<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Cake, Trocador & Coinscard are limited to 1K

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> Bitrefill is a joke for that purpose

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> As for KYC

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> It's there because if how CC work, they KYC you at bank and it's used when you pay with a CC

<g​fdshygti53:monero.social> But for prepaid card, it's "soft" KYC, as you can put different info but you have to use the same info when you use said cc

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> Try PlasBit. Limit is upto $100K.

<c​trej:matrix.org> not your keys, not your coins

<c​trej:matrix.org> ftx was not a surprise, but the expected outcome

<j​essica_77:matrix.org> Can you send me the block explorer of xmr? Thank you so much

Exploremonero.com xmrchain.net

<k​4r4b3y:karapara.net> also this one: yucmgsbw7nknw7oi3bkuwudvc657g2xcqah…bjyewazusyytapqo4xid.onion/explorer

<a​tomfried:matrix.org> does monero perform hole-punching to p2p connect clients?

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> O

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> NO

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> response to yesterday's meeting - I believe the rate is reasonable, it is the same as or less than others working full-time. It's hard to guarantee how long it will take to finish the database, although, I added back onto the last milestone that 3 months of work must be done - leftover hours will be used to work on the next thing needed for Cuprate - i.e. if the database takes 428<clipped message>

<h​into.janaiyo:matrix.org> ~ hours to complete, I will continue to work for 100~ more hours to complete the last milestone repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…e7cf83b8bbeec79e34ecd34ef99177b4628

<c​hch3003:monero.social> I did post there but no answer. Can you contact me?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I missed this yesterday yet feel a need to respond.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> From my point of view, which I hold unequivocally, the Monero Project nor the Monero Community have funded any part of Serai development and have no claim to Serai.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Serai is only expected to provide an offering to its community, largely made up of Monero community members. While that causes a lot of Monero-specific work, and I chose to support Monero from the start out of my personal belief in Monero, that does not make us a Monero project or in anyway indebted.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> If Monero development, including Cuprate, ends up using Serai's work, it's a testament to the independent value of Serai and my/our efforts to ensure our work contributes back to larger ecosystems. It's in no way positioning Serai, nor any work underneath it, as an under-Monero development effort.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> If Monero development, including Cuprate, ends up developing something underneath Serai further, it's a comment Serai has provided so much quality work there's no need to rebuild the wheel. It is Serai saving Monero time and money. It is not Monero funding Serai.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There is a discussion I've had with a few people for the Monero community, in some form, to fund an audit of monero-serai due to its stated intention of being a generally usable library, its specific multisig properties (more and more meaningful post-CCS compromising), and its usage by Cuprate. That specifically would be the Monero project funding a project underneath Serai, moner<clipped message>

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> o-serai, a project intended to be a public good to the Monero community.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> The only expectation conferred with that would be that monero-serai would continue to be such a public good. Since Serai already offers it as a public good, Serai already offers such a "kickback" to Monero.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> To expect further of Serai or to demerit Serai as not offering "kickbacks" (an entire Rust impl of the TX protocol which caused identification of multiple bugs in the ecosystem means nothing apparently) is appropriating and ignorant.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I don't hold this against plowsof, as they were playing devil's advocate, yet I need to be clear about my position here.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Holy sh*t batman

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> *have not funded any part

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Important typo there, sorry.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I just want to be excessively blunt about that given how some vocal people believe that when a project affiliates with their community, said project must make decisions per their community.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Serai may/will make decisions not aligned with Monero if aligned with Serai. When that comes, I want no one to believe Serai was supposed to be 100%-aligned with Monero on every topic (vs very aligned in general as a matter of agreement on ethos) and I don't want to have to deal with anyone claiming we were "a Monero project".

<b​oog900:monero.social> I just want to add that anyone can look at the PRs I've made to Serai: github.com/serai-dex/serai/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3ABoog900

<b​oog900:monero.social> apart from small bug fixes, mostly which I needed to fix for Cuprate, I have only made 2 "big" contributions to monero-serai:

<b​oog900:monero.social> - legacy tx support

<b​oog900:monero.social> - legacy signature verifying

<b​oog900:monero.social> I added legacy tx support before my current CCS, and AFAIK Serai does not need legacy signature verifying.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'll still concede the development upstreamed was funded by the Monero community as part of Cuprate's development. It just wasn't requested nor will it be used by Serai.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> It does further justify potential future requests for funding (re: an audit), enabling a long discussion. My views are already above.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Pardon my ignorance but instead of reimplementing into rust wouldn’t it be better to reallocate to making seraphis node instead?

