11:44:21 cool, seems like my countries banks are preventing transfers to DFX... looks like i have to find an alternative 12:09:10 retoswap.com 12:09:41 retoswap is not a good place if you're just looking to do a small trade 12:09:49 like 100 dollars or so small trade 12:11:54 haveno only has big offers tbh, i wish it could replace CEXs like localmonero could 12:18:56 wrong 12:18:57 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/JgLJZXZEYweLWalcpVsTCiBw.png (image.png) 12:19:02 youre just looking in the wrong place 12:20:15 monerobull: what are the payment methods 12:21:20 revolut, wise, cashapp, even pay by mail for the GBP one 12:21:44 is that screenshot from inside reto? 12:22:05 idk who the fuck would bother with a 57 pound pay by mail offer but it is an option 12:22:15 btcdwed: yeah, from the no deposit page 12:22:19 thx 12:22:26 so literally nothing usable for direct international payment 12:22:38 except cashapp, but that's probably US-only 12:23:22 yeah cashapp is not a thing in EU at least 12:23:57 i want moneygram, western union or other forms of payment where i can at least get the payment in cash directly 12:24:44 Cindy_: bro just join the simplex and ask for someone to make a trade then 12:24:47 or post your own offers 12:25:09 "it literally doesnt have the specific payment method and amount i want, USELESS 💢" 12:25:57 localmonero had a lot of western union offers 12:26:06 for small amounts even 12:26:09 MG and WU would be cool 12:26:11 i get it, they're not the same :P 12:26:16 isnt western union just a bank trasnfer 12:26:19 Moneygram would be interesting. Haven't hears about those in a while though. > i want moneygram, western union or other forms of payment where i can at least get the payment in cash directly 12:26:20 no 12:26:32 WU and MG are both bank transfer or direct cash payment 12:26:38 yea 12:26:44 you don't have to have a bank account to use MG or WU 12:26:46 you can make a request to the haveno repo 12:26:52 Its like hawala with kyc 12:26:55 ... they already exist in haveno? 12:26:59 you literally can just do things 12:27:00 it's just that nobody is making an offer wth them 12:27:19 then post a buy offer with an attractive premium? 12:27:27 i guess 12:27:42 @monerobull:matrix.org: this is how we got no deposit offers 12:27:51 i was going through the bisq code and they had comments on it 12:28:05 Cindy_: I live in a pretty low kyc region.. Wonder if I can set something up. 12:28:08 and i proposed a design to woodser and the GOAT that he is, implemented it 12:29:02 I forgot how much information WU/MG ask. 12:30:39 WU asks for your ID when you're sending money 12:30:47 and the real first/last name and country of the person you're sending to 12:31:13 ID for recipient ? 12:31:50 on the receiver side, you have to give your ID to the teller too yeah 12:31:58 they just verify and then give it back 12:33:15 If the only thing they log is the name then it's not too bad. 12:33:40 yeah they just check the name 12:35:28 they dont actually take a picture of your ID, at least in my branch they didn't 12:35:37 if you're worried about that :P 12:35:46 though i have heard depending on your branch, they do that 13:08:59 100 dollars... small... LOL 13:12:27 100 dollars was a generous amount 13:12:39 considering the really small ones dont exist at all in haveno 13:12:45 like 20 bucks 13:13:51 use instant swappers for that? 13:14:19 nobody will bother selling you $20 worth of monero 13:14:29 But first you need to get the crypto to swap from. Or Bisq is better in this regard? 13:14:55 Like, I don't even HAVE $100 in my savings, let alone being able to RISK it 13:14:59 bisq minimums are 2-3 times as high 13:15:26 youll have to buy LTC on some CEX or something 13:15:54 being poor is expensive 13:16:36 oh 13:16:58 But CEXes are dangerous and this is the whole reason for those DEXs... 13:17:20 Bisq is only really usable for ammounts 4f or above 13:17:30 And bisq2? 