07:38:23 Did no one teach you how to respectfully talk with someone? > <@crazybot:matrix.org> @datahoarder:monero.social: ur bridge is down for #monero-markets u fucking retard 07:38:28 The abusive tone was uncalled for 08:23:34 ^ dont care, didnt ask, go cry a river to some shit like the HR department or the Monero CEO @plowsof:matrix.org 08:24:01 @sbt:nope.chat: he's jealous 08:29:42 ^ lmao jealous of what? of being bff with the glowies? yea no thx, ill pass lmao 08:29:42 could prob get a temp bridge up an running that would probably be working in like less than 5mins, fuck that tho 08:29:42 but sure, have fun with the echochamber irc bullshits or whatever lmao 08:30:38 anyways, @sbt:nope.chat dont ping me 08:30:38 kthxbye 08:33:46 "working bridge" != "nice bridge" which was made from scratch in this case and not used MAI 08:34:01 as usual "kthxbye" but comes back a second later 08:37:20 so is better to have something that is not working 08:37:20 gotta be all fancy and shits else its not nice enough and have nothing is better, aight lol 08:37:43 👍️ 08:38:31 I am not responsible from bridging channels I'm not asked to bridge by staff, so take your issue with them (including your ban evasion) 08:38:37 I do the bridging, not the decision for bridging 08:42:38 why would "i take the issue with them"? 08:42:38 like i said, i could get one up and running, not gonna bother with that tho 08:42:38 meanwhile you're the retard that dont "take the issue with them" to help you fix your broken shit that's too fancy to even work properly 08:43:30 there is no broken stuff. Bridge was asked to be disabled on that channel and was done so 08:43:34 If you bring one in, the ops will block it 08:47:41 shits 08:47:51 aight well earlier u was like, that's probably because of the matrix version that is outdated 08:47:51 so i thought "oh, so u could just use an earlier version of your bridge back when it was working with that older matrix version thing" 08:47:51 but now u giving yet an other story about the ops or whatever 08:47:55 anyways, cya o/ 08:48:05 the tl;dr is that until there's two-way moderation (so that IRC ops can ban and remove matrix users like yourself quickly) they don't want the bridge 08:48:14 cya till one second later 08:48:34 09:47:51 so i thought "oh, so u could just use an earlier version of your bridge back when it was working with that older matrix version thing" 08:48:34 no, that room wasn't broken 08:48:39 afaik 08:48:54 state is broken that causes invites to go bad, which is unrelated to bridge(?) 08:50:15 Rolled-back state simply results in brainspliting (i.e., netspliting) 08:50:20 at this point I don't know the state of each channel tbh. The bridge itself works on all fine, Matrix federation is what breaks 08:51:17 V12 makes it harder to break, but contextually state resolution isn't fixed 08:51:22 old bridge spans 31 channels, new bridge 14 08:52:43 Update room versions and add knocking for kitty lols 08:52:45 old bridge has 6 channels disabled, of those 4 were migrated to new, 1 was disabled by Libera Staff due to abuse, 1 was disabled due to request from channel ops 08:53:13 and a couple are unlisted that are either not setup properly or had broken state to start with (or were explicitly undesired to be bridged) 08:53:30 Regardless, invites are considered harmful, it takes a single shitter to mass invite the room into an oblivion 08:54:09 but afaik all requests for bridging coming from either channel ops for monero-adjacent rooms (like cuprate/revuo etc.) or monero group registered ones (usually plowsof asks) were listed 08:56:07 @gan:skhron.org: there are some rooms that are unjoinable to non monero.social users 08:56:13 that's the state issue :) 08:56:52 @datahoarder: That's interesting, contextually the rooms should be always joinable, but could be totally broken 08:57:05 an upgrade to latest room version is pending on many rooms, offtopic was migrated, and the P2Pool channels too seamlessly (bridge also follows tombstones) 08:58:15 such total breakage is known to be caused by enabling restricted/knocking joins in a room which doesn't support it by its version 08:58:35 I've seen that only two times at most 08:58:44 and it was probably fixed in Synapse 09:00:53 that is, assuming I'm even correctly recalling the bug 10:18:19 Children are not allowed to join. Better troll somewhere else > <@uncalled_for:matrix.org> anyways, @sbt:nope.chat dont ping me 10:19:25 @uncalled_for:matrix.org: Omg get a life. Winny