02:42:47 <br-m> <bad757newzcoming4u:matrix.org> Dogs arent bark ;)
02:43:50 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> Cindy: Dogs aren't barking ;)
02:44:13 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> 👍 
02:44:35 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> why the ping?
02:44:59 <br-m> <bad757newzcoming4u:matrix.org> Uh fluffy chat appears bugged
02:45:15 <br-m> <bad757newzcoming4u:matrix.org> Disgrard my apologies
02:46:06 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> Would it help if I said I ordered a meal for two in a purple grape mustang at tacobell for my vacation in Italy? 
02:46:18 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> Lol
02:46:59 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> 👍🏻
02:47:05 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> No barks 
07:31:35 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> Monero GUI is coming to Alpine
07:31:48 <br-m> <ravfx:xmr.mx> https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/xmr.mx/KXDORSPaOfrgPFcNxBIcsItZ.png (clipboard.png)
12:52:25 <br-m> <svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> > <@midipoet:matrix.org> This is a good read. I recently co-authored a paper that supports a slightly different hypothesis (i.e., Monero price was significantly impacted by delistings). We also provide statistical analysis aligned with pretty robust methodology (different in difference). We have the final edit pretty much  [... too long, see https://mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/jvyxkPYKNGU0WXRj ]
12:52:25 <br-m> <svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Sauce to yours and babysolo's articles? Ion use xitter so alt sos wul be preciated ! Kthnxbye
12:58:30 <br-m> <svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> Anyone watched the pilot episode of Monerchan Unchained anime on yewtube? Its top tier based Kino!
14:06:36 <br-m> <malori:xania.fr> @ravfx:xmr.mx: nice
14:06:36 <br-m> <malori:xania.fr> I dont recall having issue building the cli on void musl, but yeah had issue with gui and I couldnt bother to to work on it so I just used feather instead
14:52:42 <br-m> <gingeropolous> lol enabling the json api on xmrchain cause cpu to go from 100% to 1200%. 
14:53:53 <br-m> <gingeropolous> but hey the pretty version works now: https://www.exploremonero.com/
14:54:27 <br-m> <gingeropolous> hell yeah its responsive now.
14:58:01 <br-m> <gingeropolous> v0.18.4.7 . dang. how longs it been since we've seen a 7?
15:25:09 <br-m> <zombie:catgirl.cloud> Yes haha
15:34:23 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @gingeropolous: Gui-only
15:34:38 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Were goinf from 4.6 to 5.0 next
16:31:04 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: Can't stand AI crap but I guess there's no other way.
18:30:15 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: just watched. that was so funny! I need 10 seasons :) now if only he could get the old artstyle of ghost in the shell it would be perfect.
18:33:11 <br-m> <fafo757badnewzcoming4u:matrix.org> Wave👍🏻
18:34:59 <br-m> <sbt:nope.chat> @svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt: What's the relevance of an anime here? Does it mention monero?
18:40:00 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> @sbt:nope.chat: it does you should watch it
18:51:53 <BlueyHealer> Lost the previous logs, what were you talking about?
18:52:37 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> Monero-Chan Unchained EP1
18:58:24 <BlueyHealer> "Producing content with Seedance 2.0 is not cheap, guys"
18:58:52 <BlueyHealer> EWW disgusting this is confirmed AI slop, I'm so glad I haven't seen a single frame because of "Sign in to prove you're not a bot"
18:59:05 <BlueyHealer> Why would you pay attention to and especially advertise sludge?
19:02:26 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> idk it had a few scenes that made me laugh it's just a shitpost it's not that deep. I was also replying to someone that specifically asked about it and you asked me to repost what we were talking about :)
19:02:29 <BlueyHealer> I kinda take my words back, wait. I think the best reaction to sludge is to not pay attention to it. Rage is also attention. So should have just calmly informed you about this being AI sludge and refrained from emotions.
19:02:45 <BlueyHealer> Shitposting should be human and not outsourced to theft machine
19:02:59 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: it's all good :)
19:03:20 <BlueyHealer> Yeah, I feel like talking about it and sharing links, as well as leaving comments and dislikes, is bad, this is what sloppers want.