13:17:35 Any less than that you are out of luck 13:17:58 So someone mentioned a Simplex chat of it - is that better? 13:21:06 Of what 13:25:29 BlueyHealer: you can ask people to post offers there 13:48:25 Never used so curious - how likely are they to be answered in practice? Like, do a lot of people check buy offers? 15:02:08 on haveno can you usually ask for a smaller value? in euro the no deposit options are quite a high amount 15:02:55 or the value asked is "set in stone"? 15:07:22 @alexandre:uii.pt: Yes 15:07:35 The range* is set in stone 15:08:05 (by the offer maker) 17:02:18 I'm really surprised openalias isn't used that much. Wrote a simple openalias resolver that I just recently put online. https://api.lunar.sh/bin/openresolve feedback welcome 17:03:53 dmlunar: Any dns / 3rd party resolver hampers privacy 17:04:13 Should be disabled by default on” privacy” first wallets. 17:05:01 I just use it because it makes remembering addresses easier. 17:22:14 openalias is pretty cool 17:22:21 wtf is pubiq back at it? 17:22:23 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/oblak.be/vQvdnifHiyQGQEJzFjlQwwDO.png (image.png) 17:22:31 wow 17:23:19 not again bro.. 17:24:00 Not sure if it's just a fake number but.. 17:24:55 The qubic price is sort of at an all time low 17:26:52 the latest mined blocks don't look like they have 5.5 GH/s 17:27:04 they get 20-25% of blocks, no more 17:28:37 indeed, I was looking at it now 17:28:47 sech1: so they're faking their stats again 17:28:51 when will they learn their lesson lol 17:28:59 but why are they still doing this, .. 17:29:07 their shitcoin flat-lined 17:29:43 they need to revive it before it becomes truly dead 17:29:58 dmlunar: Save it in address book of your wallet. 17:31:13 @intr:unredacted.org: They are here to save market price, exchanges will increase deposit conf to 720 again 😅 17:32:00 sech1: How can they get this high hashrate ? 17:32:37 sech1: monero ocean reports ~6GH/s as total hashrate 17:33:03 They don't have this hashrate 17:33:12 They just say they do (in pool API) 17:33:42 https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/WDcVvoJIcwWRWcJBRHPprrNb.png (share_5162208600881151265.png) 17:34:54 Since they started hiding their data, hashrate has gone up and up but thought they were done with the publicity stunts 17:35:43 yeah there's nothing about this "campaign" on their twitter afaik 17:36:04 Silent advertising, unfortunately for them it won't work again 17:37:10 Get them what they want, the exposure for their behavior is just going to back fire 17:42:33 Say you're qubic and there is enough liquidity in XMR and hyperliquid. What would stop you funding a campaign to do a selfish mining and/or reject tx in blocks and shorting monero as people have some fear? 17:44:45 @quadriocellata:matrix.org: It’s a known issue, a look is coming out soon 17:46:37 Just a final stroke before fading away 17:46:45 @elongated:matrix.org: Is the book also about general network disruption ? (e.g. publishing empty blocks). Could you provide a brief outline as to the topics that will be covered in it or do you have a link about that? 17:47:47 @quadriocellata:matrix.org: https://ccs.getmonero.org/proposals/kayabaNerve-finality-layer-book.html 17:47:51 @xmr2cex:unredacted.org: Surely coming at a good time, since many are looking at the price go down and aren't happy 17:47:59 Or have fear of some sort 17:49:00 But it's inevitable, NGU and then go down. Usual roller-coaster we are used to. Crypto bros just love to the see the green candle and cry when it's all red... 18:38:39 why are you entertaining qubic's fake hashrate 18:38:48 it's an API, they can report whatever hashrate they want 18:38:59 hell they could even report 100 GH/s 18:39:29 qubic has only gotten 7% of the last 1000 blocks 18:41:39 what's the tl;dr on a "finality layer" anyway? 