13:12:08 Already? https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/s/FXRw2juqB1 13:14:28 Saw that on the twit 13:14:41 you cant convert xmr1 to xmr either 13:18:00 Initially it was just frozen for new swaps, "muh prevent north korea dex" but i guess they decided to disable being able to get your money back too 💪 13:18:01 it's too bad that decentralized platforms dont exist. Only have centralized dexes /s 13:26:42 btw are there decentralized options for like $20-$50 purchases? 13:27:04 I've just heard Haveno's problem being that the minimum sums are very big 14:03:12 BlueyHealer: monero-orderbooks.com 14:03:22 Basicswap doesnt have that problem 💪 14:04:51 BlueyHealer: Yes 14:37:56 How do I get the Wallet API files to compile when building the Monero core software? I tried with setting "option(BUILD_GUI_DEPS "Build GUI dependencies." ON)" in the toplevel CMakeLists.txt file, but either that does not get evaluated, or is altogether the wrong approach ... 14:38:11 Ups, wanted this to post in -dev - will repost 14:49:22 ofrnxmr, ah, nice! Not tried, cool to know. 14:56:17 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Okay, where do I get the 20-50 worth of shitcoins to then swap on basicswap ? 14:57:16 You sell yourself on the corner 14:57:56 (.. dumb questions get dumb answers, sorry not sorry) 14:59:49 You get em wherever they are sold or earned 🧠 14:59:54 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Edited, I hate when I don't fully type out what I have in mind. 15:00:18 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Check the edited message. 15:00:38 You buy them using xmr 15:01:10 You still consider it a dumb question ? 15:01:19 Yea 15:01:39 Youre asking how to get non-kyc btc (etc). Theres nothing new about that 15:02:01 Sell some product for xmr, btc, ltc, whatever 15:02:27 Or buy some on robosats, bisq, haveno, etc 15:03:29 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Don't all these have the same issue of no low volume trades ? 15:03:30 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Not a real answer. 15:03:31 Example: coincards cant offload their xmr on kraken anymore. They can swap their xmr to ltc/btc so they can dump those on kraken instead 15:03:49 How do they get xmr? By people buying goods off of them 15:03:59 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: How do you get dollars? 15:04:27 its a very real answer. 15:04:44 Do you expect it to come from the tooth fairy? 15:05:13 I'm not American, I can go exchange it at exchange places here, cash and no kyc. 15:06:16 And whats stopping you from exchanging X currency for abc crypto? 15:06:28 ^ > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or buy some on robosats, bisq, haveno, etc 15:06:42 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: ^ 15:07:19 No? 15:07:54 Nobody wants to sell you $4 of xmr, if thats what youre asking 15:08:19 Time is money. why would i waste my time making 40c (10%) on a $4 trade 15:08:44 This conversation started because of RetoSwaps large volume trades. I'll make sure to check if bisq or robosats are better. 15:09:04 retoswap wants 5xmr minimum for a btc<->xmr trade 15:09:15 Which is high. Thats $2000 15:10:06 I dont think fiat has the same massive minimums, but still dont expect $10 fiat trades since high volume on your bank acct is an easy way to get debanked 15:10:28 And just travelling to pickup the mail (cbm) costs $. 15:10:30 I was thinking $50 - $100 at a time. > <@ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Nobody wants to sell you $4 of xmr, if thats what youre asking 15:10:30 I definitely would prefer an ever lower barrier of entry like $20 or so. That's how I started last year, thanks to dfx.Swiss (rip). I also read that LocalMonero was way better in this regard. 15:10:31 in europe , if yo ufind just one bottle/can you can exchange it for cash (25 cent) without kyc 15:11:17 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Localmonero had corporate sellers on it doing $50+ swaps 15:11:40 Localmonero had better protection for sellers, since scammers could lose their rep etc. 15:11:54 dfs .swiss rip because they require kyc now? 15:12:09 Yes. 15:12:31 Haveno has no rep, so u can create a new burner acct and send stolen funds repeatedly and ruin a lot of sellers bank accounts. Dealing with scum/scammers costs money, and causes permanant damage 15:13:04 Unless you do cbm or f2f. Bith of which im not doing for less than 1k 15:13:31 @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: Would've thought the 2way deposit system alleviates some of this. 15:13:41 Im not meeting 20 strange internet ppl per day in alleyways for $50 15:13:57 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Not even close. all it takes is 1 or 2 fraud reports against your bank acct to get debanked 15:14:20 And those reports come long after the trade is compelted 15:15:29 On LM, i only allowed 1 trade within the first week, and a max of like $10. 