03:03:56 Is there a way to purchase Monero without having to give KYC? Seems like everywhere I go, every market and exchange I go to to buy Monero requires too much KYC. I would prefer an app on my phone if possible. I've seen a few exchanges that require you to download their app on your computer, but is there anything that's meant for a phone running Graphene OS. 03:05:04 Also, if I were to start mining it, would that require any KYC to mine the coins and stack them that way? 03:08:08 @matric3:matrix.org: Haveno and an atomic swap provider would probably be your best bet. No idea about running it on a phone though. 03:08:09 @matric3:matrix.org: Mining doesn't require KYC, as there is no customer. 03:08:53 Exchanging them for something else might result in being met with a lot of KYC tape though, but there's ways around that if you're clever. 03:11:13 Great! Thank you! I will have a look at haveno 03:11:58 #haveno.exchange:monero.social www.retoswap.com 03:14:26 Yeah, it's just like all the other, no KYC exchanges I've found, haveno requires either Windows, Linux, or Mac to install. I'm looking for something to install in Graphene OS. Does anybody have any ideas? Are there any atomic swap apps available in Graphene OS? 03:15:08 https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-app/releases 03:15:09 for graphene 03:24:16 Thank you banevading! I will try it out 03:33:57 you ahould technically be able to run atomic swaps on mobile, but not available as an app 03:36:59 Haveno is p2p swaps, not atomic. But iirc, that app also runs haveno locally in the terminal. 03:36:59 theres a remote node version here 03:36:59 https://github.com/atsamd21/Haveno-remote-node 03:43:26 see how they like you plowsof > banevading:matrix.org 03:43:36 "30 day ban for kitty, (aka anyone who says "smh" and "shits" and spams public rooms with drivel like theyre having a private conversation with their bud)" 03:43:50 still does drive by fun 03:56:50 These llm trash prs are on fire today 04:06:21 where? 04:10:42 ah, I see a couple that just ... add random comments and rewrite code 04:11:07 and removes license headers, surely this is now expected for all AI generation 04:11:39 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/10225/files 04:11:40 > * * Optimizations by "The World's Smartest Coder": 04:13:08 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/pull/10224/files 04:13:10 > # ... (License header kept intact) ... 04:13:12 (it was not kept intact) 04:53:27 DataHoarder: "world's smartest coder 04:53:33 uses AI 04:53:36 we are cooked 05:44:38 <321bob321> this one > also supports txkey + multiple addresses https://blocks.p2pool.observer/tx/834a724fed3522d81c132e5c8d18762b8762c2a48d7ad54f5d99eb534138ff51?txkey=6a996b10fbe7dd2d175f329828e8b5fb90e1219cb45dc5d47ac2cb96e5962f0e&address=4AJZZv3rTYzJXT8hUbbyrzdXcTCDt3bWbjk9sDfYSynjM4rUYhUu6NS24psAtzmBYEgzzuXq8xFKTFCpC1AyMdZkTBxmhvj&address=43jMNkyW3jPGqLKQakz4Bn4bF81 05:46:11 all hail monero chan 05:46:21 <321bob321> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/vxoythyQDnMsheGJmPjTKYYv.png (cloudflare.png) 12:14:52 goddamn ram costing as much as cpus these dayus 12:18:52 from where can I buy some monero with fiat? why has it gotten so hard 12:21:07 laris: hard bc monero works so its restricted. depending where you are direct with fiat would be difficult. something like retoswap or xmrbazaar may allow you p2p w fiat. Alternatively use any CEX to get a crypto e.g. LTC and swap for XMR somewhere like trocador.app 12:25:00 thanks 12:32:33 Thanks 321bob321 now that's fucked and thy are breaking caching 13:06:38 guardarian was nice 13:31:00 it's called RUM Preferences, great 13:31:23 https://irc.gammaspectra.live/48958080262b6db2/image.png 16:05:06 https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/1p5kqzp/introducing_skylight_wallet_a_modern_monero/ 16:57:11 Laris: last time I tried, kraken was working for buying monero with fiat 17:16:08 Not in every country, though? 