03:56:49 GM 04:00:32 GN 04:02:02 GL 05:36:09 i may someday have $1 worth of monero lol 06:39:22 @frogmindset:matrix.org: Common 8kh is not that low. 06:39:22 Maybe 5-6 days 07:04:49 i currently have 0.65 cents worth of monero lol 07:07:00 the day i finally get a full dollar worth of monero will be a good day lol 07:21:05

@kevino:tchncs.de: if you are on p2pool mini with blocks getting fucked by pubes then maybe longer 07:26:13 frogmindset stop 07:46:50 plowsof: huh??? 07:47:24 wait what 07:47:32 i actually dont remember what i sent lol 07:51:18 @tr3-vr:matrix.tr3-vr.com: whats going on with the mini chain? 07:51:44

@frogmindset:matrix.org: orphaned by qubic 07:51:59

there was one where it was like 700% effort 07:52:45 @tr3-vr:matrix.tr3-vr.com: wtf is qubic and what is it doing?? 08:40:31 "wtf is qubic and what is it doing??" Just google "Qubic Monero" and read one of the many (mostly somewhat questionable, and often sensationalistic) articles about what's happening. 08:49:13 @rbrunner7: so basically it screwed over monero miners? 08:51:56 if im reading this correctly 08:55:30 so what happens now? 08:58:32 then again who knows if their claim of 51% is true 09:09:36 @frogmindset:matrix.org: -> https://rekt.news/hashrate-heist-or-hype 09:11:41 ohh those jerks are why i kept losing my payout 09:11:43 makes sense 09:15:35 wow quibic has actually maybe the worst website i have ever seen 09:15:50 its like the generic tech bro startup website 09:18:26 seriously, go look it up 09:34:05 @frogmindset:matrix.org: Mystery sells , their target audience is different 09:34:07 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/IHCbjJjqNJqUkOpZybTvUvXb.jpeg (ima_7bdeee7.jpeg) 09:35:17 @elongated:matrix.org: i am concerned if people willingly follow the website that has zero info on it on what its about 10:04:34 Qubic is old news, they kind of lost their momentum, nobody cares anymore 10:09:42 @eddie:oblak.be: They are still a threat to monero 10:10:21 Keep mining, keep developing, keep calm 10:11:01 If they wanted to really destroy the network they would've by now. But they didn't. 10:14:02 they're mostly making a profit by abusing the network, is my understanding 10:15:24 they're delaying transactions and getting block rewards.. but it's hard to believe they are really making a profit tbh 10:16:28 they get more blocks than they should with their current hashrate overall, hence more coinbases 10:22:06 Around 9% more blocks, by my calculations (taking into account blocks they orphaned vs their own blocks that got orphaned) 10:23:11 But they're not making a profit. In the end this all is sponsored by their coin's emission and "investors buying" to keep their price from falling 10:23:46 Oh, and also the qearn thing where miners lock their coins instead of dumping them on the market. Typical ponzi scheme 10:32:57 well, i would hope that at some point, they run out of money or cash out and stop :p 10:41:36 helene: They will soon ! 11:04:32 their blocks have less txs in them so they get less than 9% extra 12:07:51 They get 9% extra from block rewards. Fees are usually 1-2% of the block reward. So maybe 8% extra overall 12:09:19 sech1: you are miscounting the extra block they need on each run 12:09:52 I have been trying to quantify each "run" automatically to do per-run numbers 12:11:31 numbers are right, but offsets the expected profit 12:12:04 Qubic blocks orphaned in last 1440 heights: 130/451, Other blocks orphaned in last 1440 heights: 168/1287 12:12:13 so they lost 130 but gained 168 blocks, right? 