19:04:14 <BlueyHealer> After all, sludge is an approximation of everything it consumed so by nature not very distinct, so it should be usually easier to forget entirely and not spread the rot further.
19:06:47 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> BlueyHealer: Isn't this a shitposters dream though? "Turn this guy's opinion into a 5 season show on why he's wrong" personally I'm not paying the chinese 200$ for a 5 minute shitpost though
19:08:00 <BlueyHealer> A shitposter who's devoid of creativity and is averse to any work
19:08:53 <BlueyHealer> That's why some very gross people LOVE slop.
19:09:59 <BlueyHealer> Like, there was a drama about one slopper who defended GenAI and pretended it was skill and hard work while his own videos shown that it very much isn't, and it's pretty evident that he was being super jealous of his artist brother.
19:12:23 <BlueyHealer> Anyway, I'm again getting emotional over the existence of a thing that has zero excuse to exist.
19:15:00 <br-m> <assholeorangecat:matrix.org> I think you still have to storyboard and write a script that's work too unless it's all written and directed by ai which probably is the case lol I think you are fine totally get your point of view and yes better not to get worked up over things. Enjoy your weekend I'm logging off :))
19:29:24 <BlueyHealer> Yeah but still I think there's no excuse for generated imagery. Like, it's not like the visuals are te ignorable part! If you want a script or storyboard - just make a story or a comic then
19:29:51 <BlueyHealer> but yeah I'm just saddened at someone giving sludge attention
19:41:04 <moneromooo> In a way, I find it pretty funny how the entire world is now getting angry at what us free software programmers have faced for a long time. People just helping themselves to our stuff, to various degrees between shameless copying and inspiration.
19:41:48 <moneromooo> I used to write mostly free software, but now it's mostly open source. Inspiration's good. We build on the shoulders of giants.
19:42:11 <BlueyHealer> Inspiration =/= theft tho
19:42:34 <moneromooo> Another point is that the hate towards genai is similar to the hate towards monero and other private CCs too. Only see the bad, fail to see the good.
19:42:50 <BlueyHealer> This is less like inspiration and more like "Google uses my library" but on a big scale, and not just in software.
19:43:25 <BlueyHealer> Another point is that the hate towards genai is similar to the hate towards monero and other private CCs too. <- I don't think this is comparable at all. What noble goal does slop have? 
19:44:00 <moneromooo> Nobility is not a need for something to be useful.
19:44:35 <BlueyHealer> Monero and other anonymity tools are "just" a double-edged sword. And, more importantly in this context - a technical tool. GenAI in this context is used for consumption in place of art, not for a technical goal.
19:44:45 <moneromooo> Is photography not useful, just because a human hasn't laboured making a painting of a scenery ?
19:44:59 <BlueyHealer> It's a different medium tho.
19:45:20 <BlueyHealer> I didn't expect to continue the discussion and just wanted to go to sleep tbh
19:45:34 <moneromooo> Yet, painting still exists, if one wants to paint, or look at paintings. Way fewer, sure, but maximizing the number of painters isn't some noble goal either.
19:45:59 <moneromooo> Feel free to. Me giving my opinion is in no way a command for you to read it :)
19:46:12 <BlueyHealer> Yeah, but photos and slop are not exactly comparable either, and I can't quite put my finger on it.
19:47:00 <BlueyHealer> Yeah, I understand, I will 100% read a scrollback in the morning, I just wanted to say I didn't expect to engage more realtime)
19:47:03 <moneromooo> I can't either. I suspect part of it is the idea of substantial modification that we find in copyright protection.
19:47:21 <BlueyHealer> Copyright can burn in hell, I don't think it's that
19:48:52 <BlueyHealer> Also it would only matter if, say, Disney took the model devs to court. It wouldn't protect a teen from Deviantart who has no recourse at their creation used like this.
19:49:01 <moneromooo> FWIW, I am interested (and biased) in the topic because my game is going to be using genai for "flavour images", since I am very far from an artist. I'm considering a "use genai" option so that all these can be hidden by a player.
19:49:46 <BlueyHealer> Flavour images? I'm repulsed by that and so are a lot of people. IMO better nothing, or colors, or gradient, than sludge.
