00:07:56 <321bob321> Is that fast Japanese beef ? 00:58:44 @spvce:spvcer3ii.space: Used it today for 25k usd 00:58:53 Works great. Literally took 2 min 00:59:08 Bit tricky to figure out 01:30:36 it's not perhaps a scam 01:30:43 it is a scam 01:31:47 So... this is what they were talking about. 01:31:49 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/spvcer3ii.space/sjhBkINJVKpbhaLFKwEpQlVC.png (Screenshot_20251223_013130.png) 01:31:53 Seems very scam-like to me. 01:31:58 Not sure, don't care. 02:13:10 Lol 02:14:41 👁 08:51:54 @spvce:spvcer3ii.space: It’s a scam. They’re just using multiple accounts to try and s’e trust. 08:55:53 It works 08:56:40 "it works" doesn't mean it's not a scam lol 08:56:52 specially when moving monero to someone else that holds the keys 08:57:04 it's a bridge. and on the other side of the bridge, you have no monero 08:57:48 as shared. https://blog.can.ac/2025/12/20/reverse-engineering-hyperliquid/ 08:57:50 > Bridge withdrawals can be censored forever: no timeout, no escape hatch 08:57:57 (that is, if the bridge itself doesn't rug first) 08:58:20 it may keep working till it doesn't. 08:59:36 @deepzy99:matrix.org: dumbest argument ever 08:59:36 especially in the field of crypto 08:59:36 where we want thing to not just work 08:59:36 but also work trustlessly 10:20:19 @moneroni:matrix.org: he might be part of the scam.. 10:26:24 <321bob321> Probably 11:51:51 DataHoarder: why rug within the protocol 11:52:01 you can rug within the underlying monero supply stealthly 11:52:16 yes. just pointing out all the layers that is possible 11:52:17 sure, people might notice when their withdrawals end with an error 11:52:18 09:57:57 (that is, if the bridge itself doesn't rug first) 11:52:23 ^ this is the underlying supply 11:52:26 ah 11:52:35 the ones that actually hold and own your coins 11:52:42 or not your :) 11:53:04 there will be no crypto investigator to figure out where the money went :P 11:53:14 if they went the "rugpull the underlying supply" route 11:53:50 Anyone use OpenMonero.com? Seems more trustworthy compared to Haveno(Retoswap) 11:55:37 haveno is based off of bisq 11:56:51 also OpenMonero is more centralized than haveno is 11:57:05 i think chat stuff goes P2P, rather than through the servers 11:58:45 What about in regards to cash in-person trades? 11:58:49 How's the experience? 11:59:13 in both cases, it depends on the person 12:02:27 Oopnmonreo had their wallets drained that one time 12:08:45 Hmmm, there doesn't seem to be any proven replacements 12:10:19 plowsof: was this prior to implementing non-custodial wallets? 12:14:51 According to archive.org, yes 12:22:53 What is a custodial wallet? 12:24:04 I mean what do they define as non custodial? 12:25:26 OM hold zero user funds now? How are they scraping fees? 12:27:57 XMR to the moon 🚀 12:28:23 Reto could drain most (all?) of the order book at any time rho 12:34:13 plowsof: The taker is sent the funds after scraping fees. Minimizing the risk of a rug pull 12:34:17 Maker is a different story 13:03:46 yeah Maker has to park everything in someone elses wallet? taker ofc doesnt have to park anything so no medal for that 13:42:30 plowsof: No, i think its just deposits 13:44:00 When the offer is opened, maker has to deposit the deposit. After trade is taken, they have to deposit the remainder of the offer amoint. When the wallet was swept, it was for 100% of user deposits, not full offer amounts 14:14:27 😄 15:53:39 Reto some old dirty shit ux with abhorrent spreads 15:54:15 Tried this cow shit worked smooth. Why everyone on here gets all gay anytime something good for monero come out 15:54:28 Same guys questioning if its a rug have .4 xmr 16:29:39 @deepzy99:matrix.org: people still use gay as an insult in 2025? 16:29:47 grow up 🍼 🍼 16:34:35 I guess someone could use it as a compliment 17:05:37 what happens when its shut down by regulators because hes running a custodial bridge while calling it trustless? I will tell you. Your XMR gets confiscated. dumb 17:11:31 Regulators? Its a defi protocol 17:12:50 No its not. Hyperliquid is centealized and shown via IDA pro and the bridge is custodial that is not Defi 17:12:56 taxes? but it's crypted! 17:13:14 Clearly youre retarded. And all of these hypothetical you speak off dont apply as its a 30 second swap 17:13:22 defi, with centralized bridges (cause Monero explicitly does not support this) 17:13:35 Hyperliquid is not decentralized. If you have used it once you would know. 17:13:41 it's not a swap, when the funds literally are not xmr 17:14:01 Have you used it? 17:14:04 @deepzy99:matrix.org: If you understoof code you would realize it is 17:14:26 @hooftly:matrix.org: Any evm bridge can access your hyperliquid funds 17:14:53 So use it first before talking. 