cannot be reorged, which protects the network against deep reorgs. 03:30:59 Add the -maxreorgdepth configuration to configure at what depth block are considered final. Default is 10. Use -1 to disable. 03:31:01 Introduce finalizeblock RPC to finalize a block at the will of the node operator. 03:31:03 Introduce a penalty to alternative chains based on the depth of the fork. This makes it harder for an attacker to do mid size reorg. 03:31:05 https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/blob/master/src/checkpoints.h 03:31:07 https://github.com/Bitcoin-ABC/bitcoin-abc/blob/master/src/checkpoints.cpp 03:31:09 Review audit: https://blog.bitmex.com/bitcoin-cash-abcs-rolling-10-block-checkpoints/ 03:31:11 The tech whitepaper : https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/292373885/Securing_Proof_KARAKOSTAS_DOA19022021_AFV.pdf 03:31:15 Here 03:31:21 https://www.pure.ed.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/292373885/Securing_Proof_KARAKOSTAS_DOA19022021_AFV.pdf 03:36:59 This looks good as a patch and can be implemented quickly 03:38:53 Exactly what i am saying 03:40:38 not in btc's concensus? 03:48:31 It was implemented by bitcoin cash 03:48:43 Btc don’t need it not sure if they ever did 03:49:13 Some BTC maxi whining about it :) 03:49:29 ok i managed to get some xmr on the reto! 03:52:49 How can the defecting miners not realize that pool concentration will devalue XMRUSD price, making the excess rewards of the concentrated pool more lossful than profiting... 04:04:06 They are botnets, they just want profit while it lasts 04:24:21 How long a time should you leave between doing a churn and making a purchase? 04:33:36 There looks to be an inconsistency in the attribution at https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero that is making zero sense to me. The donut chart says Qubic is 17.9% and Unknown is 12.5%. The table above it however says that Qubic is 46.7% * (100%-12.5%) == 40.9%. 04:33:57 There is a vast difference between 17.9% and 40.9%. Which is correct? 04:41:02 Got to go 05:27:41 are we fucked now? what happens if qubic keeps this up? can they print xmr out of thin air? 05:29:07 bruh 05:29:43 im dumb as a rock 05:30:04 https://www.getmonero.org/get-started/faq/#anchor-thin-air 05:32:11 ok i get this, but does this still apply if qubic gets 51%? what kind of shenanigans could they do? 05:38:53 can the community just "sit this one out"? 05:40:10 Evolver: The hashrate on that site is self-reported by the pools and cannot be trusted. The block distribution on the other hand comes from the blockchain and (to my knowledge) cannot be faked by the mining pools. 05:40:40 so the pie chart says the truth then? 05:41:29 Miners can claim blocks as their own or leave them unclaimed, but they can't manufacture fake blocks to falsely influence the chart. 05:41:53 How about empty blocks? Is that a thing? 05:42:19 It is possible that Qubic failed to claim a large portion of their blocks, which would account for the high percentage of unknown blocks. 05:43:27 Yes, Qubic has at times mined empty blocks. I don't know if they are doing that now. Check a block explorer, or https://moneroconsensus.info/ if it isn't down. 05:43:55 torir: Do you yourself trust the donut chart? MoneroConsensus is a bit too hard for me to use. 05:44:44 or it seems more low level 05:47:14 I don't have any reason to think the chart might be wrong. 05:48:16 they've stopped mining empty blocks and stopped selfish mining 05:48:19 from what I've seen 05:48:23 they are just being a normal honest pool rn 05:51:30 jpc4r: except for the alleged elevated advertised hashrate?? 05:51:53 or are you saying their advertised hashrate is honest? 05:53:29 probably 05:53:45 haven't been paying that close attention anymore 05:54:03 why wouldnt it be 05:54:29 They've been less than honest in many of their claims previously. 05:55:00 jpc4r: because it doesn't line up with the donut chart at https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero 05:55:01 sure but their reported hash rate has been pretty honest from what I can tell 05:55:19 outside of what their websites report as the total share of pool % 05:55:27 the raw hash rate seems to add up to me 05:57:15 Previously when they were selfish mining many of the blocks they mined were never published, so it's been hard to calculate a proper hashrate without relying on their figure. If they continue honest mining now it should be straightforward to calculate the actual hashrate once we have a good sample size. 05:57:56 even during marathons they were getting roughly 35-37% of blocks 05:58:10 35-37% is like 2.5 gh/s? 05:58:13 rough estimate 05:58:29 on average at least, their hash rate is pretty variable 05:58:46 They also have this annoying habit of turning their mining on and off. 05:59:00 yeah 05:59:07 outside of marathons its every 30 mins 05:59:47 I could see a slight overestimation now that they are publicly reporting their hashrate again 06:00:06 but cant really say so 100% and I feel like they've been fairly accurate with what their hash rate has been previously 06:00:53 Did anyone make sense of their dashboard at https://qpools.qubicdisciple.info/ 06:01:01 in relation to Monero 06:03:46 what are you trying to figure out 06:05:49 Are there any apparent meaningful incompatibilities (inequalities) with what's reported by them at https://miningpoolstats.stream/monero or is the data compatible (equal)? 06:06:02 Is anything majorly inconsistent? 06:13:30 qubic wanna attact monero at midnight? 06:14:15 yeah the pool share % is inconsistent 06:14:25 like I said they overexaggerate their pool share % and have been doing that 06:16:43 Is it really ~44% right now? 06:17:39 They mined 40 out of last 100 blocks. 06:17:52 when there off we have ~5.1GH and now we have 6.31GH 06:18:14 theyre never off 06:18:26 when theyre not "marathon" mining then they are mining off and on for 30 mins at a time 06:18:48 100 blocks contains tons of variance 06:18:59 Yeah, and on there off time we have 5.1 or something 06:19:04 that's was just what I was saying 06:19:05 not THAT accurate for determining hash rate 06:19:24 and network hash rate on most of these websites does not update quickly enough to give you real time updates like that 06:20:03 So where they get that 3.0GH considering it's been on since many hours 06:20:04 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/AEFEbVotEoiNkjFcUkHMtyWQ 06:20:22 There line is flat-ish since like 8hours 06:20:57 And why they stopped mining XTM? 06:21:08 They got "1" block in the last epoch 06:47:06 There is 677MH of rented hr at miningrigrentals right now. For having tested them I know for sure that all rigs on there mine even when not rented, so it won't affect network hashrate much/at all if it switch from unrented->qubit->other random... 06:47:07 Then Maybe there is another 1GH of flipping hashrate, or more. (Botnet or assholes) 06:47:48 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Rent IBM quantum computer ? 07:03:00 I'm trying to send some XMR using the command transfer
, but I keep getting an error saying the amount is wrong, even though I have enough balance. 07:14:02 any unusual re-org? I can’t load moneroconsensus[.]info correctly. Idk why 07:21:20 what u mean? 07:30:39 I want to check if there’s an unusual re-org, but moneroconsensus.info won’t load 07:54:57 I keep getting "Error: amount is wrong:
, expected number from 0 to 18446744.073709551615", no matter what amount I try to spend? 07:56:54 I keep getting "Error: amount is wrong: \\
, expected number from 0 to 18446744.073709551615", no matter what amount I try to spend. 07:57:08 What are you inputting? 07:57:14 Add a space between amount and addrss, and swap them. 08:00:34 @moneromoo: oops, sorry 08:01:54 the help description has the syntax reversed. 08:02:01 my bad 08:02:17 Known 08:02:55 Oh wow :D Feel free to post a patch and get your name/nick in the monero credits :D 08:05:47 I can't code, :-( but I can donate to coders. :-) 08:05:49 Mooo, there is a patch up 08:06:46 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/9203 08:08:03 ty 08:09:38 how buddy 08:09:45 sorry btw 08:10:16 For context, Guest97 was asking about qubic in another channel and was redirected here. 08:10:32 that true 08:11:23 What efforts are the community and developers making to counter Qubic? 08:12:25 However, there will definitely be negative impacts on Monero in the future. 08:12:34 the mining 08:12:37 the sentiment 08:13:27 What should I do to support Monero at this time? 08:14:54 Mine xmr on p2pool 08:15:27 The reason? 08:19:13 More hashes on "our" side. If even only some. And p2pool helps avoid centralizing everything to a few large pools. 08:25:15 I don't have the hardware to mine, I.E I don't have a dedicated XMR computer and I don't want to want to wear out the CPU of my general use computer. Is renting hash rate a viable option, or is it too expensive? 