use it!

...or lose it! - just like rpc-pay! which jeffro256 has submitted a pull request to delete from the monero code base monero-project/monero #8724

Good one plowsof

product placement is key

Head of monero marketing department

spacecat: =Kitty?

what's the story with bitcoin ordinals? to what extent could this be done on Monero?

The bitcoiners are panicking now

what is bitcoin ordinals?

fr33_yourself: People can put anything they want in a Monero transaction's tx_extra field, but it cannot be "transferred" to anyone. It stays with the transaction.

Rucknium[m]: So ordinals are possible on Monero too?

Monero quantities do not even appear on the blockchain, so the exact form of ordinals could never happen.

fr33_yourself: What are the essential features of ordinals?

Rucknium[m]: phewwwww thank goodness

Rucknium[m]: I'm seeing a concerningly large number of bitcoiners panic that jpegs can be permanently directly tied to a Satoshi forever onward

Anyone can "claim" an ordinal in Monero (if it were to try to exist) by including the tx's output public key in their ring signature as a decoy.

Rucknium[m]: You lost me here

fr33_yourself: How do you transfer an ordinal?

Rucknium[m]: op_extra or is it different? I just heard about them now and only understand at a surface level how they work

What is the worst thing that can be included in the tx_extra field? only text and numbers can be in the tx_extra field right?

are you sitting down fr33?

To spend an output in bitcoin you have to prove that you have the private key of the output's public key (its address). There is only one. In Monero you only prove that one of the many outputs (of 16 now) that you are including is yours.

plowsof11: yes

jpegs are also text and numbers

the... entire bee movie script exists on the monero blockchain, please don't panic

its a great movie

haha

zero to monero pdf also (a great document)

I knew that but ordinals seem to be even worse than bee movie script in tx_extra

Rucknium[m]: So basically by doing funny stuff with tx_extra you would be revealing you are the true spend?

its an issue of chain bloat - any block chain can be bloated, at a cost, some more Zcheaper than others

LOL

fr33_yourself: No

What is the worst thing that can happen to Monero then? basically the bitcoin boys seem to be on full panic because csam can be attached forever to a satoshi directly on chain

for a fee

can the same sort of thing happen in xmr? and if so what happens if you own the bee movie output or csam output in Monero's case?

People have been able to put arbitrary data on the bitcoin blockchain since basically the beginning. Since OP_RETURN was invented.

Yes, but this time it's apparently an order of magnitude worse. Like before they could put hidden service links, but now if my understanding is correct the image itself be stored on the chain inseperably linked to that satoshi

this is not arbitrary, it's an NFT!!

creating taint

Lol

it's why it's called ordinal

Satoshi put arbitrary data in the genesis block

taint aint our problem , dont waste brain cells thinking about it

why are we safe from having this sort of nft ingrained in our outputs? what about the bee movie tx? what happens if you receive the output with the bee movie in it?

Maybe in 2013 OP_RETURN was implemented: bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions…an-op-return-transaction-looks-like

fr33_yourself: Nothing. That's what I was saying. You or I could construct a tx right now with that tx's output public key and appear to "spend" it....but there is plausible deniability with ring size 16.

The only question is if the tx was post- or pre-RingCT

So we are somewhat unaffected by this madness? Basically even the bee movie guy who initially added that in the tx_extra field had plausible deniability?

If it was a pre-RingCT tx, then we would have to own a pre-ringCT output to appear to spend it in a ring

I see. so basically we are good then.

plowsof: Do you know the tx hash of the Bee Movie script tx?

world isn't going to burn down

Put it this way: coins are only actually transferred through a Bulletproofs+ operation. Is tx_extra included in that Bulletproofs+ operation? No. Only integers (the coins themselves) are.

Rucknium[m]: So this somewhat seperates a currency unit of Monero from the tx_extra data, such as bee movie script? if so what does the tx_extra data stay attached to? the entire cryptographic blob? but what happens if that blob is split into two outputs on chain?

Rucknium[m]: What's Bee Movie script tx?

cant find the bee movie atm, the best i can do currently is zero to monero id's forum.monero.space/d/38-should-we-remove-tx-extra/5

fr33_yourself: tx_extra is a field in the tx.

Zero to Monero 2.0 has a description of exactly what a tx contains in its appendix.

It is a little out of date since it doesn't include the view tag or the update from Bulletproofs to Bulletproofs++

Blobs don't split into outputs.

