15:29:32 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> The last US Monero CEX has fallen.
15:29:32 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1nd0f9u/kraken_withdrawals_suspended_in_usa/
15:53:32 <br-m> <basses:matrix.org> none of redlib instances work rip
15:58:48 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/TtEHigBHPyjZegzEDUbdiuuA.png (1000008717.png)
15:59:25 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @basses:matrix.org: Take a look at the screenshot above.
15:59:41 <br-m> <basses:matrix.org> @shortwavesurfer2009: Thanks!
16:13:02 <DataHoarder> As noted in comments https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/10067 could be part of the reasons
16:22:39 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> @shortwavesurfer2009: What about poloniex?
16:23:39 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @eddie:oblak.be: BaloneyEx
16:24:03 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> you can buy XMR there, afaik
16:24:18 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> are they not US?
16:25:02 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @eddie:oblak.be: I don't believe they are US and they are on the avoid list already
16:25:20 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> That's why I called them BaloneyEx
16:25:22 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> which avoid list?
16:25:47 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> Bawdys
16:26:53 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> As far as I know, they fractional reserve and do the exact same thing where they won't allow withdrawals, but they will allow deposits.
16:27:46 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Never had an issue with them, only used it from small amounts though
16:29:33 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Anyway, not here to endorse them, all CEXs suck :p
16:29:48 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> I just thought they were US honestly
16:31:16 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1mp00w0/list_of_exchanges_and_their_status/
16:31:36 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> sell it for BTC, withdraw it and then swap it bay using atomic swaps? > <@shortwavesurfer2009> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/TtEHigBHPyjZegzEDUbdiuuA.png (1000008717.png)
16:32:58 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @eddie:oblak.be: Which is exactly what they want you to do because it drives down the Monero price at least temporarily so they can pick up some coins to attempt to satisfy their withdrawals.
16:33:16 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> It's ultimately going to be just like the Binance deal listing where Monero dropped 30% in the short run and then rose 150% since then.
16:33:57 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Yeah I wouldn't worry to much about it, one shouldn't have been using CEXs for a long time now
16:34:34 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> And the reddit link I sent was from a month ago and has baloneyEx being turned off.
16:34:57 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> Exactly. This is what you get when you use a centralized exchange.
16:35:44 <br-m> <albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> The only CEX where I could buy XMR closed all all its operation in my country, so now I use Haveno
16:35:45 <Cindy> CEXs are good at price manipulation
16:36:08 <Cindy> albertlarsan68: considering your domain ends in .fr, i'm assuming you're from the EU
16:36:14 <Cindy> the EU is planning to fully ban monero by 2027
16:36:36 <Cindy> and they've been pressuring exchanges to delist monero
16:37:19 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Yeah, which is totally ironic because they also give companies fines for violating people's privacy 😂
16:37:30 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> You can have privacy but not to much
16:38:30 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> I have to wonder how many of the instant swap exchanges will now go down because they were probably using Kraken as the backend API or whatever.
16:39:11 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> I remember some of them having big issues when Binance went down for that exact reason.
16:39:24 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Litecoin ftw > <@eddie:oblak.be> sell it for BTC, withdraw it and then swap it bay using atomic swaps?
16:40:13 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> @shortwavesurfer2009: that's possible, but new routes will emerge
16:40:23 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/MleKxTgiVYGcEdRGsckJMAcT.png (share_8237029395006254165.png)
16:41:59 <br-m> <albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> Cindy: It not only closed XMR, but all operations (ie I cannot even log in to the platform)
16:43:04 <Cindy> i think they're forcing the exchanges to get a license
16:43:09 <Cindy> or else they'll get fined
16:43:29 <Cindy> and there's a LOT of rules that come with the license (including: no privacy coins, e.g. monero)
16:45:31 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: That's from BSX?
16:49:38 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> How do refunds for XMR <> Litecoin / Bitcoin work on BSX?
16:49:55 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> What are the timelocks like?
16:50:02 <Cindy> refunds?
16:50:35 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> What happens if one of the two parties doesn’t cooperate ?
16:50:42 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> Let’s say the maker doesn’t lock the Monero?
16:50:59 <Cindy> i mean
16:51:05 <Cindy> multisig is usuallly 2/3
16:51:13 <Cindy> (buyer, arbitrator, seller)
16:51:26 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> Sorry, wrong chat
16:51:46 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> I was talking about BasicSwap Atomic Swaps
16:51:56 <Cindy> ah i see
17:10:32 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @binarybaron:matrix.org: An atomic swap cannot get into a state where it does not succeed. Either it succeeds and each party gets the other currency, or it does not succeed, and each party gets their currency back.
17:11:47 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> This is not true for most of the current protocols. I have been working on atomic swaps for almost three years now. There are cases where specific refund transaction needs to be published within specific timeframes to prevent DoS attacks
17:12:40 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> @binarybaron:matrix.org: Okay, then you know more about it than I do, so I will shut up. LOL.
17:13:39 <br-m> <binarybaron:matrix.org> Didn’t mean it like that haha
17:15:34 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> What I find annoying about atomic swaps is that you can't use RPC nodes in order to do them. You have to use a full node, at least from what I understand. If you only had to use the tip, that would be one thing, but having to download a full node for every blockchain you want to swap between is a pain in the ass.
