05:12:31 Even if privacy isn't a concern once you swap into Monero (and I'd prefer to treat it like it still can be, just due to some currently-unknown flaw, you can never know if a system is perfect), I'd avoid CEX like plague. Not another place for my ID to leak. 05:40:57 Context? 05:49:59 torir above suggested buying Monero (or a coin to swap into it) through a CEX. 05:58:57 If you are already using a cex, the only issue is that your kyc'd transparent coin will now be in the hands of a non-kyc user 05:59:26 So you could be blamed for what is done with the coins by someone else 06:04:04 Yeah, I just assumed we weren't talking about damage already done, indeed. 06:29:13 For some threat models, a CEX is acceptable. For some... it's not. 06:30:58 It is an option for buying Monero that is valid for many people at the present moment. 06:32:03 Especially if you are in the rare situation where you can use a CEX that doesn't require KYC. 06:34:41 We do need to remember that if we push away the people who find it acceptable to use a centralized KYC exchange to buy Monero, we hurt adoption. We can't gatekeep and lock out ordinary people who don't need strong privacy but are willing to try it out. 06:35:03 The more ordinary people who use Monero, the harder it is for governments to ban it. 06:36:17 For me it would be inacceptable just because it's another place that can leak data sensitive enough for people to commit crimes in my name. 16:00:27 > <@torir:matrix.org> We do need to remember that if we push away the people who find it acceptable to use a centralized KYC exchange to buy Monero, we hurt adoption. We can't gatekeep and lock out ordinary people who don't need strong privacy but are willing to try it out. 16:00:27 Disagree. Ordinary people are sheeps who would willingly switch to using paper monero over a 1% cash back, or just coupons to stuffs, or just free toilet papers. Then the government can debase their paper monero. 16:00:27 People were trading in gold, then the government convinces people to trade in paper pegged to gold, then the government "temporarily" suspends the convertibility from paper to gold. Governments can do same to monero. 16:00:27 [... more lines follow, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_tiX478KMXY1VDRv ] 16:06:39 but we still benefit from ordinary people using monero :P 16:06:46 like wider adoption, more places to spend monero 16:06:55 and it being less of a niche thing 16:07:44 it's easier to crush monero if people intentionally sabotage the wide adoption of it 16:07:51 and gatekeep to the point of it being a niche currency 16:07:57 for governments 16:10:28 i don't believe in your "mass sheep adoption" theory 16:13:01 "paper monero" - you mean cash? I still think it's king in the physical world 16:13:17 Monero is for when cash is impractical 16:14:10 also btw i feel like the term "sheep" suggests a sense of superiority 16:14:17 and that's like.. dumb 16:16:21 YES 16:17:19 Sindy: It's not. People who see the importance of privacy is, at least in one aspect, superior to those ho don't. 16:17:47 shut up wit this corny shit 16:17:53 BlueyHealer: Anything custodial is paper monero. 16:18:19 Sindy: Nope. 16:19:02 Ah, you meant more metaphorically. Understood! 16:19:16 I do not think it is a good term for this at all, though 16:22:20 i don't think pushing away people for using CEXs is a good idea 16:25:02 Sindy: True. 16:27:01 Yeah, if you already were using them - it's a way. But I wouldn't be advising signing up for it after. 16:27:57 My point is that adoption by people who would use custodial monero over real monero due to some trivial benefits wouldn't help much when government tries to ban monero 16:28:59 We do need cex even if there annoying / a-hole sometime 16:28:59 It's more exposure to people at the end. But ideally they would have asset proof and some way to actually audit if there not doing shady thing 16:29:47 @moneroni:matrix.org: That's a problem with any crypto yeah, one should only leave in the exchange, what you need for your current trading operation. 