00:38:34 Is the ban list now part of the DNS thing? Like if you have the dns blacklist enabled, it also take care of the MRL black list? 00:39:06 (Asking for friends, personally I implement the MRL list in the various firewalls) 00:46:57 ravfx yes as of now DNS has the MRL banlist 00:48:39 Oh nice, perfect 05:42:37 are we pumping again? 05:53:37 what is pumping? 05:53:50 xmr? 06:09:06 pls #monero-markets 06:15:02 sorry 06:15:07 kk 06:36:25 @munching:unredacted.org: "is a market manipulation tactic where the value of a token is artificially inflated to attract participants, then sold off, causing the price to crash." - CoinBase docs 06:37:32 btw, in Latin America and Spain, many content creators use this to scam people, e.g., Dalas Review. 06:38:39 People are very innocent around here. 07:34:18 Cindy: > "pls #monero-markets" 07:34:18 lol, #monero-markets is still not even bridged to your irc thing and u still out here telling people to go over there 07:34:32 meanwhile.... irc #monero-markets is filled with Centralized Exchanges (CEX) shills, literally 07:34:35 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/pAOWcbjXGsTgzyhuwfoUXkam.png (image.png) 07:35:14 can't make that shit up, that cringe ass dumbass be like "delistings are bad" 07:35:14 like wut? nah... centralized exchanges shouldnt even be a thing and are a threat to the cryptospace as a whole.... 07:35:36 they hijacked the whole space, doing price manipulation on their own off-chain software that has nothing to do with the actual blockchain 07:35:42 and yet that dumbass be like we need more of that? 07:35:50 fuck off, literally fuck off with that shit lol 07:36:29 @plowsof:matrix.org DataHoarder[m] ur psyop of keeping #monero-markets not bridge is getting more cringe by the day.... 07:36:29 please fix 07:36:29 kthxbye 07:37:35 lol 07:42:54 which of the 5 broken matrix rooms are you on, anyhow? :D 07:49:54 Why does it need bridge? So kitty can read w/o an account 07:51:04 So that we have IRC as a fallback for the comparatively many times the monero.social server doesn't feel like working 07:51:37 > which of the 5 broken matrix rooms are you on, anyhow? :D 07:51:37 fuck do i know, the default one when u add "monero.social" in the "server" on matrix and search for "market" to join #monero-markets 07:51:37 the one that xenu/antimoonboy the true market maker out here is in: 07:51:40 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/mgxoErNxjnmWnDuvXuzUvazY.png (image.png) 07:52:28 Oh, it's about 1 particular room only then? 07:55:00 i guess, plowsoff remade it the other day, currently 76 people in 07:55:00 they apparently have other versions of the room tho, with that long string of characters or whatever, like 5 different of them for #monero-markets apparently, idk wtf that is about tbh lol, i just talking the current active one that people are joining by default when looking for the room i guess lol 08:01:42 !IJwltLbZTwLnaNOHks:matrix.org this 1 08:24:35 @rbrunner7: yeah just kitty wanted that room bridged so they can read via logs to drop in when ban evading 08:25:46 and yeah. just that room is borked and there are multiple copies of it, some with bad state 09:20:34 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/unredacted.org/PhHmsdlTGaMpgIPWRnvEcsvQ.png (92c33670-f512-4224-b4fc-1d0fdbd3f832_d46680e4805d369540cd5b045c57a03c488fb141.png) 09:42:46 ^ coinbase changed their ToS to allow themselves to steal all the customers funds in case of bankruptcy 09:42:46 better hope they dont fall into a "hack" that would force them into bankruptcy lol 09:42:46 their customer service also got bribed to sell customers accounts including passwords, balances, home addresses and so on and didnt disclose it for 5 whole months while being aware of it, centralized exchanges shouldnt be endorsed 09:47:32 The ToS change likely was to reflect the current legal reality that in the event of bankruptcy the courts are unlikely to award cryptoassets to customers and instead award them to creditors of the exchange. 