attention seeking bitch 12:14:06 https://www.timesofisrael.com/zcash-the-israeli-developed-virtual-money-starts-to-make-its-mark/ 12:14:06 Just found out that Zcash was created by Mossad. LOL! 12:14:29 oh noes 12:15:04 @weiningerenjoyer99:matrix.org: This is where I get all my news 12:15:23 "Sorry, you have been blocked" 12:15:28 "You are unable to access The Times of Israel. " 12:15:33 " If you’re using a VPN, please turn it off and try again. " 12:15:47 wow, i love news sites that block tor 12:16:04 if you are using an Israeli-company owned VPN they let you in no problem 12:16:31 Cindy: I think it's the same with X 12:17:04 I tried to use X on Tor once and they didn't let me in pause 12:17:11 i just use xcancel 12:17:37 yeah, just use privacy frontends to bypass sites with vpn/proxy/tor restrictions 12:17:48 also i kept rolling my tor circuit until i got in the news site 12:17:55 i'm using a german exit node 12:18:07 actually, germany is majority of the exit nodes anyway 12:18:24 Yes, crazy 12:18:30 I love the police state of Germany 12:18:37 the best place ever to exist 12:18:47 Germany is almost a socialist dictatorship 12:19:09 especially when they harass Tor operators, so lovely there! 12:19:09 But they are really carrying the boats 12:19:36 (my server runs on Hetzner 🧌) 12:20:14 EU likes to pretend they care about digital rights 12:20:20 What is this? > i just use xcancel 12:20:22 weiningerjoyer99 https://github.com/zedeus/nitter/wiki/Instances#public 12:20:35 italy giving unrealistic demands to cloudflare, germany raiding tor exit node operators 12:20:49 @gan:skhron.org: They literally put them in jail 12:20:51 spain calling grapheneOS a criminal OS 12:20:59 france wanting to ban encryption 12:21:55 @weiningerenjoyer99:matrix.org: Absolutely true - https://forum.torproject.org/t/tor-relays-artikel-5-e-v-another-police-raid-in-germany-general-assembly-on-sep-21st-2024/14533 12:21:57 denmark chat control 12:21:58 but hey! politicians are exempt from all this 12:22:12 what hypocrites 12:22:53 their messages should be public instead 12:23:05 @gan:skhron.org: They'll do everything in their powers to take over people's freedom 12:23:13 shitpost: but how will they talk to the successor to epstein 12:23:20 and organize diddy parties 12:23:32 c'mon think about them 12:24:23 @weiningerenjoyer99:matrix.org: I'm certain, considering their occasional fights with the Freifunk crowd and meshnet runners 12:24:43 Cindy: Epstein was top 3 Mossad agents in history 12:25:17 That nigga was a really good agent 12:25:20 No cap 12:25:45 Still nonetheless, Germany have the largest hacker community there, so nothing will go down without a battle 12:25:52 And he died by the jewish sword, you gotta respect it 12:28:55 Damn, thanks for sharing about XCancel 12:29:08 Never heard about it before. 12:29:08 Great stuff! 12:30:32 gan: that's why they try to get them hooked on the "open source funding" 12:32:32 if they can get people to think that they'll be funded for making open source stuff, they can later use it against them 12:32:49 by pushing them against making projects with undesirable goals in mind 12:33:02 pushing them away from* 12:34:00 it worked for GNU taler, they literally got that project wrapped around their fingertips 12:34:33 and made it accept shit antithetical against its goals, like KYC for the sender 12:35:28 what are these ban lists for monero nodes? is that really a necessary idea and not risky? 12:36:03 Bunnyh: the ban lists are for spy nodes that were detected on the network 12:36:49 I understand, that just sounds like a risky thing and potential pretense, but then again I don't fully understand how monero differs from bitcoin in that regard - bitcoin I understand very well since beginning 12:36:56 What's a spy node? 12:37:14 so maybe I'm just not seeing why they really would be more helpful than risky 12:37:24 a node that basically takes note of what IP a transaction originated from 12:37:39 among other shit i think 12:38:28 like how can we detect that kind of behavior well enough that it actually would work if people used such ban lists? then the potential abuse of the lists is another matter 12:38:29 they are used to associate transactions to a specific node, which is useful for associating self-hosted nodes 12:39:03 Bunnyh: how much their RPC behavior differs from the official monerod RPC 12:39:13 these lists are made by fellow monero developers 12:39:32 these spy nodes don't actually run their own nodes IIRC 12:39:33 Bunnyh: https://github.com/Boog900/p2p-proxy-checker 12:39:34 right, but couldn't a spy node fake normal behavior enough to fly off the radar and make the lists useless anyway? 