01:02:06 <br-m> <tuw:matrix.org> posted this on reddit/r/monero the other day and it was deleted by a moderator within 5 minutes 
01:02:06 <br-m> <tuw:matrix.org> https://monero.forum/thread/save-xmr-wagyu-buy-cex-sell-dex
01:03:19 <br-m> <tuw:matrix.org> X seems the most active
12:21:05 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Hi, I'm a cybersecurity student working on an OPSEC assignment about setting up an anonymous crypto wallet. I am first trying to figure out in what way I could best prepare my device to stay anonymous. Would you guys use an OS like Tails for e.g. + Tor + free vpn + on a public network? Or is even this not truly anonymous? Of c [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/1aGnyvIKTm0taWZ4 ]
13:00:49 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: You mean a monero wallet or a different crypto wallet? Using a vpn with tor is not officially recommended and I would not recommend it either unless it's your own VPN you trust. If your only goal is to have an anonymous monero wallet you can do so without tor or vpn it will still be anonymous but in s [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/iv64y_IKWmhfT2tG ]
13:06:09 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Oh and yes tails with encrypted persistant storage + monero is a simple and easy setup that works.
13:10:13 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Thanks! So to fully anonymously make and use a Monero wallet it looks like: Tails + Tor + Monero wallet? Couldn't a government for e.g. (in theory) still track down the location of where I am at, because there are also Tor nodes owned by the U.S. government right? and they are constantly trying to trace people back through the network? 
13:10:39 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> And do you think Monero is the best wallet for pure anonimity?
13:12:16 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> monero is a blockchain, or a coin, not a wallet ❤️
13:13:09 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> There are various wallets which can hold monero (getmonero.org/downloads), and each have their own level of privacy/anonymity built in
13:14:41 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Some only use tor (anonero), some have tor built in (but optional, stack wallet, cake wallet, feather wallet), some allow using tor or i2p (monfluo, cake wallet, feather, monero cli, monero gui), etc
13:14:59 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Sorry yeah my fault :), but do you think there are other alternatives for Menore that provide more anonimity (for transactions) or is Monero basically top of the line?
13:15:27 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> You mean , other blockchains? 
13:15:36 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> yup
13:15:45 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> thank you for the insights btw?
13:16:01 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> !*
13:16:42 <br-m> <iamnew117:matrix.org> there are many privacy focused coins like Zcash , DASH etc  > <@dopper01:matrix.org> And do you think Monero is the best wallet for pure anonimity?
13:16:42 <br-m> <iamnew117:matrix.org> but i think Monero tops all
13:17:09 <br-m> <iamnew117:matrix.org> i meant to reply to this msg my bad > <@dopper01:matrix.org> Sorry yeah my fault :), but do you think there are other alternatives for Menore that provide more anonimity (for transactions) or is Monero basically top of the line?
13:17:56 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Lets use 2 examples: zano and zcash.
13:17:56 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> zano: does not support subaddresses and the nodes do not support proxying / tor by default. This leads to trivial correlation between using the same wallet with various services
13:17:56 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> zcash: a bitcoin fork, most wallets use (afaik) a small selection of electrum servers, which trivially can monitor the balances of your T addresses and correlate your Z transactions to the same user
13:18:49 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Dash is also some of the weakest privacy in the space. Essentially a low/near zero volume mixer when you opt in
13:19:30 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Litecoin mweb is better than dash 
13:19:45 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> > <@dopper01:matrix.org> Thanks! So to fully anonymously make and use a Monero wallet it looks like: Tails + Tor + Monero wallet? Couldn't a government for e.g. (in theory) still track down the location of where I am at, because there are also Tor nodes owned by the U.S. government right? and they are constantly trying to trace people back through the network? 
13:19:45 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> I think even if you by chance connect to tor over 3 government spy nodes what do they get except that you are connecting to a monero node. From your perspective as a cyber security student you can still look into stuff like packet size analysis/timing etc that they can do then but even then monero itself is still private. If y [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/rrX-y_IKNk9KLW9P ]
13:21:11 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: If you're using an onion, they dont know what you connected to
13:22:55 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Yes if you are connecting to the node via tor they can't get your ip so it's not that big of a deal to use "hostile" monero nodes. I was assuming a full compromisse tor of all 3 tor nodes ^
13:24:07 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Its still a big deal to use hostile monero nodes. You can lose $
13:24:22 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe you meant hostile tor nodes?