09:50:45 There are tradeoffs to leaving coins on an exchange, but fundamentally you've relinquished your spend ability and have entrusted that to someone else 09:51:03 Imagine keeping your crypto on an exchange at all times lol 09:51:27 https://www.ccn.com/education/crypto/what-happens-if-crypto-exchange-goes-bankrupt/ 09:52:09 TBH if I were to use an exchange to buy, I'd do so in small chunks, so that a large sum can't become missing all at once. 09:57:50 I can't find it, but I read an article that essentially said that even if the exchange promised that users would get the deposited cryptocurrency before creditors did in the ToS, with bankruptcy law that might not actually happen. 10:03:35 Treat exchanges as public toilets. You get in, you do your business, you get out 10:03:41 Of course, there are so many variables and it is difficult to know how a court would actually rule if Coinbase went bankrupt. But the principle "not your keys, not your coins" always applies. If you are the only person controlling the wallet keys, then you don't have to care about things like legal seizure of exchanges (TradeOgre), exchange bankruptcy, or general exchange dishonesty. 10:06:32 (mind you the meme was a joke) 10:06:55 I was pretty sure it was, but we get all kinds of people in this channel. 10:07:02 yeah fair 10:07:12 I've never signed up to any exchange actually 10:09:42 wasn't there a guy here crying about the fact that all his XMR got stolen by kucoin? 10:11:51 TBH I feel kind of wrong to mock people this happened to, because we all made our share of mistakes and we didn't always use to think of some things that would later come back to bite us. 10:12:19 yeah true 10:13:19 Like, I didn't use to think about surveillance or software freedom until very recently. About security - until even more recently. 10:13:28 BlueyHealer: I've lost more crypto locally than remotely but your mileage may vary. I think it's better in general to only have stuff on an exchange when you need to trade, IF you are ready to follow good processes for self-custody 10:13:30 which honestly, most people aren't 10:13:42 but this guy deposited all his eggs into one basket 10:13:48 so that he could swap to USDC 10:13:54 obviously it's a huge risk to designate authority to an exchange 10:14:00 instead, he got caught by automated AML systems 10:14:01 At least locally you can take more measures rather than it being entirely out of your hands. 10:14:08 it 10:14:39 is also a huge risk to just think things will workout locally without understanding wtf 10:15:01 exchanges are not created equal. software isn't either. 10:16:41 and old setups can stop working 10:16:59 papers can be lost, drives fail (where I lost the most) 10:17:41 what was 'spare change' becomes significant. you get it enuf spam 10:29:44 <321bob321> You dont keep the seed phrases backed up ? 10:30:29 my biggest lost was when I neglected to. What was 'change' became worth a lot more, didn't write the phrase down, drive failed 10:30:56 so it was definitely my fault 10:31:44 combination of factors.. 10:31:50 made terrible trades too 10:32:54 so, step 1 is become proficient in linux, step 2 is sort through all the huge amounts of bullshit and find the right programs to run, step 3 is write down your seed phrase 10:33:04 step 4 is don't opsec fail 10:33:14 I'm sure normies are capable of all that (not) 10:33:40 I'm not counting step 2.5 where you sync for like half a week lol 10:34:10 TBH I do my backups the normie way anyway - Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V 10:34:26 Although now I know better than to use thumb drives. 10:34:39 (thankfully that was not learned from experience) 10:35:24 my fail was an SSD that had only light use (besides the sync) 10:35:29 totally unrecoverable 10:36:44 basically, you should keep your seed phrase (which assumes physical security, ofc) 10:37:16 or if someone finds your phrase they don't know what it is. or you encode that or break it up. might be best. 10:38:11 all I'm saying is in the face of all that, exchanges might make sense for a normie 10:38:54 Yeah. Several copies and periodically check the medium. 10:39:26 What's even the point of using crypto if you're keeping it on an exchange though? 