08:47:41 you will not break even renting hash 08:47:47 unless you get really lucky 08:57:32 I am renting hash on mining rentals, quickpod and octa space. The person above is correct, this isn’t profitable you just throw money at it (same thing qub*c does) 09:00:36 <3​21bob321:monero.social> Burning moniez 09:02:01 @jpc4r johnruth Thank you both. :-) Would it be a meaningful way of fighting against qubic? 09:03:02 if you rent enough sure 09:03:07 or enough people are renting some 09:03:16 but its pretty expensive to make any significant change to the hash rate 09:03:24 well expensive for an individual at least 09:04:08 but you could contribute some amount of hash for not a ton of money 09:25:09 jpc4r: okay, thanks. 09:50:51 The crypto platform is seeking Monero (XMR) liquidity providers and major partners for daily transactions. 09:50:53 09:50:55 We are looking for: 09:50:57 - Liquidity providers (market makers) 09:50:59 - Miners and pool owners 09:51:01 - Large traders and OTC departments 09:51:03 Terms: 09:51:05 - Daily transactions ranging from $50,000 to $500,000 09:51:07 - Flexible payment schemes and favorable rates 10:21:34 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/s/melUrUSXHV 10:22:35 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/s/melUrUSXHV 10:22:37 For discussion in Reddit 10 block checkpoints 10:58:24 Sorry, but without a third option to tell that you don't support neither approach this is rather incomplete. 11:11:05 Check RetoSwap and atomic swaps 12:24:27 Can you elaborate 12:26:29 It’s either this quick patch or finality, you need to provide 3rd option 12:28:07 I was thinking of incentiveing honest mining but not sure how or what is the best approach for this 12:28:25 It would require money or reward 12:28:51 Pow is honest , pos is securing those honest miners 12:29:35 As i said we can have this purly in pow system where miners who doing certin “things” get more profit 12:30:20 They are winning by hashrate, doing nothing different than what your algo allows 12:30:29 ^ 12:31:14 Thus you wabt to incentivize the miners to be in honest p2pool for example 12:31:27 Thus you want to incentivize the miners to be in honest p2pool for example 12:31:41 does not stop CFB from offering bonuses on blocks mined via their own qubic pool 12:31:49 much larger than what XMR could offer 12:32:12 But again Qubic can enter the pool and do the 51% attack from within so we need to have good incentive model that discourages this 12:32:28 Botnets are able to mine in p2pool ? 12:32:43 Can you pay 3x ? 12:32:53 That is what qubic is paying 12:33:23 i think the overly-inflated mining rewards will inflate the currency's price 12:33:29 In terms of their tokens 12:33:35 (man, i just made it super obvious) 12:33:43 We can if we brainStorm to do soothing about it 12:34:29 How can we make normal people miners scale , effectively efficiently and increase their profit? 12:34:48 There is a lot of factors here 12:34:48 define "normal people miners" 12:35:01 Normal miners were dumped in 2019 12:35:06 Random X is not meant for scaling 12:35:06 every miner looks the same 12:35:21 It’s for botnet scaling 12:35:29 RandomX is literally the PoW algorithm 12:35:29 Whale vs home miner 12:35:33 it does not care where it is used 12:36:04 Here is the problem you want the mining to be profitable 12:36:20 So miners can scale on incentives 12:36:22 i could use the algorithm in a currency, in my site as a DDoS protection 12:36:24 etc. 12:36:28 For legit miners, yes; for attackers ? No 12:36:41 what you are referring to is the network, not the PoW algorithm 12:36:52 Exactly with enough thinking this dilemma can be solved 12:37:00 Pow is the cause 12:37:10 Please try 12:37:27 how do you target attackers specifically 12:37:41 Rush thinking wont get answer anyway 12:37:48 how do you differinate someone who happens to have a lot of computers in their base 12:37:51 and some botnet 12:37:57 someone legit* 12:37:58 Any research platform? 12:38:13 Xmr fourm 12:38:28 Where we can discuses those stuff 12:39:19 Increased ram requirements 12:39:28 the increased mining rewards would have to come with increased transaction fees 12:39:39 otherwise, you'll risk inflation 12:51:44 ashven, elongated : Let me try to come up with more options for this "either this or this, that's it" poll 12:52:12 3) I support proof of stake not merely for a finality layer, but as a full replacement for proof of work / RandomX 12:52:41 4) It's too early to decide anything, more research is needed, if we rush, we may destroy the coin all on our own 12:53:03 full PoS? damn 12:53:03 5) I support tevador "anti-pool" system outlined there: https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/98 12:53:38 It's a poll, you have to give people options, even if you personally don't like it and quit Monero if it is to come, no? 12:54:22 yeah true 12:54:42 whatever comes, i hope it works 12:55:59 Ah, and a nice poll usually has this: 12:56:08 6) Just tell me the results :) 12:58:09 we should have an AI determine (with access to the internet) if we're under attack 12:58:16 /s 12:58:36 7) I support a hybrid proof of work / proof of stake approach 12:58:54 8) I support a multip-proof-of-work algorithm approach 12:59:40 (Just mentally going through the MRL meeting again and write down the surprising number of options that came up ...) 13:01:38 9) all the above 13:01:49 Anyway, if you want to be suspicious, we have a poll that offers 1) Something nice from Bitcoin Cash, 2) something that seems the current favorite of the community, 3) there is no 3, would detract from 1), the Bitcoin Cash thing ... 13:02:19 Qubic appears to be renting out all their hash rate. It dropped suddenly in intervals after approximately an 8-hour rental period suggesting that this cannot be sustained for long. Even if Qubic can maintain 40% of the hash rate 24/7, they can only earn $41,472 in XMR daily. It costs at least 3x this to rent, which means Qubic is operating at a loss for marketing purposes. 13:02:19 For those concerned about this, I have been monitoring Qubic's hash rate for an extended period, and they were only able to achieve 43% for a very brief moment. If they aimed to reach 51%, they would need approximately +1.5 G/Hs, but there is not enough supply to rent, and mining pools cannot switch because Qubic is not a pool you can actually mine on; it's a scam. 13:02:21 In any case, Monero developers on GitHub seem to favor the timeline of increasing fees as an incentive in the short term, followed by implementing tevador's proposal to eliminate pool centralization and promote p2pool in the mid term. Finally, they plan to implement a finality layer to significantly reduce the threat of a 51% attack in the long term. 13:02:23 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/nope.chat/uuWpykAyHswIGDPXqbfYSQhV 13:04:00 lol,if they're renting it would make sense why he's doing the timeline shit 13:06:01 comefromballs: I have a wild, even heretic proposal for you if you are really curious what happens: Install Qubic's "miner" and watch it work. It will tell you readily with its console output what it does, "mine" Qubic or mine XMR. You can then compare the output of your miner e.g. with a tracker like https://explorer.jetskipool.ai/xmr-tracker to verify that the whole miner displa 13:06:01 y is not one big fake simulation. 13:06:34 i mean 13:06:38 comefromballs could be right 13:06:54 the mining pool might be right, but the amount of miners are likely overly-inflated 13:07:05 As the miners work in lockstep, you will see why there are wild swings in their XMR hashrate 13:07:11 mining pool might be real* 13:10:21 jetskipool.ai 13:10:28 Mining Rig Rental 13:10:29 Access powerful mining rigs with ease through our reliable rental service. Whether you need GPUs, CPUs, or custom setups, we offer flexible options to scale your mining operations. With optimized performance and minimal downtime, our rigs are designed to help you achieve maximum profitability and efficiency. 13:10:42 ... 13:11:40 is there any evidence that CFB is renting hash power? 13:11:52 I guess the theory that Qubic has no other way to mine XMR than renting hashes, and renting them for copious amounts of money, and that they won't have enough money to keep up what they do, or that not enough hashrate for rent will be around for 51% or more, I guess that theory exists for comfort 13:12:24 You just proved the "theory" 13:12:41 The alternative theory "Fuck XMR, I just want to make money, and Qubic pays me twice what XMR pays me directly" is hard to stomach, on the other hand 13:13:09 (Behavior of thousands of miners) 13:13:40 the alt theory makes more sense :P 13:15:08 comefromballs: jetski is new to you? You did not know yet they are one of the major Qubic pools? (real or purported, take your pick) 13:16:07 go find CFB's wallets and see if he's actually renting hash power 13:16:12 If this theory is correct, then it's still not sustainable. Qubic's emissions will halve on August 20th, and the currency remains impermissible, which is why large pools like Monero Ocean are not switching to them because mining rewards cannot be received from Qubic reliably. 