02:14:04 HI everyone, I am searching for a visual tutorial to create my own Monero miner, do you have any information to share? 02:20:06 WTB 4,350 Tari (XTM) for 21.92mXMR (0.02192 XMR) 02:25:24 @j_0t:matrix.org: I would love to help you out. There are some great pc build guides out there. I haven't watched this dudes content, but this video seems to be adequate after a skim. However, how you approach software is up to you. I have Arch usbs with the software my miners need preloaded. 02:25:24 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KfCfJxE8BE&t=1284 02:26:20 @shortwavesurfer2009: This may just be me loudly displaying my ignorance, but what does this mean? 02:27:31 @thelastmonero:matrix.org: Tari is a cryptocurrency that has merged mine with Monero. It will have scripting and smart contracts similar to Ethereum. 02:28:16 @shortwavesurfer2009: Thank you very much for explaining! 02:29:09 @thelastmonero:matrix.org: Thank you, let me check this tutorial, my plan is to create a support ecosystem to add more independence to the miner, I thought on add mesh networks to avoid internet shutdown issues. 02:31:58 Hey I am all game for something to help me with internet issues! Just moved a bit ago and my ISP has been having some intermittent drops. Definitely not a satisfied customer 😅 02:35:00 @thelastmonero:matrix.org: Yeah, let me check for more details, maybe I would share a document with the requirements and process. 02:47:50 @shortwavesurfer2009: Nvm, exolix has it 06:09:34 Cindy_, I understand why Steam doesn't accept it, but it would have been SO AWESOME. 06:10:33 I think on some services people here use to fill Steam, crypto is accepted. And I know some item marketplaces have it as an option, so one could buy an item there, sell it and fill Steam this way. 09:16:38 @j_0t:matrix.org: https://github.com/SChernykh/p2pool 09:17:03 Sadly you still need internet to be able to send/receive Monero blocks (so you can make new current tasks) 09:17:14 but this you can run fully on your own, distributed, even via Tor 10:06:53 could technically make it a mesh via meshtastic though, you could have one computer on an internet connection 100 miles away from the other and be able to transfer new blocks still 10:07:07 or maybe I'm tripping 10:07:56 probably tripping 10:17:05 you are tripping 10:18:03 you need to receive new monero blocks AND verify them 10:18:08 to be able to mine :) 10:18:12 (tbh joking, idk about meshtastic) 10:18:14 including transactions 10:18:28 meshtastic levels of telemetry won't be able to catch up 10:21:30 Maybe Reticulum could handle that? It's way more flexible. 10:24:17 is it using LoRa? 10:24:25 if so, no, it does not have the bandwidth 10:25:46 0.3-27 kbps on best conditions, single one, ensuring you don't hit the 10 or 20% duty cycle too 10:26:02 as soon as multi-hop is involved the whole airtime is killed 10:26:52 I think it's not limited to Lora, but may be mistaken. 10:26:55 one block (they come every two minutes) would take several hours to sync up 10:27:08 if it can use BT p2p sure, but that's very short range 10:27:26 but at that point you are just building an IP net 10:29:43 Looked it up and it is apparently more versatile than just that: https://reticulum.network/manual/hardware.html 10:30:13 all of that looks lora based :D 10:30:25 and point to point wi-fi links 10:30:52 Yeah but I guess that's the base. 10:31:03 but yeah. going outside of things that are either low bandwidth/power/wide area or high bandwidth/point-2-point requires ham radio license 10:31:31 TBH I've not even looked at Meshtastic that much, I just see this one mentioned alongside it quite a bit and know it can work over pretty much anything/ 10:31:56 it's also lora. bandwidth limits come from how it must transmit data 10:32:08 if you ignore txs entirely it'd still take a bit to sync up this and lose most block races 10:32:17 plus you help monero nothing mining empty blocks 10:32:20 True 10:32:48 you want something like https://blockstream.com/satellite/ lol 10:33:03 high bandwidth down, and telemetry levels up (when you find a block) 10:33:06 Also, I don't think it can work over HAM radio - it's technically possible, but encryption on HAM radio is not allowed and this one has encryption deeply baked-in. 10:33:14 not specifically 10:33:27 So yeah, in practice probably wi-fi and such 10:33:28 monero data is as-is 10:33:30 you are handling the data in public 10:33:39 https IS allowed in ham 10:34:00 but what you are not allowed is make a C&C system that is encrypted 10:34:01 But you're transmitting that data encrypted just because it's baked into the Reticulum protocol. 