10:39:38 I can only see "using them as stocks". 10:40:39 And some doubts about how useful that is for "paying for things that you can't use your card on" 10:41:27 BlueyHealer: yes, people keep them on CEXs to use them as "stocks" 10:41:40 these are the people who get their ass bitten hard 10:45:01 there's fun stuff where you can lose all funds due to the way your phrase is generated too 10:45:06 see milk sad 10:45:35 so then you'd still follow all proper processes but the library you used had a problem that was discovered later. 10:45:45 do seeds have error creation? 10:45:50 i mean error correction* 10:45:56 so your cold storage air gapped wallet just went to 0 10:45:58 <321bob321> Not to be a dick, but sounds like skill issue 10:46:26 is there like a seed format that has error correction, because i've only seen those that have checksums 10:46:28 the milk sad thing? or how I lost a few coins? 10:46:43 which only defend against typing the seed wrong, but doing no correction 10:48:19 I'm talking about seed phrase generation 10:48:34 i know 10:49:01 ok. that relies on good system entropy 10:49:09 and a good library to use it 10:49:28 ideally libraries should have test cases or fuzzers 10:49:41 that encode a randomly-generated array of bytes to a seed and then decode it back to the original 10:49:44 and compare both 10:49:54 and do this for many many times to catch bugs 10:50:18 yes, I like what you're typing 11:01:11 If you' 11:01:33 i learnt that polyseed does have some error correction 11:01:38 "The mnemonic phrase can be treated as a polynomial over GF(2048), which enables the use of an efficient Reed-Solomon error correction code with one check word. All single-word errors can be detected and all single-word erasures can be corrected without false positives." 11:01:40 I still don't quite understand. If yu've tested that your seed phrase works already, can it stop working after a while? 11:02:38 Or you're talking about "wrote down the seedphrase and it turned out to be initially corrupted"? 11:03:35 so from what i can understand from this 11:03:52 if you can't figure out one word in a polyseed, you can still import it just fine 11:04:08 i'm saying a few things. one is that this is all way way way too much for a normie to handle 11:04:16 it won't be handled by normies, properly, ever 11:04:42 Backups sometimes are, though? At least that's a relatively easy thing to learn. 11:04:45 maybe they can get a device that allows them to be dumber but still have self custody like a hardware wallet 11:04:53 but those have problems too, it's not a full solution 11:05:15 Aren't hardware wallets prohibitively expensive? 11:05:29 the other is that even when everything is 'done right' there are failure modes 11:05:47 such as when your seed generation library has a flaw. see milk sad 11:06:25 so you can have a valid, working seed, but then years later someone finds a weak spot in how it was made and pood 11:06:26 poof 11:07:24 fair 11:07:30 can't you recover it from a older version of the library? 11:07:39 if it used to work in a flawed way? 11:07:54 (i mean surely there could be a compatibility mode for flawed seeds from previous versions) 11:08:03 Cindy, maybe the point is in someone using it to steal money from wallets? 11:08:15 you cannot recover your coins if someone spent them 11:08:15 Like, that they weren't actually random enough? 11:08:21 as I'm sure you know 11:08:29 oooh 11:08:35 you mean someone stole them 11:08:43 not that, the seed algorithm was changed up 11:09:11 yes, someone found your seed phrase, because it wasn't really random enough, exactly 11:09:40 yeah now i understand 11:09:48 that's not a problem with the seed algorithm 11:09:53 that's just a problem with the RNG 11:10:05 Like, I've seen writeups on how supposedly-random values were actually guessable/bruteforceable from the data you know. 11:10:20 cindy, that's not entirely correct 11:10:28 hm? 11:10:41 read up on milk sad 11:10:59 you'll see what I mean and we'll both save time :) 11:11:03 "On vulnerable 3.x versions, bx seed used the weak Mersenne Twister pseudorandom number generator (PRNG) to produce cryptographic key material, which is a critical design error." 