17:14:55 I implement fucking code so yes, I know how the underlying works 17:15:00 That does not make it decenrralized when 8 validators hold unilateral control 17:15:01 ^ maybe it's time for plowsof 17:15:04 Its theater 17:15:12 The same losers saying this will still shill trocador 17:15:21 Im not lol 17:15:26 "use it first before talking" again signs of someone sent here to shill it 17:15:39 right so dumb 17:15:44 How? 17:15:44 Hurr durr use it 17:15:46 I used it 17:15:48 It works 17:15:53 Very simple 17:15:54 it's irrelevant, you can criticize the claims directly given it's in the open lol 17:15:58 09:56:40 "it works" doesn't mean it's not a scam lol 17:15:58 And fast n low fee 17:15:59 09:58:17 it may keep working till it doesn't. 17:16:05 Yes cause its centralized garbage 17:16:05 09:56:51 specially when moving monero to someone else that holds the keys 17:16:05 09:57:04 it's a bridge. and on the other side of the bridge, you have no monero 17:16:10 So what exactly u crying about i dont understand 17:16:31 alright plowsof yeah seems they are full out now :) 17:16:34 Like I said. Same monero community has sites giving info to law enforcement 17:16:37 Its a custodial bridge full stop 17:16:38 Will shill them 17:16:41 Freeze funds 17:16:58 And everyone smiles 17:16:59 is it a custodial bridge, yes or no? 17:16:59 Im not shilling any CEX or aggregator 17:17:05 monero does not support non-custodial bridges. that answers the question 17:17:23 so, not your keys, not your coins. 17:17:24 DataHoarder: Yes. Is it a scam? 17:17:36 It is not Monero, then 17:17:37 ban for libera policy or not disclosing involvement with project? 17:17:48 so claiming it's Monero is the scam 17:17:56 @deepzy99:matrix.org: Does not matter if it can be trivially regulated against 17:18:07 You are ignoring a whole attack vector 17:18:14 Its an off ramp. Which we dont have many solid choices 17:18:16 you are asking users that don't know to use a product that can get them fucked over 17:18:26 How is it an off ramp 17:18:30 Its not 17:18:31 because they don't understand it 17:18:53 Can swap usdt or usdc instantly at low fees 17:18:56 @plowsof:matrix.org: coming to market their bridge :) 17:19:09 passing it off as review I guess 17:19:23 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: do nothing has changed since the draining? same setup. still closed source, possibly vulnerable. we dont know. 17:19:37 but yeah. the "if you haven't tried it don't talk" is so 100% the shit I see on Qubic discord 17:19:51 the hyperturbodiscord gambler 17:19:56 Not marketing shit. Just if ur gonna slander things out of nowhere 17:20:10 Lets start with swap services and sites that pass info to police 17:20:12 not out of nowhere. we literally posted the reasons why. 17:20:21 no one slandering nothing I said was incorrect 17:20:26 and it's always slandered if it's custodial. same for CEX 17:20:33 Lets start with reto using e transfer getting idiots to dox themsleves 17:20:49 is it non-custodial? yeah you are jumping "tokens" to a chain, and the bridge holds Monero. 17:20:54 I dont support that etiher may be a hottake but it is what it is 17:21:10 @datahoarder: Yes thats fine. Im jus saying for monero adoption to grow we need more avenues 17:21:20 As much as u may think we dont. 17:21:32 And reto sucks. Serai is never coming out 17:21:34 these more avenues also suggest "plain" transactions for monero adoption 🤣 17:21:41 @deepzy99:matrix.org: Of course we do but it needs to be the right venues 17:21:53 shit like this https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/10173 17:22:12 Lmao 17:22:41 The concept was cool. Of the hypercow 17:23:23 At this point if you want to buy xmr without getting fucked on the spreads. Its a bit hard 17:24:21 You are not getting it. It doesnt matter if it works great for years if it can be trivially regulated against. There is one person who needs to get got and it dies 17:25:00 I understand the concept 17:26:20 Dont expect the political landscape to stay the same if the US gvmt changes hands they will go after Hyperliquid and the likes hard. Crypto companies are banking on getting to big to fail but have a limited window to get there 17:26:47 Well this administration isnt really doing shit for privacy anyways 17:46:49 It is! ICE goons can now cover their faces. 