17:16:57 yeah 17:17:05 for example, kraken in the EU no longer lists monero 17:17:12 due to.. *cough cough* 17:17:16 CERTAIN regulations 17:18:03 it is crazy they unlist it when you think that it is the only crypto that can actually act as a **currency** 17:23:11 ...or a mixer for other cryptos, for when it isn't accepted. Which is sadly too common. 17:25:53 TBH I didn't remember whether it was the EU or the US that unlisted it - I just remember it happening and being a big deal. 17:31:42 The EU doesn't have XMR for fiat in any CEX I checked (which is Coinbase, KuCoin (only one I could buy from before they stopped serving my country), Kraken) 17:33:21 Once you have one crypto, though, others are not a problem at all. I'd be more concerned about merchants and the swappers themselves when it comes to delistings. 17:34:00 I don't really know which exactly the good automatic swappers are, but from what I've read, they're very accessible. 17:40:06 BlueyHealer: it's the EU 17:40:26 it's apart of their plan to completely ban monero (and other privacy coins) by 2027 17:58:39 Cindy: You're reading the regulations incorrectly, only regulated exchanges are concerned by the prohibition of privacy coins, individuals are free to use them as they see fit 18:00:24 Prohibiting its use by individuals seems unfeasible anyway. 18:01:12 However, I did hear they're also planning to ban merchants from accepting anonymous currencies without KYC. 18:01:25 ^ 18:13:14 Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project now accepts Monero (XMR): 18:13:14 https://www.fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate/ 18:13:49 great, now we just need to convince wikipedia to accept monero (again) 18:14:21 NOICE 18:21:20 Cool. 18:25:20 i cant see xmr @ gnu project 18:25:47 Check, Bitcoin or Litecoin 18:26:10 "Other ways to give" 18:26:35 there is no checkbox for that :P 18:26:53 go email them 18:27:12 "About the FSF | Renew an existing membership | Other ways to give" 18:28:58 ah, thx 18:29:30 https://www.fsf.org/about/ways-to-donate/ 18:29:40 This address is valid until December 2026. 18:29:47 XMR Ceo only has contract till then 18:29:48 bad deal 18:29:49 :P 18:30:41 By donating your frequent-flyer miles to the FSF 18:30:42 hahaha 18:30:55 thats the funniest "ways to donate" page i've ever seen :D 18:31:49 By donating your car to the FSF. 18:32:42 Guys I need 100 monero 18:35:17 why are there more trolls on matrix than IRC 18:37:06 Don't you need an email to register on IRC with Libera? 18:37:24 literally anyone can join this channel without registering 18:37:27 Meaning you need an email to join monero rooms with IRC. While on Matrix it depend of the HS... 18:37:28 it's not +r or +R 18:37:31 no registration needed 18:37:46 you WOULD need an account if this channel were +r/+R 18:38:07 Oh, No registration needed, I was sure it needed it (maybe it was for spam control back >1 years ago 18:38:21 Or it was for offtopic 18:38:22 some channels have +r/+R on 18:38:38 which will require you to be logged-in to either talk or even join the channel 18:38:45 and they can turn it off at anytime 18:39:51 So to be able to access all monero rooms on IRC you need to be logged-in (email required), while for matrix you can find an home server that don't ask 18:40:25 no 18:40:47 none of the monero rooms are +r/+R 18:41:04 as of right now 18:41:11 Because they want to use tor and dont have time for libera shenanigans, also because they arent boomers and have never heard of irc > why are there more trolls on matrix than IRC 18:41:14 ok, good to know. 18:41:14 So my rememberance of it is probably outdated lol 18:42:18 ofrnxmr: most of what libera does in that depertment is due to spam control 18:42:38 not only do they allow tor usage if you have an account (and use public key auth) 18:42:44 they also ban most VPNs/proxies 18:42:56 but not mullvad or any of the paid ones 18:45:39 they intentionally put in some holes because they knew most trolls would go for the easy (& free) way 18:45:58 and very little would actually go out of their way to register an account, or pay for mullvad to troll people on libera 18:47:37 mullvad is really cheap though, so people that really want to troll are just a few bucks away from trolling 18:48:09 but very rarely do they actually take that path 18:48:12 One can just get a ceap VPS with a lot of IPV6 and rotate 18:48:34 s/ceap/cheap/g 18:48:34 ravfx: libera ops can block an entire range or subnet 18:48:47 even residential proxies, you can get 1 GB of data for less than $5, imagine how long does that last on an IRC... 18:49:40 now, this isn't to say, there AREN'T trolls that are so dedicated that they are willing to pay the price for it 18:49:49 but those kinds of trolls are like.. once in a blue moon 18:50:06 We should allow people to pay to get out of jail 18:50:31 they do their crap for a few minutes 18:50:34 and then they never do it again 18:50:39 Time solves nothing 18:52:30 ofrnxmr: we should have people mine a share in p2pool mini 18:52:35 to get access to the room 18:52:42 thats like 1 cent 18:52:50 Useless 18:52:54 A good night of sleep is (usually) a good way to ponder, so imagine 1825 nights to ponder 18:52:58 mine 1 entire block for unban 18:53:10 but it could work as a PoW challenge lol 18:53:14 @shitpost1337:matrix.org: 🤣. Thats cruel and unusual punishment 18:53:21 one block is too much 18:54:05 Can rent some hashrate 18:54:18 that's super dumb 18:54:31 expensive yeah 18:54:48 so more money than if you mined yourself 18:55:01 0.01xmr for unban AFTER time served -> 0.1xmr for early unban (min 24hrs) -> 1xmr if you get banned again within 30days 18:55:21 considering matrix, they'll just make a new account on another homeserver 18:55:27 than pay 0.01 xmr 18:55:36 19:38:07 <+br-m> Oh, No registration needed, I was sure it needed it (maybe it was for spam control back >1 years ago 18:55:36 afaik it has been enabled when spam becomes an issue. but usually it's IRC-wide spam, not monero specific 18:55:49 and then get banned "asap" 18:55:55 And jumps to 0.1xmr 18:55:58 asap.. LOOOOL 18:56:03 more like 18:56:10 I used quotes for a reason 18:56:21 just have federated accounts pass via a containment aging process 18:56:45 that way they need to age accounts and it's not wack-a-mole for 4h until they bore themselves 18:56:52 ban the chain, existing users unaffected 18:56:57 DataHoarder: how do you determine the age of the accounts 18:57:06 monero.social knows when they tried to join 18:57:12 theys just farm accounts > just have federated accounts pass via a containment aging process 18:57:17 ^ 18:57:18 it's federation 18:57:28 they'll just put sleeper agent lurkers in the room 18:57:28 yes, they will farm them, but then those are stopped way easier ahead of time 18:57:34 for a month 18:57:48 like they already do that, but those usually get dealt with via the original instances 18:58:05 I probably have 10-15 aged accounts that im willing to sell to the highest bidder @ocean:nope.chat /s 18:58:07 it cleans up drive-by and requires them do actual effort :P 18:58:33 and that effort can disappear with "ok all aged accounts have timers reset" when we have issues 18:58:38 (ocean tagged bcuz they accused me of having a bunch of alts) 18:58:38 all recently* 18:58:53 this is doable with policy servers, afaik 18:59:26 i wonder why monero uses matrix 18:59:55 "Decentralization" I think 19:00:19 matrix is so horribly designed and overengineered 19:00:27 yeah quotes are important there 19:00:50 it is terrible in term of design, but is there alternatives? 