12:12:32 (451-130+168)/451=1.084 12:12:51 maybe I can't count 168 as "gained" 12:13:16 What matters in the end is how many blocks they have on the blockchain after all reorgs 12:13:33 basically for the 130 "orphan" they have 12:13:43 minus a few specific cases 12:13:50 for each "run" there they'd need +1 12:14:18 that is the implicit cost of selfish mining 12:15:13 to calculate how much they gained, as effectively, the block "spent" is not selfish, just a normal block 12:15:29 The actual % should be counted if how many blocks they found vs how many blocks are still on the blockchain after reorgs 12:15:35 *counted as 12:16:46 so 1 - (130/449) 12:17:14 reverse of percentage shown 12:17:20 around 71% of their blocks exist on chain 12:17:59 right 12:18:22 1440/0.71=2028 12:18:36 1440 is absolute heights 12:18:39 so if there are less than 2028 overall blocks in the last 1440 height, they are losing rewards 12:19:01 and there are less than that there 12:19:02 there are 1735 blocks 12:19:26 if you want to see full history, it's linked on site as well https://blocks.p2pool.observer/fullplot.svg 12:19:26 They would've gotten more XMR without selfish mining, but don't tell them that :D 12:19:34 that was always true :D 12:19:40 but doesn't do marketing 12:20:24 minus specific timing races also the key part is the extra block they need 12:21:25 So orphan rate 29.08% for Qubic, and 12.81% for others means Qubic is losing 12:22:43 of all orphans, the split is like 45/55% usually 12:23:01 qubic orphans are 45%, but they orphan the other 55%, but ofc that's only looking at orphans themselves 12:23:20 to orphan that 55% they need the extra block on top which is not counted as part of the run 12:23:46 the specific orphan blocks shows it directly, even while they cause more orphans on the other side, the actual rates are lower 12:24:23 you'd think that due to bringing difficulty up they also get some more, but, they are bringing difficulty up regardless 13:04:36 These calculations go a bit over my head, thus my question: What must change until Qubic's selfish mining switches from "not profitable" to "profitable"? A bit more hashrate on their side? 13:19:30 In the last 1440 height, they got 445-132= blocks (21.7%). If they didn't selfish mine, they would've gotten 445/1734=25.6% 13:19:55 So their efficiency is 21.7/25.6= 13:20:03 85% 13:20:13 And it must be > 100% for selfish mining to be profitable 13:20:23 DataHoarder can you add this calculation and the final number to the page? 13:20:58 it's not entirely correct, due to races and extra block, but hmm, I can add it 13:21:24 It's just the last 1440 height as they are now vs what could have been if they didn't selfish mine (all 1734 blocks) 13:21:48 Which means "what if all orphaned blocks weren't orphaned" 13:22:59 it's not perfect but gives a value 13:29:23 Qubic blocks orphaned in last 1440 heights: 131/443 (29.57%) (total orphan rate 45.02%, efficiency 84.66%) 13:29:23 Other blocks orphaned in last 1440 heights: 160/1288 (12.42%) (total orphan rate 54.98%, efficiency 105.28%) 13:55:15 Nice 13:56:39 sech1: tevador's upstream RandomX repo has a JIT compiler for RISC-V, i wonder if that could be ported over to xmrig 13:59:28 (in an unrelated topic) 14:02:22 xmrig has quite a few modifications, so it's not easy to port. It will require a rework of many places in the code 14:35:31 sech1: I'll push these changes in a bit, rewriting that code now to also be able to show details on orphan blocks 14:35:48 given the explorers err :) 15:39:40 Qubic blocks in last 1440 heights: 318 (22.08%), orphaned 122/440 (27.73%), total orphan rate 42.81%, efficiency 86.58% 15:39:40 Qubic reward in last 1440 heights: 193.62/885.84 XMR (21.86%), orphaned 73.86 XMR, block average 0.607932799418 XMR 15:39:40 vs 15:39:40 Other blocks in last 1440 heights: 1122 (77.92%), orphaned 163/1285 (12.68%), total orphan rate 57.19%, efficiency 104.60% 15:39:40 Other reward in last 1440 heights: 692.22/885.84 XMR (78.14%), orphaned 102.87 XMR, block average 0.618749716565 XMR 16:53:07 Q**bic just did a 9 block reorg few minutes ago !! 