00:03:28 @lupininmontecarlo:calitabby.net: I think then, for you, for now, the answer is no, there was no inflation. At some point, you reach your technical limits, and you have to trust, rather than verify. 00:03:28 But you continue learning and one day, you understand enough to do the calculations yourself. Then you verify for yourself. 00:03:28 And if we're all wrong, may you come back and burn us with the fire of a thousand suns. 00:34:48 wazzup my niggaz https://t.co/1RIbf9zwkY 00:39:59 niggersz 00:40:19 gammble your life savings under my code!!! 00:59:14 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:16 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:19 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:21 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:24 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:27 duel.com/r/marketing 00:59:29 duel.com/r/marketing 01:01:16 Is that windows default desktop PC Name 01:01:17 Can Crosoft track that please? Thanks! 01:01:55 yes 01:37:55 @plowsof:matrix.org 01:38:00 Delete the spam plz 02:22:12 does the spam just not leave the matrix side with new bridge? also are poop and hammer emotes the only way to help mod? 02:22:23 or can others be pinged? 02:54:43 Just join irc where all messages remain forever 03:02:42 i will as soon as I can into bouncers but it's confusing to get setup 03:46:09 <321bob321> Thanks mbll 04:15:37 04:22:12 does the spam just not leave the matrix side with new bridge? also are poop and hammer emotes the only way to help mod? 04:15:37 messages afaik can be deleted the same as a normal matrix user 04:15:53 matrix puppets can be even kicked/banned 07:49:31 they were k-lined shortly after 07:55:54 cleaned on matrix also (eventually) 07:56:35 networkops are surpisingly very active 07:56:53 if they spammed in the matrix side, you'd have to wait until the ops woke up :P 08:03:44 banhammer is active which has some anti spam stuff but its not Mjolnir and it didnt seem to work 08:24:20 How much disk does the fcmp stressnet node need and can i run it through tor network? 08:32:48 #monero-stressnet:monero.social @proponent8967:matrix.org , version 2 has 2 tor seed nodes added so it should be possible https://github.com/seraphis-migration/monero/releases 08:33:39 lmdb is about 33GB currently not pruned 15:24:20 Hi 15:25:20 Will Monero eventually be used for everyday transactions? 15:30:26 yes 15:36:19 luckylinux: will? it's already being used for everyday transactions: I just completed an escrow for a designer and their client on xmrbazaar.com 5 minutes ago :) Both are happy! 15:40:51 and right before that, I completed an escrow for the luqior seller https://xmrbazaar.com/user/vegasdreams: an order from their returning customer... does it count as "everyday transactions"? 15:41:29 i had a design question 15:42:49 should i have mediators per activitypub community? 15:43:01 (a.k.a. like lemmy community) 15:43:22 or should the instances have their own mediators 15:43:49 i'm still working on a federated marketplace :P 15:49:15 I wish xmrbazaar had an option to filter out AI slop though - the number of listings using it leaves a VERY gross impression. Especially their own banner, that's just sad. 15:50:05 BlueyHealer: yeah that's one of the problems of xmrbazaar 15:51:21 but i doubt they'll bother if even the mods use AI for their photo listings and the banner 15:52:18 Sindy_: we are working on it :) 15:53:06 i hope :P 15:53:21 That's really good news! 15:53:52 Like, asking you upon first visit whether you want to see it, for more neutrality. 15:54:58 the AI banner leaves a terrible first-impression on the site 15:55:23 Like, if a listing has a sludge image, this option could blur/hide it, not even hiding the listing itself (unless, well, the whole listing is about AI). But idk how you'd go with marking them - would it be moderators or sellers should be required to do that?.. 15:56:04 Sindy_, YES. And that's sad because such a site is very important. Like, even simple colors or a gradient would work better. 15:56:20 * BlueyHealer should try a sketch in gimp 15:56:22 even a stock photo of a bazaar (those exist) 15:56:26 ye 15:56:37 Or a photo edit! 15:56:49 increase the price of boosted until we see less slop 15:56:59 (although this is more ethically blurry, on second thought) 15:57:11 BlueyHealer: i'd just say push down AI-generated listings when the sellers mark it as AI 15:57:23 if the sellers don't mark their AI-generated listings as AI, they get penaltized 15:57:34 push down in search* 15:58:05 I would personally go with that, but I was talking generously, given that a lot of people are not disgusted by it (even if I personally very much disagree). 