10:34:02 it can be signed, though 10:34:16 yeah when you have ham radio stuff there are better protocols 10:34:32 and packet based radio 10:34:44 meshtastic also has that ham mode, where it stops encrypting and just signs 10:34:56 To an outside observer, it's impossible to see that it actually is public block data though. So how is that any different? 10:35:06 Didn't know that about Meshtastic! 10:35:11 also https://blockstream.com/satellite-queue/ :D 10:35:26 omg it does. COOL. 10:35:57 it is BlueyHealer if you tag/identify the data 10:36:44 Yeah, but it would still be encrypted. How would an observer verify that the tags didn't just lie? And not sure there even is such a capability in Reticulum, I think there are unencrypted bits but they're pretty specific. 10:37:33 I mostly know Reticulum from being less restricted in what type of data you can transmit inside. 10:38:40 https://github.com/markqvist/Reticulum/discussions/399 10:39:14 https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/radio/user/#is-licensed-ham 10:39:30 I'll give that a read! 10:39:47 and yeah, the last one I just looked up, had no idea they had this! 10:39:56 doesn't matter BlueyHealer by the point you are doing mesh via point to point wifi for bandwidth there are better options 10:40:06 if you do ham packet radio 10:40:14 you can literally bounce of satellites today 10:40:29 or hit relays in orbit 10:40:45 Can you do this with power allowed for non-licenced people? 10:40:57 ? 10:41:02 you must be ham lol 10:41:07 you are using ham frequencies 10:41:14 it's not about power 10:41:54 you can do Reticulum over ip or whatever 10:41:58 ^ 10:42:00 Ok I was thinking about something else. 10:42:04 at that point it's an ip net 10:42:19 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amateur_radio_satellite#Past_launches 10:42:39 OSCAR = Orbiting Satellite Carrying Amateur Radio 10:43:08 https://www.amsat.org/status/ 10:43:19 DataHoarder | if you do ham packet radio <- I was thinking specifically about using Meshtastic as an amateur - so participating in a network of non-amateurs. So no, with those ones, you can't just use an amateur band and all those cool stuff. 10:43:30 "so participating in a network of non-amateurs." 10:43:31 no 10:43:38 you'd be hitting duty limits 10:43:43 wdym? 10:43:48 sorry for being stupid 10:43:58 for lora frequencies there's a duty cycle you must follow 10:44:06 Like, "a network of non-amateurs" is the whole point of Meshtastic 10:44:08 depending on country 10:44:12 Like? 10:44:17 oh you mean ham radio amateurs 10:44:49 non-amateurs = licensed freqs :D 10:45:04 Yes. 10:45:06 Reticulum's main author just made an llm to automatically apply a verbal beatdown to anyone who opens an issue to change the license 10:45:15 Non-amateurs as in normal people. 10:45:27 but here for example duty cycle is 10% 10:45:30 that means you can only transmit for 10% of the time at most 10:45:34 measured hourly 10:46:00 i am a non-non-amateur myself 10:46:08 good table for example https://meshtastic.org/docs/configuration/radio/lora/#region 10:46:56 Yeah, I'm just confused what we're talking about at this point. 10:46:56 monero is built for high bandwidth networks 10:47:04 specially with the push to get GiB-long blocks 10:47:17 LoRa isn't even good enough to send a whole CD's worth of data 10:47:22 in time 10:47:26 so that bandwidth is only possible with point to point or single source broadcasts 10:47:28 what makes you think it's good for monero :P 10:47:34 Cindy: it wouldn't be able to get block headers :P 10:47:46 DataHoarder | it's not about power <- Meshtastic site says one of the benefits of being a licenced HAM specifically on Meshtastic is being able to transmit with higher power and use higher-gain antennas. 10:47:56 so at that point reticulum doesn't matter. meshtastic doesn't matter 10:47:58 you are making an ip net 10:48:01 yeah i do 8-track cassette over lora usually myself 10:48:18 Cindy, true! That's why I was wondering about Reticulum, but I barely know anything about it and don't know what exactly the bottlenecks are. 10:48:23 i make an ip ne myself 10:48:38 you see many mesh networks solve the problem of handling the meshing or comms 10:48:47 but you want something else tbh 10:49:05 i want something else myself 10:50:18 so yeah, find a system that can sync up several GiB every couple of minutes :) 10:50:47 LoRa is good for low-speed but high-range transmission of data 10:51:00 (as long as you employ hashes or even error correction) 10:51:19 and compression too 10:52:27 yeah. telemetry link 10:53:25 BTW missed the initial context of a conversation. Are we talking about, like, using XMR when they turn off the mobile internet? 