15:15:29 the following trades had to come from the same account or name as the first. This is the only way to see that the sender isnt emptying 90y/o IRS scammed grandmas bank acct 15:16:07 ofrnxmr dont forget about people putting things in the payment reference that your bank will ask questions about😆 15:16:11 If it didnt come from same name, instantly reported them and their high rep acct would be banned 15:17:03 What prevents something like LM to come out again if it worked well ? 15:17:24 despite my due diligence, i had a bank ban me for life from them and all of their subsidiaries and parent companies banks and products 15:17:49 And this happened like a year after LM shut down 15:18:16 only safe way to trade for cash imo, is f2f or cbm 15:18:57 Or like in mexico, depositing to other persons bank acct at atm or at teller 15:19:08 @plowsof:matrix.org: So many people used to do that. Put localbitcoin in the scampal payment reason.. 15:19:10 Electronic transfers are an easy way to get rekt 15:19:42 also have to protect yourself from other sellers - there was a reddit thread where someone asked a top seller for advice on LM - he was told to add "darknet" to his description to increase trades -> got himself banned 😂 so other sellers will actively target you 15:19:51 Lmfao 15:20:27 Yeah, LM has a zero tolerance policy for DNM related activity 15:20:50 @plowsof:matrix.org: Currency exchange traders are some of the worst kinds of people. No surprised there. 15:27:54 br-m: You get em wherever they are sold or earned <- weird answer where "where are they sold/earned" was the whole question 15:28:28 Make code 15:28:28 Get paid 15:28:40 I also don't know what are the min trade amounts on Bisq 15:29:27 retoswap wants 5xmr minimum for a btc<->xmr trade <- wtf that's more than my entire savings 15:29:50 I was thinking $50 - $100 at a time <- same 15:30:04 monero-orderbooks.com << you can see the mininums here 15:31:57 ravfx, this sounds like "stop being poor bruh" (even though I'm far from poor yet still would struggle with THAT amount) 15:32:01 Its not a rewuirement, its just how retoswap makers roll 15:32:02 The minimum required on retoswap is like 0.05xmr, but under 3% or so, the best is like 4xmr 15:32:15 @ravfx:xmr.mx: I think the LXQT team was looking for some talent for some upgrades, could use Monero community funding 15:33:20 nice 15:35:30 for smaller amounts it might be worth using "riskier" exchanges that are more centralized that accept lower amounts 15:36:38 I like the continuous assumptions here that everyone is either an old cryptobro who should know where to get shitcoins no kyc because "there's nothing new about that", or a programmer who should seek work to somehow get paid in shitcoin or XMR. 15:37:54 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: I will never do kyc to third parties. Not for monero not for anything. 15:39:58 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Dont forget those who love products and good GUIs 15:41:01 Back in my very naive youth... I remember being annoyed enough at the account opening reqs I told the bank employee in the branch they could use public key crypto, even face to face, to make sure they dealt with the right person, and wouldn't need this less secure paperwork shit. I was such a sweet summer geek back then. Sniff. 15:41:13 Still thinking they were looking out for us... 15:41:42 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: well there are services claiming different amounts of no kyc guarentees everything has different risks and you'll better double tripple check out their policies before doing a trade on anything recommend by anyone but I'm sure you'll find something 15:41:51 moneromooo: I think I am the crossroads of naive youth and whatever comes next. 15:41:57 moneromooo: I like to think the same thing, makes the world a nicer place to believe that. 15:42:18 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: just keep asking don't let people like that put you down :) 15:42:29 moneromooo: Probably got put on a watchlist ever since... 