13:16:43 he sold all of his IOTA tokens (some ethereum token) to continue working on qubic, so by chance you could find his ETH wallet 13:17:20 We already have a timeline in place to prevent a 51% attack, as mentioned in my initial statement. I don't know why your so aggressive. 13:18:03 We already have a timeline in place to prevent a 51% attack, as mentioned in my initial statement. I don't know why you're so aggressive. 13:19:09 because it sounds like a coping "theory" 13:19:27 CFB is pathetic but c'mon 13:19:32 You have no idea how it looks when I am aggressive. I am just already a bit desperate when people stubbornly continue to propagate theories that are almost trivial to disprove with only minimal effort. 13:20:14 And well, if you already see a timeline, you are considerably more optimistic than I am after the last MRL meeting ... 13:22:17 If anything, I am pessimistic. Very different thing. Maybe that may come over as aggression, because people don't want to hear bad news, usually. 13:22:48 A problem sometimes solved by shooting the messenger, right? 13:25:56 also i think the timeline that CFBalls proposed would cause 3 hard forks 13:26:08 which is like.. how are you gonna coordinate all that 13:28:43 Ah, only now I understand the wordplay with that user name 13:29:18 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> cfb is the big qubic man 13:30:01 I am old, sometimes I take my time :) 13:32:53 but balls are not qubic 13:33:03 they're... qircular 13:33:19 that sounded stupid 14:08:28 hello 14:32:42 The crypto platform is seeking Monero (XMR) liquidity providers and major partners for daily transactions. 14:32:43 We are looking for: 14:32:45 Liquidity providers (market makers) 14:32:47 Miners and pool owners 14:32:49 Large traders and OTC departments 14:32:51 Terms: 14:32:53 Daily transactions ranging from $50,000 to $500,000 14:32:55 Flexible payment schemes and favorable rates 14:32:57 Choice of cryptocurrency for payment 14:32:59 Confidentiality and security of transactions 14:33:01 Stability 14:44:40 once is ok, twice is already spam, no? 14:49:03 There is an idea under Luke’s git that suggests penalty for supplied hashrate swings, i.e. if your worker comes new on the network, your difficulty is adjusted up 14:49:45 This would force qub*c to pay for hash continuously. If you want to mine, keep mining 14:51:27 https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/136#issuecomment-3191634811 14:53:46 I like this because it turns qub*c weapon against them. They turn the xmr mining on and off at will. Meanwhile honest miners won’t have issue with this because you set the rig up once and you leave it mining 14:54:55 soloptxmr bros will cry at this 14:55:13 It hurts other pools too ? 14:55:44 soloptxmr turns on rigs when their solar batteries are overcharging and turns it off when it's not 14:55:54 this would really hurt that 14:55:56 Why/how? 14:56:20 Anyone can direct these spiked hashrate to those honest nodes? 14:56:33 Pools* 14:57:30 Small price to pay for security of the whole network, if this works 14:57:44 Cindy: proving they rent hashrate is very easy. 14:57:45 Go on rental site and look at rented hashrate. When qubic flip its on/off state, press F5 is said rental site. 14:58:04 Just makes attacker to send these spiked hashrate to honest pools, and then mine on their own pool 14:58:08 And yes, they rent at minimum 600MH 14:58:16 johnruth: but this will hurt programs that automate turning on and turning off rigs 14:58:31 like soloptxmr 14:58:53 Or anyone that has unstable power 14:59:07 ^ 14:59:51 There is no debate that they rent hashrate. The issue is that they don’t KEEP it on the network at all times, because it costs (too much) money and they want to time it. So both those rentals and the individual rigs inside qub*c are affected if we penalise hashrate spikes over time 15:00:51 Yes, anyone else who does the same, like miners who use solar, will be penalised too 15:01:08 You can’t stop attackers to penalise other honest pools 15:01:24 I do mine when the sun work so it might affect me too. And if you look at other pool you see waves so it well affect a bunch 15:01:28 if this becomes an actual feature, i'll have to stop working on my program 15:01:54 since my program turns on and off certain rigs depending on conditions 15:03:18 Actually it would depend how it work. Rental mine full time, they just direct there hashrate to there owner or renter 15:04:10 how would this feature work against, say 15:04:30 Except when renter use p2pool then it stop mining because p2pool ban it 15:04:30 an attacker with a giant rig intentionally turning on and off their mining program to a certain pool 15:04:45 to sabotage that pool 15:04:49 A few hours ago today, over a certain period, 50 of 100 consecutive blocks went to Qubic. What's your estimate, how many of those 50 blocks came from rented hashrate? I mean "rented hashrate" in the conventional sense, e.g. .miningrigrentals.com? 15:05:43 Nobody knows, except pool owner and one who is renting this hashrate 15:06:41 i mean 15:06:42 Yes, sure, nobody *knows*. Please give me estimates, I would like to learn opinions and gauge sentiment. 15:06:50 most mining rental sites pay in BTC 15:07:29 if it is true, you can examine the blockchain 15:07:39 for payments around the mining rig rentals' addresses 15:07:48 We have private view keys and addresses for their mining wallets. If you like, you can restore them, like I did, and see all their XMR blocks with your own eyes 15:08:38 For example: 15:08:39 43oMtdwB5aaCuM9vVaiY6u7XgxCGLwA563C7b5V3oSTSjDdhiBkWeGxeZZSuD4wAydMzbvNWrF9iRGmwoMnhYnMTMcZjBrv 15:08:46 e935552c5665117a6ecc9fbbfd4156595c75774014606130a01003720e063201 15:09:09 how do you get their private view key 15:09:16 That's a 1 week period, epoch 272 15:09:41 They publish it freely, of course. Just have to lift arse and have a look :) 15:09:54 lol 15:10:07 you made me get scared if monero leaks your view key when mining lol 15:11:30 This "They rent hashrate for 70 million USD a week, no way they can hold that up for long" or similar meme really starts to grind my gears 15:11:50 do they ever spend their blocks? 15:12:38 Yes. *That* is unclear however, what exactly they spend their XMR for 15:12:53 most of it? 15:12:57 i mean 15:13:18 View-only wallets can see spends clearly 15:13:21 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> buying lamborghinis and driving circles with them 15:13:33 *can't 15:16:11 i mean 15:16:35 if they keep spending their mined monero, i think a proof of pow system would work 15:21:30 IF they are renting and it’s not just a botnet they own and other greedy botnets/miners mining on their pool 15:31:46 "other greedy botnets/miners" You got it! You got it! Greedy miners! Miners that can stomach to get a shitcoin for their mining that they have to cash out in some obscure third-grade exchange, because only those support that shitcoin so far, but hey, they earn **twice as much** by going through all this. 15:31:53 Is that really so hard to understand? 15:35:13 People seem to switch from one pool to another to save some absolutely ridiculous 1% in fees or so, for heaven's sake. Which part of *double your mining profits* don't people understand? 15:37:04 Somebody brought up the term *bribery attack* for this. I like this very much.They bribe our fine, honest and so far loyal miners into doing the *unthinkable*: Switch over to the dark side, just to double their profit. Ts ts ts 15:39:42 Rnb 15:40:22 ? 15:40:39 Rbrunner of you remember minexmr bumped fees by .1% to stop people joining it, so at least they felt .1 was alot 15:41:16 Lol, so I am off a full magnitude with my rant 15:41:55 0.1%* xD from 1 to 1.1 xD 15:42:45 Your rant stands. Also consider monero ocean - they will most likely switch to mining qubic if they can figure it out. Why not? 15:43:40 By the way, the price of said shitcoin is going up for a few days already, mining profits may be *three times* higher right now: https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/qubic/ 15:43:50 Countdown started for the first person to say: "But that's not sustainable" :) 15:44:20 Knowing MO, they wouldn’t 15:45:35 Their halving is next week afaik 15:46:37 in 5 day 15:46:51 Anybody in the mood to bet whether that halving really takes place or not? Just for the heck of it I would bet "No". 15:47:43 Almost *everything* with that coin is centralized, and permissioned, and/or hidden, like the holder of their XMR wallets. 15:47:44 I can take the bets and process they payout! 15:47:55 I can take the bets and process the payout! 15:48:34 I offer 0.1 XMR. Who bets against me? 15:49:31 Bet against a ponzi ? 