08:44:19 <br-m> <spirobel:kernal.eu> why do we think it is a good idea to make a seedphrase standard part of the core repository that is not a widely used standard? 
08:45:44 <br-m> <spirobel:kernal.eu> the rest of the industry has accepted to use bip39 and most users are accustomed to it. there is a cost to introduce this form of technical debt 
08:51:15 <br-m> <syntheticbird> There are no usage until its available to the user
08:57:24 <br-m> <rbrunner7> Not sure when you last checked. Polyseed support in "true" Monero wallet apps is is almost universal now. That's why it makes sense to finally make the step to offer support in the core software IMHO. (Multicoin wallets where XMR is one asset among 100 are of course a different story.)
08:58:07 <br-m> <syntheticbird> @rbrunner7: I do know of Stack Wallet and Cake Wallet supporting polyseed, but I don't remember having seen a passphrase field.
08:58:20 <br-m> <syntheticbird> at my understanding the spec was still stuck on the plausible deniability issue with the encryption bit
08:58:27 <br-m> <syntheticbird> offset bit*
08:59:04 <br-m> <rbrunner7> Ah, yes, I misunderstood. You specifically meant Polyseed with passphrases. Not sure about that, but yeah, if two heavyweights support it, why not in the core software?
08:59:47 <br-m> <rbrunner7> About that "plausible deniability" stuck-up: My PR routes around that by not using Polyseed encryption.
09:00:08 <br-m> <syntheticbird> fair
09:00:20 <br-m> <rbrunner7> It's supported for restore however
09:02:01 <br-m> <rbrunner7> And well, about that "industry standard" bit that @spirobel:kernal.eu mentioned: Having to provide a restore height when restoring is also not "industry standard", but just the way Monero works, and Polyseed removes a major pain point there.
09:03:21 <br-m> <rbrunner7> "Technical debt": I have heard about it, yeah. wallet2 cough cough.
09:04:19 <br-m> <syntheticbird> @rbrunner7: contrib/epee cough COUGH * glass breaks * * die *
09:04:33 <DataHoarder> not epee
09:05:11 <br-m> <syntheticbird> wdym
09:05:37 <br-m> <syntheticbird> Tell me where and when and I'll  be ready to death fight on this
09:06:55 <br-m> <rbrunner7> @syntheticbird:monero.social: At least I know that in Feather Wallet the passphrase input hides behind an Options button: Don't let noobs stumble over it, as a "pro" feature, too easily. It does support Polyseed passphrases.
09:07:57 <br-m> <rbrunner7> That's why it stores passphrases, a feature that I decided to propose we do not copy for the core software, see my linked comment.
09:09:22 <br-m> <rbrunner7> Cake wallet also supports Polyseed passphrases with a similar UI, and unfortunately uses Polyseed encryption ...
10:31:46 <plowsof> epee is full of helpers that you find out about after re implementing them 
13:44:53 <br-m> <syntheticbird> the protocol heresy aside, my main issue with epee is how heteregoneous the code is. I get it, NIH syndrome stricking, but still, I could go on two different files and I believe they are from different dimensions. I also hate the structure but I'm biased because Rust has PERFECT codebase structure.
13:45:27 <br-m> <syntheticbird> im not gonna edit this message
14:44:45 <br-m> <rbrunner7> I am admin here, I could probably do it for you :)
14:52:45 <br-m> <syntheticbird> @rbrunner7: thats kind of you correct my spelling mistakes
14:52:53 <br-m> <syntheticbird> to correct*