The blockchain is a database

more things in tx extra monero-project/monero #6668#issuecomment-670978771

Researchers put a ton of data on the LTC blockchain: petsymposium.org/popets/2022/popets-2022-0011.php

"We present results from UWeb experiments with writing 268.21 MB of data into the live Litecoin blockchain, including 4.5 months of live-feed BBC articles, and 41 censorship resistant tools. The max-rate writing throughput (183 KB/s) and blockchain utilization (88%) exceed those of state-of-the-art solutions by 2-3 orders of magnitude and broke Litecoin’s record of the daily average block size. "

I was a little shocked when I read that.

Why do we use txextra again?

payment ids sir

ofrnxmr keeps posting links that I can't access :(

I know thorchain and serai need it, and thorchain even "promised" not to spam

removing tx extra = removing payment ids (?)

Are payment ID's even necessary anymore? With subaddresses and coming jamtis

I'm looking at ztm 2 now to see if my monke brain can understand the maximum risks

The same reason that Bitcoin added OP_RETURN, basically. If you don't have a designated place, people will find a place to put data in places that need cryptographic verification. kayabanerve explained it in one of the channels about 6 months ago

ofrnxmr[m]: it was discussed today in the mrl lounge

I remember that. But where else would they put it, in Monero

where else would they put it?

would they just get mad spam tx's lol

And if there is anew need for some "extra" field in a tx, then you would have to hard fork.

nioc: Hey, ive been awake for 20hrs. I read that earlier too 😆😆. I'll remember it all after I wake up

something something kayabanerve clsag something townforge is cool

^^^

I actually don't endorse the CLSAG method

i like how we can joke about this while the btc community is in high defcon state right now

ofrnxmr: Fake outputs.

They'd appear identical to valid ones, if done correctly.

There have been a few papers about using Monero as a secure global private messaging protocol.

oh no... lol

they could use stagenet / their own 'net' though?

They'd be like half as efficient at data storage, not prunable, and globally increase scan time

plowsof: No

Which you would know if you ptu moneroresearch.info in your RSS feed! :P

ohh :(

The point of using Monero is exactly how decentralized it is, and also due to the vast amount of people using Monero

Suggesting testnet/stagenet immensely decreases those attributes

use pgp and leave monero alone ! cries

i don't know what to make of all this honestly haha

I'm not suggesting Monero should be used that way ofc. I'm ack'ing why there's the discussion for it

I feel kind of like that rn plowsof

Guo, Z., Shi, L., Xu, M., & Yin, H. (2021). MRCC: A practical covert channel over Monero with provable security. IEEE Access, 9, 31816–31825.

we want to make mooonero fungible and minimal funny business if possible right

plowsof: You cannot stop me from placing ~60 bytes on chain. I will either fake outputs, globally increasing scan time with less prunable, inefficient data storage, yet maintaining privacy, or use an arbitrary data field, breaking TX uniformity (though multi-out TXs already kinda do that) yet not increasing scan time, being perfectly efficient at being arb data, and with a clearer path towards pruning.

fr33_yourself: same comment goes to you

This isn't a simple discussion. I have a GH comment covering this. I favor a <=255 byte field with an extra fee associated.

And encrypted healthcare data: "In this paper, we describe an efficient, fully anonymous and GDPR-compliant PPBA protocol built into the blockchain of any privacy coin such as Monero." moneroresearch.info/index.php?actio…n=resource_RESOURCEVIEW_CORE&id=108

Rucknium: i will hack that site and destroy it just to erase that paper off the internet

Sarier, N. D. (2022). Privacy preserving biometric authentication on the blockchain for smart healthcare. Pervasive and Mobile Computing, 86, 101683.

kayabanerve: You already have the means to do so

Since you helped save us that one time from an out-of-control log file

Thanks

I don't think I ever got SSH access, actually. I just told y'all what to do :p

kayabanerve[m]: if what you say is true, then I do agree with you

I do despise the idea of replicated private data though

Blockchains are data-storage devices. It is really hard to stop people storing data on it if they really want to.

Basically any amount of freedom you give someone can be used to store data bits. It may be very inefficient. Without any freedom, you don't have a meaningful protocol.

Think about Morse code.

No one should make private data publicly available, even in encrypted form. That's my stance re: that paper and I don't care to debate it. I'd even argue such papers are immoral as written and without value, by the title, yet I'll wait till I read it to properly comment.