17:49:43 Privacy for them and their supporters. Us little people are supposed to have everything about out lives out in public and government accessible at all times 17:56:59 guys 17:57:10 what the fuck is the epidemic of people coming here to shill their obvious scam 18:00:33 you couldn't have made it any more obvious if you put giant billboards that point to it and say "SCAM!" 18:02:13 ^ they were already banned as of their last message 18:02:37 it's not just them 18:02:57 it's other matrix users that i've seen, who ask questions about this specific wrapped token 18:03:00 yep 18:03:08 cause it works on other projects 18:03:13 they go on telegram and such 18:03:17 and i don't know how they could have possibly found out about it, considering regardless how much i try to search it up 18:03:25 i find NOTHING about it 18:03:29 the specific way they write or disregard arguments is classic 18:03:34 "don't talk if you aren't using it" 18:03:35 :) 18:03:42 19:03:25 i find NOTHING about it 18:04:03 it appears on first results page when you look up the name itself 18:04:08 also some old monero people might have advertised it on their twitter... 18:04:22 should we just ban discussion of any XMR wrapped token 18:04:49 I mean, it's fairly common to advertise stuff by pretending that one's stumbled upon it randomly > you couldn't have made it any more obvious if you put giant billboards that point to it and say "SCAM!" 18:04:55 isnt a wrapped token pretty much how a dex with smart contracts works? 18:04:59 E.g., Silkroad 18:05:19 What about xmr that's been wrapped as a giveable Xmas gift? 18:05:36 Xmrs, even. 18:05:41 snake: most wrapped tokens i've seen are (directly or indirectly) centralized 18:05:44 other than serai 18:05:54 oh ok idk 18:05:59 someone has to hold the underlying supply 18:06:04 that backs up the wrapped token 18:06:52 these wrapped tokens have no bonds, no accountability 18:06:57 19:04:55 isnt a wrapped token pretty much how a dex with smart contracts works? 18:06:59 ^ but usually some that support scripting 18:07:01 monero doesn't 18:07:06 therefore, nothing is stopping the people behind them from rugpulling 18:07:08 so you can't build one properly 18:07:12 Hi guys im ZilPay Wallet CM, with who can i talk, we want to add Monero network to us wallet 18:07:19 ah i see 18:07:36 wormzilpay: here or #monero-devs 18:07:54 Cindy: thank you mate 18:08:39 DataHoarder: i think monero not supporting scripting is a great move 18:08:44 less of an attack vector 18:10:13 WDYM by "support scripting"? 18:10:34 not having a bytecode machine? 18:10:43 for interpreting a script that may embed.. oh whatever 18:11:23 if i say more, i might look like a dumbass 18:13:00 basically. there's only outputs that pay a key 18:13:07 not a "script" or a "hash to script" 18:13:29 which would later be ran and can support arbitrary ops 18:13:31 funnily the output types are there Cindy 18:13:37 just never implemented for handling lol 18:13:48 I complained about this a week ago or so 18:13:58 we already have a bytecode machine in monero 18:14:00 why add another :P 18:15:53 I think that Tari is a good compromise in context of having scriptability 18:20:33 i like it when monero gets either scammers or people who want to turn it into another zcash 18:20:41 i'm referring to THAT github issue 18:22:17 they also want it for xyz which monero already offers a way to prove lol 18:23:57 they just want an excuse to strip monero down 18:27:40 another one to throw into the MEV pile 18:44:13 who tf cares about governments 18:44:25 remember when they scoffed at bitcoin and thought it was a toy project 18:44:38 now everyone wants to "regulate" 18:46:55 and every cryptocurrency wants to bend over and let the govs fuck them because they're scared of their price going down from regulatory pressure on CEXs 18:47:18 monero should not care :P 18:50:21 Bitcoin supports scripting ?? > DataHoarder: i think monero not supporting scripting is a great move 18:50:44 yeah? it's how all their stuff is implemented 18:50:53 https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Script 18:52:40 Lots of people come to these conferences and start to promoting some defi. Literally kids call themselves ceo and founders. Who is behind them and how they make money if it’s defi > that backs up the wrapped token 18:54:26 milas900: it's the same thing repeating with AI now :P 18:54:45 people who literally don't understand shit about neural networks, are trying to make AI startups that are just ChatGPT wrappers 18:54:51 and calling themselves CEOs 18:56:56 "I used serviceX to swap a large amount of money - you should use it too" -> unfortunately, people do actually go on the internet and tell lies - anything other than "this is a new service, please do your own research" in this day and age is irresponsible. on that same vein - there where shills in telegram saying they used moleswap, and posting 18:56:56 their transaction id's - when