05:10:50 In biology, there is the concept of viral endogenization whereby a harmful virus becomes a permanent and useful part of the host's DNA.. Has Qubic endogenized itself into Monero yet? Or not yet? 06:26:33 Qubic would need to be a coin with actual long-term utility for that. It's a AI-buzzword pump and dump right now. 07:27:12 Preaching to the choir here, but another case where Monero could have helped people dodging surveillance .. https://theintercept.com/2025/08/21/ice-immigrants-wire-transfers-remittances-surveillance/ 07:40:41 So are you suggesting another coin with a utility can do same kind of attacks? 07:41:03 Any coin can merge-mine with Monero. 07:41:45 Some do, in fact. Most don't stoop to the level of trying to attack the coin they are merge-mining with. 07:43:04 Qubic's attack is alarming because even if Qubic hasn't succeeded in their stated goal of taking over all block production, the fact that they managed to become large enough to selfish mine heavily implies that Monero's PoW is not robust enough to attacks. 07:43:17 If it is a major government next time, we need to be prepared. 07:46:56 It's also just annoying because Qubic has all the warning signs of your typical pump-and-dump coin and more. It's centralized, you can't even run a full node without permission, the mining software is closed source, the coin makes bold claims without backing them up, the inflation rate exceeds burn rate and is not sustainable. 07:50:24 If Monero loses to a coin like that it look bad. 07:57:04 What would be the estimated cost Qubic already spent on acting like a jerk? 07:58:08 There have been lots of estimates going around about what the cost of the attack might be. Unfortunately, we don't have hard numbers as far as I know. 07:59:52 The point of the attack is publicity for Qubic, of course. Even if they didn't win, all they had to do was make it look like they won. And judging from the number of poorly researched incorrect articles about it, it seems they spent at least some money on publicizing that story. 08:00:22 Ok, but when is your marketing budget gone, right 08:00:28 It's a pump and dump. The founders make money the more publicity the coin gets. 08:00:47 Once the hype dries up, you extract all you can and then move on to your next coin. 08:01:15 I was looking at the qubic block explorer and it seems like most of their blocks are filled with transactions of 0 value 08:01:25 it seems like a very elaborate scam 08:02:13 They got someone to prove the coin's high throughput, probably by doing a spam attack that would look like that. 08:02:29 On the website they apparently got someone to verify the network throughput. 08:02:59 yeah that's nonsense 08:03:16 I don't know about this certik audit, they could have bought it for all I know 08:03:35 but the TPS they state is > 1000x faster than solana 08:04:00 In a real world scenario it probably doesn't hold up 08:05:55 I can believe the throughput claims. It's easier to get high throughput when you sacrifice trustless decentralization. 08:06:20 15 million per second 08:06:24 even visa doesn't do that 08:07:43 it's stated that visa can do 65k TPS, and that's highly centralized.. 08:08:15 15 million bogus transactions, yeah maaybe 08:08:55 At some point Ethereum might reach that level of throughput will all the L2 networks. 08:10:17 15 million is possible with a lot of tradeoffs. 08:10:53 It's technically possible, but not useful for cryptocurrency's usual purposes. 08:11:09 I am not technical enough to dispute this, but I am highly sceptical 08:11:29 Everything you find about TPS on proven systems is in the thousands, not millions 08:12:00 First of all, you need to *have* 15 million transactions to prove it 08:12:22 even ETH handles only like a (few) million transactions per *hour* 08:13:07 so to me it sounds largely only provable in a simulated environment 08:13:38 I'll admit that 15 million transactions is a lot. My initial reaction to the claim was "why would you need that many?" not "this cannot be possible." With a highly distributed system, non-financial system, we hit numbers like that a lot. The internet, for example, handles far more packets per second than that. 08:14:04 But for a blockchain, the planet doesn't spend money that rapidly. 08:15:37 I agree for non financial systems, but that's a whole other dynamic 08:15:50 also no saying this throughput can't be improved 08:15:52 Qubic's scalability was also tested for only a short duration. It absolutely cannot handle that rate continuously. 