<a​tomfried:matrix.org> a node needs to be able to verify the whole chain, not only the newest hardfork

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Are you suggesting serai should be forked as you don’t need those parts ?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> polar9669: Cuprate already has a fork of monero-serai they make tweaks to and depend on. They just PR it back upstream, meaning:

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 1) It's more accessible

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 2) I review their changes

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> 3) Serai takes responsibility for it

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There's no need for Serai to ignore their PRs. I'm fine accepting the scope as a service to Monero, even if if isn't directly a service to Serai.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm not calling for anything to change. I'm calling out plowsof: 's devil's advocate that Serai doesn't "kickback" and that the Monero community is 'funding Serai' (both I firmly reject).

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, clarifying, it's a bit more than tweaks. Legacy TXs was a whole thing. Credit to boog900: for that, and sorry for initially making it sound much smaller.

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I understand that, do we need to remake it into rust as well or look at the next iteration of monero?

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Other question are the other devs going to contribute also ? If another node was made

<a​tomfried:matrix.org> i think the goal of Cuprate is to have a full validating node writen in rust, i do not think that once this is achieved development just stops there, but i guess the guys from Cuprate can answer that better

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Yeah. Was going too say maintaining it aswell is the other question

<a​tomfried:matrix.org> well i guess one hope is that rust attracts more developers because it is an awesome language to write in :)

<a​tomfried:matrix.org> there are a lot of people out there who want to be payed for writing rust so maybe monero can attract some of those :)

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Understandable, ccs isn’t funding serai exchange as such for kickbacks ; if you ever feel the need to donate you would be doing it anonymously 😀

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> Dex tax

<p​olar9669:matrix.org> Sounds like dev tax 😂

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I won't earn fees from serai due to my position as a dev

<1​23bob123:matrix.org> I was joking -.-

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Just clarifying :p

<b​oog900:monero.social> I personally don't want to work on major dev work for monero-core in C++.

<b​oog900:monero.social> I think the value of an alternative node is significant though, here is an example of a bug I found in monero-core during my last CCS:

<b​oog900:monero.social> monero-project/monero #9013

<b​oog900:monero.social> Thats up for them to decide, I would hope so though.

<b​oog900:monero.social> I will be able to work on Cuprate for the foreseeable future, and I can't see Cuprate lacking maintainers when it gets going.

What is Cuprate?

<b​oog900:monero.social> a WIP alternative Monero node: github.com/Cuprate/cuprate

cool

Tldr: unban ofrnxmr

Would have avoided this 🐒

"serai doesnt kickback" << who does? Haveno was false advertising

Kaya, not so much to worry about. Its almost a random tuesday

Maybe sgp will grow up by then

And let hinto eat

as i said at meeting, feather/tobtoht:monerocore is a similar situation to cuprate/hinto:monerocore. Even if feather doesnt find issues, we fund an alternate impl

I also dont like when ppl larp about 428 hrs

You using a punch clock? Timing your washroom breaks?. I prefer $:value. Like fcmp. Idc if it was 1hr/day or 14. I care about cost of delivery and cost of components

Looking at whats being offered, vs what others such as boog, kaya, detherminal, and folks in seraphis WG deliver, price looks too high. like 30-50% too high. But I've still not taken the time to confirm the workload or try to resolve any discrepancies. Its not rust politics, its the question if 23k for work from home self accounted "hours"? Reminds

me of when hinto tried to claim pay was 3$/hr working 24hrs/day. (the obvious lie being 24hrs/day and not actually willing to work at $3/hr. Just misrepresenting for no reason)

So i dont want to hear mumbojumbo about 420 hrs here and 69 hrs there. Weight of work = price paid . If a dev can do "3 months of work" in 3 weeks, then they deserve just as much pay as if they stretched it out. question is: what is this ccs worth. According to you, 100/500hrs might not be needed, thats close to 30% over rate

(ofrnxmr.. thats 20%) close enough

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Sorry, bit out of the loop. I've seen detherminal briefly prior but I'm unaware of their work. Do they have a CCS/contributions to Seraphis?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I'm also unaware of what the hinto drama there is, yet I'm immediately more curious in why detherminal qualified as notable (as I'm not offended by $9/hr and don't care to research drama rn).

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Not to say dethermimal shouldn't be notable. To say I'm unaware why/how they are and am curious.

Afaik theu havent requested any funding but they have been working on cuprate

Iirc detherminal work for or with cypherstack (please correct me if wrong)

For folks in seraphis, referring to people like ghostway, sneedlewoods and dangerousfreedom

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> I don't believe they work for Cypher Stack.

<b​oog900:monero.social> detherminal has been implementing CryptoNight in Rust

Maybe was just helping cypherstack or maybe im mixing up 2 people

<b​oog900:monero.social> I think hintos CCS is fair, asking for hourly pay is not the exception, a lot of proposals do this. I think having the minimum work guarantee is a good compromise, hinto has to deliver the DB and do 3 months work to get the last milestone, yes we have to trust hinto to actually do the amount of hours they say but thats just the nature of the CCS. The 100 hours was just an example.

Lets kill the hours thing

If were talking about delivering the db - how much would your ccs for just the db work be, boog?

How much xmr (not how much time)