🙄 16:53:45 I wonder if they limit themselves to 9 blocks 16:54:04 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/tchncs.de/1c79dab0a2a86d6a526a16188666f31766762d961966908243213025280.jpg (14109.jpg) 16:58:21 @ravfx:xmr.mx: yes cc DataHoarder , its written in their code. it would be detrimental to both projects should they invalidate transactions 16:58:56 they seem to have increased the buffer to 2 blocks 16:59:15 afaict kevino is talking about an 8 block re-org 16:59:16 they did an 8 block reorg. they could do up to 9, by having 10 blocks 16:59:27 c 16:59:49 qubic also pads their blocks with useless txs for the rest of monero 16:59:59 https://irc.gammaspectra.live/1f3b6c7ea59cc2c6/image.png 17:00:13 here one block had two txs... but all of them were theirs 17:00:47 https://irc.gammaspectra.live/691347a4bbdc572b/image.png 17:00:53 @plowsof:matrix.org: Yeah sorry , the alternate chain was 8 blocks and they had to mine 9 blocks for longest chain 17:01:00 6 decoys total in 3 blocks, only 6 monero valid txs 17:01:13 in this case kevino they mined 10, released early 17:01:27 So theoretically one can double spend if 10 block reorg happened and my transaction was left out ? 17:03:19 there's two levels, one for the miner itself and other for anyone else 17:03:34 your tx also goes back to mempool and can't double spend directly without the miner help 17:03:37 How do you identify decoy transactions ? 17:03:50 however, global output index past 10+ blocks is the larger issue 17:04:05 see Legend 17:04:07 > Decoy transactions are not previously seen transactions on mempool. 17:04:24 for blocks incoming, I match to transactions not previously seen by nodes beforehand 17:05:23 some of these txs can land in other blocks but you can identify explicitly qubic ones easier 17:08:15 The transaction stays in mempool for 72hrs before its dropped ? 17:09:21 DataHoarder: Maybe use a different term than "decoy transactions"? 17:09:28 Decoys already have a meaning in Monero 17:09:36 Yeah, I couldn't find a better term 17:09:39 hidden? 17:10:00 Submarine 17:10:03 Witheld 17:10:57 withheld lemme see if it fits 17:16:44 see now, rucknium 17:18:49 DataHoarder: Looks good! 17:21:09 Just "unseen transactions" ? 17:21:26 How are they "withheld" 17:22:12 The transactions are made, but not broadcasted 17:22:28 They can take upwards of 30m-1h at times until they release them 17:23:24 If they are in a block that they broadcast, then they are broadcasted inside of the block, of course (right?). 17:24:30 they broadcast them just seconds ahead 17:24:38 or within block itself, yeah 17:25:29 other times some take longer and are only observed later when querying monero nodes across the network for orphans they have 17:25:40 alt blocks* 17:26:14 So they are no more in the mempool but included in blocks 17:30:12 well, they release them later as well, but then those get flagged on early alt blocks 17:30:52 basically we can see the tx existed at but only made available way later, across multiple viewpoints in the network 17:31:49 specially when they mine a block that has the TX at and it's only when they attempt a reorg and publish a block at that transaction appears to the rest of Monero network 17:34:59 Have they modifed their nodes to not to publish blocks and such transactions to rest of the network? 17:35:38 since the start of their selfish mining attempts, yes 17:36:06 that's how they build the parallel chain (or just disconnect them from network) 20:30:10 im new to monero 20:30:26 should i go with monero cli or monero gui? 20:31:23 either, CLI is terminal ofc but works well 20:31:31 stdmt19937: monero GUI or featherwallet if want high anonymity 20:31:32 there is also feather wallet 20:32:09 never knew about feather wallet 20:33:19 featherwallet dot org 20:34:12 thanks! 20:35:14 https://www.getmonero.org/downloads/ 20:38:41 welp the scammer in my dm are back 20:38:41 @br-m doesnt cli have anonymity? 20:38:55 lol 20:39:01 > The CLI wallet gives you the total control over your Monero node and funds. Highly customizable and includes various analysis tools, as well as an HTTP RPC and 0MQ interface. 20:39:46 they're all the same 20:40:13 okay well 20:41:08 question, is there a way to block people on matrix? im pretty new to it 20:42:46 br-m: what is matrix? 20:46:05 whats that