08:16:19 my main point is just that this bold claim is for the sake of making bold claims and make people go "ooh" 08:16:31 it's not based in reality 08:18:35 We somehow managed to talk in circles while both agreeing on the core point. I'll end by posting this: https://news.bitcoin.com/no-visa-doesnt-handle-24000-tps-and-neither-does-your-pet-blockchain/ 08:19:11 I saw this article too 08:21:00 I still feel besides a purely technical defense, "we" need to do work to make monero widely accepted as a legitimate form of digital cash in order to "survive" 08:21:46 I am talking about attacks only 08:21:50 I think the great/best thing about monero is the bottum-up movement, and because it's frowned upon by regulators it is lucky to not have been taken over by financial institutions 08:22:15 (and corrupted by large corporations..) 08:29:44 but as far as I can say something about this, work needs to be done to have monero adopted by everyday people to pay for everyday goods and services. 08:30:19 Legitimate cryptocurrencies tend to have little reason to attack other coins. It could happen... but it doesn't make economic sense. Even if Qubic took over Monero, it would mainly result in destroying the value of the coin they spent so much money mining. If you don't want to destroy the coin or double-spend, then honest mining is simply more profitable. Qubic already knows that 08:30:19 taking over Monero mining simply won't succeed. The community will hardfork away from it. Monero is not controlled by the miners. 08:30:21 Like when I go to the garage to get my car fixed, back in the days the mechanic would want me to pay in cash so he could make a little extra 08:30:53 Selfish mining, of course... *is* a strategy that another coin could do, if for some reason that could was already doing CPU PoW. 08:32:06 that could>that coin* 08:36:00 In my opinion cryptocurrency is still too hostile to novices for general adoption. When you come from an ecosystem where your bank refunds you when your credit card gets stolen to one where you lose everything if you forget your password, it's pretty harsh. *However*, if Monero starts to see use in regions where the traditional financial system has started to fail economically or 08:36:01 government overreach has become a major problem, that that might be enough to overcome the challenges to adoption. 08:37:09 Find the areas where people need Monero the most and drive adoption in those places first. 08:39:19 So... considering the little I've read about the current political system in the US, maybe go to the cities that immigrants live in and convince businesses there to adopt Monero. 08:44:37 Maybe a place in the UK that is being hit by the encryption crackdown? 08:46:17 I agree 08:46:46 In fact the technical solutions are actually the simple ones. Spreading adoption is very hard 15:05:31 Warning re: Kraken Monero withdrawal "delay". They are being very shady about my monero withdrawal (initiated around the time they announced their "delay", before I saw it), stopped talking to me in chat, and hung up on me on phone support. Also their assigned txid doesn't match any valid txs on monero blockchain. Concerning. I have documented everything and have contacted my lawyer. 15:06:05 I posted on reddit r/monero as well, but awaiting mod approval 15:06:28 captaincanaryllc: by any chance, where do you live? 15:06:34 (as in country) 15:06:46 USA 15:07:47 i see 15:08:24 kraken has been trying to distance themselves from monero 15:08:30 they've delisted it in the EU 15:08:43 want to clarify this is Kraken-specific. The monero network has been working fine for me with my own node and wallets sending/receiving 15:08:57 and by october 31st, they were planning to officially end monero trading on their platform 15:09:20 oh wait 15:09:23 i'm wrong lol 15:09:31 also this monero was the result of a spot trade from USD that they executed 15:09:39 october 31st 2024 was for EU users 15:10:12 they also will not allow me to cancel withdrawal or swap for another coin/currency 15:10:50 since the 21st 15:10:53 captaincanaryllc: that is very sus 15:10:59 Corporate thieves 15:11:02 26+ xmr 15:11:19 crap 7K USD? 15:11:27 that is a LOT of money they just stole 15:11:45 yes 15:12:28 I had just purchased it on their platform 15:12:48 and I know they didn't send it because txid is invalid 15:13:28 have you checked your wallet? 