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<exolix:matrix.org> I agree, the key to Monero's success lies in the involvement of each individual.
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<exolix:matrix.org> It's crucial to encourage retail platforms to adopt XMR for payments, highlighting its benefits and opportunities. Doing so will not only broaden Monero's applicability but also facilitate its incorporation into daily transactions
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<exolix:matrix.org> By uniting our efforts, we can transform Monero from merely a valuable asset into a practical currency for everyone's use.
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<kjeks:matrix.org> One thing I have in mind, is building an app like uber but only for crypto payments. But since I don't have enough programming skills for that, I'll leave this idea here so you smartasses can implement it. I'm fine not getting rich anyways
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<kjeks:matrix.org> That kind of app/service is what we need, becacuse government simply can't fight against. I remember many countries tried to ban uber but many couldn't because its kind of decentralized. Now imagine an app fully decentralized and private with monero payments...
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<kjeks:matrix.org> Please do it guys 🫠🫠
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<exolix:matrix.org> Sometime back in 2021, Uber wanted to accept payments in crypto, but it seems that it just remained an idea
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<exolix:matrix.org> Sometime back in 2021, Uber wanted to accept payments in crypto, but it seems that it just remained an idea
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<exolix:matrix.org> The full list of coins was not specified.
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<kjeks:matrix.org> I guess they figured out that the transaction fees would be more expensive than many ride fares itself...
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<rottenwheel:kernal.eu> Is it though? 🤔
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<dancer:monero.social> which day? which night?
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<dancer:monero.social> I've already figured out my best way to authenticate you is through music. Try to dupe me
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<dancer:monero.social> oh this is not our chat nvm
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<dancer:monero.social> they say these words... "infighting."
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<dancer:monero.social> Words have been said "noisy freedom"
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<dancer:monero.social> And still.. what's your paper? In a room where people have a purpose?
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<321bob321:monero.social> 00
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<examare:matrix.org> Well, if I squint real hard and use wishful filters it does! 😞
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<rottenwheel:kernal.eu> Mind linking me up? I thought RINO was just a KYC-free, multisig, web solution for average users and then a business, paid section for those who need it. Cc. ajs_
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<examare:matrix.org> RINO's Terms of Service "2.2. As part of the registration process, or as part of your continued use of the Services, you may be required to provide personal information about yourself (such as identification or contact details), including: ......"🤓
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<rottenwheel:kernal.eu> May be... Not must. Sounds like KYC shotgun, not enforced at first step. 😉
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<rottenwheel:kernal.eu> Chances are you might use it without providing any documentation. Not ideal, but not KYC proper as far as I can tell.
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<examare:matrix.org> Possible honeytrap with shotgun kyc, I no like!
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<dancer:monero.social> stop fucking with rottenwheel
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<dancer:monero.social> rotten go
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<examare:matrix.org> I ❤️ rottenwheel but don't wanna fuck, lol
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<dancer:monero.social> I'm so sorry on behalf of rottenwheel he says you're a cool guy and would suck your dick if you just admitted you're wrong this time
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<dancer:monero.social> i would say "are yo serious?" you've just been a clown for me and mine. Go on... joke on.. you're done here. boring.
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<dancer:monero.social> bye bye
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<examare:matrix.org> I feel honored, but I have to stick with my opinion and distain with possible Know Your Cock policies!
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<dancer:monero.social> bye bye
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<rottenwheel:kernal.eu> How dare you! KYC helps us deter devil terrorists and money launderers!
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<dancer:monero.social> xD
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<dancer:monero.social> this is the best group. for many reasons
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> They still can’t rug your funds. If they shotgun, you can withdraw using your 2/3.
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> Though i don’t know if there are any wallets that let you do that.
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> Maybe cli?
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<examare:matrix.org> Are you sure RINO website collects no telemetry? I dont like!
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> Every website collects telemetry. Even onion sites.
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<examare:matrix.org> exactly...call me paranoid but I say No to webwallets
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> It’s a much more advanced wallet than any of the others
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<snowman:tetaneutral.net> Apples and oranges to really even compare it to anything else
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<examare:matrix.org> I agree, but they should offer standalone and offline model, for Merchant use it's excellent
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<ajs_:matrix.org> eXaMaRe: RINO is 2/3 multisig wallet and they do not have control over user funds. Users could use their key and the “recovery” key they created (client side) with Monero cli wallet to restore the wallet and transfer out funds to another wallet without RINO’s involvement.