10:53:43 we're talking about transmitting monero blocks over LoRa or something 10:53:44 to mine them 10:53:56 being able to mine without internet 10:53:57 Yeah - just in what context? That depends. 10:54:07 in a trustless way 10:54:13 ^ 10:54:15 aka, receiving block headers (and txs) to verify them 10:54:22 a miner that's far away from a monerod computer that has internet 10:54:26 the miner itself has no internet 10:54:29 then making normal mining 10:54:31 also be able to send mined blocks back 10:54:49 Like, at least here shutdowns are semi-frequent, but short. And wired internet works so it'd be a matter of only transmitting for a short range, until someone has wi-fi. And it's not like you'd be mining on a cellular connection anyway... 10:54:59 afaik you'd need to get the headers locally or you are trusting that like a centralized pool 10:55:27 or, won't be mining txs and not helping monero 10:55:40 if link is high latency, you are running behind and will not be helping monero either 10:55:44 just make more orphans 10:56:00 a regular monero RPC (for making txs or checking incoming txs) would be fine over LoRa 10:56:11 Oh, nice! 10:56:16 just have compression and error correction for the JSON data 10:56:28 that's too much traffic, Cindy 10:56:30 even in binary form 10:56:35 which p2pool for example uses 10:56:38 oh yeah 10:56:41 i forgot, wallet blocks 10:57:11 it could use something like monero-lws 10:57:17 as wallet 10:57:31 where lws pre-checks what applies to you :) 10:57:33 still. slow 10:58:01 you want a high bandwidth (relatively) broadcast network 10:58:06 and a low bandwidth, low frequency return network 10:58:28 easy 10:58:32 broadcast network gets blocks/transactions etc. 10:58:34 you locally can use that to sync up nodes 10:58:36 we just need to burn incoming monero blocks onto CD-Rs 10:58:40 and throw them outside 10:58:47 then send back txs 10:59:04 Cindy: nah, streaming tape 10:59:06 write on one side, read on other 10:59:08 :) 10:59:21 Why not USB sticks then? 10:59:38 CD-Rs work as Frisbee 10:59:58 Few people even have disk drives now because it's just kinda pointless... 11:00:04 can be launched with a cd gun :) 11:00:13 I have tape drives lol 11:00:28 Oh wow! Why? Just residue from the past? 11:00:28 BlueyHealer: but no frisbee! 11:00:34 but yeah. one BD drive somewhere to rip stuff locally 11:00:37 also i still have a disk drive in my laptop 11:00:44 on that topic, tape currently being written 11:00:50 BlueyHealer: nah, bulk storage 11:00:53 Oh! What for? 11:01:07 tape price keeps going down 11:01:08 Is it the kind of tape that's good for retaining data for a long time? 11:01:09 as long as you can find reasonably priced tape drives :) 11:01:12 yeah 11:01:15 Oh, cool! 11:01:16 specifically LTO-* 11:01:18 LTO-8 11:01:43 12TB (not TiB) tapes, I make two copies cause it's so cheap 11:02:27 First time I see someone actually do that in personal life) That's so nice. 11:02:36 LTO-10 can do 30/40TB per tape raw 11:02:43 I found an extreme good deal on a new sealed drive lol 11:03:07 just had to convert it to standalone by reverse engineering firmware a bit :) 11:03:35 making some custom cables ... and got to use the Glasgow-C3 too 11:03:39 So guys please explain to me. This guy is founder and Russian and lives in UK and he is founder for some financial startup for a company of 5 people. How this works ? Are they really smart or someone gave them this position or it’s money laundering. All young and ceo and cio Russians and Ukrainians in Uk.. 11:03:42 dumped SPI chips too 11:04:00 BlueyHealer: also people still use optical disks 11:04:03 and drives 11:04:10 especially in 3rd world nations 11:04:33 but really. I have a lot of data which is mostly archives on HDD. I'm downsizing that and making it go offline, and not require constant spinning 11:05:00 BlueyHealer: https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/barrel 11:05:18 made this based on "age" tool to write headers and metadata in a more resilient way 11:05:21 Cindy, I mean I get it's inertia. 