15:58:50 i already see a ton of AI slop in my google search, hogging the first pages 15:59:30 if AI slop is treated the same as someone who took time and effort to make their listing, then it doesn't really encourage effort 15:59:36 it just encourages more slop 16:01:28 so i wouldn't mind if the AI slop listings were downranked below the listings with actual effort put into them 16:03:27 Not just Google, it's everywhere :_( 16:04:29 And yeah, personally I would prefer that, I am just not sure how it'd go with the "freedom of speech" theme. What's objective is that a banner should NOT be AI. 16:04:50 yeah i was thinking the same too 16:04:55 too many real problems : https://xcancel.com/xmrbazaar/status/1979554616951070880 > i hope :P 16:04:57 would that constitute as censorship or something 16:06:03 links an AI tweet 😆 16:07:27 @plowsof:matrix.org: AI only added emojis to https://xmrbazaar.com/changelog 16:08:07 What is even the point of emojis in this context? 16:08:25 coz it's f*ng social media 16:08:44 They add nothing to the text, and make it look all weird... 16:08:54 kinda like a children's book 16:09:24 xmrbazaar is an AI slop friendly operation (combining the banner on the site, the boosted garbage + its very own twitter account) 16:09:49 best of luck changing the appearance first 16:10:00 honestly you don't even have to look at that 16:10:20 aillia uses AI themselves for generating images for their own listings 16:10:36 and it just seems like it's validating the issue 16:10:39 but my bias is : i am anti Yelp type sites . if they become popular enough, they go downhill 16:10:43 welll, making it worse 16:10:54 anti-AI cult? 16:11:26 i wanna market xmrbazaar to normal people, but the overwhelming amount of AI slop makes it appear the same as any other AI slop website 16:11:39 @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: Yes 16:11:49 they get that "oh, it's just AI" and immediately click off 16:11:59 Fucking AI is draining the life out of contributions 16:12:05 thats not the target audience the AI slop listing want though 16:12:17 so its good for business that the sane people click away 16:12:19 Fuckin ccs, bounties, hackerone, issues, pull requests 16:12:24 Fucking annoying 16:13:10 @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: AI derangement syndrome :) 16:13:23 2nd most recent AI slop on GUI pull requests, is sentient. It's doing bounties to try to give itself a promotion 16:13:34 One of the stated goals in the slop, is to purchase copilot pro 16:13:44 And copilot obv wrote that 16:14:34 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I agree that's a problem, but AI images for product listings isn't 16:14:45 and site banners 16:15:10 Sindy_, do we even have anything like xmrbazaar? 16:16:07 ofrnxmr, this reminds me of how Curl got fed up with AI issues, lol. People were "finding" them and not even checking if they exist. 16:16:58 I need to know more about the difference to reply. Any links? > or should the instances have their own mediators 16:16:59 IMO if there isn't a suitable pic, better put nothing on your listing than slop, it just turns normal people away. 16:17:07 @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: I'm not referring to that 16:17:23 Im just talking about my general fed-up-ness with ai abuse 16:17:50 BlueyHealer: your opinion, not a problem 16:18:20 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/p/lZOMtsAKQmFiZUJj/1.txt (code snippet, 10 lines) 16:18:27 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: agreed 16:18:37 a VERY common opinion, though. 16:19:01 heresay 16:19:19 Not to mention such imagery being associated with low-effort scams, so a legit business/offer has to be better. 16:19:40 just lazy, and seemingly not willing to contribute to the ecosystem - as we know plenty of artists who accept monero for things 16:20:01 showing AI imagery doesn't indicate much, just that they didn't pay for images 16:20:39 Yeah! Artists tend to be VERY turned off by this. 16:21:06 Showing AI imagery also shows they're willing to use non-ethical tools. 16:21:08 sure, but artists can post their services there like anyone else 16:21:28 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/p/7d6XtsAKSUEwS2dJ/1.txt (code snippet, 9 lines) 16:21:34 remember when fiverr embraced AI 16:21:45 they alienated their marketbase 16:21:48 and then fell off 16:21:55 all AI is not the same 16:21:55 @plowsof:matrix.org: Its also that the website isnt foss 16:22:13 source is entirely private** 16:22:16 censored code 16:22:31 meanwhile playing the freedom sovereign card 16:22:48 so banner is what it is, and has been that way from day 1 16:22:54 They're drowning among AI offers, though. And they might very well lose customers from that - if a person is anti-AI, they'd be grossed out and avoid the place by association, and pro-AI might be convinced by the slop artists' cheaper offers. 16:22:56 well yeah, it's also on clearnet, nothing is perfect 16:23:05 BlueyHealer: no, not yet. lol 16:23:15 Sindy_, oh, didn't know that happened! 