<j​effro256:monero.social> Received! Thank you

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Meeting today in

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Meeting today in .... a cliffhanger? :)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 7 hours and 13 minutes ? 15:00 utc

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Needed to do some maths sorry

Some bridge minor info, checked on matrix-appservice-irc to run without some of the "painful" features, to prevent much message loss, but seems they still happen regardless. Was not able to look into heisenbridge much more, but should at least make it easier on the Matrix side presence-wise

Still same issues having the matrix bot to properly join the Haveno channels, but I can schedule a restart later in the weekend to try again

<r​brunner7:monero.social> Could this mean that those message loss problems are probably not just a case of "particular bridge software has a problem", but that they continue to happen for more fundamental reasons?

I was testing the EMS bridge software (matrix-appbridge-irc), so far the current one (matterbridge) has no message loss, just standard matrix delay

so matrix-appbridge-irc showed similar issues to EMS run instance, otherwise to run this properly you need a large IPv6 space to place users under it

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Well, looks like I won't be able to attend the community meeting tomorrow

it can do without, afaik, but then that can get into limits on the IRC net.

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Well, looks like I won't be able to attend the community meeting in a few hours

recanman you've acted on the previous meetings' feedback and temp closed the bitejo proposal to confirm that monero-php would be your priority

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Yes

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I've already made a few PRs

Awesome! I can be your alt in the meeting today

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Thank you very much

Monero-gui verified status @ flathub has made progress.. some things need to be figured out still but it is moving along thanks to bigmenpixel who is receiving help from selsta

DataHoarder: matrix-org.github.io/matrix-appserv…on.html#allowunconnectedmatrixusers did you make sure to enable this per room? I'm not sure if you have to also do this on a self hosted EMS bridge but it was necessary previously to avoid messages being dropped

Also testing their archive user that always joins that fixes some of these issues, but would need to test wider otherwise

I spun a local network with several services to test that, maybe should do a smaller scale one in libera

I am not that comfortable with their code to look around at least

<s​unchakr:monero.social> Join us like in 20 mins!

<s​unchakr:monero.social> x.com/monerotopia/status/1692716158745448838?s=46

Meeting time monero-project/meta #871#issuecomment-1676793245

greetings! we have a functional bridge today thanks to DataHoarder

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> any recent community highlights to discuss while we wait for others to drop in?

<c​trej:matrix.org> hello

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> CypherStack have given feedback on the latest BP++ paper which MRL have to discuss (so things finally moving in the correct direction there). We also have a more detailed scope of work to be done for the Seraphis papers which Jbreman/Koe/Kayabanerve helped create, if MRL are happy with that then i can start reaching out again for quotes.

<d​adajo:monero.social> hi

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> kycnot.me 3rd anniversary update reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/15mja0k/kycnotme_3rd_anniversary_update. the transparency point is interesting. Now all discussions are in public on GitLab... so i can't email pluja to tell them beta.kycnot.me seems offline, have to make an issue xD

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> hello

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Cake web pay is back online (however the selection seems very limited / no country specific things and the virtual mastercard offer looks to be US only)

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> hi

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Any other highlights 🤔 Active News: - [Revuo Monero](revuo-xmr.com) - [The Monero Standard](localmonero.co/the-monero-standard)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> we can jump into the 3 issues to discuss if everyone here is ok with that

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> oh, a 5 months payout delay for the debian maintainer , oops, should be fixed next week, srry

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> now then 😓

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> c. [recanman to take over Monero integrations pt. 3](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/402) bitejo proposal temporarily closed confirming priority of this task + SerHacks approval

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> recanman said he couldnt make it to todays meeting. The previous meeting resulted in him needing to clarify that monero-php will be his priority by temporarily closing one of them. he has since closed the bitejo one and already made some pull requests

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the merge request text is here : repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…roposals/-/merge_requests/402/diffs

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 5 months to show reasonable progress or he gets booted / we find someone else. SerHack has to approve/merge things for it to be considered completed.. no extra funds required to be raised, simply handed over to recanman if the community approves it

<d​adajo:monero.social> will the funds be handed over after 5months or right away?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> only upon milestones completed

<d​adajo:monero.social> did he set own milestones or will just do the previous ones? (sorry if I'm not up 2 date)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> here are some pull requests he has made already github.com/monero-integrations/monerophp/pulls (so i doubt the '5 months to actually do something' will be needed)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> previous ones

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the original proposer serhack has gave permission to hand it over. and .e.g. this pull request has already been approved monero-integrations/monerophp #142 so recanman is capable of completing this task for us

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> just need people to vote merge or not