11:05:36 extracts the key header for safe keeping elsewhere (you need this to decrypt) 11:05:39 BTW what 11:05:45 BTW what Git is that? 11:05:47 also adds some extra sums and header to the end of tape 11:06:01 it's mine 11:06:08 See "Spec notes from age-encryption.org/v1" 11:06:20 No, I understand - I mean what Git implementation is that? 11:06:31 forgejo 11:06:33 also lol 11:06:33 Ah! 11:06:35 it's git 11:06:38 what git implementation is it? it's git 11:06:40 they all use git 11:06:48 github != git :) 11:07:00 dude you don't need to explain that 11:07:09 https://git-scm.com/ 11:07:14 "what Git implementation is that?" just triggered that :) 11:07:28 I know the underlying git is the same, but I don't know how to phrase the question of whether it's Gitea, Cgit, etc. 11:07:39 what forge is that? 11:08:08 ^ forge is the common naming for vc + project management tools + ci 11:08:10 anyhow, archival script https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/barrel/src/branch/master/scripts/tape-archive.sh 11:08:12 it effectively makes an encrypted tar 11:08:40 and produces manifest and sum files 11:08:45 which allow you to do streaming decryption/verify https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/barrel/src/branch/master/scripts/tape-unarchive-verify.sh 11:09:10 straight to tar verify :) 11:09:17 Ah! Thanks, didn't know this was called a "forge". 11:09:39 tape has all that's needed to decrypt itself (key headers in a couple of places) but is also archived elsewhere 11:09:51 encryption requires the modified standard tool (so it generates manifests/headers) 11:10:09 decryption uses all standard tools, does not depend on mine 11:10:11 that was the key point :) 11:10:12 Can't one just copypaste a Veracrypt container onto tape? 11:10:39 where does veracrypt store header? 11:10:41 can it sustain failure of a block to decrypt the rest? 11:10:49 and not require constant spinning <- Your HDDs are constantly on? 11:11:09 also, tapes are not really that seekable 11:11:18 DataHoarder | can it sustain failure of a block to decrypt the rest? <- Never thought of that. I don't think so. So this is more failure-safe? 11:11:20 can it stream fetch files, say, "I want X Y Z out of this tape" 11:11:40 instead of having to take out the full 12TB then process? 11:12:08 yeah, the point is archival and be able to do selective streamable retrieval (even though you need to read the entire tape) 11:12:12 Ah, so this one is. 11:12:14 seeking will kill the tape fast 11:12:26 Understandable. 11:12:38 12:10:49 and not require constant spinning <- Your HDDs are constantly on? 11:12:40 if you want them to live, yeah 11:12:43 heads flying, spinning 11:12:45 they maybe have like 14 start/stop in the past 8 years 11:13:04 oh 11:13:13 the head ramp/park is what messes with it the most 11:13:41 and when you have a fleet of them it matters :) 11:13:49 I only plug it in when in use, the little noise they make is annoying. There's a reason I bought an SSD for my seeding box instead. 11:14:07 I have plenty of SSDs 11:14:13 but when you are trying to do a couple hundred TBs it gets expensive :) 11:14:17 A fleet of them? Do they back each other up or all have different data? 11:14:34 wtf where do you even GET hundreds of terabytes over the course of your life 11:14:38 yes, raid kind of 11:14:40 specifically ceph :) 11:14:40 I don't even have two! 11:14:47 some replication, some cluster level erasure coding 11:15:17 well. you start with 1TB. then two. then 4, then get a small 4-bay nas. then second one. then 16 bay. then start servers cause $$$ 11:16:31 anyhow, for resiliency, look at this format https://github.com/C2SP/C2SP/blob/main/age.md#encrypted-file-format 11:16:43 the header wraps the actual random keys for the recipients. 11:16:45 it's at the start 11:17:03 without this, even if you have the recipient keys/password, the rest is useless 11:17:11 then 11:17:12 > The binary payload encrypts the file body and starts immediately after the header. It begins with a 16-byte nonce generated by the sender from a CSPRNG. A new nonce MUST be generated for each file. 11:17:33 this 16-byte nonce is required for decryption too 11:17:36 if gone, rest is useless 11:17:48 then each block has a block counter and nonce. this is fine, as each block has it, you can "seek" and skip bad blocks 11:18:32 so what you do is back up the header AND nonce, add it to the tail of the tape (or some other place); also is extracted as metadata so it can be backed up using other means 11:19:33 Ah so it's per-file so that it's not all one big blob 11:19:41 not per file per se 11:19:49 I make one large streamed blob with Tar 11:20:01 which gets encrypted 11:20:09 you could make multiple, in the scripts I just handle this case 11:20:15 all this project does is wrap upstream https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/barrel/src/branch/master/internal/barrel/age.go#L17 11:20:41 and has it write keys, grabs them, then passes it fully to upstream 11:20:43 ah 11:21:13 I added some more features to it though 11:21:20 I generate the specific tar with compat flags I know 11:21:32 and process