12:39:38 they just forward requests to another one 12:41:12 read what boog900 gave 12:42:05 now if you host your node over I2P or Tor, you don't have to worry about spy nodes 12:42:15 ok 12:42:17 because there is no IP address to associate 12:42:30 so and all peers have the same ID, so it's effectively useless 12:43:29 boog900: did i explain it well? 12:46:42 Yeah although there is no way to put all communication over Tor onions/ I2p. 12:48:02 there isn't? 12:49:10 i don't think we need that 12:49:23 I read the link, and well the question remains couldn't the spy node operators counter this by making the peer_ids look right? 12:49:24 we can just have nodes that relay transactions from tor/I2P to clear web 12:49:41 and clear web to tor/I2P 12:50:17 so even if like only 20% of nodes are over tor or I2P, it still gives plausible amount of deniability 12:50:20 Bunnyh: Yes and they have for some nodes but they haven't moved their addresses 12:50:46 right, so this seems like a losing battle which is what I was thinking about here :/ 12:51:10 surely they won't remain stupid forever 12:52:57 it is 12:53:11 stuff like this is usually a cat and mouse game 12:53:23 can't think of much realistic abuse potential with such lists either, not that it wouldn't exist... hence me being suspicious about whether it's wise to employ such lists if it's a losing battle anyway and the hypothethical abuse potential remains 12:53:25 you detect them, and use that to block them 12:53:34 they learn to evade your detections 12:53:37 and then the cycle repeats 12:53:52 guess that's true yes 12:54:16 /join 7678788:matrix.org 12:55:34 Bunnyh: at first, they'll suck and be super easy to detect 12:55:48 but as time goes on, they get better and better 12:56:26 so really, the ultimate solution is to just use some anonymizing overlay 12:56:33 like tor and I2P 12:56:35 wouldn't treating such nodes as malicious actors and feeding them innocuous data work better than outright banning them and alerting we know? 12:56:56 they probably already watch the lists anyway 12:57:07 if it's public, they'll know 13:01:55 I wonder is the tor option in cake wallet enough for this 13:02:18 would always be best to run the real node of course 13:03:19 if you're using a public node (that is not itself a spy node), then you don't really have to worry about spy nodes 13:03:27 a lot of transactions go through public nodes 13:03:44 so i doubt spy nodes care about them because it's hard to associate anything to them 13:26:17 Man i stopped programming cause I can't get a job 13:26:22 AI fucking up my shit 13:29:15 they took er jeerb 13:29:25 Bunnyh: ban lists are measured by several members for nodes that are not legit, and reduce impact on end users to finding source of transaction broadcasts 13:29:43 13:39:34 right, but couldn't a spy node fake normal behavior enough to fly off the radar and make the lists useless anyway? 13:29:43 they don't 13:30:13 14:03:27 a lot of transactions go through public nodes 13:30:13 they can look at input->output timings 13:30:58 had a job at a crypto company for 10 years, lost it too but just before AI. I was just a bit too lazy :) 13:31:35 was it kraken? 13:31:41 obviously my job made monero kinda invisible to me 13:31:42 coinbase? 13:31:56 binance? 13:31:59 https://coinmotion.com/ 13:32:01 finnish company 13:32:20 they were getting increasingly cuddly with the regulation of course 13:32:58 it's either you get down or lay down 13:33:01 >blocks tor 13:33:06 fuck my goddamn life 13:33:13 the site blocks tor? 13:33:17 yes 13:33:18 lol 13:33:37 well as I said about loving regulation 13:34:08 "Crypto" companies/communities being hostile to anonymity has always been a strange case to me 13:34:11 Well, I would assume it wouldn't be surprising, giving that tor was originally a Navy project, plus probably a lot of honeypots behind the scenes 13:34:26 though I shouldn't get an opinion about it, I just got here lol 13:35:45 Anonomys25: we were talking about a site :P 13:36:22 is that even normal for crypto exchanges? in EU? 13:36:31 it's a broker really not an exchange though 13:36:33 Cindy ah, I stand corrected on not having an opinion on the matter then lol :p 13:36:59 Bunnyh: so this is like the dime-a-dozen crypto company that treats cryptocurrencies as speculative investments 13:37:02 sigh... amazing 13:37:17 pretty much, first tried to be very bitcoin maxi then gave in to alts 13:37:42 the company lead researcher last posted about monero in 2018 saying its for criminals :D 13:38:22 And we're basically soon to be all criminals in the coming fascist world. 