15:13:44 transactions come as soon as they're pushed to the blockchain 15:13:49 yes 15:14:11 I'm experienced in monero and have purchased form kraken many times 15:14:15 for background 15:14:27 then either, the TxID is valid but they're holding back the transaction data (not sending it to a monero node) until further notice 15:14:35 or they were never planning to send :P 15:14:41 So regulated exchange can just steal money at will? 15:14:52 this isn't to do with me, they messed something up on their end monero-wise 15:15:07 I offered to help them fix it 15:15:15 they weren't interested 15:15:18 i know 15:15:48 I can post info here if anyone wants to look 15:16:00 Kraken will delist XMR in the US this year if they want to IPO in q1 2026 15:16:12 their node must be garbage, or they're holding back the transaction 15:16:22 Its a tough decision for kraken though 15:16:27 well I don't really care if they delist. I will get it elsewhere 15:16:29 those are the two ethical conclusions 15:16:42 the other one is if they were never planning to give you the money 15:16:47 they're most convenient until they aren't 15:16:53 They will make unfatomable money on an IPO 15:16:59 Planning to delist doesn't give them the right to outright steal funds 15:17:14 Tru 15:17:28 It's criminal behavior 15:18:04 someone else posted on reddit, same issue as me 15:18:49 It's ironic how monero is accused of being used by criminals, while CEX's show more criminal behavior than average monero users 15:19:58 I think contacting a laywer is the best course of action 15:20:19 they're probably ghosting XMR withdrawal due to new regulations coming out in the US 15:20:24 similar to those in the EU 15:20:50 It doesn't make sense to me 15:21:13 you can delist all you want, you are not instructed to seize funds from innocent users 15:21:20 or maybe they are 15:21:25 https://www.congress.gov/bill/119th-congress/house-bill/3633 15:21:35 Privately I have several plausible theories about what happened on the 21st. Some temporary, some permanent. I hope the monero they sold exists and is eventually going to be sent, and is just delayed as they claim. 15:21:52 probably this 15:22:04 captaincanaryllc: what theories? 15:24:33 eddie: banks CAN seize funds from innocent users :P 15:25:55 and i'm wondering if they're doing that early in case this act passes 15:26:22 Reasons someone can't send you monero: 15:26:23 1. they don't have the monero (if for any reason they lost it, or never had it and can't buy it) 15:26:25 2. They don't have the equipment needed to send monero (infra failure, stored monero may be intact) 15:26:27 3. Their source of monero dumped all their monero due to the panic cause by qubic, and now kraken can't buy monero to cover the spot trades they already executed 15:27:49 I think 1, also they delisted Xmr in Canada so a lot of people might have requested a withdrawl at the same time 15:27:53 And now they run out of moneros 15:28:38 they are representing this as a technical problem, but won't explain beyond that. Not likely unless they had massive infra failure with no access to backups 15:29:07 said their 'best and brightest' engineers were working on it 15:29:17 no eta on a supposed fix 15:29:48 Nonsense 15:30:22 The Mike Lazeritis character in the BlackBerry movie: "I didn't say we have the best engineers in the world. I said we have the best engineers in Canada." 15:33:01 captaincanaryllc: corporations like to hide everything behind a "technical problem" 15:33:53 5 year after covid there are still "delays in responses due to high demand" 15:34:13 doesn't work for this because I have some understanding of how monero works 15:34:28 but how tf did they come up with a fake TxID 15:34:49 that's the part that keeps me up at night 15:35:06 unless their program blindly sent a transaction with the amount, and it got rejected by miners 15:35:13 what kind of fuckup could cause that 15:35:41 they have some kind of custom node software sending txs I'm guessing 15:36:13 but what kind of node software gets far enough to generate a txid and then not send? 15:36:47 probably the one that found that they didn't have enough outputs to actually guarantee that it'll be verified on the blockchain 15:38:22 so whoever was watching the xmr wallets at kraken may have been asleep 15:39:13 when they delist XMR in countries, they have to liquidate people's funds to other currencies like BTC 15:39:24 fake txid? What did i miss 15:39:45 so i'm starting to think they ran out of money for the node to actually send a tx 15:39:53 and their program just pulled the txid out of it anyway 15:39:56 ofrn: kraken generated an invalid txid for monero withdrawal that never sent 15:40:15 Who's txid is this? 15:40:44 to my wallet from my kraken account 15:40:56 the txid isnt necessarily fake, they might have sent it to a corrupt or disconnected node 15:41:22 Or they are using remote nodes that arent relaying txs lolol 15:41:53 Or they flushed the txpool or didnt fix connectivity within 72hrs 15:42:02 I have documentation but since the txid is invalid you probably can't use it for any analysis 15:42:16 Invalid? Or not found? 