16:29:47 Using the exchange as a wallet is dumb as we saw many many time lol 16:30:11 people don't learn and still do it 16:31:12 Exchange vanishing with the funds did occure way more frecently than "gouvernement baning one of the coin". 16:32:07 the EU ban on monero will filter out the crappy CEXs at least 16:35:25 I was talking about joining a CEX at first 16:35:32 Sindy: Well, as long as the good exchange don't operate at OVH 16:35:33 before starting caring 16:39:36 is there anyway i can use retroswap without having to despoit xmr? 16:39:49 im trying to buy with paypal 16:48:24 Would need to find a "no deposit" offer 16:48:30 dang 16:48:52 i guess nobody takes a no deposit offer as its too risky 17:03:35 what do you guys recommend to use to buy xmr with fiat? 17:03:44 like paypal, moneygram stuff like that 17:12:05 retoswap 17:27:10 Anything but scampal ideally. 17:27:10 Too easy to reverse payment, its why seller who accept that scam add an extra 10-20% to there profit margin 17:27:48 And hope that extra profit will cover the loss from the people who manage to reverse the transaction 17:28:06 what is scampal? 17:28:14 Paypal 17:28:22 ok 17:28:36 damm i just cannot use id 17:28:37 like anywhere in the process 17:28:39 thats what makes it hard 17:28:41 Its like the most high risk payment method that exist 17:28:49 yes true 17:29:04 i wish i could just buy monero easily with no kyc 17:29:11 its just gotta be this way though sadly 17:31:37 the problem with all the others is that you need id 17:31:44 atleast paypal doesnt require id 17:53:04 Could do cash payment on retoswap 18:41:17 test 18:43:40 Got a question, with FCMP++ will only the transactions done after the hard-fork count in the anonimity set? 18:44:27 If not, does it mean that the first transaction done will have an anonimity set of 1? 18:46:23 No FCMP++'s key image composition proof is backwards compatible with Cryptonote / RIngCT key images. The very first FCMP++ tx will have an anon set of however many transaction outputs are in the chain at that time. So >150M 18:47:11 is there a monero explorer for the FCMP++ testnet? 18:47:27 @jeffro256: Thanks 18:48:22 Sindy: Are you in the #monero-stressnet:monero.social room? 18:48:32 no 18:48:38 i'm on IRC 18:48:49 Ah 18:49:22 Well that's a good room to join, there's a link in the room description: http://stressgguj7ugyxtqe7czeoelobeb3cnyhltooueuae2t3avd5ynepid.onion/ 18:51:20 ring members for one TX is... empty 18:51:58 Yes 18:52:10 Because there are no rings anymore. FCMP++ replaces ring signatures. 18:52:12 is it too big to display 18:52:14 oh 18:52:42 Instead of 15 decoys, your anonymity set per transaction is the full blockchain. 18:54:18 FCMP++ doesn't use anything like a ring construction anymore, it proves membership through something more akin to a Merkle tree. An FCMP++ transaction thus doesn't contain ring member references anymore, it solely references a single block which is used to deference a Merkle tree root 18:54:57 how does taht work 18:56:10 You could start by reading the curve trees paper: https://eprint.iacr.org/2022/756.pdf 18:57:30 Sindy: Man… to truely understand what’s going on you would probably need a degree in mathematics 18:57:55 We are fortunate enough to have people to ELI5 us 18:58:34 i suck at math 18:58:34 Sindy: Do you know what a Merkle tree is actually? I would start there first before moving to curve trees 18:58:39 @testtank:matrix.org: Discrete Data structures free MIT class would get you pretty close, no? 18:58:41 but i try my best 18:58:44 jeffro256: i do 18:58:50 i've actually used them to split files into chunks 18:58:54 and hash them into a tree 18:59:03 for one root hash 18:59:19 but wtf is this 18:59:23 I have a presentation at MoneroKon 25 that goes into some more details but they still haven't published the videos :/ 19:00:01 