15:42:38 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: what is the issue with buying XMR with KYC? The selling party would just know you bought some (and the amount), nothing more beyond that 15:42:47 Yeah, but honestly I was already on some anyway so... 15:42:54 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: those dont exsist 15:43:07 or a programmer who should seek work to somehow get paid in shitcoin or XMR.<- also in some jurisdictions being paid in crypto is illegal. Like, this is not very enforceable if you are careful, but that's a sword over your head. 15:43:25 moneromooo: The butchers slaughterhouse list? 15:43:32 The more pressing concern is the inability to code anything but simple utilities in Python tho 15:44:04 knowing python is equal to being someone who can transform reality today 15:44:25 You betcha. Forever thankful for the PETA activist who opened the gate for me. I now wear black and white stripes so everyone thinks I'm a zebra. Cow not found ever since. 15:44:38 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Just seems like it's prohibitively difficult for one to dip their toes in Monero now. Either be a suspicious whale selling 50btc on RetoSwap, or jump into bullshit hoops and maybe then you can get your hands on a low amount of XMR without kyc. 15:44:59 what is the issue with buying XMR with KYC? <- The issue is there being definitive proof that you bought crypto. People have been kidnapped to be extorted based on KYC data. Also doing this mighe get illegal and you might be punished retroactively ;/ 15:45:10 BlueyHealer: how about... someone gives you crypto and pay in work ? Would that work ? Is being paid in work also illegal ? 15:45:47 BlueyHealer: someone might try to drug you with LSD in your sleep, if they figure out you bought XMR 15:46:01 @hbs:matrix.org: Like I said, it's beyond Monero. I know pragmatically it doesn't matter after the trade, I just won't ever do kyc to anything that's not a bank (until I one day go off the grid, then I won't even put up with banks). 15:46:01 Oh. Free drugs ? 15:46:21 moneromooo: cant complain, can you 15:46:53 that's what we call a high value monero transaction 15:47:31 Cost a lot more than the $5 option, that's for sure. 15:48:50 @notsetvin:matrix.org: What if I prefer wrenches over psychedelics ? 15:49:43 ofrnxmr: Maybe that's the problem in Haveno (only extremely high minimums) 15:49:46 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Oh I misunderstood your goal. But you are saying you already have a kyc bank? You mean a local bank you just walked in and made an account? I can understand if you don't want your data within one of those kyc companies. If that is the case yes it might be hard to get smaller amounts on those trading sites that offer bank transfers. 15:49:54 There are no long-term traders like in LocalMonero 15:50:24 Long-term traders tend to have small minimums because they can still make profit over many transactions 15:50:52 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: MtPelerin in Switzerland does their KYC themselves, no third party 15:51:22 In Haveno, every trader is considered ephemeral, so minimums are super high in order to be profitable 15:51:31 are raised super high* 15:51:45 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Unless I don't want to engage with society at large, yes I had to have a bank account. 15:52:49 I'd really like the concept of a list of traders you can trust to be there 24/7 like LocalMonero was 15:52:52 br-m: knowing python is equal to being someone who can transform reality today <- wat 15:53:13 Yes, kyc intermediaries are absolutely out of the question. I consider the bank itself a kyc participant since they have all the info in the world too. 15:53:29 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I will make sure to note your preference, in case any opportunities you might be interested in pop up. 15:54:18 Yeah, I'd be concerned not about the bank knowing where the crypto was spent, but that the person has purchased some crypto at all at one point. 15:54:34 BlueyHealer: What if there is not a man in the middle, but a whole team. 15:54:41 ? 15:54:58 😏 15:55:04 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Hm sorry yes there are limited options for you at the moment. Maybe there is a bank in your country where you can walk in and make an account that also offers crypto that might be in your comfort zone. Otherwise you'll have to befriend that one other monero user in your town and give him cash for monero. 