13:38:29 also, bitcoin does segment its network based on ASN Bunnyh, but monero can't do this as well 13:38:31 Bunnyh: show me the blogpost lol 13:39:51 i'm not surprised they'll say monero is for criminals cuz.. they're europeans 13:40:01 i mean, the EU.. 2027... you guys get the drill now 13:40:42 oh it was on X, I don't think they care to talk at all about monero in official blogs :) https://x.com/thlbr/status/956826899992469504 searched his X profile as he likes to hold the bitcoin maxi line there fiercely 13:42:02 google translate to the rescue 13:42:23 X has internal translate now too probably with grok 13:42:43 i use xcancel.com 13:42:47 but anyway, wow 13:42:48 What could possibly go wrong... 13:43:28 moneromooo 13:43:30 everything 13:43:51 You are technically correct. 13:44:14 My favourite kind of correct. 13:45:03 monero is appealing to me because i don't have to deal with KYC or figuring out if my coins are stained or not 13:45:13 that doesn't sound like a criminal thing :P 13:45:46 Unfortunately the feds would think otherwise <_< 13:45:51 grok translate: Monero is appalling to me because i don't get to deal with KYC or figuring out my coins aren't tainted. 13:45:54 but monero is good with no kyc 13:46:30 but monero is no good with no hyc 13:46:39 moneromooo: appalling? 13:46:48 Puns... My favourite kind of humour... 13:46:49 I still need a rig to mine monero ;-; 13:46:51 lol 13:46:55 Anonomys25: a rig? 13:47:03 just mine with your... chromebook 13:47:15 actually no it prpobably has a garbage mobile ARM chip 13:47:30 those can be pretty good tbh 13:47:45 yeah i know, hashes per watt 13:47:47 Cindy I.... I could do that, except I would need to pretty much factory reset this damn thing since it's the school's. 13:47:58 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> try webmining even more hashrate 13:47:59 Witness my chrome... book! Mining monero mad max style on huge rigs. 13:48:07 if it's the school, literally don't touch it with a 10 foot pole 13:48:08 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> xd 13:48:22 Cindy yeah no, not going to lol 13:48:22 I kinda like the tail emission of monero, but bitcoin maxis are laser focused on the generational wealth aspect and abhor that. and only way to ensure generational wealth over decades appears to be to side with regulation ... facepalm 13:48:34 I rather get my own chromebook and slap a Linux distro instead 13:49:57 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> get a used business laptop 13:50:18 Bunnyh: currencies with no tail emissions suck 13:50:29 they usually just have like the top 10 richest people hoarding most of the supply 13:50:35 and no new coins coming in 13:50:46 tail emissions ensure that new coins keep coming in to miners 13:51:08 currencies with no cpu mining suck too 13:51:31 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> you saying ltc sucks 13:51:42 it's meh 13:51:46 also if everyone HODL'd, the whole currency would fall apart 13:51:52 without tail emissions 13:51:53 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> its low fee and used to pay anything xmr doesnt 13:52:10 there would be no fee rewards for miners 13:52:19 so no mining 13:52:38 no incentive to mine* 13:54:27 Bunnyh: tail emission makes the monetary amount stay constant long term 13:54:32 not inflationary 13:54:48 some % of loss happens per year and at some point these two meet up 13:55:04 people would like it if it was inflationary :P 13:55:13 inflation fetish 13:55:18 wait this is not offtopic 13:55:31 btw 17lifers, if ltc was cpu mining and mining reward were paid in mweb it would be a huge monero competitor 13:55:32 Curious Cindy, for coins that uses the tail emissions philosophy for their currencies, wouldn't that also cause a, idk, digital inflation? Forgive me for sounding stupid, one thing I am still learning is how the whole crypto market works in general -_-; 13:55:43 14:54:48 some % of loss happens per year and at some point these two meet up 13:55:45 luigi1111 predicted that without tail emissions, XMR would be inflationary 13:55:50 for more info, google: luigi inflation 13:56:15 there was an article about that, I forget, Rucknium linked it in a different channel I think 13:56:45 aha! https://petertodd.org/2022/surprisingly-tail-emission-is-not-inflationary 13:56:46 Anonomys25: i think the tail emissions adjust over time 13:56:56 see that link Anonomys25 13:57:39 the tail emission is fixed Cindy :D 13:57:48 that's what makes it tail emission and not normal emission 13:57:50 DataHoarder and I cant access it <_< its blocked for me atm. I will bookmark it for now 13:57:54 for now till I am home 13:58:04 is archive.org blocked for you? 13:58:13 DataHoarder yes 13:58:21 Wait, its an article... 