the back end was dumped - you could see the transaction (happened to be a solana one) and it was for like 1$ and they doxd their receive address 18:57:43 and this person was claiming to swap $$$$$ with the service when posting the screenshot of the transaction 😆 18:58:03 people should practice precaution when dealing with services they don't know shit about 18:59:14 i like it when services actually bond money to prove that they're serious 18:59:24 rather than just another scammer's paradise 20:30:33 If we want an wrapped XMR token, and we don't, but if we did, we would insist on open-source code, proof of reserves, enough decentralization to survive regulation, at least some effort to make rugpulling unlikely or impossible, and as much transparency as possible. Hyperliquid does none of that. 20:31:52 Far from it, Hyperliquid has evidence of there being backdoors, and there is absolutely nothing stopping a rugpull. 20:36:16 Over and over, the Monero calls out people attempting scams. People point out the exact ways that things can be scams, and the scammers do everything but address the criticism. Deflect, ignore, astroturf. Because they can't, it would stop the scam from working if they actually removed the scammy stuff. 20:37:48 If you can't address the criticism that makes your thing look like a scam, then that means it's a scam. Plain and simple. 20:39:22 scammers deflect criticism by saying the alternatives suck 20:39:37 like deepzy99 did, calling other swap services shit 20:42:35 I will be honest, Retoswap does have a well-known weakness: arbitrators can rugpull the entire orderbook. It will be very obvious if/when they do so (unlike other rugpulls). The original Bisq handled this problem by having arbitrators stake collateral, but Haveno removed the DAO when it forked from Bisq so it doesn't have that protection. 20:43:30 Depending on your threat model, that might be acceptable. After all, if you were using a DEX before, you were putting even more trust in a third party then you are with Retroswap. 20:46:02 A DEX can rugpull and still accept deposits, after all. 20:48:33 But scammers don'tt even point that out. No consideration at all of actual attacks that could have been made. 20:52:58 these wrapped XMR tokens are just a fishing net for the dumb people 20:53:49 trying to fish out gullible people and take their XMR, quite a dumb move 20:58:19 How popular is Retoswap around the users here? 20:58:19 Their website, and the project as a whole, don't exactly inspire confidence 20:59:29 It's still new, but there are a lot of users already. 20:59:57 If you want to on-ramp from fiat to Monero without KYC, it is currently your best option. 21:00:24 Especially since, as a Monero buyter, the weakness I mentioned above won't even apply to you. Only makers can get rugged. 21:00:28 buyer* 21:12:06 "A cex*" right? > <@torir:matrix.org> Depending on your threat model, that might be acceptable. After all, if you were using a DEX before, you were putting even more trust in a third party then you are with Retroswap. 21:12:20 Whoops, yes, a CEX. 21:28:44 SupportXMR getting quite high up there on short term hashrate https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/1pu3bdd/almost_51/ 21:28:48 last week still 40% https://blocks.p2pool.observer/pools 21:29:06 HV getting hit by DDoS did not help 21:29:12 oh noooo 21:29:21 we're gona have a fucking.. pubiccc 21:29:24 pubic hairs 21:30:23 https://irc.gammaspectra.live/fe9c8967071d5540/image.png 21:30:51 sorry for those messages 21:40:49 @torir:matrix.org: Ah interesting 21:41:03 On-ramp? > <@torir:matrix.org> If you want to on-ramp from fiat to Monero without KYC, it is currently your best option. 21:41:22 on-ramp is the term meaning "way to convert fiat to cryptocurrency" 21:42:01 Once you get a cryptocurrency (any cryptocurrency), it is usually very easy to convert from one crypto to another. Getting from fiat to crypto is the hard part, which is why you need an on-ramp. 21:45:30 Can we attack it somehow. Or what can we do about it? > SupportXMR getting quite high up there on short term hashrate https://www.reddit.com/r/MoneroMining/comments/1pu3bdd/almost_51/ 21:45:55 attack what 21:45:58 why 21:46:04 they are not bad guys 21:46:20 this is the fault of > 22:45:42 as usual, influx of new people new to mining -> look at top pool -> mine there 21:46:47 let's not try to kill ourselves :P 21:47:09 by uhh.. destroying a pool that newcomers happen to use because it was the most popular one 21:47:25 they are not attempting anything either nor even marketing that 21:47:45 HV got attacked at the same time which caused that hashrate to also move elsewhere 21:49:22