15:49:44 I would. the halving will take place... but then again you are right, the emission / verification of any halfvngs are very obscure 15:49:58 No, if they half, I loose and pay the winner 0.1 XMR. 15:50:24 They won’t halve, reduces their shitcoins payout 😅 15:51:18 I do hope I myself am not a ponzi ... 15:52:13 They have a voting process in place. Imagine they ask "Who wants to postpone the halving in favor of our ongoing XMR takeover?" 15:54:51 https://proposals.qubic.org/?status=active_proposals 15:55:03 i would need to check these qutard sites.. about the burn rate or buyburns how he calls them with the xmr mining profits. they do have a hard cap at 200t and emitting currently 1t per week and are at 130 or so.. so i doubt that they would risk their runway 15:55:10 It would probably appear here 15:55:54 the "real" decisions are doubtfully outsourced to their community, only decisions whose outcome they care less about. 15:56:09 Hey guys I want to float an idea. Would it be possible to integrate time as an additional blockweight factor into every block that a node sees. So for example, a node would calculate the weight of a block with some function: Weight=Difficulty+Time. And they'd calculate a chaintip weight as the sum of the weight of all blocks. 15:56:09 This would imply a disadvantage for a 51% attacker, because now there's an additional time-weighting component that they have to fight. So hypothetically, they *could* still do long chain re-orgs, but they'd need more than 51% of the network hashpower to do it 15:57:03 important decisions are done with their "computor majority", which are largely sock-puppets behind very few (less than 10) operators controlling several of these computors 15:57:34 Again, each node would calculate their own view of the network independently, and choose to accept or reject a reorg, solely on the basis of their own calculation of relative weights between two competing chaintips 16:00:50 you mean that as a replacement to the current longest-chain-rule? 16:04:38 Yes 16:04:50 nice idea. time is already used locally for diffulty adjustments 16:05:28 venture: Only 10 people or so controlling those computors is an interesting estimate. Where is it from, if you are free and willing to tell? 16:06:47 no, that was a blunt guess / rant :) 16:06:49 but they do have the notion of operators and the pools somewhere disclosed that they have several computors. it surely isn't 676 independent entities voting 16:07:21 they have less than 10 pools? 16:08:21 hello, Bawdy 16:08:21 as for your proposal, does miner's ability to choose the timestamp interfere with it? 16:09:04 No it would only be the NTP time as seen by the local node. 16:12:05 would be interesting to figure out the weights for difficulty / time. each 50/50? and both metrics would need to be normalized but i guess difficulty can trivially be normalized to time given the definition of it 16:12:33 cant they just fake timestamps 16:13:21 it's locally on receive? like how timestamps are used for local monerod's DAA I guess? 16:13:36 it's locally on receive? like how timestamps are used in local monerod's DAA I guess? 16:14:30 they can't fiddle with timestamp too much 16:14:31 iirc, the block timestamps can't be below some average of past X (it was 11 maybe) blocks and can't be higher than T+2hr at the time of receiving 16:17:41 The idea would be "my node saw block {X} mined at NTP UTC {time}." Maybe the time-adjusted weighting of each block would follow a function with a horizontal asymptote for a "max possible weight" over time. 16:18:38 Right now it's just a conceptual idea. I havent done any math or specific modeling on it. I dont even know if it's been considered before. 16:20:26 I'm pretty sure I didn't see similar idea floating around recently 16:24:47 statistics (and math in general) isn't my forte, so I'll refrain from scrutinizing BawdyAnarchist 's idea 16:24:47 however, from my basic technical understanding, we'd need a more efficient block propagation algo (cuz we're timestamping... block propagation requires some time)... maybe whichever node finds the block, pings the network with the block hash so that every node can timestamp it as fast as possible, then go from there 16:26:20 Yeah, if two blocks get sent almost in the same time on two different edge, it eventually get a timestamp crossover 16:27:14 it could get messy with block propation and everyone having a slightly different time. 16:27:15 there was another proposal for amending the longest-chain-rule (LCR) by byzcoin (not sure what happened to that project / why it failed) 16:27:17 But they proposed to put every competing block hash in an array, hash it, sort it, and go with the first one. would be deterministic 16:28:39 wait... it can be further optimized to reduce spamming 16:28:39 I remember sech1 and tevador mention this idea of adding a secondary layer of hashing for randomx 16:28:41 currently, randomx(input) = blake2b hash... in this update, it would be blake2b(randomx(input))... basically, double-hashing 16:28:43 with this, nodes could almost instantly ping every other node that they found a block... it'd be almost instant to verify the hash and timestamp... then, go from there 16:31:14 I think flood propagation happens on the order of seconds typically, so at the moment some individual variability on when each node sees a new block would probably be minimal, but maybe that could change as blocks grow larger, or if there are general internet disruptions. 17:06:42 At this stage why not just use sha256d! 17:07:26 Total nonsense to introduce voting layer for POS rather than helping the miners have their incentives 17:09:02 Miners have very poor incintives to mine Monero it's unprofitable and mostly mined by hobbyists. I dont mine moneri on the grid to be honest only with free electricity 17:09:25 This is not decentrlization this is killing decentralization 17:10:04 Miners have very poor incintives to mine Monero it's unprofitable and mostly mined by hobbyists. I dont mine monero on the grid to be honest only with free electricity i love mining moneeo cuz i like it but not everyone like me 17:11:22 Mining Monero with RandomX will never give you anything more than at most minor profits, by design 17:12:06 The fact that bitcoin mining machine is less decentrlized with companies like avalon and fluminer making home machines avalible even more true for script 17:12:07 Now today somone can have up to 1petahash on his house using home mining machine as heater 17:12:13 bro what? 17:12:13 pretty sure rbrunner7 was cracking a joke at pubic 17:12:23 And that's the peoblem 17:12:45 By asking for more profits, you're asking for a less efficient market with barriers to entry 17:13:10 I am not talking about the coin price or tail emission i am talking about mining efficiency 17:13:43 Profits from mining = hashrate left off the table due to market inefficiencies 17:13:45 I am asking to be realistic and pragmatic 17:14:00 Making miners more efficient and easy to scale 17:14:11 it doesnt matter 17:14:44 Please elaborate bitcoin and litecoin have no problem with this 17:14:52 Maybe i am mistaken here 17:14:53 Profitable mining coins are due to hype 17:15:12 Those assets have barriers to entry that keep the market inefficient 17:15:16 more people investing than producing 17:15:52 Fair enough but monero have more barriers for scaling hardware 17:15:53 If you make the coin such that nobody except for 2 companies can mine it, then you're all consumers, padding the pockets of the companies 17:15:59 See how profitable mining Bitcoin is on your accessible home computer 17:16:27 I have asic farm its more profitsble than ever 17:16:47 It get me breakeven in less than a year 17:16:50 Your profits exist because I don't have an asic I can turn on 17:17:02 It's that simple 17:17:17 +1000... 17:17:32 Monero picked the hypercompetitive option with cpus 17:17:46 Ok so what are the solution to help the miners? 17:17:47 So there's nearly no inefficiencies 17:18:00 At current stage its nor efficent or scalable 17:18:22 Profit wise? Mass adoption where there is greater influx of money than there is network security 17:19:04 What about scalbility? 17:19:12 scalability of what? The tramsactions? 17:19:30 Its hardly scalable for miners to scale a Monero mining operation 17:19:58 Basicaly you have to buy a whole pc not a cpu for god sake 17:20:17 lol 17:20:41 Look at it this way. Only the *best*, most competitive miners for Monero can make a profit 17:20:48 It's not as scalable as gpu for example 17:20:49 Because it's so competitive 17:20:51 tell that to amazon AWS. Its very possible to build warehouses of cpus 17:20:53 Aha isnt it about users? 17:20:56 100% agree 17:20:57 your profit is also dictated by how much you sell for 17:21:02 Similar to asic 17:21:23 So if you want to be profitable.. 