00:00:13 you can still do this in P2P exchanges 00:00:20 it's that, i doubt anyone will take you 00:00:27 from how risky in nature it is 00:00:35 good points all around. but what if there was a way to give the code to the p2p exchange first. is there a way for them to verify if has been used yet? if so, then maybe that could work like an escrow system. 00:00:42 only if someone is daring 00:00:55 no, there's no way to verify if it's been used 00:01:05 once you share it, how do you prevent them from spending it 00:01:09 and saying it was used 00:01:12 unless you mail the gift card to them, without ever scratching it off 00:01:21 and you might as well mail cash then 00:01:32 they can always lie and say it showed up scratched off 00:02:09 plus what if the giftcard was purchased with fraudulent funds like a stolen CC 00:02:23 and then it's revocked a few weeks later by the victim 00:02:36 that's even worse 00:02:38 just stick to irreversible transaction methods when buying or selling crypto 00:02:43 BoBeR182: ok. I didnt' think about that actually. 00:03:04 so if the fcmp transactions are 7.2 kb and the block size is still at 300 then it's cooked in terms of tps right? <<>> the non penalty block size will increase with FCMP++ but I forget the exact # 00:03:13 you're asking for no-KYC (so anyone can spin up new accounts) and a high fraud rate (giftcards) 00:03:16 bad idea 00:03:24 we've had someone here who asked if they could do CCs in P2P 00:03:24 nioc: 625kb 00:03:35 meow 00:03:37 and stated that they owned the card (yeah right) 00:03:37 Cindy: you can, but they usually have high af fees 00:03:45 and force every protection like 3ds etc 00:03:47 that was super suspicious 00:03:53 2fa codes to the phone number etc 00:03:57 to prevent stolen CCs 00:03:58 also this guy said he had an american credit card 00:04:01 but sometimes spoke russian 00:04:10 i was thinking he just stole a credit card 00:04:11 yea, just move on 00:04:27 Cindy: we have russians here, we have everybody here 00:04:44 some users are bilingual 00:04:56 will cake wallet (or some other service) let you buy some other altcoins from them directly with a prepaid card? then just swap to XMR? 00:04:56 I wouldn't instantly attribute a subset of languages to fraud 00:05:03 some humans even lurk here 00:05:08 meow 00:05:29 just use a KYC creditcard > BTC , then a noKYC btc > xmr 00:05:38 anything else is dumber and risky 00:05:43 BoBeR182: your exchange account will get frozen 00:05:58 wut? 00:06:06 move the BTC to your phone frist 00:06:13 then move to over P2P to someone else 00:06:18 how will that freeze your exchange account 00:06:38 even if that person uses the BTC on a honeypot darknetmarket 00:06:39 they can freeze you from ever buying BTC :P 00:06:43 it's 2 + hopes away from you 00:06:54 why would a KYC stop your from buying BTC? 00:07:02 that's literally how they make their money 00:07:15 CEXs like to track down where you send your BTC to 00:07:17 and when it ends up 00:07:22 if it ends up something bad, you get incriminated 00:07:34 but any BTC can do that 00:07:38 exactly 00:07:48 they clearly accept the risk 00:08:02 you don't heard normie users having exchanges frozen from normal transactions 00:08:09 so why would yours be any different 00:08:26 you bought BTC with a credit card, moved it to a personal wallet, then moved it to a p2p exchange 00:08:38 you could even move it to another CEX and buy XMR directly 00:08:43 then move the XMR to a phone wallet 00:08:47 and trail is gone 00:08:56 just don't do XMR > illegal service 00:09:09 just don't do CEX XMR wallet > illegal service wallet 00:09:46 👮 illegal service sir? no thank you 00:10:06 if you're trying to avoid the risk of someone else illegal activities tainting yoru coins, just bump to your own wallet first to "clean" or deattach them from previous history 00:10:11 XMR is great for that 00:10:17 because the BTC blockchain is transparent. chain analysis would be able to determine where the BTC is going (to be swapped for XMR) even if its a few hops. if a user does this over and over, it might come off as suspicious. thats probably when the kyc account gets flagged/frozen. > how will that freeze your exchange account 00:10:38 buying XMR isn't illegal? 00:10:52 unless it is in your juristriction then you have other issues like talking in a #monero channel 00:11:13 most CEX even allow buying XMR directly 00:11:15 just do that? 00:13:04 Buying xmr isnt the problem 00:13:46 Its depositing no-kyc btc, mixed, dirty, tainted, racist, terrorist btc 00:14:17 BoBeR182: sure, some CEXs allow this. but i've always wondered: wouldn't this make you suspicious to the government from the beginning? if you use a CEX KYC exchange and buy XMR directly. now the government knows you have XMR. regardless of whatever your plans are with it, they KNOW you have it. i feel like even that is a risk. 00:14:46 exchanges that deal in surveillance blockchains, are often mandated to perform dragnet surveillance on the coins that you deposit