Going back from that horror of a paper to the general TX extra discussion though, agreed.

do you think a csam imagine could be uploaded in tx_extra? if so, what could a third party infer about the sender or reciever?

ofc, I'd be surprised if we didn't have links to them rn. BTC does IIRC

Also malware byte strings, which trips some AVs

a link is one thing, but the image itself can't fit into the monero tx_extra field can it?

it's not limited

we have the entire bee movie script on chain

so if the guy pays enough he can put the csam on chain

when out in lisbon, we discussed the actual bee movie

even in monero

... we really should add an additional fee to it

Like almost every single blockchain, yes

People added entire software to the LTC chain by chaining OP_RETURN together in multiple transactions. DO you see that paper I just posted?

i guess the upside in monero's case is that that output can't be used to taint another person's wallet since addresses and subaddresses never appear on chain right?

Rucknium: I didn't, which was that

Rucknium[m]: yes but i am monke so i didn't fully grasp the scale of what had been done

I see biometrics, healthcare data, and covert channels

but yes it seems incredible indeed

> we have the entire bee movie script on chain

Do you happen to know which transaction lol

the covert channels one was fascinating as it used the selected decoys IIRC

> Rucknium: I didn't, which was that

Me too I'd like to see that

jeffro256: Uhhh there's a blog post covering TX extra which may have it, but just run strings on the DB and it should pop up

*a copy of the bee movie, not the TX it's in.

Is this like a roundabout smart-contract thing?

kayabanerve: petsymposium.org/popets/2022/popets-2022-0011.php

They put Tor, i2p, and whonix on the Litecoin blockchain

41 software programs in total

a noble cause but at what cost🤔

kayabaNerve Isn't tx_extra encrypted with a DH exchange of the transaction key?

ha no

It's arbitrary data interpreted as TLV

I might be thinking of payment IDs inside tx_extra

The payment ID is ECDH'd

If it's an encrypted payment ID

Ah yes that's it

Rucknium When is someone gonna be meta and put the Monero core repo on there?

Monero doesn't have explicit encrypted memos, right? Zcash does.

Recursion :)

Sounds like you could implement your own encrypted messaging scheme inside tx_extra

I know nothing about it, have never used it, but I think that's similar to what MMS does

kayabaNerve While doing strings grep 'bee', I found this message: "Thanks for the helphavesome beer"

so i still wonder what the worst case outcome of a csam jpeg in the tx_extra field is? because you have plausible deniability and your addresses don't appear on chain, then you are safe right? whereas in bitcorn you address appears on chain and nobody wants that tainted satoshi with a jpeg on it

jeffro256: monero-project/monero #6668#issuecomment-670978771

fr33_yourself: that's not how any of this works

at all

you can'rt get 'sent' data,

While yes, you can say those sats were owned by a pedophile... that doesn't make the sats themselves illegal nor worth less

*nor worth less by being illegal

They're just disgusting

The only commentary about Monero being private is: 1) You can upload stuff without you being noted as the payer 2) You can be in the TX without getting a call from the police, even if you weren't the uploader, just a 'recipient'

Why dont we force all tx extra to be encrypted

Because we can't.

So only the recipient can read whatever is in it

Same as how we send a dummy output with each tx

We don't send a dummy output with each TX?

1) The data in TX extra currently doesn't benefit from being encrypted. Its all ZK. It's either group elements, revealing nothing, or already encrypted payment IDs.

2) When someone includes arbitrary data, there's no distinction between raw bytes and encrypted data other than a statistical guess.

kayabanerve: And compressed data would look pretty similar to encrypted data, statistically, right?

Uhhhhh no, encrypted should be uniformed, compressed has some level of self-description

Percentage wise, yeah, sure, compressed data looks much more similar than plaintext

<kayabanerve[m]> "While yes, you can say those..." <- why would anyone in bitcoin want to be the guy who owns the satoshi with a csam ordinal nft permanently attached or ingrained into it

but there should be no ability to distinguish a random series of bytes and encrypted data. zip programs yell at you for a malformed zip

Because few people would notice, it'd get mixed in some vat at some point, and the sat itself isn't a risk of clawback

Rucknium: what are the odds a modern UTXO descends from a sat in a TX which also contained a link in OP_RET

Extremely high, right?

kayabanerve: Probably. You can re-read this ;)

kayabaNerve what did you think of tevador's idea of implementing randomness checks in the relay rules?

jeffro256: I despise it

To the room: That ^ research can give you some idea of how bitcoin transaction descendants spread through the chain.