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> no idea how much my vote is worth, because I'm a noob, but I'd say merge

<d​adajo:monero.social> same here :) if I can vote I would say merge as well

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i have a COI because this will resolve a proposal in "purgatory" and make it look like ive done something good

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Merging sounds like a good idea to me :)

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Maybe this is an "alignment" of interests, not a conflict ;)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> but its a merge from me if that counts 😄

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> seems like there is not much demand

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> monero-php is used by monero wordpress / serhack stated on twitter recently about a surge in support emails

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> *from the ccs side of things

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i like that way of putting this

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> im impartial as always though

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> ok lets put it as merge and move on

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> d. [Add retroactive funding proposal for FCMPs](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403) merge

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> seems the community expressed an interest in merging this already

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> didnt see anyone complain in the MRL meeting when Rucknium brought this(and Boogs) up / only see support in the comments

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> shall we leave it as being handled / waiting to be merged and move on?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> pending kayabanerve / rates (i notice alot of $ amounts used)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> f. [Boog900 full time work on Cuprate, the Rust Monero node (2 months)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/405) merge

<c​trej:matrix.org> if no one has complains I'd say merge

<s​pirobel:monero.social> great

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> Boog has clarified that its not "2 months" and jeffro256 has even offered support

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i would say that proposal has had all loose ends tied now / waiting for merge

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> (ofrnxmr and geonic are not banned from here BTW)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> shall we move on?

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> the funding math is wrong :D

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> for Boog?

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> 45$ * 50hr/week * 8 weeks = $18,000

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> 18,000 / 161 is 111 not 120

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> 2 months is a little more than 8 weeks but yeah

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> yeah just being pedantic

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> boog900: should be able to figure it out, not the end of the world. my calendar has 90 days in 1 month

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> lets move on as "merge as is"

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> merge boog/kayaba/recanman - delete everything else - i want an empty ideas page on monday

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> luigi1111 pls

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> moving on

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> good luck to boog - thats a lot to do in 2 months

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> g. [Kastelo update request (+hardware⊙go access)](repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/issues/69) / monero-project/meta #879

Kastelo enclosures were distributed at Defcon.

They ran out in the second day, similar to what happened at Konferenco.

We received requests for more over emails, as well as other requests relating to the testing program.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> there was also a more detailed comment on reddit (which contained an update) can't find it atm

No development has occured this month.

<c​trej:matrix.org> for clarification "distributed" means given away for free, right?

Yes, they were free of charge for the people receiving them.

<c​trej:matrix.org> 👍

There was a similar (but unpublished) event in Paris last month as well.

Some of this was already published on the hardware channels, remember to read #monero-hardware if you are particularly interested.

Are there any questions about Kastelo or related Monero Hardware projects?

<c​trej:matrix.org> What is the latest update on the electronics hardware/firmware? Where is the progress published?

<c​trej:matrix.org> I'm completely out of the loop about that, because it started before I was active in the community

There is no progress on electronics, unless those who are adding features want to give a report.

The current state of electronic design (schematic and layout) is the same as the official release as the project concluded.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> are you confident that you will be able to complete any of the milestones in the FFS?

All the original design parts are available (after they became temporarily unavailable due to Suez, Pandemic, and supply chain collapses) so there is no reason to modify the bill of materials.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> if not already?

If you mean RFC-HWALLET-3, then the question is misguided because it concluded with all (100%) requirements met. If you mean RFC-HWALLET-5 then about 50-75% have been met and confidence is high of the remaining yes.

ctrej: A lot of progress for RFC-HWALLET-5 was lost in database crashes, so we're not using the official system for any work. Instead, it's on site at events mostly, with some email, IRC, and other RTC communication.

A lot of work has been reassigned from control by the Monero community to non Monero contractors (over 90% community has abandoned their work) so there is probably a lot of reporting in non Monero channels as well.

Some other Monero related hardware projects were showcased at Konferenco, but I think their authors are not here to give status or progress reports.

For example, we saw a very primitive ATM in the sponsor hall (Studio 2.)

We had other ATMs there as well, very refined and in distribution. But they don't support any Monero blockchain so are not relevant for this agenda item.

That's all for Monero hardware, dankon and we can move one plowsof.

<c​trej:matrix.org> XMR ATM for those who are interested, the entire thing is open source

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> from Digilol yes. thank you the the update on Kastelos progress.

Ne dankinde (you're welcome.)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> now moving on to the "deprecate hardware⊙go" email issue , have you followed any of the concerns or want to respond msvb-lab?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i personally would like it to be deprecated asap, and also question why you have a personal getmonero account , reserved only for members of core / high status

<m​ichael:monero.social> I just gave a Monero Hardware and Kastelo report using IRC. If you missed it due to technology flaws in bridging, please get an IRC log for #monero-community.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> michael⊙go belongs to you correct?