🧠, sell for a profit 17:21:39 Forget about that for a second 17:21:46 no 17:22:00 Se want it to earn more than it burns 17:22:02 Forget about massive profits 17:22:04 So than sell for more than you spend. 17:22:34 If it costs me $3000 to mine an ounce of gold, and i sell for $2500, i'm just stupid 17:22:47 Which require efficent miners and ease of scalbility of the hardware thats almost impossible 17:23:14 but to sell for more than 3000$ someone needs to be willing to pay that amount 17:23:21 no it doesnt, it requires you to set youe sell price at a rate that isnt retarded 17:23:34 If i can get 20 cpu to work together efficently i would be better than one with 1 cpu 17:24:24 Ive never sold xmr at less than 10% above "market" 17:24:56 Thats idealist minig is a business miners always have to pay electricty or they will shut down 17:25:21 Supply and demand. If they want cheap xmr, they can buy it from a cex, off of a seller that can afford to sell for less than it costs to produce 17:26:02 No would mine xmr if it doesnt even cover the electricty cost 17:26:08 Bro. If it costs me $2000 to raise a cow, and the supermarket sells a cor for 1800, am i selling my cows for 1800? Fuck no 17:26:10 It's a bussiness 17:26:19 my node stopped syncing and keeps restarting after this message: 17:26:19 2025-08-15 17:25:08.561 E Exception in main! Attempt to get block from height 2150860 failed -- block not in db 17:26:21 think the db might be corrupt, any way to restore it? 17:26:23 sorry to come asking so clueless but i saw the qubic stuff recently as a casual observer. can someone clue me in as to whats going on? are they trying to replace xmr with their iwn coin? why? 17:26:25 Then you go to jail 17:26:32 yeah, likely corrupt 17:26:34 For not paying electrcity 17:26:59 by any chance, were you using any --db-sync-mode flags? 17:27:14 what to do in this case? 17:27:27 "--rpc-restricted-bind-ip=0.0.0.0", "--rpc-restricted-bind-port=18089", "--no-igd", "--no-zmq", "--enable-dns-blocklist", "--public-node", "--prune-blockchain" 17:27:35 Try starting with `--db-salvage` 17:28:52 * moneromooo reckons it should cost a LOT more than that to properly raise a cow and give it all the skills it'll need to face this brave new world. 17:29:18 ok, trying, thanks ofrnAI 17:30:43 nope --db-salvage does nothing, it just keeps restarting 17:31:08 yeah db salvage rarely works 17:32:00 have you tried turning off comp and then on again? not a joke 17:32:32 what do do in this case? 17:32:45 delete the db and start over? 17:32:58 runs in a container so yes :D 17:33:17 it restarts 10 times then stops 17:33:51 if db corrupted then sadly you need to sync from scratch 17:34:41 Yep 17:34:45 it's why I have 2 nodes :) 17:35:03 can use a flag or just delete the db folder? 17:35:12 I actually make a copy of my db every few months 🥲 17:35:38 Just delete the lmdb folder 17:36:03 make sure to use `--db-sync-mode=safe:sync` next time you sync 17:37:05 that makes it slow though, right? 17:38:20 slower yeah 17:41:31 Totally crazy idea: Make a weekly backup and lose one week of syncing in the worst case. Of course will cost you for some backup SSD. Cost of doing business if you are your own bank :) 17:41:44 how many CPUs/memory would make it sync the fastest (given bandwidth is good) 17:42:24 For Linux I can recommend Restic 17:43:42 a snapshot a week should be fine 17:44:06 i was thinking to scale up the server let it sync faster, then scale it back down 17:45:07 the bottleneck for syncing is usually the random I/O 17:45:12 nice SSD is nice 17:45:40 How much ram and how big is your swap file leonarth_ 17:46:00 I wonder if LMDB can be patched so it only cache write 17:46:08 I can give it how much ram/cpu I want 17:46:23 because it will fill up the ram with cache, but it cache read and write right now 17:47:21 if there's enough RAM and internet connection is fast enough, you could sync the entire blockchain on a ramdisk, then just copy the lmdb folder to disk 17:47:58 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> new use for high memory values found 17:48:15 Nono 17:48:37 If your node is within (iirc) 5 blocks of the tip, it will auto-switch to safe:sync 17:56:51 you told me to delete lmdb folder, still doesn't work though... 17:57:01 2025-08-15 17:56:46.487 E Exception at [add_new_block], what=Failed to set max_block_size: MDB_NOTFOUND: No matching key/data pair found 18:01:21 The point is, the random access is for the tx verification, gonna seek full time non stop... 18:01:21 But when we write on the blockchain, it's when we add block right, at the tip of the chain. 18:01:23 Decoy selection algo user a distribution that favor newer block. 18:01:25 Caching only write == a lot more cache it (the more ram the better, 32GB of ram would allow a full sync on HDD in less than 12 hours or something) 18:02:16 thank you guys 18:02:56 Instead of using LVM shenanigans, it could be fixed just by having lmdb to tell the FS to not cache Read, but only write 18:08:47 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/GLekRnBCjxJyiZmAqJRmIyTE 18:08:53 it's not consuming much cpu nor ram 18:09:09 it should fill the ram, you just began 18:09:18 but it will fill it with read cache also 18:09:51 I see, therefore CPU don't matter much, would sync the same with 4CPUs 18:09:59 4CPU is totally fine 18:10:10 it won't use more than two cores afaik 18:11:00 then 4CPU/30GB ram should sync the fastest in your opinion 18:12:14 For HDD it won't change much, it will help a little but the cache is trashed by random read and it nuke performance 18:12:41 For SSD, it have virtually 0 ns seek time so it's fine 18:13:08 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/rkhvPAbBCyraMdHsocyVjXMk 18:13:10 used ram still not growing 18:13:41 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/aGLBheCaMGFycihtpKAsuIpX 18:13:44 seems to buffer it instead of growing 18:13:55 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/ZFUyZNlYBUXDKfjQydhZZsqg 18:13:57 your ram is full 18:14:04 the yellow is the cache, it's still considered as "free" 18:14:17 you're right! 18:14:45 growing it to 30, let's see if it still fills :) 18:15:11 LMDB will use as much it can 18:15:46 actually this is a linux kernel mechanism 18:15:48 not an lmdb one 18:16:14 Can we tell it to not cache READ on that file 18:16:38 The will give a massive boost to sync on HDD (assuming you have a least 20GB ram) 18:21:37 oh gosh no you can't, but i sure hope I would have loved to be able to do so 18:25:35 image.png 18:26:27 as it read and write, it will grow... 18:26:32 it won't just fill it on load 18:26:40 growing it to 32GB ram 18:26:44 to test your theory 18:27:47 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/iwLzEUlMsknNeNPnjuHwHwhT 18:27:49 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/EGxuWmDrhVzzjOhWhhUejsVl 18:29:10 There is a little more ram used because that one also run p2pool since 2 weeks 18:29:26 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/vaidMWJttAUVATZcbOJiblmi 18:29:58 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/JiGQiAEYYTFwPyfofmjncLOa 18:30:45 it's been syncing only 4 minutes, let's see in 15' if the ram buffer grows to the 32gb 18:31:07 it's going to grow to 32GB once you synced 32GB worth of it 18:31:25 Excuse me fellers. I was wondering if any kind soul out there knows whether or not the cake swap function works properly at the moment? 18:32:13 It depends on their partners. I image its working 18:33:05 30% in 6 minutes 18:33:20 Don't worry, it's going to slow down, a lot :) 18:33:26 :))) 18:33:46 it's pruned chain, check the params 18:34:26 https://odysee.com/@CryptoVigilante:b/Attack-on-XMR:9 18:34:29 just want to say i love this video 18:34:54 8GB used space for 30% of the chain, therefore it should be around 30G total 18:35:15 30% != space 18:35:21 30% of the blocks 18:35:36 in the beginning it was smaller amount of transactions 18:35:51 30% of the blocks occupy 8GB in space 18:36:04 oh I see, the blocks are gonna get larger 18:36:08 full pruned is like 80GB or something, I think 18:36:16 90gb pruned 18:36:29 Majory of which is the last 1.5million blocks 18:36:31 full how much? 18:36:49 230 18:39:53 what are we gonna do in 2038 when we run out of 64bit time_t? 18:40:17 32bits time_t 18:40:53 I think bitcoin have that issue, still not patched because no hard fork 18:41:08 we already transitioned to 64bit time_t on most distros 18:42:31 so monero doesn't have this issue? 18:43:28 what resolution of time does monero use? 18:43:40 is it second or millisecond or microsecond or nanosecon? 18:44:28 The answer to when it will run out depends on the resolution and the bits. 18:45:18 should be using seconds as we have 120 seconds block time 18:45:47 I know its been explained a million times, but why cant Qubic just be blocked from either our mining client or the network entirely? 18:45:49 there's no need to go lower 18:46:00 leonarth: OK but in theory, I mean it could still have been represented in a finer resolution. 