15:55:10 not translate from cryptic to human, including your first statement I questioned) 15:55:47 Honestly the chances of buying Monero from CEXs in the future is quite slim these days 15:56:04 there is a bank in your country where you can walk in and make an account that also offers crypto that might be in your comfort zone <- how is that different from KYC? 15:56:06 As more and more governments start to ramp up and ban Monero 15:56:10 gosh cryptonote enjoyers are cryptic? how? 15:56:20 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: I think I actually can get my hands on those USD casino chips from local shops here. My question was also for like everyone else in other countries as well who won't be as lucky to have those. 15:56:23 Cindy, I am not even talking XMR, just anything you'd swap into it. 15:56:40 Oh 15:56:59 Cindy: as long as they accept any other shitcoin I'm happy to sell it on their site after buying it with moneor 15:57:10 notsevin, it's one thing to be into privacy and the other to obscure what you want to say *in a conversation* 15:57:48 Honestly I was only ever lucky once in Haveno 15:57:51 pyratevevo, and are those chips sellable for any coin? 15:58:01 Found an exchange with a small minimum 15:58:28 I don't think I'll ever will be that lucky now that minimums are like thousands of dollars 15:59:44 The other big problem with the only-large-volume trades is it fucks people in less rich countries. Where $50 for you might not seem worth a Monero trade for, someone else sees it as a lot of money, because it is where they live, and they don't have to be poor for that to be the case. 16:00:17 Who even CAN trade like this? I am middle-class and I don't even HAVE this much in total! 16:00:29 BlueyHealer: The chips I'm referring to are Tether. 16:00:30 Won't exchanges like fixedfloat or whatever work for kyc-less small-ish amounts ? 16:00:33 It's like a few median salaries 16:00:41 i have thousands of xmr 16:00:47 Or another if that one's gone. 16:00:48 plenty of people can 16:00:54 imagine taking out a loan to buy XMR that you can't even all use up because it's such a truckload 16:01:21 btw can anyone tell me about that corner where you can earn XMR 16:02:09 Honestly, haveno kinda fucked up 16:02:16 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: I wouldn't worry about them I'm very sure they'll find profitable opportunities in their countries that monero for the first time allows them to participate in 16:02:21 @ravfx:xmr.mx: are you interested in some of my unique talents? 16:02:32 The whole platform is designed for ephemeral trades 16:02:32 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Fraud is super popular and profitable! 16:02:44 You're supposed to leave your computer on the WHOLE TIME 16:02:54 for your trade to continue to be advertised 16:03:01 https://i.imgur.com/ynxgxWw.png 16:03:03 So there is no sense of longevity 16:03:05 Like, Bisq has a lite version for smaller trades without having prior BTC, I wonder if Haveno could get that too 16:03:06 my feather balance 16:03:06 rn 16:03:25 Cindy: You're supposed to leave your computer on the WHOLE TIME <- can this be ran as a daemon on, like, a Raspberry Pi? 16:03:36 Most of the people who are "Getting rich" trading XMR are just wash trading 16:03:41 Does inline replies not work for folks on the IRC side ? I can't make which message is meant to reply to which. 16:03:54 no 16:03:55 yes raspberry pi is super popular choice for running nodes 16:03:59 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Well I would worry about them, because I live in one. 16:04:09 get a laptop and an ecoflow 16:04:10 to keep it on 16:04:12 indefinitely 16:04:21 BlueyHealer: Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7 16:04:25 my trades stay advertised even through power outages, and i have a generator 16:04:27 i have like 16:04:30 10 computers running 24/7 16:04:31 Especially if they're tech-illiterate 16:04:32 in my house 16:04:33 I would not want a device with a battery to be permanently on 16:04:40 yeah basically anything 16:04:50 so your "nobody" does not include me 16:05:04 Haveno lost the veteran traders from LocalMonero because of this 16:05:04 Cindy: Only North German aldi investors would do that 16:05:05 Cindy: BlueyHealer: Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7 <- a lot of selfhosters do. I don't leave mine overnight, but for most of the day I do, even if it's mostly just seeding torrents. 16:05:17 They expect to put a trade and wait 16:05:21 thats not really true 16:05:23 bro once the chain is synced it uses almost no cpu. You guys are crazy. 