I understand the idea. I fucking hate when protocols just start randomly failing on you.

I could re-run that analysis on any tx

kayabanerve[m]: I don't follow?

94% ??? That's crazy

Everything's tained

BTC will fail if the mempool spikes, if you have a small enough enough output. That output won't have enough value to be spent and BTC will consider it spam.

So one BTC fee spike will just change whether or not a prior created TX is spam

jeffro256: That's not asingle UTXO. That's all that were involved in a BCH coinjoin

And then XMR has 'sanity checks', which yes, can theoretically trigger in a perfectly random, valid TX, using the gamma distribution

> I understand the idea. I fucking hate when protocols just start randomly failing on you.

True... But the wallet would also be able to implement this test at rest before the transaction was broadcasted

Those aren't enforced at relay, just when publishing over RPC to local node, I just still hate them

I hate all of these rules.

kayabanerve: That sanity check is at wallet2 level only. Not node relay or consensus.

Right

Especially ones dependent on network view. It's acceptable, just annoying af, if the TX can be checked as an isolate, but the network view ones? Fuckkkk that

Okay but the fee check depends on input/transaction from other people. The randomess check would be entirely static

Rucknium: I just acknowledged that, but thank you

No environmental variables

jeffro256: It's just still largely meaningless IMO.

I don't care to waste my time remembering protocol rules which should never be triggered on the claim they're 'helpful' when they can cause intermittent failures.

I'd rather yell at people using TX extra to encrypt it, not have the node randomly yell that.

You know what

Someone should put 25/24 in tx_extra

25/24?

The infamous monero matrix spammer

Yeah idk. It's impossible to verify randomness, unfortunately. I'm more in favor of removing tx_extra completely, no randomness checks needed . You could still pass arbitrary data thru dummy outputs, but it makes it a whole lot harder and more inefficient

> The infamous monero matrix spammer

The one that did the Christmas serialization attack?

jeffro256: No. Asking the same question over and over again in Matrix/IRC

Might get a diff answer

that sounds like me

You wish

Its not easy being 24/25

Imagine trying to do a swap for 2 months? Or taking just as long to learn how to use your ledger?

Now.. imagine faking it for 2 months for 3 hours a day, 3-5 days a weel

24/25 is a very, very dedicated troll

Getting flashbacks

If youre lucky, he'll dm you

Sounds like a scary prank, but im not lying

He's here

(I am / siren is him)

ofrnxmr[m]: Yes he haunts some people

Why do you think I decided not to sleep

( /s)

I used to work in IT. This man/creature sounds horrifying

Reminds me of some of the clients, but they were genuine. Just couldn't both bothered learning how to use tech

<Siren[m]> "Yes he haunts some people" <- Wake up in cold sweats?

Wake up to my phone buzzing

It's 25/24

Fire me 🍿

get back to work

<ofrnxmr[m]> "But this does sound a lot better..." <- Better then the placeholder voice for presentation purposes we never intended to use in a final product? Well, that is an upgrade indeed

kayabanerve @kayabanerve:matrix.org: I don't understand your stance of an "additional fee" for tx_extra. Aren't fees already by default based on the size of the transaction? And nonstandard fees can be chosen regardless, so long as they are accepted by some miner?

An additional fee means it'd cost more than other bytes in the TX.

Right, but this would still only work for default wallet behaviours yes? As fee calculations are not governed by consensus

I ask because stuffing the bee movie into the tx_garbage is already "nonstandard" behaviour so we could expect such a person to use nonstandard fees

someone minted one of the xmr posters onto bitcoin

blankpage: Nodes will not relay a tx that is below the minimum relay fee.

Rucknium: I suppose the minimum relay fee could be adjusted to ensure that some rule of "different fees for different data" is being followed, where you have rate x for most transaction data and rate y for tx_garbage data. I suspect this could be gamed in some way but I'll need to think about it more. Also of course, it encourages two tiers of transaction types which is bad for fungibility.

blankpage: There is already different rules for different data: Section 7.3.2 Dynamic Block Weight of web.getmonero.org/library/Zero-to-Monero-2-0-0.pdf

Is the minimum relay fee literally for relaying between nodes? So that it is not consensus and can be changed by nodes? Or is it really a "minimum fee to be validly included in a block" so that sending an illegally low fee txn to a miner would not produce a valid block?