18:46:27 zero-ghost: decentralized cryptocurrencies are permissionless. No one gets excluded. 18:46:42 Moreover, the pool is only a virtual construct afaik. 18:47:09 In theory, peers could ignore bad peers that put out bad data. 18:47:27 yea the ignore thing i thought chains have done that before 18:47:41 zero-ghost: Must be in centralized chains only 18:47:49 20:43:28 what resolution of time does monero use? 18:47:51 second 18:47:57 it uses 64-bit, on varints 18:47:59 hmm 18:48:16 zero-ghost: sorry, you meant at the peer level. That makes sense. 18:48:27 that's the time the miner who created the template set on it, which could be anything 18:48:30 yea 18:48:49 network time is decided by grabbing a set of blocks and calculating the result 18:49:15 zero-ghost: I do think some Qubic peers were putting out bad data for a while, so perhaps it was a lost opportunity. Someone can correct me. 18:49:47 qubic can just use tor to push blocks 18:49:51 they can change the signature 18:50:12 node operators can also decide to not update 18:50:31 it's not a centralized network, there's several thousand ran by unknowns, many forgotten years ago 18:50:38 there's still some alive from last hardfork 18:51:22 i see, I thought there was some way for me mining to block any infomation coming from the Qubic pool 18:52:21 technically u might be able to find the qubic supernodes via this approach https://arxiv.org/abs/2504.17809 and block it 18:52:39 Evolver: they push blocks via other means. 18:52:54 open rpc as well 18:53:12 so they don't even need their own nodes directly connected 18:53:16 they might use Tor, as well 18:53:31 and connect to other tor nodes. you don't have an ability to block these 18:54:37 Have to find their supernodes. Periphery nodes don't matter. Maybe even the supernodes could use Tor though. 18:54:43 RavFX: ram cache went up to 11GB in 30 minutes of syncing, still far from the 30GB available 18:54:44 thanks for explaining guys, the only thing I have to contribute to P2pool is an old gaming laptop with an i7 18:54:49 is it completely worthless to bother? 18:55:18 Evolver: they have several, and they push found ones directly from pools 18:55:27 Zero-ghost: do it for the experience, use p2pool nano 18:55:30 you are looking at monero like a centralized network 18:56:02 yea i figured i was mixing up too many things 18:56:15 we know where their nodes connect to, but these are well known nodes. they also send tasks directly via RPC so there isn't even a need to have a monero node 18:57:58 ok 18:58:26 gotcha, i dont want to waste your guys time explaining these things youve explained to people 1000 times before, i'll try to get up to speed as much as i can and try to help monero and turn people against Qubic 18:58:36 keep helping humanity guys 19:00:35 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/vyUhOUPEXFpExBdPWvMdXXuL 19:00:37 disk IO seems to be the bottleneck for syncing 19:01:10 send `sync_info` to monerod 19:01:25 `./monero sync_info` etc 19:02:31 Or interactively into monerod term window 19:02:51 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/BmYuQyrRfETLIxrzdvfGsWrU 19:05:18 So apparently bitcoin core 30 will allow people to upload arbitrary data to the nodes? 19:05:19 https://xcancel.com/GrassFedBitcoin/status/1954294885953179938#m 19:07:08 finally, my hentai collection will be immortalized in the BTC blockchain! 19:07:09 (encrypted, of course :P) 19:09:12 The first `.` in `.ooooooooo.ooooooo` means the next batch of blocks in line is still downloading 19:10:19 Ideally it will look like `moooooooooo`, sith any `.` being further away from the `m` 19:33:54 is `get_info` allowed in restricted-rpc? 19:35:58 It gives fake info 19:37:08 Will give some correct info, like height and txpool, but not db size or connection counts 19:40:24 awesome, thanks ofrnAI 20:13:18 what is the p2p port for in a public node? if I change it from the default does it impact anything? 20:13:58 The attack has begun. Turn on your miners everyone! 20:38:44 👀 20:42:13 the qubic hashrate disappeared off miningpoolstats.stream qubic 20:42:17 the qubic hashrate disappeared off miningpoolstats.stream 20:42:29 its like it turned on and off suddenly 20:43:04 qubic is not mining xmr atm 20:43:43 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/mKlRwSfnqcsrBphrIxAvtChX 20:43:49 on and off 20:43:51 the waves resumed 20:44:00 clipboard.png 20:44:11 yep on and off 20:44:18 Normal mode of operation for qubit 20:44:43 I guess I'll just leave my miner on 20:44:49 normal mode for alot of pools and big miners 20:45:35 ona day scales, not an hour scale 20:45:37 What are you guys getting? 20:45:43 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/matrix.org/TdpSxxsbfDNvRLjfPGEpPGgU 20:45:56 About 60KH/s right now 20:46:01 My rigs are hashing and will remain on. ~75 KH/s total. Gupaxx. Fk Qbitch 20:46:03 yeah yesterday they had a xmr mining marathon 22 hrs staright 20:46:13 ooh yeah 20:46:27 ravx only 60? I thought you were bigger than that 20:46:30 yeah yesterday they had a xmr mining marathon 22 hrs straight 20:46:40 I have variable 20:46:52 What's your setup? 20:47:13 I needed to shut some of the load in various servers because it was causing services issues lol 20:47:26 I've got an AMD ryzen 5800x 20:47:35 running on Gupaxx 20:47:36 Right now I just mine at home 20:47:37 One 3950X and a stack of tiny pc (thinkcentre) 20:47:59 Doing some adjustement, might put back the servers online 20:48:14 Yeah I've got bunch of tiny PCs too. 20:49:06 I've noticed that with 16/16 threads on my hashrate goes up if I idle vs trying to browse the internet or something else. Kind of cool. Even moving the mouse lowers the hashrate lol 20:49:43 On my main PC I mine with "nice", 32 threads. 20:50:12 It's totally usable, I also put my radeons in the mix, witha funny low hash rate but I need to actually burn energy 20:50:23 My rigs are hashing and will remain on. ~75 KH/s total via Gupaxx. Fk Qbitch 20:50:48 yeah don't go all out - all threads is a good setup for a dedicated mining rig - i mine like 80% most of the time and can use my pc for other stuff 20:51:11 My dedicated rigs are hashing and will remain on. ~75 KH/s total via Gupaxx. Fk Qbitch 20:52:54 watch your temps - if you run 100% 20:53:11 No worries 20:54:35 Undervolt your cpu 20:55:20 My cpu runs more consistent (doesnt thermal throttle) if i slightly reduce voltage. 20:55:21 been a long time, maybe i also underclocked 20:55:31 if i were to spin up some rigs to help where's the recipe of everything that needs to be done. 20:55:33 I already undervolt my 3950X 20:55:33 By default the voltage is way too high, even with PBO shit disabled 20:55:39 From like 70* to like 62* with maybe 100h/s drop 20:55:47 the ryzem 7 5800x is a hot running cput too. I'm pushing 87-90 celsius here. But its very stable, never goes over 90 20:55:54 the ryzen 7 5800x is a hot running cput too. I'm pushing 87-90 celsius here. But its very stable, never goes over 90 20:56:22 Try dropping voltage a touch.. big diff on temps0 20:56:32 I got extra cooling on my ram, that stuff get warm (optimized) 20:56:48 I'll have to check that out 20:56:53 got like +2-3K just by doing the ram thing 20:59:03 https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4%20OC%20Guide.md 20:59:28 i run a bunch of older xeons x5-2699v3's - old datacenter cpu's they are like tanks - I don't tweek them but they run at 2.3ghz 24/7 probably forever. lol 21:00:00 i run a bunch of older xeons e5-2699v3's - old datacenter cpu's they are like tanks - I don't tweek them but they run at 2.3ghz 24/7 probably forever. lol 21:41:35 Anyone know why qubic at the top of miningpoolstats.stream? What's the situation, we screwed? 21:43:13 I can't even seem to mine on monero ocean, keeps cutting out 21:50:43 hello. How to buy monero. Somebodies recommended me applications. I lost the links. 21:56:56 Please consider mining via Gupaxx, which is very straightforward: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_MOQHYRE1c&t=7 21:57:25 I'm using xmrig 21:59:11 Check out Retoswap 21:59:45 amazing! thank you! 21:59:48 Retoswap.com, Eigenwallet.org, BasicSwapDEX are the DEXs and for CEXs I recommend you see Trocador.app, OrangeFren and Cyphergoat.com 22:00:10 Retoswap.com, Eigenwallet.org, BasicSwapDEX are the DEXs and for CEXs I recommend you see Trocador.app, OrangeFren and Cyphergoat.com (agregators) 22:01:10 To convert euro to monero, should I use mont pelerin for getting a midle crypto to then exchange with retro swap or can I exchange directely euro to monero 22:01:43 > I think more fees + GUI wallet mining by default would help a lot. Shill this to devs. 22:01:43 > 22:01:45 > The casual user should go out of their way to disable mining and higher fees. Not the other way around. The Monero software should be a bit selfish and try to support its network. The wallet must by default: 22:01:47 > - Set up as a pruned node (public node if HDD, full node if >750GB SSD free). 