or withdraw 00:15:23 @cranial_luminance:matrix.org: Who cares? Im allowed to have xmr, gold, silver, a per rock collection, or whatever i feel like 00:15:37 What im not allowed to do, is be in posession of stolen goods (tainted btc) 00:20:42 "Who cares?" is a fair question. but lets be honest with ourselves here: 1. the government probably does care, even if they don't admit it, and we should assume they do care. 2. if we had the choice between buying XMR directly from a KYC CEX or getting as anonymously as possible to where not even the government knows we have i [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/hNP8tt8KZkhrd3A4 ] 00:21:24 just throwing ideas out there 00:23:01 ofrnxmr: "Who cares?" the EU certainly does care 00:23:11 2027 2027 2027 2027 00:23:19 the gov doesn't care about you buying, it cares about you selling 00:23:35 no it cares about both 00:23:49 @kiersten5821:matrix.org: for now. but remember: laws change 00:33:59 you talk about "the govt" as it was one entity 00:34:12 the US government might care under one department the IRS 00:34:34 but if you are using you wageslave job to fund buying XMR, and never bring XMR into your CEX and trade for fiat 00:34:46 there's no reason to think you are running a business and evading taxes 00:35:05 the FBI/etc might care about your XMR if you buy lots and are associated with drug dealing 00:35:15 the EU cares now 00:35:22 but generally speaking investing in crypto both private and nonprivacy isn't illegal 00:35:32 they are planning to ban anyone from accepting anonymity-preserving coins 00:35:34 as long as you pay any capital gains or business income tax on it 00:35:37 which includes monero 00:35:47 Cindy: plan to, and have banned isn't the same 00:35:50 why am i seing planning 00:35:51 saying* 00:36:03 still multiple governments exists that have to work with multiple CEXs 00:36:03 their deadline is 2027 00:36:07 it's not one magic database 00:36:25 when 2027 hits, they will start enforcing the ban 00:36:32 so right now, the ban is just for show 00:36:33 each access for information will require a warrant, or at least an analyst to approve a "national security warrentless look" 00:36:53 all that still requires work and effort 00:36:58 others have a different opinion about what will happen in 2027 00:37:13 superintelligent AI will take over the world 00:37:18 you can use XMR openly and not break the law 00:37:22 look at mullvad 00:37:25 they accept XMR 00:37:29 over a .onion at that 00:37:36 and they have no magical govt raids 00:38:27 what does superintelligent AI think about monero? 00:38:34 why don't you ask it? 00:38:44 it doesn't exist 00:39:07 monero not existing seems like the perfect usecase 00:39:11 however I can ask Cat 00:39:22 govt: where are you hiding your funds!!! 00:39:25 me: it doesn't exist 00:40:02 but I already know what Cat thinks about meownero 00:42:19 meow? 00:42:34 does anyone have a good source on monero propaganda art 00:42:39 looking to expand my collection 00:47:49 monero makes Cat feel quite secure 00:48:11 also loves mining during cold weather 00:48:27 That sounds enjoyable 00:48:37 meow 00:48:42 :) 00:48:47 meow nioc 00:48:57 Better than to waste other stuff when you could compute 00:48:59 I can mine more during summer because more sun 00:49:15 40C ambiant is so nice :D 00:49:38 @ravfx:xmr.mx: I'd probably die 00:50:24 Battery health is good, I want my lifepo4 to outlast me. 00:50:24 Mining is how my battery dont get to 100% at 10am 01:06:44 BoBeR182: I think you're missing my point. let me clarify. Yes, i'm aware that in many places its perfectly legal to use XMR for legitimate purposes. But my point is that this could change at any time, look at the EU (as Cindy pointed out) Therefore, it would be logical to be prepared for these things in advanced. and one of [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/7ZuluN8KVERhVkRO ] 01:07:50 buy any legal crypto coin via KYC or p2p 01:07:57 exchange for XMR on a noKYC platform 01:08:10 that's all you have to really do 01:16:41 BoBeR182: ok, but wouldn't cash by mail be even more anonymous? or gift card to XMR (assuming everyone can trust each other). I'm curious to see how far this can go. what is the ultimate paranoid way? maybe just mine it in that case? but then the electric company might ask what you're doing to use up so much electricity. 01:19:32 Get offgrid, get solar panels and batteries, make electricity for yourself, with love 01:20:45 @ravfx:xmr.mx: Now we're talking! 01:24:33 ultimate paranoia way would be sending gps coordinates through pgp encryption or similar, then meeting up using cold storage wallets and doing a XMR for non-traceable bills 01:24:34 xd 01:28:51 sponkz: hmmmmm, this might work. just gotta make sure you're dealing with a trustworthy person. but i like the way you think! 01:31:29 "trust me bro" 01:31:30 :D 01:31:58 best face-to-face trades should be done in public places like a mcdonalds or starbucks :p 02:55:17 <321bob321> You also get food out of it