11:11:10 yeah, it's a problem with the RNG they used 11:11:17 this was obviously not designed by cryptographer 11:11:19 cryptographers* 11:11:39 no, it was a problem with the library that generated the seed phrase 11:12:01 yes, the library used a garbage RNG 11:12:18 regardless of whatever source it was 11:12:28 using a RNG not certified to be cryptographically secure is dumb 11:14:11 you get me? 11:15:03 ah I see what you're saying. That wasn't the only issue but yes, using the wrong RNG is bad 11:15:29 reading from /dev/random would have been a million times better 11:16:28 I like how Veracrypt prompts you to move your mouse for extra randomness 11:18:24 did they get the entropy from the system clock of all places? 11:18:43 like only the system clock? (that's why it's called "milk sad"?) 11:18:51 I thought milk sad was a fascinating read 11:19:50 I have to do some work, but good day to you all, keep your seed phrases handy! 11:20:29 keep em close keep em random 11:21:07 shit i read up most 11:21:09 more* 11:21:28 they fucking used a mersenne twister PRNG seeded on the CLOCK 11:21:43 this is the worst cryptographic design i've seen 11:22:00 so basically, i could compromise accounts if i knew at what time they were made 12:30:41 11:46:43 which only defend against typing the seed wrong, but doing no correction 12:30:52 there are some that can do error correction, but explicitly do not by default 12:31:07 they tell you that it's wrong, and show the possible errors 12:31:23 but they do not automatically correct by design, or you could never notice the error 12:47:07 DataHoarder: i think you'd notice the error if the paper was torn off or scribbled in a way 12:47:18 I mean, user writing it down wrongly 12:47:24 oh 12:47:29 or typos in words that convert them to others 12:47:40 though that is somewhat addressed by word selection and distance 13:19:06 Is monerod --enable-dns-blocklist supposed to work? I can't resolve any of the servers specified in the source code and get "WARNING: no two valid DNS TXT records were received". Turning off dnscrypt didn't help. 13:19:36 do you have dig installed? 13:19:47 Yup 13:20:51 try dig -t txt checkpoints.moneropulse.net +dnssec 13:21:24 you can add @8.8.8.8 or whatever to use a specific DNS server 13:22:08 That returned a bunch of stuff 13:22:38 ;; ANSWER SECTION: 13:22:38 checkpoints.moneropulse.net. 300 IN TXT "233000:4f69bec2af6c0852412bdd10c19e6af10c8d738fe2618b5511a98efd03ab477e" 13:22:38 And so on 13:23:10 did it also include a RRSIG? 13:23:37 like this 13:23:41 checkpoints.moneropulse.net. 300 INRRSIGTXT 13 3 300 20260120142112 20260118122112 34505 moneropulse.net. DyvIoxserEpmvGcxxGb82gY1NnZqChbimXfvNG/DnFdjx2Raoi3xqQdv 8ct62GrZNCqTEw+PERR4Y2dgMlfI5g== 13:24:02 Yeah it did 13:24:27 hm 13:35:11 Oh, hold on, I think dnscrypt-proxy was actually the problem 13:35:44 really? 13:36:06 Yeah, I configured it wrong. Turning off dnscrypt-proxy helped. There's an issue for it: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/9546 13:36:54 I guess the solution for now would be to download a local list? 13:37:03 or you could patch dnscrypt-proxy to accept a much bigger response 13:37:06 like 64K 13:37:52 That's true, but I don't feel like it 13:37:59 @maxlpm:tchncs.de: Or specify a dns env variable 13:38:17 How? 13:38:21 DNS env variable bypasses DoH 13:38:23 and DNSCrypt 13:38:25 Like DNS_PUBLIC=tcp://8.8.8.8 ./monerod ... 13:38:38 as a disclaimer 13:39:22 monerod uses DNS over TCP, so you could route it over tor 13:49:29 The env variable worked, I'll stick with it for now. Thanks y'all for the help! :D 15:34:10 docs.getmonero.org is down ? 15:36:01 @yokoama:matrix.org: It’s not working on my side either. 16:03:35 Yeah, it's down 16:07:29 plowsof: ^ 16:33:33 Thanks, checking 16:33:54 beta website deployments stopped as well 16:56:20 Does anybody know what happened to the Outreach workgroup? Their website is mentioned in the FAQ on getmonero but it's inaccessible, and all of their other stuff looks frozen in time 17:01:44 redsh4de yes i see deployments have failed , checking - docs has/had similar issues 17:06:49 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> @maxlpm:tchncs.de: coordinated marketing efforts are dead yes 17:07:41 Is there any specific reason? 