22:01:49 > - Mine, even a little. 22:01:51 > - Don't have slow fee selected by default. 22:02:19 I think ppl talking about raising fees are misguided 22:02:27 thank you very much what is the differrence between DEX and CEX please? I am a noob 22:03:36 Dex = decentralized exchange; CEX = centralized exchange 22:03:37 D for decentralized, C for centralized 22:03:47 ah sure then cex is better lol 22:04:01 no fee for transactiion rofl 22:04:03 DEX 22:04:04 sorry 22:04:08 dex is bettr 22:05:55 If youre trying to move in/out of litecoin or btc, id recommend basicswapdex. If move from btc to xmr only, eigenwallet. If fiat usdt btc to from xmr in a slightly more centralized manner, retoswap 22:07:36 @gogo2464:matrix.org I make this guide to help: https://monero.town/post/6460173 22:08:24 Have info about Monero below :) 22:14:55 ok then I prefer rretroswap. a bit for the name and a lot of for the dex 22:15:00 br 22:18:38 amazing guide. I am a noob! I spread my phone number over a lot of website. My first test is just to buy a redirector with monero to chnage my phone for a most private one. So that in case of public breach, my phone will not leak. 22:25:51 Why? 22:26:12 Eigenswap predates it, and is trustless. Previously known as unstoppableswap 22:26:29 retro : I like the name and I prefer dex than cex 22:26:41 retroswap? 22:26:52 no, eigen 22:27:51 Reto* (not retro), is the newest of the 3. All 3 are decentralized, but reto has some centralized aspects to it / isnt trustless 22:28:38 Reto is the only one that you can buy / sell using fiat 22:29:02 Yes, we are screwed. This issue has been present since 2022 when mineXMR (another pool) had 48% of the hash rate for 24/7 hours for a couple weeks. The Monero community and developers failed to address this issue back then, so I question why they would fix it now. Qubic has reached 48%, and with enough incentives, even if it's a ponzi scheme, they could persuade other pools to joi 22:29:03 n them in carrying out a 51% attack. The developers are slow, and have yet to consider a solution. I recommend selling Monero and buying ETH instead. BTC will face similar issues in the future, but ETH has PoS, which is not vulnerable. The ETH developers are geniuses who actually work. Treat Monero like Tor: while many people enjoy using it, only a few donate or host their own nod 22:29:05 es. This is a weakness that Monero cannot fix, especially when its community is resistant to NGU. 22:29:16 Unstoppableswap (now rebranded as eigenwallet) has been around for years, as has basicseap 22:30:30 Qubic only needs 3% more to carry out a 51% attack on the Monero network. Once they achieve that, Monero will be compromised. The whole network will be controlled by Qubic, allowing them to double spend, remove transactions, and manipulate the network as they please. SELL NOW. 22:31:25 based 22:32:26 Weep weep 22:33:42 I am warning people. Although the price has not dropped significantly yet, it is likely to decrease by at least 90% soon. Wwap from XMR -> ETH while you can, and never look back. 22:33:49 I am warning people. Although the price has not dropped significantly yet, it is likely to decrease by at least 90% soon. Swap from XMR -> ETH while you can, and never look back. 22:34:11 Dude just have a short 22:35:38 Or he want his long filled 22:35:51 I am grateful for having made over 500k+ by shorting Monero. Remember me? While I no longer need profits from short positions, I am here to help others. Unfortunately, the developers do not show a sense of urgency because they have no personal stake in Monero, unlike the Ethereum Foundation. As it stands, Monero is fundamentally flawed. 22:37:09 Say it, you don't want it to bounce because your 500k+ is upnl 22:37:15 Qubic isn’t showing up on miningpoolstats 22:37:18 Qubic has literally reached 48% of the hash rate, and anyone who thinks they won't reach 51% soon is delusional or coping. Qubic has enough incentives to convince miners to switch from other pools. If they achieve 51%, they will be able to double spend Monero in order to buy as much of their own coin as possible. SELL NOW. 22:37:27 which one is the better app ? 22:37:29 right now they have 0MH/s yeah 22:37:42 they pulse 22:38:25 Qubic needs miners running in parallel to maintain a consistent hash rate, with occasional drops to 0%. The hash rate will rise again. Just wait. 22:38:41 if 50% on 50% off plus or less 22:38:45 except during a marathon 22:38:53 I think one of the most effective parts of Qubic’s operation has been spreading a lot of misleading information 22:39:11 Depends on your goal 22:39:18 Yeah, they totally won on that 22:39:42 them and the shorter that can't take profit and try to fud more 22:40:03 WRONG. Even if each pool needed 50% extra, that would only amount to approximately 1 G/Hs, requiring another pool to switch sides for a successful 51% attack. Unfortunately, it seems the community is currently sleeping on this issue. 22:40:13 WRONG. Even if the pool needed 50% extra, that would only amount to approximately 1 G/Hs, requiring another pool to switch sides for a successful 51% attack. Unfortunately, it seems the community is currently sleeping on this issue. 22:40:15 look at there own graph 22:40:50 literally like a 50% duty cycle 22:40:57 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/qUgDIRavMHGkCTWBrLOsNMRc 22:40:59 I’m find someone, with the user name ripxmr2025, taking their time to “try help others” on the monero chat a little suspicious haha 22:41:24 I do not feel the need to convince you, as I am using a node to monitor blocks mined by Qubic and have observed their hash rate reach 48% for several hours. If you are still doubting this, then you might be coping. Just sell before you regret it. 22:41:26 yeah, just a shorter that did not close and hes mad because it bounced a little 22:41:44 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> literally here 22:42:59 I'm hodling diamond hands motherfucker 😂😂😂 22:43:04 You people are being unnecessarily stubborn. You still have an opportunity to save whatever remaining Monero you have by performing a simple swap for ETH. The Monero "developers" are not currently working on any solutions to address this issue. I encourage you to review the MRL logs and GitHub proposals to get a better understanding of the situation. They don't know what is going on. 22:43:12 Idiot. Enjoy losing 90% of your money. 22:43:29 Hardly 😂 22:43:31 Theses short/fudder often append at bottoms. Not saying it's the bottom but it could be a sign. 22:43:33 leave it dude, you’ve given advice 22:43:38 235 the bounce is over. 22:43:41 People can take it if they like 22:43:57 But it’s nice you feel so passionate about helping us all <3 22:43:59 If it drops 90% I buy the dip 22:44:14 Yes, I have made up my mind. I am simply waiting for the 51% attack to occur. It should be an interesting development to observe. 22:44:31 But hey, you are here to help people but still want them after the thing already dropped 45% lol 22:44:46 are you selling any xmr? 22:44:49 please pleeaaaaasseee sell the bottom!!! 22:44:51 Gotta love these simps who know best what others should do 22:45:17 you have shorts open? 22:45:30 ripxmr2025 have open shorts 22:45:43 does he? 22:45:48 surely 22:45:50 In general people who’ve just made 500k+ spend there time doing other thing 22:46:03 else he would not tell us to sell after it already dropped 45% 22:46:09 I mean, I know I would 22:46:30 he should show proof of positions with 500k profit claim 22:46:33 otherwise hes just a LARP 22:46:39 If I made 500k I wouldn't try to be interesting on a forum 22:47:05 I'd be sipping cocktails in bahamas 22:47:19 but but, it will say uPNL 22:47:46 I'm sipping cocktails right now :) 22:47:48 500k and youre in the bahamas? 22:48:08 you need way less than that, assuming you have proper contact 22:48:09 Retard. When the 51% attack occurs, the Monero chain may cease functioning entirely. Instead of relying on the opinions of community members, I recommend paying attention to what the developers are saying about this issue. They're stressing out. 22:48:22 I posted my position a long time ago. 22:48:42 Ahaha, me too, something like that at least. But ripxmr is altruistic 🙌 22:48:47 I got nothing else to do. 22:48:52 where 22:49:17 Even if Iose my xmr stake I don't give a shit 22:49:34 Want some novel recommendations? 22:49:49 Life goes on 22:49:51 provide the best anonimity and if possible as few money fee as possible 22:52:40 I read than Qubic is moving on to attacking another crypto in the coming days 22:52:55 According to CFB 22:53:20 ripxmr2025: You have a contract deadline to bring the XMR price lower? To what target? 220? 22:53:39 Cope. 22:53:45 Is ripxmr doing futs or options? 22:53:47 Sad guy 22:54:40 Not really, it’s just what CFB has stated. 22:54:44 Leveraged short. Surely you remember RavFX. I was xmrto0. 