19:49:46 <moneromooo> I only mentioned copyright as an example of considering substantial modification. 
19:50:13 <BlueyHealer> Making sludge optional is very nice, but the presence of it still leaves a sour taste.
19:51:14 <BlueyHealer> TBH I'd be happy if the goop factories got sued by Disney, Nintendo or others. Toad and viper, I know, but still better for the world.
19:51:50 <moneromooo> Such socially mediated hate does make me uncomfortable. It seems pretty similar to mob mentality.
19:51:56 <BlueyHealer> Not like "sued and lost money" but "sued out of existence so that easy cloud goop generators cease to exist". I know this is not happening but man can dream.
19:52:45 <BlueyHealer> Socially mediated? I don't think so. I feel like I'm being gaslit into thinking sludge is okay, not the opposite.
19:53:07 <BlueyHealer> Okay, bye for now, I'll respond in the morning then.
19:54:03 <moneromooo> By socially mediated, I mean the, well, mob pile-on. AI is one of the current things that society has decided it's OK to hate.
19:54:09 <moneromooo> Good evening.
19:54:23 <moneromooo> Like immigrants and trans people.
19:54:51 <moneromooo> It seems anything is ok if you're bashing those, and THAT is not ok.
19:55:53 <moneromooo> They are treated as an homogenous thing based on their being part of the "bad" group, and therefore hated on.
19:56:57 <moneromooo> And I say "fuck that" to this manner of thinking and hating. Of course, I am not immune to this, since noone has the mental bandwidth to avoid grouping things to some degree.
19:58:02 <moneromooo> But genai does seem very similar to earlier advances in the way the pushback is vociferous, and later seems quaint and misplaced.
19:58:22 <moneromooo> Incumbency "get off my lawn"
19:59:03 <moneromooo> And I say that as someone whose work has been used that way for ages before, since people would just nick some of my code before genai was a thing.
19:59:59 <moneromooo> There is an element of scale, of course. Gen AI can gen a lot of stuff while lazy corporate coders wrote/stole at a human's pace :)
20:00:47 <moneromooo> But, not to pick on you in particular, but you said "Making sludge optional is very nice, but the presence of it still leaves a sour taste.".
20:01:36 <moneromooo> I find this statement interesting, because it is close to my thinking when I said "They are treated as an homogenous thing based on their being part of the "bad" group, and therefore hated on.".
20:02:25 <moneromooo> A touches genai, therefore A is bad. This is of course an extreme for the purposes of making my point, and not what you said.
20:02:49 <moneromooo> It's very close to, eg, that person is trans, therefore that person is bad.
20:03:35 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I don't think ive ever even met a trans adult
20:03:43 <moneromooo> I mention trans people here, because I've decided to make my game obviously trans accepting, to leave a sour taste in trans haters on purpose, because the constant hate I see makes me sick.
20:04:31 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I think trans hate is mostly on the internet (?)
20:04:33 <moneromooo> So I am kinda already primed to get annoyed at the mob mentality thing.
20:04:46 <moneromooo> I dunno, it seems it's a lot in the UK and US govt policies.
20:04:58 <moneromooo> Those aren't on the internet. They're in people's lives.
20:05:53 <moneromooo> It seems like it's gearing up to be today's jews. Responsible for all society's ills, etc. This was actually said by a US administration member, can't recall who.
20:05:56 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> That trans women (biological men) shouldnt be allowed in womens sports or bathrooms?
20:05:59 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or the army?
20:06:01 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont know of other legislation aside from thay
20:06:42 <moneromooo> Yes, it starts by restrictions. It always ratchets up. Same as for privacy. Always ratchets up.
20:06:50 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> this is offtopic, but i remember watching fallon fox beat up women in womens mma
20:07:13 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Fallon fox is a trans woman who transitioned at like 25 years old, after having kids and serving in the army
20:07:52 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Im not against people being trans, but being trans doesnt make you a man or a woman. Trans women shouldnt get to beat up women
20:08:03 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats not an anti-trans statement
20:08:15 <moneromooo> I'm sure you could find a jew who was whatever stereotype the nazis used in the 1930s. I'm also sure nazis would use that as a wedge to say jews were bad and it was ok to have restrictions on them.