15:43:56 can't cofirm, I'll post txid here 15:44:33 2b63aleeac7876b0668b785196a280f2f300fa5b084ae7aбbf171d9938ac6lec 15:45:11 why are there l's 15:45:35 oops 15:46:13 correct txid: 15:46:15 2b63a1eeac7876b0668b785196a280f2f300fa5b084ae7a6bf171d9938ac61ec 15:47:38 Right amount of chars 15:49:00 Sounds like they probably had an issue with their node, and now have to reconcile which txs were not sent with their exchange records 15:50:31 jesus 15:50:42 and they're still taking orders 15:59:19 ofrn is probably correct and it will take some time 16:00:59 they had no eta, so I'm guessing they don't have a working fix, aside from manually matching txs in their system 16:01:18 must be what their engineers are working on 16:44:53 appreciate the insights 21:40:45 I've been suspended from r/krakensupport 21:41:08 lots of people complaining though 21:50:51 I'm muted, actually 21:53:42 Muted? 21:54:12 kraken deleting their own comments on my reddit thread, calm cool and collected 21:54:58 What were their comments? Link? 21:55:14 I don't usually check the reddit, im banned 21:56:42 oh muted means I can't message the mods of r/krakensupport for 7 days 21:58:06 the content of the deleted comment was just them asking for my public kraken id 21:58:57 https://www.reddit.com/r/KrakenSupport/s/Cq5DCYmPfL 22:00:53 I can't see the comments 22:00:59 maybe because I'm not logged in? 22:01:46 maybe they erased the root comment in hopes of hiding the replies 22:02:01 No offense but putting a post like you do publicy in a "support subreddit" is mostly going to do shit 22:02:07 sometimes there are holds relating to the ACH time it takes clear 22:02:11 because I put all my screenshots of our custo service convo there 22:02:16 and tx details 22:02:45 Yeah it's not going to work like that, everyone can put anything they want, the company is not going to be thankful for that 22:03:06 You know this thing called diplomacy? 22:03:07 it took me a week to get withdrawal on kraken for XMR but i decided i'll just leave it there anyways 22:03:20 really bad look for them. Never had major issues until now 22:04:15 My friend I understand your frustration but kicking and screaming in public has never impressed anyone 22:04:36 You need to resolve this through the appropriate channels like you say you're doing with your lawyer 22:05:05 kraken deserves to be called out 22:05:28 I agree, but it's not going to help your specific case 22:05:38 public pressure theoretically gets me my money faster 22:06:16 Hardly 22:06:48 are you sure? they're responding to me more now than prior 22:06:52 There are still millions of other customers depositing money daily to kraken, they have procedures and what not, they'll not give a shit 22:07:20 they give more of a shit about their image than they do about me 22:08:52 1 person complaining is not bad publicity, it's cost of doing business 22:09:10 well, assume it's a big misunderstanding, wouldn't it be unfortunate if kraken decided XMR is too much to handle now? they may have been affected by the stories that XMR network was being attacked by qubic 22:09:24 AFAIK it's the only exchange that even has XMR trading 22:09:29 it's not just me, check reddit r/krakensupport sorted by new 22:09:45 Kraken would not dump XMR because it's "to difficult to handle" 22:09:47 snake62, you can still trade xmr on poloniex too afaik 22:09:58 They can suspend withdraw er deposit with probably 3 clicks 22:09:59 pathetic to try to placate the cex 22:10:28 you can trade xmr on poloniex but you can't withdraw XMR from them afaik 22:10:35 ok well i hope this get's resolved for you anyways, good luck 22:10:48 i'm not saying you're being mistreated, I'm saying your strategy is not going to get your money back faster. 22:10:49 cex is only useful if they can deliver crypto 22:10:58 otherwise they are not an exchange 22:11:12 There a legally registered company, file a legal complaint 22:11:33 They a legally registered company, file a legal complaint 22:11:45 why do you care, eddie? are you kraken? 22:12:14