13:25:05 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: the only thing in that case is that i would worry about them being able to track me somehow
13:27:11 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I'm not aware that a hostile node can take your monero in any way.
13:28:20 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> brb
13:29:00 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/8134
13:30:05 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > with a 3.93xmr transaction fee
13:30:13 <br-m> <lactunatic:matrix.org> Hi, if run an onion node on whonix, do I have to enable the ban list too?
13:30:19 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> > 3.93 xmr transaction fee for .34 transaction seems way to high and hopefully this is something that does not happen ever to anyone else.. it was 800 dollars approximately transaction fee for a 70 dollar transaction..
13:32:16 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> https://monero.observer/pacificnwvet-pays-3.93-xmr-fee-0.34-xmr-transaction/
13:32:52 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @lactunatic:matrix.org: Its a good idea, yea
13:35:15 <br-m> <lactunatic:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: I mean I only see clearnet IP adresses there. Do I not stay in the onion network, if I use a onion node? Or do I understand sonething wrong?
13:35:43 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Of those wallets you mentioned, which would you actually recommend for someone prioritizing anonymity on Tails? Feather seems popular, but of course popularity doesn't mean its always the best
13:37:14 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> official gui and cli always worked for me
13:38:26 <btcdwed> anyone has a list of so called "trusted nodes" ?
13:39:20 <btcdwed> https://github.com/feather-wallet/feather/blob/a7f2ea5efbb4d3dbd82eab6b68ef4d1ac0a15f04/src/assets/nodes.json#L25
13:39:28 <btcdwed> last entry is ~1yr old
13:39:35 <btcdwed> would be cool to have an updates list, thx
13:50:53 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> And when running Tails specifically, which wallet would you recommend Feather, official GUI, or CLI? And does it even matter for anonymity which one I pick?
13:51:44 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> btcdwed: That list is up to date
13:51:54 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @dopper01:matrix.org: feather
13:51:56 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: unless any of them are compromissed I don't think there is any difference for anonymity maybe make sure whatever you choose supports tor
13:52:01 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or cli
13:52:34 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @lactunatic:matrix.org: Yeah, wrong. Monero node requires connections to clearnet ip addresses
13:54:21 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Any specifc reasons for feather or CLI over official GUI?
14:10:59 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Gui is more geared to desktop users
14:11:00 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> feather and cli are lightweight
14:11:04 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> if you like cli use cli if you like official gui use it and if you prefer feather gui use that personally have never used feather so idk what is the difference
14:12:40 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> ahh ok so more just personal preference
14:12:42 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> I love cli ahaha
14:12:51 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> So cli it is
14:18:47 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> So now once i have the wallet setup, what is the best way to actually get XMR into it without KYC? Are p2p exchanges like Haveno still the best way, or are they also not fully anonymous anymore?
14:21:35 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> if you already have other cryptos you can use those on an exchange you like once you are in monero you are anonymous anything before expect to be tracked
14:24:43 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> i have bought crypto on regular exchanges with KYC's, but to my understanding, exchanging Monero there loses me anonimity?
14:29:00 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: if you for example buy xmr on that exchange and then send it to your own wallet once you are in you have your privacy. But let's say you keep it on the exchange and use the exchange to send some XMR to a "criminal" and that criminal gets caught and they get acces to his wallet then they could prove you sent him that monero.
14:30:26 <btcdwed> ofrnxmr:xmr.mx thx!
14:36:13 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: and so basically there is no way to be able for anyone to track that i once bought the monero on the exchange (where i did the kyc)?
14:37:15 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> The exchange know you bought monero but once you have it in your own wallet you are good
14:37:35 <nioc> Wallets don't hold monero, they hold keys to the blockchain where all coins reside 
14:40:19 <nioc> *your keys
14:40:54 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> and if you and your associates encrypt your storage with a strong password they can raid and seize whatever they want as long as you got a backup of your seed encrypted in a 3rd location it's all good
14:41:05 <btcdwed> true
14:41:12 <btcdwed> thats the way!
14:41:12 <btcdwed> :P
14:43:52 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> sounds good! thanks!
14:45:20 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> one more question, but this might be a dumb one because of my lack of knowledge. what if for eg the government would gain access to my exchange account, wouldnt they be able to track down to which wallet the monero was sent to so they can connect my identity to the (previously) anonymous wallet?