"Since Bulletproofs were added (v8), transaction and block sizes are no longer considered strictly. The term used now is transaction weight. Transaction weight for a miner transaction (see Section 7.3.6), or a normal transaction with two outputs, is equal to the size in bytes. When a normal transaction has more than two outputs the weight is somewhat higher than the size."

A miner would have to have a specially-configured node to accept tx below minimum relay fee directly from a user, probably

About 50 txs were accidentally dropped from the network in the August hard fork since they were created before the new rules were enforced. AT the boundary.

Thanks for the reference. I guess this is to account for the computational burden of additional outputs being added and scanned/verified forever.

Those users would have to broadcast their tx under the new rules. Not a huge deal

minimum tx fee is for including tx in mempool

this is why 50 tx were dropped in August

of course tx with fee blow the minimum won't be relayed

because it won't be added to the mempool in the first place

sech1: Right. To blankpage 's question, technically a miner could decide to mine a tx that has a fee below the minimum, correct?

yes

it's possible to mine 0-fee tx

coinbase transactions (miner payouts) are 0-fee

but any regular transaction can be 0-fee, you just need to mine it yourself

or find a mining pool node that will accept it

The minimum fee rate could in theory be made a consensus rule (I.e. a condition of a block being valid), if it was decided that bypassing the disincentives to add huge txns in this way was a threat to the network?

sech1: ^^^^^

I guess it is pointless though as the miner could be the spammer

That's the idea

minimum fee doesn't matter for miners

because they mine this fee back to themselves

and get the block reward too

fee only matter for transactions relaying and rpc calls

Mining pools hardly want to mine txs even above the minimum fee, so...probably they won't configure their nodes specifically to take below-minimum txs.

enforcing min. fee on consensus level could help against a possible coalition of miners deciding to allow 0-fee transactions on their nodes

Seems it is not a perfect defence against a class of spam attacks, and the threat of those kinds of attacks is lessened by things like p2pool in any case

I think you cannot really spam low- or zero-fee txs to bloat the blockchain too much since users have to pay more to push the dynamic block size up. So you could spam within the current block size minimum, but not push above.

Or the miners would actually be reducing their revenue by including those tx since they have to sacrifice some of the 0.6 XMR block reward

miners could get off-chain compensation for this

but then again, it's not a 0-fee anymore for whoever pays for it

<blankpage[m]> "Seems it is not a perfect..." <- Ofc target, getting colder

Off*

>I think it's much nicer, if I say so myself

Its garbage

dsmlegend:

I think I will do as was suggested by the proposers. Perhaps this ccs should be closed for incompetence

> Discover Monero with this concise video series and learn about its features, benefits, and practical use as a merchant. Funded by anonymous Monero users who have experienced its advantages, this series aims to educate and inspire businesses to adopt Monero for secure and private transactions, free from middleman interference and hazards such as spying, freezing of funds, chargebacks, and deplatforming.

Context

Chatgpt and Monerobull already fixed the script.

Someone should ask chatgpt to grade it

(EMOTIONAL DAMAGE).

<monerobull[m]1> "synthesized_audio (3).mp3" <- ^

Chat got edits

* Chatgpt edits

ofrnxmr: You're full of shit mate, just quit it. I got a talented fiction author friend of mine to rewrite the entire thing. It's clearly a totally different style now but I had to know if you'd keep your angle if you thought it was still me. Now it's clear you really are just being a gadfly.

Normally safe to ignore, but you're poisoning the well against anyone else who may have otherwise given good feedback.

will the fiction author be rewriting the other 9 scripts?

4*

the animator needed help from their friend and the script write needed help from their friend?

> <@ofrnxmr:monero.social> > Discover Monero with this concise video series and learn about its features, benefits, and practical use as a merchant. Funded by anonymous Monero users who have experienced its advantages, this series aims to educate and inspire businesses to adopt Monero for secure and... (full message at <libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/do…52010a51df67003597666e8c21ea76f008f>)

"Monero's low, fixed fees" can we talk to the fiction author dsmlegend , fees are not fixed in monero

That's why it's so expensive

They are just hiring subcontractors and taking a nice cut 🫣

> <@dsmlegend:matrix.org> ofrnxmr: You're full of shit mate, just quit it. I got a talented fiction author friend of mine to rewrite the entire thing. It's clearly a totally different style now but I had to know if you'd keep your angle if you thought it was still me. Now it's clear you really are just being a gadfly.