20:09:16 <moneromooo> The point is that such things should never move towards a "therefore this group is bad and it's ok to hate on them" level, which is happening now.
20:09:40 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Well, usa likes to deflect from the fact that the politicians are pedophiles
20:09:59 <moneromooo> The US, probably the most prominent asshole here, was built by immigrants (who also basically committed genocide on the way).
20:10:02 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> So blaming fill in the blank works
20:10:15 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Americans are immigrants
20:10:17 <moneromooo> But they're now like all immigrants are bad.
20:10:50 <moneromooo> Anyway. I am really off topic indeed :D
20:11:13 <moneromooo> And always rooting for the underdog I guess.
20:11:30 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> again, need to ignore that the politicians are pedophiles
20:11:30 <moneromooo> Common human foible...
20:12:02 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Need to have people focus on how chinese americans are working 40hr/week and stealing jobs from EBT food stamp collecting hicks
20:13:07 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Nevwrmibd that we spends billions per year bombing people in their home countries, because bibi says we should, otherwise the world will see those videos of you and your 12 year old plaything
20:13:57 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Anyway, i try not to lend energy to the distractions
20:14:17 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If some dude wants to get implants, who am i to stop him
20:14:29 <moneromooo> But to "circle back", as they say nowadays, I'm still undecided on genai. I just know I'm not in the "firm hater" camp, at least. I think it's useful. It may also have deleterious effects, whether intrinsic or just due to the current way it's done.
20:15:20 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> People hate self checkouts too
20:15:43 <moneromooo> And monero, and privacy is general, is useful, and the way there's a neverending ratcheting of anti privacy laws makes me gag.
20:15:52 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> My stance is that human time shouldnt be wasted doing what a machine can do
20:16:27 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Monero is a good example. Sure, its nice to know how to count nickels and dimes when giving change to a customer
20:16:36 <moneromooo> To me, those things are similar. Hate and borg like flows of extinguishing bile.
20:16:41 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But why would you expect a human to stand in one spot all day and do such a demeaning job
20:16:52 <moneromooo> Against privacy, immigrants, trans people, and now genai.
20:17:09 <moneromooo> Among others of course. Always need a hate outlet.
20:17:36 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> i dont see trans and immigrants in the same vein as privacy and genai
20:18:05 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> the news would have you believe that peopke hate immigrants in texas
20:18:19 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> But texans absolutely love immigrants
20:18:51 <moneromooo> Why ? I'd draw the distinction between (1) privacy, immigrants, trans people and (2) genai. Mostly because for (1) the hate is largely driven by politicians and captured media, while for(2), not that I can see.
20:19:19 <moneromooo> Yeah, maybe the reality on the ground is different from what I perceive, true.
20:19:22 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> On the driver of the narrative, id agree there
20:20:32 <moneromooo> I'm also kinda biased because for maybe 20-25 years I've seen the rise of the far right and I'e always expected this to end in violence. It lasted longer than I thought it would though.
20:20:54 <moneromooo> And media hate about (1) is closely linked to this.
20:21:24 <moneromooo> And I viewed monero has a protection against that far right once it ruled over us.
20:21:46 <moneromooo> Well, it's a tool.
20:23:32 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont know my right from left, thank god
20:36:29 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> late to the convo but I live in a very rural area and we regularly get state legislation passed along these lines.  yes it happens irl/afk and it's ongoing > <moneromooo> Those aren't on the internet. They're in people's lives.
20:37:39 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Along what lines
20:38:37 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> trans people cant use the same waterfountains
20:38:45 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Have to ride at the back of the bus
20:39:24 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> What oppresive things have been passed against trans people?
20:39:51 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> the usual bathroom bills, sports bans, classification of drag shows as explicit and performance in front of children as a felony, mandatory reporting of trans identification of children by doctors and teachers, etc
20:40:55 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> how is that oppresive?