16:23:19 we're free and open to all but ... no code for you because we're a centralised service in it for the $ , which is fine 16:23:19 (to fiverr) 16:23:41 YES 16:23:42 aillia: i haven't planned it out fully yet lo 16:23:43 @plowsof:matrix.org: its more that its not foss bcuz anarkio doesnt want it to be 16:23:55 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: He doesnt use version controls / git 16:23:58 This goes against the spirit. 16:24:17 also damn people here supporting genAI 16:24:19 boost your ads and get your friends to use it, we're loving and free please thank you 16:24:23 Are there even FOSS market options, even if just the engine and not existing instances?.. 16:24:49 BlueyHealer: particl marketplace, but it doesnt support monero payments 16:24:51 @plowsof:matrix.org: I always prefer foss but I'll take what I can get and work with it until something better comes 16:25:12 ofrnxmr, I meant specifically with XMR integrations, sorry for being unclear. 16:25:15 also when aillia saying "AI derangement syndrome", it says a lot about xmrbazaar 16:25:19 the future of it 16:25:43 BlueyHealer: i understand. I only mention bcu the part community wants monero support 16:25:47 it will choke on its own slop and miss out on a majority of potential people just like fiverr 16:26:23 blindly railing against all AI sounds dogmatic and cultish, not reasonable 16:26:31 i'm not raling against all AI 16:26:36 i'm railing against genAI being abused 16:26:40 Sindy_: I am 16:26:46 yes, a lot of it is used badly. But not all 16:26:56 @captaincanaryllc:captaincanarynode.org: Show me some that didnt 16:26:57 blindly 🥱 16:26:58 genAI is mostly used badly 16:27:29 ofrnxmr, so is XMR considered by the devs as possibility? 16:27:32 Everything i see AI is shit fucked code 16:27:34 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I use it for my listing images 16:27:42 BlueyHealer: yes 16:27:42 wow 16:27:46 unsurpising 16:27:46 nice 16:27:53 I've used local LLMs for fun 16:28:08 BlueyHealer: The issue is just that someone has to do the work 16:28:09 just to be clear, do you want to police what people post beyond illegal things? > it will choke on its own slop and miss out on a majority of potential people just like fiverr 16:28:29 @aillia:matrix.org: i dont know what illegal means 16:28:42 But AI slop postings should be against the rules 16:28:45 Since its spam 16:28:48 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: trouble with state 16:28:50 aillia: you don't have to censor postings, you can downrank AI slop 16:29:01 @aillia:matrix.org: Who? I dont know anyone by that name :P 16:29:06 The code is being censored and the people are forced to use this service, so.sad 16:29:17 when people who use AI gets treated the same as people who spent like 18 hours on a photo for a listing 16:29:25 then people will be discouraged from putting any effort 16:29:29 and the platform will be fully slop 16:29:39 and then it'll die out like that 16:29:43 I think you need to define the term "AI slop" if you want it gone 16:30:25 just look at all the other platforms that "embraced AI" 16:30:36 people got sick of the constant slop and moved out 16:30:50 Does anyone remember when facebook reels were like 99% 10mins videos of people trying to do something 16:30:52 why do listers need to put effort into their listing image? 16:31:04 something something professionalism 16:31:11 😂 16:31:15 according to you 16:31:19 things change 16:31:21 of course 16:31:34 understandable if xmrbazaar does not want to be taken seriously 16:31:35 Do you even mr beast AI thumbnail scandal 16:31:46 are the listings slop, or just the images? 16:31:55 I put more effort into other things (trading monero), not my product listing images 16:32:33 just the images 16:32:38 i agree that boosted should scale 16:32:41 when i advertise my product, i'll just scribble "PC" in mspaint 16:32:50 Like btc fees 16:32:52 I hand-wrote the listings with my own brain 16:33:10 You have to out-bid existing boosts 16:33:49 So if the top boost is 0.1xmr, then the cost to boost should be >0.1xmr 16:33:50 Why didnt you use ai to write your listings? 16:34:03 people should start using AI to write their own listings 16:34:15 aillia, this is why I was generous and suggested a filter. I and a ton of people hate it, but I admit that a filter option (most fairly, on first visit) would be the most fair. 16:34:30 BlueyHealer: it's clear that the staff are huge fans of genAI 16:34:38 because I have no AI that can do better than me, faster 16:34:39 and possibly why this won't be a thing soon 16:35:16 it's sad 16:35:31 cc kewbit : someone is insulting AI 16:35:40 if the AI does a better job faster and cheaper, it will always win. Time to adapt 16:36:01 Adapt or perish right? 