Yes, that's an email address that I use. Since about four or five years.

I don't have any information about deprecating email addresses, so there is no information from me.

Is there a proposal to deprecate all (email, IRC, matrix, Mattermost, mailing list...) our channels or only the one email address?

And what does deprecate mean, if the proposal succeeds will there be any damage or destruction to our communication systems?

<c​trej:matrix.org> monero-project/meta #879

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> simply disable the email address

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> or have some transparency (which we have none at the moment)

I can't defend the email address from disablement, damage, or destruction. But I can defend all the other communication methods from being disabled.

Because I'm not the administrator for the email in question.

I just answer it, on a weekly basis.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> people can look into the email issue if they wish in their free time (events also) - we have reached the hour , thank you all for attending

All the email fraud is happening on the mailing list (monero-hardware⊙lgo rather than hardware⊙go) so it seems a bit absurd to try to destroy the one that is clean and productive. Not sure what advantage we are seeking here.

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> events meeting is in 1 hour

Okay plowsof, dankon everyone for a good meeting.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> plowsof: What is the next step with Cypherstack and the BP++ revieww?

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> the feedback we have (detailing out of scope things) - if MRL are ok with all those things not being in the audit - and if the original scope of work / agreement written for the other paper still applies now - return to cypherstack to see if the cost of the work has changed - return to MRL - then move forward

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> does that sound good?

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Yes. I guess we'll have to wait for the cryptographers to return to MRL meetings for that first step.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> koe, kayaba, and/or tevador

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> tevador was/is active in #monero-pow:monero.social recently

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i forgot to share jeffro256's idea/method for having a light wallet server with no* privacy drawbacks (just a 25% bigger address) gist.github.com/tevador/50160d160d2…ment_id=4665372#gistcomment-4665372 (shared in the no-wallet-left-behind room)

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> do we neet to audit "jamtis"? 😄

audit all da things!

plowsof needs an audit!

<b​oog900:monero.social> I did 8.6 weeks

<p​lowsof:matrix.org> i will hold the water dowsing sticks and direct the auditors to the jet fund

why would I be banned :p. I’m not banned in -events either, just voluntarily quiet.

a deal is a deal.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm about to take off, but I did want to check what you found "pending" plowsof @plowsof:matrix.org:

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Sounds like potentially nothing given you seemed to recommend merging? :D

<c​trej:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/UOhbyGXhhNUJZUmfJKXSUXYG

ofrn’s polite alt chiming in

Such an obsession with calling "alts" out. Wonder if it's projection.

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> i should have said nothing, boog sent github after me

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> (my account just got flagged and all my repos are gone)

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> What??

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> What?

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> i'm not sure either

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> I guess contact github back

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> almost 99% because i use tor but who knows

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> This was because of the license issues with the rust node? I didn't read

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> oh no there's no relation

<b​oog900:monero.social> Snitch, matrix will be next

<s​needlewoods_xmr:matrix.org> recanman: btw thank you for featuring a meme I made in Monero Standard #66

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Of course

<r​ecanman:agoradesk.com> Thanks for reading it

<c​trej:matrix.org> geonic, time zones are a thing. Look at when I post, its clear that I am EU based. Look at when ofrn posts, its clear that he is US based.

cool story

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> boog900: i will try merging the vanity pr now, sorry for the 4 month wait

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> its been a busy year but now since i can't access ci its the perfect opportunity

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> (totally not because im scared of getting flagged again)

<a​js_:matrix.org> can across this... Monero and the Privacy Doom Principle - youtube.com/watch?v=yq_cOVHr8Pg

<a​js_:matrix.org> presenter claims if the correct output in a transaction is guessed, Monero privacy is completely broken

<r​ucknium:monero.social> ajs_: I didn't watch it, but...yes. That's why so much effort goes into decoy selection. Decoys must be credible. They must look like the real thing to play their role properly to prevent correct guessing.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> If you can correctly guess every real spend in every ring signature (AFAIK, not possible under any assumptions), then the Monero transaction graph is "transparent". Even with ring signatures defeated, there are still stealth addresses, which de-link a specific publicly available address from any particular output.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Maybe I should watch the video, but I think someone brought it up before and said machine learning can also defeat statistical obfuscation. That's just plain wrong. There are limits to what statistical analysis can do. We've known some of the limits for decades.

plowsof: are you proposing only one @getmonero.org email get disabled, or a few?

btw, I commented on one of the ccs proposals that were discussed today: repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/403