01:27:11 hi guys, can the CLI wallet create QR codes, either as PNG or ascii art? 01:43:52 Pretty sure 01:55:43 show_qr_code 02:07:28 br-m: awesome thank you 04:41:13 What kind of crypto use proof of stake? O.o 04:43:43 A lot 04:46:07 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I'm sure, but trying to find which aren't shitcoins xD Ethereum seems to use it i think 04:46:35 Yea 04:46:43 Instead of miners it's called validators? 04:46:54 yea 04:46:59 Interesting stuff 04:50:28 I'm gonna need to try this xD seems super cool 05:15:56 Huh, it needs 32 Etherium to become a validator? So 100k eur? Lol 06:04:21 aight fuck it, taking the bait on that one, just in case wholesome shits lol 06:04:49 @prime:heyadora.com: u aware of pokemon? well crypto is pretty much the same, there's alot of shit pokemon, pikachu is goated af tho 06:09:46 at the moment am unclear what the state of Proof of Work will be for Monero, since there is currently work being done regarding that 06:09:46 but Proof of Stake does have alot of flaws, Ethereum used to be Proof of Work (GPU mining) but moved over to PoS few years ago, because the ones that already had big bags figured that was the way for them to make more $, or something along those lines or at least my interpretation of it lol 06:24:47 From what I understand, it does have less energy usage - it's just still a lot and comes with too significant downsides. 06:25:33 I wonder just how hard it is to run an ETH validator now. 06:32:21 @fungible.:matrix.org: Lmao 06:35:11 :3 06:36:15 BlueyHealer: tbh, i still think PoW is the way but i just been way too lazy for awhile to do any of that techy shit, the whole maintaining the rigs and so on... 06:38:36 so i guess for now is let's wait and see on what that finality layer thing will even be about, to have a better idea of the options right now 06:39:34 I always knew about crypto but never really got into it tbh xD but it looks so fun now that I learned more stuff > <@fungible.:matrix.org> at the moment am unclear what the state of Proof of Work will be for Monero, since there is currently work being done regarding that 06:40:13 Is monero made in Rust? Where is the src? 06:40:49 c++ if i not mistaken but alot of things in the ecosystem right now are being written in rust, SeraiDEX being one of them, there is also Cuprate and so on 06:41:06 https://github.com/monero-project/monero 06:41:38 as for cuprate, is a work in progress type thing: 06:41:38 https://github.com/Cuprate/cuprate 06:56:22 @fungible.:matrix.org: Very interesting 07:01:29 wtf zcash is at 665? that's crazy 07:02:00 666 lol 07:02:52 🤘😈🤘 07:04:10 @fungible.:matrix.org: Do you think it's dangerous if I buy crypto with my real identity and then exchange it to Monero? O.o 07:06:06 depends of your real identity tbh, for most would say is whatever, you can just churn those funds away afterward, i personally been doing retoswap instead of KYC, walking the doggos, befriending other doggos walkers and then they do the thingy on my behalf type of thing 07:08:14 I avoid CEXes just because it's one more place for a leak. And if there's a crackdown, there'd be evidence that some years ago I bought crypto. 07:08:36 @prime:heyadora.com: It's not dangerous but banks and govts obv hate monero so they will definitely put you on a watch list 07:09:08 BlueyHealer: Agreed. Crackdowns are inevitable 07:11:26 I don't even think about crackdowns on XMR in particular, just crypto in general. 07:12:32 i guess, if your identity is not known in the community, you could do retoswap without too much worry since it's peer to peer and people wouldnt be keeping logs on that type of things 07:12:32 would still avoid centralized exchanges tho, KYC leaks been happening all over the place from them :/ 07:13:30 Leaks in general are at all time high, even more reasons to not use CEX 07:13:40 right 07:15:42 @fungible.:matrix.org: Very interesting, i hate gray areas xD 07:15:55 x) 07:16:47 Leaks would be biggest and most realistic concern about this, ye 07:17:41 Like I would gladly even report every transaction i make to the gov or whatever xD just let me legally use this stuff 07:19:07 right that make senses, i mean, specially for business owners, they not doing that shit for free and they gotta comply regardless 07:19:07 idk much about complying tho x) 07:19:43 I've seen screenshots of some businesses having a markup on payments that are done in crypto. 