16:36:11 captainanaryllic, first - yes, a good image is a good first impression. Second - if you are not willing to put effort... Just don't put it, leave the image blank. It leaves a much better impression than slop. 16:36:22 ^ 16:36:26 i don't know, but I'm just trying to trade monero 16:36:30 if you don't wanan put effort, just like 16:36:33 scribble text on a picture 16:36:36 or put a flat color 16:36:42 or even a image from google 16:36:55 A half-assed job is more noticeable than lack of job at all 16:36:59 BlueyHealer: again, to you. Not to many others 16:37:03 I read tea leaves (markets) + ai generated image listing :D 16:37:10 according to you 16:37:15 you sound like a boomer 16:37:15 Not to many others? This is a VERY common opinion. 16:37:22 I am genZ. 16:37:36 Im a minor 16:37:40 lol 16:37:48 get with the times old man 16:37:54 Other musical tones are available 16:37:54 you sound like a boomer tho, bluey 16:37:55 a lot of gen z are adults now, lol 16:37:58 we have 8 fingers in our arts now 16:38:13 and also very deformed people and non-sensical text 16:38:47 No, this sentiment is very common among younger people, especially those who make art. But people who just enjoy others' art also often share that. 16:40:03 it's called AI fatigue :P 16:40:36 Graphic design isn't exactly fine art. That's the level where AI really excels 16:40:57 you say that, but most xmrbazaar listings with AI slop look garbage 16:40:59 Yes, indeed. I feel like it's a temporary epidemic though, and a fad peak may pass. 16:41:05 they have non-sensical text 16:41:05 Like how NFTs were a fad 16:41:15 and also other random elements 16:41:24 sometimes it doesn't even get the monero logo right 16:42:08 ye 16:42:42 While graphic design might indeed be not quite the art "with soul", using AI for it feels like a statement. 16:42:51 I don't really care how it looks, just how it works 16:42:54 (that's even besides the unethicality of the tools) 16:42:59 graphic design is my fav part really 16:43:01 I htink many are the same 16:43:05 i like learning how to use GIMP 16:43:12 It works by creating a bad first impression! 16:43:24 ^ 16:43:33 I also don't care about politics so I don't understand that part of the debate 16:44:01 Seriously, If I see someone using AI art in any "official" capacity I assume they're a buffoon and avoid them like the plague. 16:44:05 Sindy_, the extent of my Gimp skills is "clean up a drawing scan", but I think I can sketch up something that would be better than AI in that place. 16:44:13 I think I'll go try tomorrow. 16:44:21 You want to give off the worst possible impression? Use GenAI, by all means. 16:44:22 i've been using gimp a lot these days 16:44:57 and i've learnt how to use most of the tools it has under its arsenal 16:45:00 fartbubbler, YES. Also this makes you look like those popup scammers from social media ads. 16:45:06 (mostly because i have to photoshop real images lol) 16:45:08 Ironically the only people that might not care about it ARE boomers since they're the only ones that seem to get fooled consistently. 16:45:13 I used photoshop and other adobe programs professionally for many years. People don't want to pay for that skill most of the time, even before AI 16:46:16 but they still want to post listings, so they use AI to make something that looks fine, like me 16:46:35 fartbubbler, I don't think it's generational, to be fair. I feel like it's more of a matter of how alert and educated you are. 16:46:44 I don't even have a computer that can run Adobe CC anymore 16:47:00 A half-assed job is more noticeable than lack of a job at all. 16:47:09 Exactly 16:47:26 It speaks to the level of effort you're gonna put into the job 16:47:35 You're cutting corners on the face of it 16:47:40 just open it (Sindy_,BlueyHealer don't be afraid --no AI here (made in Krita/excalidraw)), but it sums things up https://xcancel.com/themerit0crat/status/1978846295956574588 16:48:51 Also, when I use genAI used for memes - I think how even a stick drawing or a crude photo edit would have been more charming. Like, one of the funniest videos I know is a stick figure "slideshow". 16:49:11 just on the listing image, I don't cut corners on the trades. The image is almost irrelevant but it looks better than a blank listing ( I correlate blank listing images with low effort) 16:49:22 shoutout my boy stickdeath.com 16:50:13 Yeah, I get it. But what I meant is that by cutting corners on the cover, you are making the book look worse than it is, and making people hesitant to see that it is actually good. 16:50:44 to you, but no one else ever said that to me 16:51:01 I think reviews and rep are more important 16:53:10 I'd say they are, but I also know that like everything in life they can also be gamed. Personally, if I see someone trying to sell something with AI art I'm gonna go out of my way to avoid them if possible. 16:53:45 well you'd be missing out on some good listings 16:54:00