>

> Normally safe to ignore, but you're poisoning the well against anyone else who may have otherwise given good feedback.

I dont care who wrote it, its the same garbage

monerobull[m]1: Monerobull, compare the text from yesterday re anonymous donors

Vs the text for today

ITS THE SAME DOG SHIT

dsmlegend: youre a pos scammer

I'll check it out later

Bull

The text I posted here, is the NEW onw

And dsmlegend: poisoning the well?

Nope.

Because of me, people are willing to tell you his bad it is without worrying about your feelings

All I had to do was post it as "my own" and voila

All of a sudden you arent so comfy in your 8000$ scam

Or wasnt it supposed to ve 18+k?

Yawn. Such a broken record for someone triggered by repetition.

Takes one to know one

<plowsof11> "will the fiction author be..." <- I will enlist any resource at my disposal. At my own expense, of course. Not asking for extra funds or anything, so I don't see why it's of relevance here (aside from revealing a personal bias aimed at me for some reason).

"Personal" 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

<plowsof11> ""Monero's low, fixed fees" can..." <- Yes, but the point is that the fee is fixed with respect to the amount transacted. This is contrasted with Visa that takes a percentage cut. See what I mean?

Fees are not fixed in monero sir

You're statement is false

s/You're/Your/

RTFM

the relevance is we need to know who is handling the feedback / writing the script for the ccs

"Flat fee"? "The first derivative of the fee with respect to the amount transacted is zero"?

a fictional author no less, can we get a factual one who knows about monero?

Rucknium[m]: Yes, thanks. Flat fee.

"Personal" 🥲

dsmlegend[m]: Incorrect

The fee levels arent fixed either

plowsof11: Obviously it's based on the provided source material and of course it's open for inspection in case inaccuracies have crept in. Quite surprised to see this pushback since the other day the takeway message was "get someone else who is good with English to rewrite it"

The size of the tx isnt the only modifier of the fee

The takeaway is "its garbage, wtf"

Read between the lines

Huh, good thing you're not the target audience anyway. You did get me to second-guess myself, I'll be honest. The Melbourne kabab shop guy who posted on r/Monero a few weeks back had high praise.

high praise for the original script in the animatic?

No, current script

This was from today

a few weeks back?

are you suggesting you didnt need to second guess yourself at any stage of this script writing process

its been 9 + months and now you're trying.

which i commend*

plowsof11: He posted on r/Monero a few weeks back. I asked him today.

if this is what we must endure for the next 4 scripts, well

plowsof11: They delay was because a superpower invaded the animator's city of residence in Ukraine. So things were on pause for a while. Don't know if you saw the news or anything.

i am aware of savandras situation. what stopped you from seeking feedback before the animatic was released or even earlier? youve been sat with the task of managing scripts since day one

obtaining*

There were six posts on reddit over that time, with almost no engagement. Only once the animatic came out did it start getting attention.

it is your job to obtain feedback / engagement

we've always been here

Hence the posts. Going to sleep now.

<plowsof11> "it is your job to obtain..." <- No, clearly thats my job 🐒

it is the opinion of Core that the marketing for the movie is fine. Some precedent was the sail with a Monero logo for a regatta (quite a long time ago). Please do not donate if you do not support the effort.

I wish there was a way to let donors see the movie though. Or maybe the relevant clip

15% of the film can be released without effecting oscar chances

geonic has asked donators - to contact them personally for a private ink before donating*

And 100% can be if it ______ I dont remembr? plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:

so if yo urelease 100% you MUST win an award (harder)

<luigi1111w> "it is the opinion of Core that..." <- what happened to "CCS funded things need to be open"

I am sure that was written with code in mind

indeed. Specifically the "Fireice Incident^tm"

geonic hinted at releasing a trailer* but we've had no updates on that yet

I asked him about it

e,g, something that would fall into the "15% of the film rule"

<luigi1111w> "it is the opinion of Core that..." <- Aka "were merging" ?