13:58:31 omg I am stupid, I do have access to archive.is 13:58:39 https://archive.is/Ivmra 13:59:08 Ah I was going to copy the early link into it, but thank you 13:59:22 i wish i had a lick of tail emissions >:( 13:59:33 too bad when i mine on p2pool, my reward is split across 700 other people 13:59:34 smh 13:59:40 i get like mere cents 13:59:48 you get small licks of it 14:00:01 even if no loss happened the significance of a fixed tail emission would approach zero 14:00:12 yeah, Bunnyh 14:00:19 but that'd also make it purely deflationary 14:00:46 tail emission although small ends up making it constant effective supply 14:01:54 funny how that's a reasonable goal but also impossible to ever verify 14:02:44 the loss%? yeah 14:03:22 yes, I meant even if that resulted in constant effective supply it would be impossible to directly show it, guess you could try to prove the situation through some other metrics 14:03:27 in a PQ Turnstile situation you'd be able to count the magnitude that passed in the direction to PQ https://gist.github.com/jeffro256/146bfd5306ea3a8a2a0ea4d660cd2243 14:03:46 (until it's all done) 14:04:04 Reading it through twice made me realize I am probably going to have to also use some calculator for some of the equations for coin supply @_@ 14:04:05 > Optionally, the sum total of migration inputs a can be tracked to further mitigate unintended inflation. 14:05:17 luigi predicted lots of things. Very rarely, even correct things. 14:05:35 I'm fine with a supply that _should_ by logic be constant although it might be impossible to verify that at any moment 14:05:49 *effective supply 14:06:36 luigi inflation is real, back then it was luigi1110. 14:06:59 in bitcoin the situation is a dwindling supply everyone pretends to be 21M because "we can't know the real situation" 14:07:28 well, it's provably less than that Bunnyh :D 14:07:38 due to issuance bugs on blocks that effectively did burn, and other burned stuff 14:08:31 Bunnyh: don't tell me about all the bitcoins stored in lost wallets 14:08:39 or even null addresses 14:09:19 or dust split at 1 sat per output :P 14:09:24 Bunnyh: and bitcoin last halving will be in 2140, so it's technically tail emission for your lifespan, or maybe ai will make us immortal 14:09:30 from before txs had minimum fee enforced 14:09:48 it's not tail emission ufo808:matrix.org but constantly reducing 14:10:00 tail emission = fixed rate 14:10:23 yes 14:10:49 maybe there's confusion of two meanings of fixed. fixed amount, fixed % addition to supply 14:11:59 so in monero we have fixed amount leading to a % that will tend towards 0 14:13:39 IIRC aeon went the other way. 14:13:51 (an old monero fork) 14:15:17 factorially increasing inflation 14:21:22 https://gist.github.com/jeffro256/146bfd5306ea3a8a2a0ea4d660cd2243 heh it's going to be a bit hard to understand that 14:22:33 it's just a way to prove Carrot output derivations were generated by you in a post quantum world Bunnyh 14:22:41 so you can transfer these to a safe method 14:23:09 this needs to be introduced ahead of time (possibly next hardfork that gets FCMP++ and Carrot) so that's why it exists. it may not get used 14:23:13 oh, is carrot quantm-safe? 14:23:57 i thought it was only partially quantum-safe 14:24:34 that doesn't mean that. 14:24:44 it has safety on core areas and specially around proving derivations 15:13:41 Hey everyone, what does "Validating txpool for v9" mean (message from monerod during blockchain sync) 15:16:34 Can't find any documentation on what a txpool is 15:16:53 It's the set of transactions known to the node which aren't in a block yet. 15:16:54 a pool full of transactions to be put on blocks 15:17:56 Validating means checking the txes for adherence to version 9 consensus rules. 15:18:39 v9 seems old. IIRC we're at like 16 or more. So your node must be syncing historical stuff atm. 15:18:45 Is this a Monero thing or a general crypto thing? 15:19:25