18:42:01 prevents reorgs 18:42:16 yes, but how 18:42:23 if that's possible in a tl;dr fashion 18:46:00 @intr:unredacted.org: we are waiting for the book 18:46:23 yeah, but I figured that's for the finer details and cryptography 18:52:36 @intr:unredacted.org: By using POS 18:52:38 thanks 18:52:38 but no thanks 18:53:03 The book isnt jusy about the POS finality layer, but comparing different ways to have finality or increase security 18:53:44 ahh I see 18:54:23 I'm not against the idea itself but POS isn't something I'd be happy to see introduced in Monero, in any capacity 18:58:09 @intr:unredacted.org: if it only secures chain & you are able to spend received coins/change outout after say 2 block conf ? 18:58:10 pow still creates blocks 18:59:14 pow is what should be securing the chain, anything else delves into semantics and it becomes a POS coin with extra steps 18:59:46 true 19:00:04 @intr:unredacted.org: okay, then we should move to 15min conf like bitcoin and have actual asics mining & not allow random hardware to be used to mine/attack xmr 19:00:38 no thanks, easier for a gov't to take control of 19:00:44 as happened to bitcoin 19:01:00 @intr:unredacted.org: fcmp++ fails with 2block reorg 19:01:38 that's why the 10 block lock stays, no? 19:02:29 not that I'm happy with it 19:02:36 @intr:unredacted.org: every tx sent will get invalidated if there is 10+ block reorg 19:02:42 I just don't see PoS or asics as a solution 19:02:56 easy to attack xmr 19:03:02 @intr:unredacted.org: you can see, you dont want to see 19:03:35 🥱 I think it's better to wait for the book than these non arguments 19:04:07 @intr:unredacted.org: yah we should increase it to 60 block reorg & just wait for attacker to breach it 19:04:20 thank you for the example of a non argument 19:04:51 @intr:unredacted.org: you can try hide from pos, but its best way to secure the chain by stake holders 19:05:10 one example was enough, but thanks 19:05:17 okay then here's a question yokoama 19:05:23 who's going to get the newly-minted coins? 19:05:39 the CPU mining was designed to egalitarian 19:05:43 was designed to be* 19:05:50 Cindy: smal part to pos, rest pow 19:06:00 PoS just guarantees a stable source of new coins to the richest people of XMR 19:06:41 Cindy: yah there is massive emission 19:07:53 /s 19:08:11 0.6 XMR per block is a lot 19:08:33 Cindy: you are not paying 0.6 to pos 19:08:36 and guess what, in a fully PoS system, the richest would get 90% of that 19:08:39 really? 19:09:10 Cindy: who is proposing full POS ? 19:09:30 read the room "finality layer" 19:09:41 i saw " you can try hide from pos, but its best way to secure the chain by stake holders" 19:10:00 Cindy: It is best way to secure the chain 19:10:31 how much of a slice does the PoS layer get 19:10:58 Cindy: i dont decide, but 10-20% of emission would be more than enough 19:11:46 that sounds good 19:11:50 10% 19:12:13 it shouldnt be more than that to preserve the egalitarianism of CPU mining 19:12:58 realistically even with PoW resources will get kinda centralized even with cpu imo , if monero ever got big enough ppl close to the electricity companies and chip making companies (and with resource for land), would be in a much better position to make money 19:13:46 in fact in that regard, you might be better off with PoS bc at least its proportional to your stake 19:13:57 unless I am misunderstanding something 19:14:00 there is a cost to PoW though 19:14:16 maintainence, energy costs (even if you had a deal, its not 100% free) 19:14:39 you need to get close to the CPU companies, not chip making companies 19:15:03 even with that, you need the motherboards for those CPUs, and 4 GB+ of RAM 19:15:15 per each board 19:15:49 botnets! 