oh well 19:00:08 @jeffro256: Yeah i was wondering about that 19:00:09 Wtf 19:00:19 Still havent published the videos 19:03:23 20:48:38 i'm on IRC 19:03:23 join ##monero-stressnet 19:04:07 the curve tree whitepaper is like 19:04:12 hurting my brain 19:04:27 it's like trying to climb up a mountain from understanding merkle trees 19:14:04 Hello people! I do not own my own node in monero (simple mode from gui getmonero), it sounds that the node could reach my ip. If I keep the same wallet, from another computer configure to run with tor, will it work? 19:14:09 to relmain anonymous 19:14:55 @yatta:private.coffee: 🤷‍♂️ 19:15:04 gogo2464: just use tor 19:15:20 the privacy risk comes from sending a transaction to a remote node 19:15:31 because your transaction ID will be associated with your IP address 19:15:43 by the remote node operator, if they wish 19:17:39 if you use tor, and a monero node hosted over tor, there will be no IP to associate your transaction with 19:44:38 I am seeing this Thorchain proposal on the CCS, hahahahaha. these guys squandered like what, 250 million dollar or something, and now they ask XMR to fund their idea 😂 the nerve... 19:46:46 thorchain has a dev fee 19:46:54 they already have the money to do this 19:48:04 but of course 19:48:05 that's why it's so ridiculous 19:48:40 They need monero, we don't need Thor 😂 20:02:37 Sindy ok then I keep my wallet but I exchange over tor, and then it will be ok 20:06:26 ? 20:13:37 @gogo2464:matrix.org: The 50 step tutorial on how to use crypto in 2025 xD 20:15:48 <321bob321> Where ready for mainstream 20:46:48 does monero GUI use the socks5 proxy setting for remote nodes? 20:56:51 Ya 21:02:26 ofrnxmr: i'd like the GUI to use a onion monero node if it detects tor being used 21:02:34 or same thing with I2P 21:02:38 is that a pending PR? 22:01:52 @whoever is running the repo.getmonero.org server, I tried to activate my account but the confirmation mail never arrived 22:02:39 your mail server is probably blackholing emails 22:02:43 what server are you using 22:02:50 My spam filter is rejecting the emails because the mail server that is sending the emails for this gitlab instance is misconfigured: 22:02:51 Helo command rejected: need fully-qualified hostname 22:03:23 I could exempt the sender, but I rather have someone fix that configuration 22:04:40 Sindy: Exactly, and for good reason. The sending mailserver is leaking metadata 22:07:20 eddie: what was the hostname that repo.getmonero.org gave in its HELO command 22:07:42 it's not leaking metadata, but probably just misconfigured 22:07:54 helo= 22:08:31 okay, i'd like to thik that whatever mail server they used 22:08:37 it used the system's hostname as the domain name 22:08:55 no shit :p 22:08:58 which is dumb :P 22:09:21 it's most likely a default postfix or exim config 22:11:04 also ubuntu 18.4 is EOL since 2023 at least for the free version 22:11:43 anyway, I will gladly help to fix this if help is needed 22:18:01 Also, this ubuntu machine sends mails from 178.63.96.7, a hetzner hosted box for the domain getmonero.org. 22:18:01 However, the spf record doesn't mention this IP, which is also a problem, strictly speaking. 22:31:41 An issue is not only consistent email delivery, I see cloudflare proxy was configured for the subdomain repo.getmonero.org but this email configuration is leaking the origin IP 22:38:41 The simplest way to fix this is to disable the locally installed mail daemon, and send emails through a decent smtp relay, zoho offers this most likely. 22:55:24 I said Zoho, because the MX servers listed for getmonero.org are zoho's. So I assume there's a getmonero.org hosting plan with Zoho. They also offer clear instructions to use their smtp relay (use TLS); Zoho does, if this Zoho : https://www.zoho.com/mail/help/zoho-smtp.html#smtp-details 22:58:26 I'm sorry if this is to specific for a generic channel like this, please advise where it is more appropriate 23:08:39 fwd'd