19:00:52 Cindy: Because its easier to sign up "privately" 19:00:53 ^ and VC funded mainly, and removes support for non-$ parts 19:00:57 i had to ask mods in 2 different rooms to kick me and invite me back 19:00:59 Monero doesnt uae matrix, it uses irc 19:01:05 TWICE, this month 19:01:07 why not run our own IRC servers :) 19:01:10 None of the matrix rooms are adminmed by core 19:01:17 It's a certainly trade-off, DHT-based and truly decentralized chats are too slow for the average > i wonder why monero uses matrix 19:01:18 Core runs the irc namespace 19:01:18 jah: for real, XMPP 19:01:35 XMPP has better design for rooms than matrix 19:01:43 Cindy: true, and sadly so much underated 19:02:03 sync errors don't exist in XMPP rooms, which means you don't have to ask mods to kick you and invite you back 19:02:07 once in a week 19:02:11 Example: why do i use matrix instead of irc? Because im on mobile 19:02:24 Cindy: You're comparing a fox with an elephant 19:02:27 Using irc from mobile is essentially an effort in futility 19:02:36 XMPP is for the most part is stateless, while Matrix have state-based 19:02:42 ofrnxmr: I disagree, if you have a bouncer it is fine to use on mobile 19:02:46 not if we run our own servers, ofrnxmr 19:02:47 doesn't that make it better?, 19:02:50 is state-based* 19:02:56 then that can have the history and fast join exts enabled 19:02:58 it's stateless for a reason, makes for less sync errors 19:03:00 the-lounge lets you install it as an app, which is just a full screen browser 19:03:04 ofrnxmr: but you have a point, that requiere complex setup 19:03:04 meaning you lose nothing even when reconnecting 19:03:12 whenever there's a state-based design, it's centralized under one serve 19:03:18 for non-bouncer users 19:03:19 liek how rooms are centralized under their own MUC server 19:03:28 ah yes, 'run your own server' in the small print lol 19:03:42 Cindy: as you can see, it's not really true 19:03:46 I keep hope that one day, matrix design will be improved and implementation will be mature... but oh well, this is taking time 19:04:02 well, matrix is also "run your own server" in the small print 19:04:29 but it's surely a pattern that we see with USENet, Email and so on 19:04:52 Contextually Jabber wasn't too different back in the day 19:05:15 XMPP was carefully designed, battle-tested, and standardized. matrix is just VC-funded thrown together webslop 19:05:20 when it was sucking off Google and WhatsApp 19:05:24 I do run my own matrix homeserver, and have an IRC bridge on it for connecting to IRC channels. 19:05:29 which is why you see more chat services building on top of XMPP 19:05:52 AlbertLarsan68: how much disk space does your homeserver requiere? 19:06:11 Cindy: not really true, I rarely see XMPP being used for anything new 19:06:12 gan: not just google and whatsapp, also video games and nintendo switch notification service 19:06:28 a lot of things behind the scenes use XMPP, well specifically ejabberd 19:06:31 because it's pretty scalable 19:06:38 Cindy: Google was the biggest Jabber provider 19:06:59 a lot of things still use XMPP in the background 19:07:08 just because you don't see it, doesn't mean it's not used 19:07:37 it'd just end up in the simllar way as email did with Gmail 19:07:51 it's literally the best messaging protocol for multiple users/devices, for various usecases 19:08:15 even stuff that aren't just chat, just IoT devices communicating with each other 19:08:18 Cindy: again, it's openly not used, since text-oriented protocols by their nature is a waste of resources 19:08:30 jah: 11 GB of database, with a whole bunch of bridges to a lot of services (and also non-matrix data in there). About 8 GB of (local) media 19:08:31 lol 19:08:37 it's commonly some combination of protobuf and so on 19:08:40 AlbertLarsan68: no way, 11 GB? 19:08:46 yeah that is insane 19:08:59 my prosody installation barely gone over a few megabytes 19:09:05 Average Synapse usage 🧌 19:09:09 is this