19:15:56 sure there is a cost thats right, but those who will make a profit will likely be already wealthy people 19:16:05 it's a question of "how much CPUs and RAMs and shit can you buy before people start to hate you and you'll probably go bankrupt anyway 19:16:22 PoS has little to no cost 19:16:31 you could literally host it on a potato computer running off of solar power 19:16:41 all that matters, in PoS, is how RICH you are 19:17:04 Cindy: yah you acquired monero for free 19:17:24 who do you think has the most monero right now 19:17:31 if everyone could stake wouldn't it just make your money not devalue over time? 19:17:39 @intr:unredacted.org: miners 19:18:00 (gubmint) 19:18:17 the point i'm making is PoW's cost is massive compared to PoS 19:18:40 and it'll only increase exponentially to your hashrate 19:18:45 (unless you host botnets i guess) 19:18:59 PoS in the other hand has no costs 19:19:10 the costs don't even increase proportional to your stake 19:19:14 it remains constant 19:19:16 @intr:unredacted.org: lol, on paper; if they ever try to access it; they are already lost in boating accident 19:19:31 I dont understand why rich people wouldnt be able to profit more from PoW vs PoS , where anyone could stake, but potentially it can be difficult for some people to do PoW profitably 19:19:34 gubmint hoards bitcoin too 19:19:50 anyone can stake 19:19:52 but they won't get shit 19:20:01 they'll get fractions of fractions of fractions of a penny 19:20:08 acquiring monero has costs attached to it, if you are no coiner then you think its not worth anything > PoS in the other hand has no costs 19:20:15 while the rich get much more than they do 19:20:28 but cindy as a % of supply 19:20:30 its all the same 19:20:36 @intr:unredacted.org: those cant be spent, as its can be monitored 19:20:39 so who cares if the rich get more, they dont in real terms ? 19:20:40 PoS only exclusively benefits rich people 19:20:49 while PoW could potentially 19:20:49 inflation adjusted* 19:20:51 @yokoama:matrix.org: who gives a shit lmao, it's the government 19:20:53 what are you gonna do 19:21:00 before you do anything they'll have already taken control over the coin 19:21:14 same with asic farms 19:21:16 @quadriocellata:matrix.org: even if they get rich, they are getting rich by securing the chain for everyone 19:21:25 it's either "maybe the rich will profit off of it" or "100% they'll profit off of it" 19:21:46 @intr:unredacted.org: you can live in fear 19:21:47 yokoama: who gets the emissions though 19:21:55 I am currently living in laughter 19:21:58 the newly-minted coins 19:22:12 Cindy: 10% pos 90% pow 19:22:13 the poor get barely nothing, while the rich will hoard and HODL XMR 19:22:19 please explain to me how the rich actually get richer from pos, if everyone was staking most of their coins, isn't it the case that inflation adjusted everyone remains in the same place ? > it's either "maybe the rich will profit off of it" or "100% they'll profit off of it" 19:22:27 yeah but we're talkling about full PoS now 19:22:34 :P 19:22:45 Cindy: i see the left 19:23:01 how about we burn old mined coins ? 19:23:16 quadriocellata: because staking has a minimum limit anyway 19:23:19 not everyone can stake 19:23:37 just look at ETH, you need to have 32 ETH minimum to stake 19:23:42 Best to start with scratch ? 19:23:59 Cindy: yah XMR currently costs $1000 and you cannot afford it 19:24:47 Serious no coiners are trying to derail securing of chain, proably are from the feds 19:24:58 i'd like PoS to be 10% 19:25:00 or less 19:25:34 Cindy: Nobody is proposing 90% pos 19:25:50 quadriocellata's making me think otherwise :P 19:25:54 for some reason 19:26:27 Okay 19:26:30 Cindy: just thinking about it 19:26:31 GN 19:26:36 night yokoama 19:26:38 not proposing 100% pos 19:26:46 gn 19:27:11 just curious as monero will get larger , why power wouldnt centralize and PoW would actually become more profitable for rich guys than poor 19:27:24 Guys how does qubic hash such high hashrate? 19:27:30 because PoW has more associated costs with it than PoS 19:27:34 qubic hashrate is fake 19:27:36 ommanipadmehumom: fake API 19:27:40