17:15:34 <br-m> <shortwavesurfer2009> Like, if you only needed, say, the last day's worth of blocks in order to do an atomic swap, that would be one thing. But to download an entire chain, just to do a swap, is a pain.
17:43:04 <helene> @albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr "The only CEX where I could buy XMR" considering your username and domain, I know where you live, and i've been using dfx.swiss just fine to get XMR so I can recommend it myself
17:47:31 <helene> @binarybaron:matrix.org: I've been trying to understand what exactly BasicSwapDEX was doing but the codebase is such a disaster that it'd take a few days just to follow the BTC-XMR swap codepaths
17:47:55 <br-m> <albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> helene: I now use Haveno, but thanks!
17:49:02 <Cindy> dfx.swiss has a full KYC for a transaction above an undefined "daily limit"
17:49:58 <Cindy> which includes: address, copy of your ID and passport, photo of your face, some registration form, economic owner form, first transaction from a bank account in the customer' name to DFX, etc.
17:50:14 <helene> it indeed does, it is not non-KYC
17:50:38 <helene> there are multiple stages of KYC for them, which change the limits and such
17:50:40 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Cindy: it's 1000CHF normally
17:51:20 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Which is the daily limit mandated by swiss law
17:51:22 <helene> @binarybaron:matrix.org see https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/8c06508e7c50ae64ca81626b346252f45f8e40f0/basicswap/basicswap.py#L4047 and https://github.com/basicswap/basicswap/blob/8c06508e7c50ae64ca81626b346252f45f8e40f0/basicswap/basicswap.py#L4300 for the main logic, but it's still a mess to understand it
17:52:22 <helene> @eddie:oblak.be 1000CHF per year iirc, right?
17:52:43 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> It should be 100k CHF per year
17:52:57 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> unless the law was changed recently
17:53:44 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Also: https://docs.dfx.swiss/en/faq.html#why-does-dfx-require-a-full-kyc-even-if-i-have-sent-less-than-chf-1-000
17:54:01 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> @eddie:oblak.be: seems DFX uses 50k CHF
18:00:05 <Cindy> so DFX is KYC
18:04:48 <helene> as most CEXes are, I believe
18:07:15 <helene> getting any amount of cryptocurrency in France is non-trivial, even more so if your requirements are to have no KYC :)
18:07:29 <Cindy> EU sucks :P
18:07:49 <helene> I believe it's easier in a lot of the EU compared to France
18:08:47 <helene> for example, in France, you have to declare all CEX accounts to the tax office; if you own any cryptocurrency that isn't on a CEX... best of luck
18:09:08 <helene> (and on a listed, accepted and certified CEX, of course)
18:09:37 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Cindy: France sucks 😂
18:09:43 <Cindy> nah, EU in general sucks
18:10:11 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> The governments yes
18:10:17 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> But it's not worse than the USA
18:10:33 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> It just depends on your priorities
18:11:22 <helene> France #1 country of cryptocurrency-based kidnappings 🫡
18:11:31 <Cindy> i hate when europeans say "but at least we're better than the US!" or "the US sucks compared to us" and use that to completely avoid any arguments
18:11:43 <Cindy> blind nationalism
18:11:48 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> I didn't say it's better, I said it's not worse 😂
18:11:56 <helene> (the EU isn't a nation though)
18:12:17 <Cindy> we need to make a new word then
18:12:17 <helene> we're all a bunch of independent countries that hate each other, very different!
18:12:19 <Cindy> blind EUism
18:13:42 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Well in Europe you can go to school without getting shot, how's that for an argument: p
18:13:54 <Cindy> i'd rather want people who are overly-critical about their governments
18:14:04 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> you might be ran over by a terrorism but ok :p 
18:14:16 <Cindy> than europeans who are always huffing copium while they fall into pits like chat control and eIDAS
18:14:38 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> hmm, the french are very critical of their governments
18:14:38 <helene> oh, don't misunderstand, it's a very european thing to say "<other place> sucks" but it doesn't mean we don't think where we live doesn't suck even more lol
18:14:43 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> they really know what protesting is
18:14:56 <br-m> <albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> @eddie:oblak.be: But the government doesn't listen sadly
18:15:20 <Cindy> i think all countries suck
18:15:21 <helene> wait, you expect governments to listen?
18:15:22 <Cindy> equally :P
18:15:27 <Cindy> all governments suck
18:15:43 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> Cindy: that was exactly my point
18:15:49 <Cindy> i see
18:15:53 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> because apart from govt most countries are nice
18:16:00 <helene> living in europe is having an attitude of "my country sucks more than yours, but my country's better"
18:16:03 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> beautiful places, nice people, good food
18:16:30 <br-m> <albertlarsan68:albertlarsan.fr> (let's go to off topic)
18:46:51 <nioc> People don't listen, why should governments?
18:59:26 <helene> nioc: that's what i notice, too :)
19:00:17 <helene> the different tends to be that one sucks at communication, and the other refuses to engage in communication
19:03:06 <br-m> <eddie:oblak.be> love this analysis, spot on 😂
19:30:27 <nioc> Also differences in "self" interest 
19:32:19 <nioc> aka monied special interests
19:52:28 <helene> eh, that not so much