22:54:57 At least if you tell us a reasonable target I can hold off buying. That's the least I could do. 22:56:27 Funny how the weekly is right on my memeline 22:56:36 Yea 22:56:51 oh no, a pixel lower, noooo 22:57:00 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/OlNFwdWSkRjdwjuTiIDxrJOO 22:57:48 Currently, I have no set deadline, but I'm expecting to close my position when XMR hits $30 22:57:57 cool 22:58:29 That would turn it into a shitcoin, and there is no coming back to glory from that price, so "no can do". 22:58:46 After a successful 51% attack on Monero, CFB will switch their efforts to Dogecoin due to their newly acquired funds. 22:59:10 why not ztrash? 22:59:16 would be funny just for the lolz 22:59:25 Qubic does not possess sufficient resources to launch a successful 51% attack on Dogecoin. First, they must successfully carry out a 51% attack on Monero. 22:59:29 but dog pop is a good choice I guess 23:00:56 sure, if they nuke the price and we endup with 30$ monero, i'm sure they will have enough 😂 23:00:57 They also can only control the funds they have (if they did not sell it already to rent hash) 23:01:19 yeas, they can try to double spend what they already have 23:01:36 Im filling out applications for mcdonalds right now, so i can buy the dip 23:01:46 Qubic does not appear to be renting its hashing power, as you can observe miners switching in real-time on from pools like hashvault.pro. 23:01:54 I thought the XMR the acquired was being used to buy back QUBIC which was then burnt? 23:02:13 He said it himself 23:02:33 flip burgers for monero! 23:03:00 ofrnxmr just leave Monero already and contribute to Ethereum. 23:03:06 And I did see sus thing on mining renting place 23:03:13 they rent cheap hashpower for sur 23:03:17 ofrnxmr: There is a threshold support below which if it drops, it's permanently game over for a crypto. It's in the 100s I think but idk exactly its value. 23:03:37 like when there thing turn on the rental amount turn up a lot lol 23:03:51 so they rent 23:03:53 but they don't only rent 23:04:02 many miners flipped to them, probably some botnet too 23:04:14 Qubic is planning to initiate a Quorum (vote) among its miners, who will decide whether or not to begin orphaning blocks and double spending on the Monero network in order to maximize Qubic burns. They will say yes. 23:04:46 Hash rate is back. 23:04:54 yeah, it pulse normally 23:05:02 up down up down 50% duty cycle +- 23:05:05 Now watch as miners from hashvault.pro will switch. 23:05:18 Just watch. 23:05:47 Whats that? 23:06:12 Ethereum lol seriously. 23:06:13 Come and be part of the surveillance grid 23:06:36 What a troll 23:07:00 Luke even acknowledged that Ethereum could potentially serve as a finality layer. He has effectively conceded to the idea that Monero may not be able to compete on this front. 23:07:03 At least bitcoin is way more usable even if it's shit (subaddress) 23:07:03 for some reason it seam to be pain to create eth subaddress 23:07:27 Just ignore this guy / girl / whatever 23:07:44 Luke loves eth 23:07:48 Keep coping. I'll be here when the 51% attack starts :) 23:07:50 I feel like Qubic moving from coin to coin repeating this process makes it an inherently malicious project 23:08:03 "RipXMR' lol. 23:08:04 it's obviously a scam/ponzi 23:08:09 it purpose is "ai" 23:08:10 RavFX: In fairness Ether is going places and has much higher to go. I wouldn't shit on it if I was being honest. 23:08:13 meaning... yeah... 23:08:31 It's just also a nice surveillance grid 23:08:42 although yeah B and E are surveillance central 23:08:43 I did not say it was crap, but some people are not interrested 23:09:13 Bitcoin allow anon mode if you are extremely careful 23:09:15 Eth not really 23:09:26 Ah talk to the hand 😂 23:10:12 So yeah, hashvault lost about 10-15% 23:10:15 expected 23:10:17 Even if this is true, Qubic has enough incentives to convince miners to 51% attack Monero. Ponzi and rented hash are not valid excuses for the Monero community/developers to be lazy about this situation. hashvault.pro miners just switched 200 MH/s to Qubic. You can watch it live on miningpoolstats. 23:10:54 yeah, I wonder what all these cpu miner will mine if they don't have monero 23:11:12 run the ponzi 23:11:14 kill monero 23:11:20 then the ponzi rip 23:11:25 if exchanges keep deposits closed, you can always use basicswap 23:11:50 According to Luke, using a Larger Network as our Finality Layer (Ethereum) is seriously being considered. RIP XMR. SELL NOW. 23:12:11 it's one of the proposal 23:12:20 and not his prefered proposal afaik 23:12:24 Another +100 MH/s from hashvault.pro to Qubic. 51% is attack is happening. 23:12:46 Anyway. What game I should play tonight guys, I'm tired of arguing with short-man 23:12:57 cs 1.6 23:13:10 "I will not try to convince you" 2 hours later, still going strong 23:14:01 I did play CS back when I had a Voodoo2, Been a LONG time I did not play CS 23:15:41 Pubic is being DDOSed 23:15:43 lol 23:17:39 ripxmr2025: How is Qubic solving AI anyway? I don't get it. 23:18:27 naa, they just have AI by namer 23:18:30 name** 23:18:42 like half the shit that have AI 23:18:51 it's for marketting 23:19:09 lol 23:19:12 Yea 23:19:21 They made their bed, they will lie in it i guess 23:19:34 some chinese guy was talking about he will continue the ddos even if they leave monero lol 23:19:36 it was on telegram 23:19:53 its actually crazy lol 23:21:10 apparently some people on twitter were threatening to DOX the cfb guy too from what i heard on discord 23:21:18 what ddos (image included on matrix) 23:21:19 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/riVpHLXtQlSEcqwTuNDmSrFr 23:21:45 cant see the image 23:22:00 well idk if the guy stopped but they were getting DDOSed 23:22:02 I know, m-relay is kinda crap sadly 23:22:16 oh, another nope chat account that is ridiculous lol 23:22:34 lol 23:22:44 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> upload to ibb.co 23:23:44 naa, irc people should force admins to get better standards 23:23:49 wait 23:24:18 https://xmr.mx/media/v1/media/download/AVXHFjQp96hQ-kmbUbb4xFzYEWZxBR9zxGdBrZyugt5C6RW3EfIzBLFZizgLEJef6IVHEh9kZv50BzlfipF7AVVCeY1Bis3AAHhtci5teC9qaVJ0UnNHSUZwVFNXcWJSbXp1WkZ1aU4 23:24:21 there 23:24:52 aha 23:24:57 yeah isnt that faked or something? 23:25:14 naa, it's there normal pulsing 23:25:35 <1​7lifers:matrix.org> yoo 23:25:38 aha 23:25:39 I don't know what there ddosing but well, crypto shit should be kinda immune to ddosing no? like that's the reason you have a lot of nodes... 23:25:53 well i dont think they work that way i think? 23:26:00 idk 23:26:10 qubic is strange.. in how it works and their actions!! 23:27:30 qubic doesnt require mining apparently 23:27:39 this isnt even a cryptocurrency i guess? 23:27:56 RavFX: I think ripxmr2025 has eyes on 218 target. 23:28:49 what 218 have special? 23:28:50 qubic is not even a blockchain 23:28:56 it's not in my charts for 218 23:29:19 RavFX: it's a fancy MA support line in both weekly and monthly. it's also a reversion target. 23:29:53 name of that indicator so I can take a look 23:29:53 I normally use two MA and doritors 23:29:56 Doritos** 23:30:16 It also is March 2025 close 23:30:53 I see 23:35:08 https://xmr-stats.qubic.org/stats 23:35:11 pool_hashrate: 0 23:35:12 lol. 23:36:29 https://xmr.mx/media/v1/media/download/AfV0uSCP3ix1d7_LGjTeNSkXG4_lnP1PjWznCLn7f0zun9OVHyLCIBR7fAS167ECzIXZfpBIhw-VnhwXXav15bhCeY1CPBjQAHhtci5teC9PWExzYkVYSlhna29VY25TTHFqd3p5VXU 23:36:31 That pulse was small but don't mean a thing 23:36:46 For mutyrtix users 23:36:47 https://matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/v1/download/xmr.mx/dvsesVoAKaHkufMnCBvCXkoj 23:37:04 red line mean nothing, ignore it 23:37:09 Hi, what should I do when I get warnings like these?: There were 22 blocks in the last 90 minutes, there might be large hash rate changes, or we might be partitioned, cut off from the Monero network or under attack, or your computer's time is off. Or it could be just sheer bad luck. 23:37:35 Ignore 23:38:25 its just an info log to let you know that your node has only seen 22 blocks in 90mins (instead of expected 45) 23:38:48 ofrnxmr: is it because of Tor that you're getting it 23:38:57 no 23:39:51 almost always due to normal variance 23:39:59 its likely because qubic mining yesterday raised the difficulty 23:40:21 yeah, there marathon affected difficulty for sure 23:41:20 ofrnAI: why do you have AI after your name? I want to talk to the real ofrn who was here a few hours ago. 23:41:52 AI's freak me out 23:46:14 nioc: do you concur with Mr AI here that I should ignore the warning? 23:53:05 Does anyone else agree with ofrnAI that I should ignore the warning? 23:59:40 Oh well, I'm going to hope that ofrnAI is not in fact an artificial intelligence and follow the advice. 23:59:51 as far as block, yes, if diff go up block generation go down (when a big chunk of hashrate go byebye)