07:19:58 but there are business like shopinbit for example, it works for them so why not u know 07:20:31 Apparently due to regulations. That seems like a fair tradeoff, at least they're not asking for KYC, just somewhat compensating for risks. 07:22:25 @prime:heyadora.com: Why? The whole point is eliminating their approval 07:23:19 For a business - less so than for individuals. 07:25:55 @sbt:nope.chat: Eliminating the need for bank approval is already a victory to me xD and I use stuff because it's cool >:3 07:26:46 Making a giant successful store with easy crypto payments would be so cool owo 07:27:06 sounds awesome tbh 07:30:53 its so hard to get businesses to start accepting that crypto thing tho, like, i been involved in my local communities here and there, like asking restaurants if they would accept that crypto thing but alot of the time is just, they dont see it as an alternative currency but just a way for cryptobros to become rich quick type thing, which is pretty sad tbh 07:34:04 @fungible.:matrix.org: Lol ye, crypto has such bad taste for a lot of people xD 07:34:05 Yeah, the fact that reputation is so tainted is so horrible. 07:36:09 for online businesses tho, there's options that make it easy, payment processors and whatnot, i dont have the names right now but would look at things like shopinbit and things like that, what they're using and having an integration like that i guess 07:36:53 then just complying the same way as they do, reporting sales and whatnot type thing 07:37:00 apparently some of the commercial processors make it pointless by requiring KYC third parties for processing crypto payments though. 07:37:26 Are there ones that allow that normally but still deal with the legal reporting and such? 07:39:06 32 > I wonder just how hard it is to run an ETH validator now. 07:41:21 @fungible.:matrix.org: Crypto not ready 07:44:39 @boriskernov:matrix.org: what would make Crypto ready in your opinion? i think it was ready, but people just went the other way with the nfts, the pumps and dumps and rugpulls or whatever those even are lol 07:45:28 I'm just mad they stained the reputation for legitimate use. 07:45:39 right :/ 07:46:01 @fungible.:matrix.org: Quantum proof, easy ux, very low fees, real privacy without weak ring ct, and possibility to use without internet 07:46:33 Grease L2 can be used without internet right? 07:46:34 Dont know if possible 07:46:57 Possibility to use without internet? Why? The only way i see it happening is face-to-face, and there you have cash. 07:48:08 BlueyHealer: In war internet go out and if dont want reliance on government cash is not option 07:48:26 BlueyHealer: I work in a store, cash is horrible xD i hate counting it 07:48:34 https://redlib.catsarch.com/r/Monero/comments/1ldgawv/grease_turns_out_l2_can_be_cool/ 07:48:34 https://github.com/grease-xmr/grease 07:48:55 (for offline payments at things like events and whatnot) 07:49:13 That sounds farfetched. If SHTF, barter is way more likely and practical than anything electronic. 07:49:49 Not farfetched in happen to me 07:49:53 prime, still - I think it's the way IRL. Crypto shines when the business is not conducted face-to-face. 07:50:16 @prime:heyadora.com: am the opposite on that lol, literally cash all the way x) 07:50:38 boriskernov, oh, sorry to hear... I mean something so weird that normal cash is somehow not an option. 07:50:49 Bitcoin have mesh network without internet 07:51:20 In such a situation, it would be better to pay with something that does not rely on frail enectronics and, y'know, having power to charge your device. 