Translation/tldr

Sounds like "were merging"

its going to funding and we're going to the oscars

sounds more like we're

ofrnxmr[m] probably but not necessarily. The opinion is specifically about open source rule.

does it need to be officially released for the award clause to kick in

the movie has 2 years from release to qualify

what happens if it gets leaked

doesn't mean something that has very negative response would be merged

seems to me that the 2 milestones should be 2 different CCSs as the 2nd milestone might not be reached

luigi1111w: thanks for clarification

2 years from release to meet the criteria*

ofc I may be misreading it

nioc the 1st milestone can be achieved by cutting a cheque for 10k basically

and the second?

Geonic says its a sure bet

Because if they dont win an award they can also just pay to be played in a theatre for a week

plowsof11: Thats 2nd? No? Lemme check

buy a nomination with money*(100% chance of happening after cutting them a cheque) vs ' get an award' - costs less money but a movie deserving an oscar is going to get many of these awards

yeah think ive mixed them

ok ive mixed them up

badly

if the milestones need changing or any other structural things please let's.

the cheaper option , is ot Buy the nomination

the more expensive option - is to obtain an award

luigi1111w: have you seen the film

waiting for a new link. I loaded it then had to go traveling then it didn't work anymore.

so in theory we could still split the ccs up - e.g. Only option 2 "The film must be publicly exhibited for paid admission in a movie theater in Los Angeles or New York City for

one week:" (cheaper)

something to discuss at next meeting ehm

Buy the nomination (cheaper) - but these movies are 'not preffered' for winning an actual oscar

1 week in a theater, an oscar

I dont see how either of these benefit monero

me neither but consensus was not reached and core see the 'marketing' as fine we must accept this sirs

Pay per view as well. Who's watching

vik and doug will be watching

plowsof11: Votes are 7up/8down on gitlab

Upvotes are mostly by people who were shown the video before the ccs was created, and an alt 🥲

plowsof11: consensus was 7+1sockpuppet yes 8 no

there is no movie* this is only marketing* this is how our brains must accept this

name 1 oscar winning shortfilm you guys have watched

it doesnt do much at all for marketing

precedent of the sail thingy. our ancestors wanted this

And as far as paying for marketing.. this movie exploits a 16 year old, real, dead, kid

let me retract the "probably". The point I wanted to make was it is fine to do CCSes "like this" (i.e., doesn't violate open source rule). Merging is still dependent on the normal things.

ohh

Uh. As far as open source rule, lolz

CCS should be be for prop for profit non coding ventures

* CCS should be be for proprietary, for-profit, non coding ventures

Never be*

Unless they are paying the profits back to monero.

ofrnxmr[m]: ccs for PVC monerochan figures. takes about 50k USD

Lfg

Yacht fund was just approved sgp:

Sail, yacht, whats the diff

ofrnxmr[m]: dont worry, all donators get a 10% discount code when they go to buy the figure

Jet***** brainfreeze

<ofrnxmr[m]> Sail, yacht, whats the diff <= let's go!

We going to Monerokon in stylleee

:D

Need to make sure to charge for pilot and fuel etc as well

CCS to literally just get me a slushfund

well the boat doesn't run itself

i will handle marketing - imagine a grotesque eye ball floating above a circule coin with an M on it.. and someone whispers.. "Its like bitcoin, but untraceable" *fades to black* and then quicklly a pinapple flashes before the screen

pineapples have really grown on me

Why do people say donator when donor is shorter and is actually a real word?

can i charge 2k$ for the keanu reeves video

hiring keanu was expensive

the bill will be in the CCSs mail

if you don't know then you don't know !

Rucknium: 💀

Monerobull can write s better script than dsmlegend

donor feels like organs are involved but yeah i always type donator out of habbit

Even while using words like donator. Which is apparently a real word (googled), mostly used in law

ofrnxmr[m]: (Animated videos. And correction, the new script was written by somebody with the same level of writing skills)

plural donators

i will add to the meeting agenda : is donator a real word

🤔 " 'Donator' is so rare that it is almost not a word. :-). I checked Google ngram viewer. Donor is approximately 10,000 times more common thatn donator. Donator has always been very rare, but it was more common at the end of the 19th century, esp around 1880."