14:46:51 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: unless the get the view key or the seed phrase of you monero wallet there is no way to link it to your identity that's why you need encryption with a strong password and not leave your pc on unattended
14:49:34 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: they can track it depending on who you send the money to because of the 16 member ring sigs
14:50:09 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> there should be a lot of articles about this called "eae" or "eabe" attack
14:51:44 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> if "anon00123" pays me 3x and i check the members of the sigs and in all 3 payments there are outputs withdrawn from kraken by john kyc then i know you are john kyc
14:52:22 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> because for that to occur by chance the probability is almost 0
14:53:46 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Worse: if you combine the out0uts in a single tx
14:53:52 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Outputs
14:57:26 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> > <@assholeorangecat:matrix.org> if you for example buy xmr on that exchange and then send it to your own wallet once you are in you have your privacy. But let's say you keep it on the exchange and use the exchange to send some XMR to a "criminal" and that criminal gets caught and they get acces to his wallet then they could prove you sent him that monero.
14:57:26 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> This scenario is only if you use a fed wallet like a wallet from a CEX, right ?
15:00:56 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: yes only if you use the wallet the exchnage is managing for you that's why once you have it in your own wallet there is really nothing to worry about
15:09:53 <br-m> <plowsof:matrix.org> " I'm a cybersecurity student working on an OPSEC assignment about setting up an anonymous crypto wallet." really?
15:16:51 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org: It's like asking about torrenting to seed Linux ISOs.
15:19:18 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> 🤣🤣🤣 
15:19:24 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> its true tho
15:19:54 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/tuZuADmrsjcvjUCBmbEbSTbr.png (image.png)
15:31:26 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Also one more question hahaha: Are there any non KYC ways to get XMR directly? Like Haveno, mining? Or will I still have to have some kind of identification for it? If not, does anyone have experience with non KYC exchanges for Monero?
15:32:21 <br-m> <plowsof:matrix.org> 🥱
15:33:33 <whatsayjose1980> br-m  volume are we looking at? for the nonkyc Monero?
15:34:48 <br-m> <iamnew117:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: https://kycnot.me/
15:35:28 <br-m> <dopper01:matrix.org> Thanks!
15:37:16 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @plowsof:matrix.org: I tend to skip the "about me" section when ppl send messages
15:37:54 <plowsof> good advice lol
15:38:53 <btcdwed> :D
15:55:19 <alem> how do i connect to a remote onion node on monero wallet cli? I tried with `torify ./monero-wallet-cli --daemon-address`, is it correct?
15:57:08 <alem> it's synching but it's extremely slow, way slower than on feather wallet
16:40:39 <plowsof> feather wallet has an option to sync over clearnet to speed it up 
16:41:22 <plowsof> https://docs.getmonero.org/running-node/monerod-tori2p/#__tabbed_4_2 alem "--proxy"
16:42:00 <alem> @plowsof is there any way to do the same via cli?
16:42:20 <plowsof> nvm
16:44:24 <plowsof> i dont know if 'using the cli without tor while the wallet syncs' then restarting with --proxy is the same effect
16:56:23 <alem> yeah, i noticed that the sync is independent of the cli session, how does this work? Why is my "height" not resetting when i close the cli/change node?
16:59:10 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> Protip for cybersecurity students: you can use anonymous messaging services like the Monero SimpleX group or image boards if those have a Monero space to ask your questions. Nobody in the community cares about one's credentials. > <@dopper01:matrix.org> its true tho
18:12:29 <br-m> <hypermind:matrix.org> @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Thank you for the pro tip
19:01:13 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> @dopper01:matrix.org: dude it just says make a wallet not put any funds in it lmfao
19:01:50 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> 😂
19:11:52 <plowsof> Someone who isnt me (SWIM) is a cybersecurity student (IACS) and said thanks for the tip pyratevevo
20:48:45 <ocrn> WARNING: Don't run Python PIP LLM AI Slop "LiteLLM". The latest versions contain malware introduced via supply-chain attack which will drain your wallets
20:48:53 <ocrn> https://github.com/BerriAI/litellm/issues/24512
21:43:08 <plowsof> Comments from ai agents getting thumbed down? 
21:52:33 <ocrn> GitHub issue thread likely getting spammed by compromised accounts controlled by the threat actor in order to slow down those trying to coordinate to shutdown the exploit