07:51:26 o7 lochamesh 07:51:31 https://github.com/btcven/locha 07:51:44 Cool! 07:51:59 @fungible.:matrix.org: Try counting it 1000 times a day xD it's so annoying. Absolute pain. They buy like one candy with 200eur bill, scream at my face for counting too slowly, etc etc 07:52:00 This still needs internet 07:52:06 @fungible.:matrix.org: Monero support it 07:52:27 You cant boadcast a TX without it touching the internet eventually 07:52:31 Meanwhile others just touch with their debit card and go away owo perfect customer xD 07:52:46 @hooftly:matrix.org: For me this fine 07:52:53 prime, eww, indeed. That's why it's satisfying for me to carry small change) I know cashers appreciate it when you pay exact. 07:52:57 Cake wallet needs offline payments owo 07:53:05 YES 07:53:14 oooh true O_O 07:53:17 pog idea tbh 07:53:44 I am just sorry to hear about this happening to you... But I don't understand how internetless crypto would be better in such a situation than cash? 07:54:44 BlueyHealer: Ruble devalue before and some accept usd in cash. I dont like using usd. Other use ton because telegram popular 07:55:21 Crypto hold value 07:58:24 BlueyHealer: Saves me the trouble of counting cash xD also imagine like refilling phone with 20 eur worth of crypto, so you wouldn't need to pull the entire fortune to a phone that might get lost xd 07:59:24 you could refill your phone in monero already tho :P 07:59:39 Internetless crypto does not work. Even locah mesh needs to connect to the internet eventually to propagate whatever transaction you sent "offline" 07:59:45 @fungible.:matrix.org: Hmmmm 08:00:22 boriskernov, ah! Yeah, we're living through the same thing lol. 08:00:34 @hooftly:matrix.org: For me this fine because internet blackout for days and come back 08:00:36 I'm surprised to see someone actually uses Ton? 08:00:56 @hooftly:matrix.org: that makes senses tbh, i personally dont really have a "need" for interneless crypto, since cash already doing great at that, cool shits tho i guess if is doable lol 08:01:14 Oh sorry didn't mean to word it like that... I mean the same thing affecting our finances. I am so sorry for sounding like this. 08:01:43 All I am trying to say is anyone who tells you that crypto can work without the internet is full of shit haha 08:02:56 hooftly, yeah, that's my issue with that too. That's why I like cash. Still would be very nice to have this feature because, say, here only the mobile internet is in blackout while wired connections work. 08:04:11 * BlueyHealer still feels bad for insensitive wording 08:07:07 @prime:heyadora.com: oh i guess i missread you, i guess you might have been refering to "having to buy a whole phone with esim support just for that" 08:07:28 which those services that work with monero are through esim 08:08:28 @fungible.:matrix.org: Nah, meant people lose phones xD I've heard someone pulled like millions of bitcoin to USB drive and then lost it somewhere xd 08:08:54 right, make backups! 08:09:03 literally a piece of paper can be a backup 08:10:26 Imagine going to a retail store, opening cake wallet to pay for the stuff xD 08:10:34 https://github.com/moneromooo-monero/monero-wallet-generator 08:10:36 Make this happen 08:10:59 @fungible.:matrix.org: I have zero monero in my wallet xD 08:11:25 > <@fungible.:matrix.org> its so hard to get businesses to start accepting that crypto thing tho, like, i been involved in my local communities here and there, like asking restaurants if they would accept that crypto thing but alot of the time is just, they dont see it as an alternative currency but just a way for cryptobros to become rich quick type thing, which is pretty sad tbh 08:11:25 It only get worser with crash 08:11:29 well start accepting it, u might get some x) 08:11:55 Bitcoin big crash make people avoid for long time 08:11:55 I prefer the money that just doesn't leave a record - Monero, or any other similar tech could have some flaws that eventually allow correlation. 