Maybe it's technically a word.

donors

Detonator

organ donator

Donationer

lol

here we say organ donor

doner kebabs

Spender

yeah organ donor feels universal

no, I need mine

And don't get me started on donee

Whale

lol

Lease them out

I was talking organs

It is an organ

there was just a news article that 90% of news will be written by AI by 2025

wonder if AI wrote that

2025?

it will be earlier

all other content too

now we just need proper holograms

Like a big piano, yknow, an organ

that's like saying a ukulele is a bass

more off topic please

have you seen my video nioc

with the ai voice

I saw 2 that you posted yesterday

excellent

they are both chatgpt + ai voice

once an AI is created that can surpass my skills at taking care of cats then I will no longer have a reason for being

you know, there are self-cleaning litterboxes & self filling water/food bowls

there is so much more to do

and the self feeders can't do what I do

'news' written by 'AI' - lol - human stupidity knows no bounds

Probably more accurate

Anybody going to FOSDEM?

<DanIsnotthemanBr> "ima_412176d.jpeg" <- bro

all he wants is your taxes

we have a monerochan version

I am a wager, I have to pay taxes

you know one place where you dont

monerosupplies.com 😳

I laugh every time i see the "taxes" statistic on my woocommerce dashboard

./s

((unless)) 😳

<monerobull[m]1> "we have a monerochan version" <- “Need we want you”one

there are versions without text mega.nz/folder/JSYUlZrY#CxTF5PTJKcWIPt7qzduHzQ/folder/Fahm3K4L

gents, whats a non meme way for a noobie to get monero with no kyc

the fees are insane

what im trying to avoid like the plague is kyc and jew fees

*i type in a website that im ready to spend 65$ for some monero*

*website tells me how much monero im getting*

*google AMOUNT_OF_MONERO to USD and see that the monero im getting is worth 30 dollars*

getchyo stanky ass on boye

i did a paypal 1:1 trade as well as a steam 1:1 trade

but i kinda knew the paypal guy before and the steam person just wanted to buy the 50 cent netflix/vpn accounts on alphabay and sent me the code first

what type of fees idiot?

nioc: come on why do that

we all frends here :3

yes, why do that?

i see

Using a credit card to buy monero loo

i mean im getting shit trade prices across the board

the worst thing about crypto for me is that YOU are absolutely forced to trade with people and there is nothing you can do about it

shit greedy jew people

Huh?

Localmonero

Not forced to do anything

> <@ricknmortyfckingretard:halogen.city> *i type in a website that im ready to spend 65$ for some monero*

> *website tells me how much monero im getting*

> *google AMOUNT_OF_MONERO to USD and see that the monero im getting is worth 30 dollars*

That quick answers bs google feature is inaccurate. Either use duckduckgo or visit a website that displays real rate.

Too lazy

24/25 needs answers NOW

Siren[m]: its even worse when i go to an individual site

Sir, this is not about a bad jew

Well fuck

Maths no good

ofrnxmr[m]: literal scam

i want to pay 65 usd and best they can do is 30 dollar worth monero

You're a literal clown?

<nioc> "what type of fees idiot?" <- its the options im getting with the payment methods

Which method are you using 🤡

im not gonna argue with some 3rd world monke, so thats my last message to you ofrnxmr

If localmonero is a scam, youre a clown

So what method did you choose, sir clown that uses scam websites?

Sir, do you really use Google to find monero exchange rates? Sir doesnt have a calculator?

And Sir complains about their payment method, wants to Dodge KYC, only trade on a "scam" website, and IM the monkey? 🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒🐒

Sounds like something a monkey would say

You have a problem, dont want solutions

Would like a clown monkey

Sound*

if anyone has a non meme site with no kyc, then feel free to send it here if not then im done with crypto lmao

ricknmortyfcking did you try localmonero?

<ricknmortyfcking> "literal scam..." <- ^^^

Clown mobkey

as2333: localmonero is a "literal scam" < says the clown

oh well

i hope i spelled february correct 11th Saturday next meeting monero-project/meta #791

looks good but imma ill literate

Im going to donation to all ccs

Especially the bad ones

Revuo Monero. Issue 157: January 26 - February 2, 2023. revuo-xmr.com/issue-157.html

this bounty was funded anonomously by the community of those who have enjoyed and experienced the monero coin which is based on its internal currency called xmr (sovereign) : bounties.monero.social/posts/75/5-5…3m-blake2b-c-dev-challenge-seraphis

this makes me happy

(the text above is tongue and cheek, but yeah, love to see this!)

hi all

since the XMRmemes website is gone I put a replacement up at moneromemes.com

it is ready if anyone would like to try it out

plowsof11: you are becoming too useful