20:41:22 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> "no penises in the womens washroom" is exactly why womens washrooms were created
20:41:51 <br-m> <321bob321> Use a tree
20:42:19 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> it ties into meeting trans adults: i know more passing trans adults than otherwise
20:42:19 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> prolly bc if you aren't passing you have more reason to leave
20:42:19 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> so for example i know a very manly man looking man that was born with ovaries, too: one of the "true transgenders", actually has both organs.  i never knew til he told me much after meeting him
20:42:51 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Thats a hermaphrodite
20:42:52 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> he's actually not a great example of this bc the legislation doesn't address when you have both bits
20:43:21 <br-m> <gan:skhron.org> @jbabb:cypherstack.com: that's intersex, not transgender per se
20:43:31 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> intersex, yeah.  but i know another passing trans man that has to go into a bathroom with women now and it seems more disruptive and punitive than practical
20:43:45 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> A trans man meaning a stud?
20:43:47 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> A women who dresses like a man?
20:44:26 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> They dont have to use womens washrooms. Im sure men dont give 2 shits if women use the mens washroom, its the other way around. Men shouldnt use the womens washroom
20:45:09 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> it just seems like more of an obsession for many people rather than a practical thing
20:45:24 <moneromooo> I'm not sure you realize how dangerous it may be for a woman to use the men's washroom. Not always of course. But one time's all you need.
20:45:38 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> I dont think theres ever in the history of the world been a time when a man complained about there being a woman in the mens washroom (exaggerating)
20:45:54 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> moneromooo: this is an anti-trans statement /s
20:46:30 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> If youre a woman with female parts, you have your protection in the womens washroom. You can uae whatevwr washroom you want though
20:46:52 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Legislation prevents women with man parts from infringing on that protection
20:47:17 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> The mens washroom is essentially (imo) always been a unisex washroom. The womens washroom is for women-only
20:47:20 <moneromooo> Not only them. You can have your vag and still be considered a man in the law's eyes.
20:47:50 <moneromooo> This is what I mentioned above. Tag all the group as free to hate on without considering the nuances.
20:48:21 <moneromooo> So you base your propaganda on "this man says he's a woman" and bob's your uncle.
20:48:44 <moneromooo> Same as you base your propaganda on "this pedophile used monero" and alice's your aunt or something.
20:49:41 <br-m> <ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> This pedophile is my senator, president, congressman/woman
20:54:48 <br-m> <321bob321> They just want people to be divided
21:02:46 <BoBeR182> Why are we even discussing gender
21:02:59 <BoBeR182> so far far offtopic from privacy cryptocurrencies
21:03:24 <br-m> <gan:skhron.org> to be fair, the topic is more suited for the offtopic indeed
21:06:07 <br-m> <jbabb:cypherstack.com> the nice thing about privacy is it's for everybody
21:11:59 <br-m> <gan:skhron.org> Nonetheless, I do enjoy buying HRT from the black market with Monero 🧌
21:14:38 <moneromooo> You just made my day :D Privacy and freedom against the rise of the far right. That's why I chose monero to hack on all these years ago.
21:27:57 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> I will say, and this isn't exclusively directed at this anime, but I really don't like the concentration of AI usage in the Monero circles. I believe it gives a cheap look of the community, even if good intentioned. > <BlueyHealer> Why would you pay attention to and especially advertise sludge?
21:29:49 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> Like visit the Monero reddit and a significant amount of posts there are AI written, for example.
21:29:49 <br-m> <pyratevevo:matrix.org> Also people AI generating Monerochan everywhere instead of talented people drawing it.
21:58:12 <br-m> <kiersten5821:matrix.org> self checkout is great > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> People hate self checkouts too
22:03:35 <nioc> it is interesting to watch people at the international arrivals area of JFK airport.  People from all over the world finding out that all the bathrooms are unisex and then seeing the self selection into men's and women's bathrooms 
23:29:40 <br-m> <death757toz:matrix.org> nioc: 👀
23:29:51 <br-m> <death757toz:matrix.org> What's the best android keyboard app
23:47:33 <br-m> <svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @death757toz:matrix.org: Heliboard
23:48:21 <br-m> <svensvenson:gemeinsam.jetzt> @kiersten5821:matrix.org: Self checkout is a wage saving measure by corpos