08:12:02 When it happen in future 08:12:10 Yeah 08:12:37 Also heard that even some of "We accept BTC!" signs are through third-parties as I mentioned. 08:12:46 BlueyHealer: Monero is blockchain leave record for quantum to crack. It has to be quantum proof 08:12:46 i mean, isnt it kinda a thing already tho? 08:12:46 like, i can go to grocerie store and get food through cakewallet already 08:13:18 @boriskernov:matrix.org: PQC is being worked on/reaearched 08:13:58 @hooftly:matrix.org: I believe when I see it on Monero 08:14:41 Store now and decrypt later 08:15:03 fcmp++ already does have some quantum resistance features tho? not quantum proof but that's a start no? 08:16:09 https://github.com/monero-project/research-lab/issues/151 08:16:22 @fungible.:matrix.org: Forward secrecy not enough. Monero use cryptographic ecdsa with FCMP++. not quantum proof 08:16:49 If you show address before post quantum upgrade it can crack by quantum computer still 08:17:16 @fungible.:matrix.org: What store owo 08:17:54 @prime:heyadora.com: Switzerland 08:17:55 well not directly the store but giftcards accepted by the stores which can be bought directly within cakewallet 08:18:10 also yea, switerland, SPAR which is in 48 countries but only switzerland for now 08:18:36 How would I exchange it back to EUR xD > <@fungible.:matrix.org> well start accepting it, u might get some x) 08:18:51 retoswap 08:19:10 setup a PO box 08:19:28 @boriskernov:matrix.org: Everyone acknowkedges this. Its not like its being ignores like BTC is ignoring it 08:19:37 Retoswap with ATM code is the best 08:19:49 No meet and no delivery you can get EUR for XMR 08:19:51 oh right no nvm, u no likey cash lol 08:19:57 @boriskernov:matrix.org: Interesting owo they have stores that accept crypto? 08:19:59 can do bank transfers there tho 08:20:12 SPAR supermarkets yea 08:21:01 their integrations is through dfx.swiss which been having monero support 08:21:13 hooftly, yeah, but I mean not just that - flaws in general that are unknown at the time. 08:21:16 which is also integrated in cakewallet 08:22:23 @boriskernov:matrix.org: that was the best way in localmonero iirc, is that a thing in haveno tho? 08:23:29 Maybe I've not been looking closely enough, but it seems like ATM codes are just not a thing here. There are roundabout ways to transfer via ATM, but I don't think I've seen a place accept that on Localmonero. Not looked at Reto yet, but apparently not a lot of local offers. 08:24:13 I've also looked at Bestchange, there are even cash options... But all for ridiculously huge sums, not anywhere close to like $40. 08:24:23 tried looking for it as well, but i remember it was popular in latin american countries (ATM codes) 08:24:40 Does Retoswap work with bridges btw? 08:25:22 Interesting lol > <@fungible.:matrix.org> SPAR supermarkets yea 08:25:23 wdym by bridges? it routes traffic through teh tor network, not sure if that's what you're refering to 08:25:52 I mean Tor is blocked directly, so one would need a bridge for that. 08:26:20 I just know some software insists on using its own Tor process instead of system one, and that one is not guaranteed to support bridges. 08:26:32 does vpn work? if so you could have it nested that way 08:26:46 I mean if you don't have one. 08:26:58 but yea idk, maybe it does have bridges, i really have no idea, sowry 08:27:24 Also, often see it not recommended - is it just because it's not an extra protection, or there is some weird nuance if used like this? 08:27:34 i mean, it bundles the whole browser in the software so it should be able to imo 08:27:51 I guess one could use proxychains? Not all software is friends with that, though... 