16:05:28 localmonero was dead 16:05:34 because binance created a peer to peer thing 16:05:37 it took the whole market 16:05:47 it killed localbitcoin too 16:05:58 localbitcoins went out of business permanently 16:06:04 Cindy, for context - is this a GUI and/or resource-intensive app? I wonder if this can be ran on a regular homeserver SBC 16:06:05 because of binances p2p exchange 16:06:20 BlueyHealer: Haveno can be ran as a daemon 16:06:33 Ah, nice! 16:06:44 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Also one of the promises of Monero/crypto is unrestricted financial freedom everywhere. So I would very much prefer if even countries with inflated currencies are considered. I don't like the concept that I shouldn't worry about them like they don't yet deserve digital cash. 16:06:52 But really, how many traders want to deal with this vs. putting up a trade and waiting for an email notification 16:06:59 me 16:07:06 You're the exception 16:07:09 But I agree having to have it always-on is a bar for entry, because I am still not comfortable leaving my RPi on *overnight*, even if I know it's alright. 16:07:12 okay well apaprently not 16:07:16 because there are counterparties for my trades 16:07:20 generally always 16:07:23 i cant trade with myself 16:07:28 Nobody is gonna run a computer 24/7 <<>> I am also exceptional, always on anyway 16:07:46 Guys, you do realize what I mean by "nobody" 16:07:48 but never used haveno 16:07:55 it doesnt have to be for everybody 16:07:55 I'm not talking about tech peoppe 16:07:59 it has to give the possibility 16:08:02 I am somebody!! 16:08:03 to those who have a commercial need for it 16:08:09 BTW for node syncing - can you just do the resource-intensive part on your PC and then move it to a weak SBC? 16:08:12 I'm talking about people who literally just want to put a trade up and wait in the meantime 16:08:14 Cindy: <3 16:08:19 if you have the comemrcial need for a decentralized exchange, you will be willing to leave your pc on 16:08:22 because its probably like 16:08:22 a lot of money 16:08:25 and important logistics for you 16:09:08 as it is for me, as i hold over 10k monero and a lot more value in bitcoin and dont use any centralized exchange 16:09:12 And if it's not a commercial need but just wanting to buy some XMR to pay for your VPN? 16:09:15 if you wanna do 10bux and have convienence 16:09:25 go to orangefren.com 16:09:28 I just wanna buy 10 bucks of Monero 16:09:48 And not end up paying some guy a minimum of 10,000 dollars to get 10 bucks 16:09:51 Makes no sense 16:10:12 That's like if I wanted to buy a TV, I have to buy a bulk of it from the manufacturer 16:10:17 I'd expect about 50 min tbh 16:10:39 !tip Cindy .02457 monero 16:11:31 anyways something that accommodated small retail transactions 16:11:39 uhhh 16:11:40 oh yeah 16:11:45 go use eigenwallet maybe? 16:11:45 That is exactly what a lot of people need 16:11:53 if you dont want centralization 16:12:00 i think you can trivially do small amounts trustless and decentralized 16:12:05 with eigenwallet atomic swaps 16:12:25 Chicken-egg problem 16:12:26 that's not with fiat it seems tho 16:12:35 Cindy, yes exactly 16:13:00 I mean how are you gonna get the if you just have fiat 16:13:00 @pyratevevo:matrix.org: Oh I'm sorry to hear that. You are going to face issues unique to your country. But I'm sure most of them can be solved feel free to ask no matter what people say. 16:13:59 I don't like the concept that I shouldn't worry about them like they don't yet deserve digital cash <- YES 16:15:09 12:07 < Cindy> I mean how are you gonna get the if you just have fiat 16:15:21 you could offer goods and services in exchange for the currency 16:15:32 rather than exchanging for it if your country bans fiat 16:15:40 xmrbazaar 16:15:53 Same like drugs. Find yourself a dealer 16:15:55 @assholeorangecat:matrix.org: Ironically it is because of living in such country that I can go up in some shop and straight up exchange fiat for Tether. 16:15:55 For now something like Trocador now completes the swap part and solves the issue here. But I would've preferred the extra mile and completely sidestep CEXes if it was possible with DEXes.. 16:16:22 #moneroswap:matrix.org 16:16:46 So youre here asking rhetorical questions 16:17:02 You can acquire usdt but youre pretending that you cant get xmr using the usdt? 16:17:34 We should have haveno lite 16:17:38 yeah just go to orangefren.com or wagyu or w/e and exchange 16:17:42 cindy it is called eigenwallet 16:17:43 Place for low-volume trades 16:17:44 i already directed you to it 16:17:50 weev_: with fiat 16:17:54 Wagyu rugged, didnt they 16:17:56 are you in the EU? 16:17:59 did they? lol 16:18:03