files in specific ways 11:21:39 https://git.gammaspectra.live/WeebDataHoarder/barrel/src/branch/master/cmd/barrel/barrel.go#L150-L272 11:22:03 it also checksums each file individually as it streams through and stitches things together 11:22:31 this gets written to external metadata files ... but also makes sha256sum compatible files :) 11:23:07 all this ensures that the complexity and need to be careful is on the input side (backing up), not output side (recovery) 11:23:41 DataHoarder: reed-solomon soon? :o 11:23:41 output/recovery side is as boring as it should be, minus if tape ended up borked, then you have the header files 11:24:00 you can do that on your own, but nah 11:24:02 tapes already do their own 11:24:05 I use this setup with A/B tapes 11:24:28 oh so the tape drive itself does the error correction? 11:24:33 someone else I know uses this script/tool too and just uses them on single tapes 11:24:35 yes. 11:24:37 it's needed, ahead of time 11:24:38 How many copies do you usually have? 11:24:43 as you can't really slow down the tape quick 11:24:49 A/B tapes indicates two 11:25:00 Also, are tapes like this still manufactured? 11:25:09 but they use it as long term archival, so tapes are backup 11:25:11 yes lol 11:25:13 they are modern tech 11:25:15 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linear_Tape-Open 11:25:44 https://irc.gammaspectra.live/0ce2acaed50e26c9/image.png 11:25:52 So again - for each file, how many copies do you usually make? 11:26:12 I don't do "files" I backup datasets 11:26:14 I make a dataset of many files 11:26:18 each dataset goes on A/B tapes 11:26:20 12:24:49 A/B tapes indicates two 11:26:28 Ah, that was about this. Got it. 11:26:48 that is the archival setup. each A/B tape goes to different locations 11:27:15 while metadata can be backed up widely 11:27:17 it's small :) 11:27:17 I just refresh each location's backup whewnever I feel like it. 11:28:11 remember that changing a "file" on a tape requires rewriting it 11:28:17 so I just backup 12TB long-term chunks :) 11:28:49 sometimes related, other times it's what I have to backup 11:29:36 for lto-8 prices - in non-bulk, new, small packs 11:29:40 it's like $50 every 12TB 11:30:07 you can probably find waaay better if you are a sole proprietor company 11:30:41 that's like $4/TB 11:30:57 What a deal, had no idea) 11:31:02 new 11:31:04 best price for HDDs is used drives, 3TB, at $9/TB 11:31:32 or at higher density, very used SAS 12TB drives, at $10.8/TB 11:31:38 meanwhile: new tapes :) 11:31:46 2x still ends up below that pricing 11:32:05 able to do bulk 20x box? you can find these at 10-30% discounts at least 11:32:43 actually scratch that. you can find them even fucking cheaper 11:34:25 First link and it's already not the price I'd expect for 12TB storage) 11:36:19 yeah 11:36:21 pricing error 11:36:32 snatched it 11:36:34 risk is worth it 11:37:07 if they send just one - item description is wrong and I'll get money back 11:38:43 > Item Weight: 9.88 Pounds 11:58:40 DataHoarder: have you heard of 5D optical data storage 11:59:08 5D disks 12:00:55 What's the point of those? 12:01:30 Cindy: But there’s only 3d 12:01:58 the data is encoded in different angles 12:02:01 that's the 3D 12:02:18 depending on where you view the disk, it'll give you different data 12:02:22 that's the 5D* 12:02:44 BlueyHealer: storing up to 360TB of data in a 12cm disk 12:02:53 Hard disk but using like the sides of the magnetic disk? 12:02:59 that can survive harsh conditions and for billions of years 12:03:01 OOH 12:03:06 360TB?!?! 12:03:39 yes 12:04:09 it uses an extremely short laser i think, like a femtosecond 12:04:23 or about a quadrillionth of a second 12:05:04 https://www.gog.com/en/news/heroes_of_might_and_magic_2_heroes_chronicles_and_a_legendary_crystal 12:05:13 here's an example of a 5D disk 12:05:38 storing a copy of heroes of might and magic 3: complete 12:06:06 I don't remember it being 360 TB in size 12:06:10 So not magnetic but like a dvd/cd? 12:06:52 well yeah, it uses lasers 12:51:43 hello, will the upcoming FCMP++ upgrade fix the Janus attack? 13:22:59 @dufebo98:monero.social: Yes. Check here: https://github.com/jeffro256/carrot/blob/master/carrot.md#212-janus-attack-mitigation 13:23:16 It won't wash the dished and do the laundy, however :) 14:48:45 To be more specific, Carrot addressing does 14:48:53 FCMP++ is coming along with it as well, but they are two different things 16:20:56 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/monero.social/dVLCxwdCDfedNVcqNFyhoovA.jpeg (image_0ABBF793-F158-4144-9D5C-D471A9E01057_1767025285.jpeg) 16:28:55 more Risc-V :D 16:45:36