08:27:55 i literally never was able to get a proper answer on that tbh lol 08:28:01 vpn or no vpn with it, no idea lol 08:28:14 but there's a lot of debate around that 08:28:32 I was specifically thinking about situation where bridges are not desirable. Yeah, still figuring that out. 08:28:43 (not desirable or not working) 08:28:47 either way, it doesnt go out to exit nodes anyways, it stays on the hidden service layer thing 08:28:49 I'm currently at work, so hard to chat xD 08:29:29 feel free to stop by anytime when u got free time <3 08:29:35 People buy mostly drugs btw, I sell to 1k people a day and 60%+ is just alcohol/cigarettes :V 08:30:01 @fungible.:matrix.org: Because Tor honeypot many dont research Tor very lots of nodes from Germany and vulnerabilities https://github.com/Attacks-on-Tor/Attacks-on-Tor 08:30:02 @fungible.:matrix.org: Is there off-topic room? 08:30:17 Example of "own Tor but no bridges" would be Briar. 08:30:20 there is, havent checked it yet but #monero-offtopic is a thing yea 08:30:45 fungible, I know, it doesn't matter in my question. What matters is being able to connect to Tor at all. 08:30:49 Use i2p not Tor 08:31:07 ^ 08:31:08 I love I2P too! 08:31:38 VPN with tor is fine. the argument is that by using a VPN you are fingerprinting yourself and giving up trust to the VPN. personally I use a VPN + tor because this effectively hides tor use from my ISP. > Also, often see it not recommended - is it just because it's not an extra protection, or there is some weird nuance if used like this? 08:32:10 But from what I understand, attacks on Tor are not passive so it still fits for casual browsing I use it for. And Germany and others would not cooperate with my country's LE as well as they would with US and such anyway... 08:32:58 You are giving trust - but does that diminish Tor's value?.. The main reason is not trust and such, but the ability to connect to Tor at all. 08:33:00 @hooftly:matrix.org: Tor broken they dont need to contact ISP 08:33:43 I have not seen evidence that it is broken in a way a proxy would - with passive deanon. 08:33:54 Intelligence agencies rent nodes cheaply from EU companies and break network only 8,000 nodes for millions of users 08:34:01 Lolol 08:34:43 @hooftly:matrix.org: If use Tor look at circuit 08:34:44 Intelligence agencies use tor to communicate abroad safely its why it was invented by the navy in the first place 08:34:44 Germany will be 08:35:10 @hooftly:matrix.org: u did mention germany early which i been very sus about for few years now, is not just tor nodes they have a fuck ton of them but also bitcoin/ethereum nodes, imo their gov been in cahoots with the US for awhile now but that would be for :tinfoil: talks type shit lol 08:36:00 Everything is being recorded and tracked everywhere thats not fantasy. 08:36:10 right 08:36:11 @hooftly:matrix.org: https://github.com/Attacks-on-Tor/Attacks-on-Tor 08:36:14 But Germany isn't even friends with my government... 08:36:18 Is it actionable data probably not yet 08:36:42 Russia here banned Tor and intelligence agencies use other method to talk we dont know what... 08:36:55 Also from what I understand, for correlation attacks you would need time, and some exact identity (an account) to track. 08:37:07 boriskernov, banned yet still accessible. 08:37:10 Tor is a permissionless network, it's a miracle that it even works 08:37:10 Have to use bridge 08:37:21 ...which is super eas 08:37:22 Boris no one is saying it does not get attacked. But thst does not mean its inherently broken 08:37:45 @hooftly:matrix.org: I2p why use Tor? 08:37:58 hooftly, yeah, that's the impression I got after reading about all such attacks. 08:38:00 Not only attack the nodes are backdoored 08:38:13 I remind you again check your circuit 08:38:16 Opennet bridges are getting blackholed often 08:38:19 also I host a bridge both over yggdrasil and i2p 08:38:21 Germany or Netherlands 100% 08:38:37 i2p is not supposed to be used for browsing clearnet, even if it can. Also it is very slow. And not usable with all software. 08:38:45 + Store and decrypt 08:38:48 gan, nice 08:38:51 No they arent lol 08:39:06 Show me code that shows its backdoored 08:39:10 @hooftly:matrix.org: Tor have pretty weak cryptography for its directories 08:39:28 @hooftly:matrix.org: I said nodes 08:39:39