17:10:46 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> no msgs since aug 4 '25, so effectively dead 17:12:00 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> oh moneromarketing at matrix.org is active, cool 17:12:02 methods for success: one, do not market. two, do not have a centralized board to go nuclear and kill the golden goose 17:12:44 three: say nothing. four: keep your seed phrase handy 17:40:51 why are there so many miku 17lifers in here??? 17:40:58 that’s kinda creepy 17:46:41 wtf is this domain 17:47:19 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> redundancy is important in federated services as one service can go down at any point 17:50:59 You don't need to explain that, I mean the domain name 18:00:02 <17lifers:mikuplushfarm.ovh> >.< 18:02:03 BlueyHealer: I just realized, shit... xDDD 18:13:49 hi, can someone help me with enabling dns block list on the gui 18:17:25 phantomphreak yes, are you running a local node that the gui controls? 18:22:54 yes 18:25:16 @plowsof whats a site i can copy the logs and send you the link to. 18:26:15 just add... --enable-dns-blocklist to daemon start up flags in settings -> node 18:26:53 thats where im getting an error 18:26:54 F Error starting server: Failed to bind IPv4 (set to required) 18:27:07 ah ok come to #monero-support 18:29:14 ok 20:09:07 hello, I see this answer from services when they are asked to accept Monero (or any other crypto). 20:09:07 > We would like to, but we don't have the resources to figure out the tax implications and implement it at the moment. 20:09:07 Is there a resource to point them to it? 20:12:09 Mhh, depends of the country, some countries for example enforce tax if you use crypto, like czechia (I heard this from a person I know) 20:12:27 but if they wanted to accept crypto they can just use cryptomus or heleket 20:13:10 IDK how true it is but Proton said they had to be audited, and that Monero is really frowned upon by such auditors. 20:13:32 Doesn't excuse them making a BTC wallet nobody asked for though... 20:14:41 @fijxu:nadeko.net: I think all countries treat crypto and money, were you have to report tax for it like any business so it is not only czechia 20:16:30 I mean having an extra tax on top if something is paid with crypto/ 20:37:58 basses: you don't have to worry about such a thing in the EU :P 20:38:25 exchanges don't want anything to do with Monero (because the EU breathes down their neck) 20:38:42 and most businesses usually use exchanges to conduct Monero transactions 20:39:18 so by extension, it'll be much much harder for businesses to accept Monero 20:39:29 because they don't know what to do with it 20:41:44 it's easier to say "oh we got DEXs, haveno and P2P and shit" 20:42:04 but businesses don't want to deal with those forms of coverting Monero to fiat because it's way too risky and unstable 20:47:11 ya converting xmr to fiat p2p as a function of your business would make you a MSB unless you are selling to a MSB 20:49:44 I think business would also have to be on the "cyberpunk" spectrum to adopt accepting payments in Monero. Not just supporting it as yet another payment option. 20:49:45 Mullvad VPN is based in Sweden and accept XMR. It's all about principles. 20:50:19 mullvad probably have their ways of converting the money into fiat 20:51:08 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I'm only a newcomer to the community but I really think this is how things will stay (probably for the better if I'm being honest). 20:51:26 businesses outside the EU are probably the only ones that can accept Monero as yet another payment method 20:51:38 because exchanges haven't delisted XMR for others 20:51:44 (other than canada) 20:52:02 the US still has exchanges that deal with Monero 20:52:02 > Mullvad VPN is based. It's all about principles. 20:53:12 Cindy: For now. 20:53:21