what matrix operators have to deal with 19:09:10 Matrix.org's is some many TBs 19:09:17 also you could vacuum your database 19:09:35 xmr.mx pruned data older than 30days 19:09:42 Prunes 19:09:44 Cindy: No, Synapse isn't the only server implementation 19:09:54 well I'm sure 11GB is with pruned data older than 30days 19:10:02 in my opinion, matrix is garbage 19:10:11 and retention policies are also a thing 19:10:28 still, we are talking 11GB with retention policies in place, very likely 19:10:29 Cindy: anything BUT synapse for small servers, synapse is monster 19:10:36 and now the rewrite is sold for $$$ enterprise 19:10:39 and not in the open 19:10:42 I tried running synapse, and tuning all the things you mentioned, it was still terrible 19:10:43 Cindy: Any federation-based protocol is, XMPP isn't that better 19:10:55 maybe that lighter rust server is better, but I feel like it's fundamental to the design 19:11:06 like you keep media for the other federations in your cache 19:11:15 Nah, 11 GB is usage since a few month, with *many* channels being really active but non-federated (Discord bridges, etc) 19:11:22 Personally, I use continuwuity 19:11:29 also i like how XSF stopped themselves from hosting the *official* XMPP server 19:11:29 With Synapse 19:11:36 and instead encouraged people to host their own 19:11:43 it stopped server monopoly...... unlike what exists in matrix 19:11:47 jah: that's normal if you don't want for your IP to be grabbed 19:11:53 gan: continuwuity, that is the fork of the previous uwu until maintainer left right? 19:11:56 and remote media could be purged too 19:12:00 that's what I ran for bridge testing :D 19:12:05 painless tbh 19:12:09 DataHoarder: yup 19:12:16 gan: I would like if I could **not** bridge media at all 19:12:36 CP spammers take advantage of the fact that all matrix servers have to bridge media 19:12:50 their illegal material literally spreads to other servers without consent 19:12:52 anyway, I hear you, maybe I should give an other try, but last time, just joining an active channel (like the synapse one), was totally flooding my storage 19:13:32 yeah I would not be surprised if AlbertLarsan68's hardware have some CSAM without knowing it 19:13:47 19:13:54 Cindy: not illegal per Section 230, same goes for majority of European countries 19:14:09 you should see how bad git is 19:14:17 Nah, I clean the remote storage a bunch, and I am the only user of my homeserver 19:14:28 gan: nobody wants to filter through tons of illegal material in their hard drive 19:14:36 or even try to come up with an excuse for why it's there 19:14:45 nobody wants the liability 19:15:01 "your honor, i don't know how it got there" 19:15:02 Cindy: You don't have to? old media could be purged 19:15:09 Cindy: then don't run a server 19:15:12 Meanwhile, someone running w btc node somewhere is storing cp 19:15:25 It's a common issues that exists on all internet services 19:15:34 not really, related to matrix at all 19:15:44 imagine the feds upload a CP in one of the rooms you're in 19:15:46 to plant evidence 19:15:59 that's schizotalk at this point 19:16:05 Thinking to create a game how to use monero . Any ideas ? 19:16:11 and no, that's entrapment then 19:16:23 gan: you're thinking in first-world basis 19:16:37 entrapment is handled in court case 19:16:43 third-world authorities will not care 19:16:49 not for getting the initial hit on you 19:16:56 Cindy: I don't live in first world 19:17:03 You could store CSAM in MAM on XMPP, and? 19:17:05 does it matter 19:17:11 I'd say not 19:17:12 in XMPP, it's just a link 19:17:17 and MAM histories can be tombstoned 19:17:30 the material does not spread to others 19:17:31 just use yEnc a-la usenet https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YEnc 19:17:38 it remains in the server that the user uploaded to 19:17:39 A vacuum made the DB take only 9.5 GB 19:18:48