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dEBRUYNE
examare: RINO does not have KYC as far as I know. They do however hold one of the three keys for a 2/3 multisig
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plowsof
Another 100 xmr donation to the general fund
twitter.com/WatchFund/status/1776099292626735522 escapethe3ra
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<examare:matrix.org> OK you cant loose you xmr, but not a realistic multisig solution for the more security minded Monero gentleman 🎩
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<monerobull:matrix.org> i always thought musig for personal security is silly
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<monerobull:matrix.org> just use a strong passphrase
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<monerobull:matrix.org> why bother taking care of multiple seeds
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plowsof
Theres always a trade off between use and lose
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<examare:matrix.org> I dont think it's silly, for peice of mind, it make sense to me to have at least a 2/3 multisig for substantial holding. It's a personal choice and no one is forced to use.
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plowsof
The teaser videos from tobtoht showing musig wallet creation look quick/simple. I suppose 2/3 for personal usage is just for redundancy.. its OK if you lose one of the wallets or it gets compromised. A passphrase , entered onto a hardware wallet is great but of we go back in time we can point to instances where plugging in a ledger leaked the seed
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plowsof
without any user input on a compromised machine.. no solution is perfect , sorry for the echo
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<monerobull:matrix.org> imo it adds unnecessary complexity
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<monerobull:matrix.org> youre way more likely to mess up somewhere with a multisig than with a secure passphrase
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<aremor:matrix.org> eXaMaRe: without multi-sig, you have a single point of failure
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<monerobull:matrix.org> imo multisig only makes sense when multiple people are involved
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<aremor:matrix.org> without multi-sig, you have a single point of failure
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<monerobull:matrix.org> id argue if you have properly tested that you can restore from the seed youve backed up, its way less likely for you to loose access to the funds than if you have to take care of a multisig and multiple seeds
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<monerobull:matrix.org> you can have backups at multiple locations just like with a multisig but you can keep the same content on those backups, drastically simplifying things
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<aremor:matrix.org> The value of multi-sig is neither to improve restoring nor simplicity.
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<aremor:matrix.org> The value is security: preventing others from getting your keys.
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<aremor:matrix.org> If you bury a single-sig somewhere and someone else finds it, they have all of your funds. If they instead find 1 of a 2 of 3, they basically have nothing.
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<aremor:matrix.org> monerobull:
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<monerobull:matrix.org> thats why im saying secure passphrase
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<monerobull:matrix.org> if someone finds one of my seeds its either a throwaway wallet or one thats encrypted with a passphrase
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<aremor:matrix.org> You’ve seen the passwords that people choose. You think people should be trusted to use a secure passphrase?
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plowsof
Dyslexic people need security too
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<aremor:matrix.org> Half the people I know are using someone’s birthday as passwords
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<monerobull:matrix.org> you think people should be trusted with setting up a secure multisig via the CLI wallet?
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<aremor:matrix.org> Their own birthday even
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<aremor:matrix.org> The UX should improve
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<321bob321:monero.social> 1234
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<aremor:matrix.org> The process with coldcard and steel places is not bad
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<monerobull:matrix.org> imo the most noob-friendly and secure way to set up a wallet is either trezor safe 3 + passphrase only entered on the trezor or an airgapped, encrypted PC with featherwallet + anon-nero qr signing
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<aremor:matrix.org> The process with coldcard and steel plates is not bad
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<aremor:matrix.org> I can’t trust ledger or Trezor for anything security related monerobull
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<monerobull:matrix.org> multisig is pretty advanced and now you have to take good care of way more data
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<monerobull:matrix.org> feather + airgap it is
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<aremor:matrix.org> More data that is useless if not enough of the different storage locations are compromised.
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<examare:matrix.org> I've been using a btc 2/3 mulisig for 3 years now...and my stress levels have diminished ☺️
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<aremor:matrix.org> Still single points of failure
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<monerobull:matrix.org> your single point of failure is the passphrase
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<monerobull:matrix.org> if you cant even properly secure a single passphrase, you cant be online
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<aremor:matrix.org> I plan to do like a 3 of 5, bury in random places, and then dig them up periodically to make sure they’re still there
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<monerobull:matrix.org> id be more worried about loosing parts of the multisig and thus access than my passphrases getting breached
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<321bob321:monero.social> its ok plowsolf keeps one for me
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<monerobull:matrix.org> its very rare that someone who doesnt enter their seed online gets drained and from the few cases ive seen it was because they left their unencrypted (no passphrase) seed laying around or the government forced them at gunpoint
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<examare:matrix.org> Trust me, when xmr hits $5K the stress levels will be high!
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<321bob321:monero.social> rip luigii
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<monerobull:matrix.org> my stress levels will be high when serai launches
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<aremor:matrix.org> There’s a reason security companies want to phase out passwords. Just not very secure
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<monerobull:matrix.org> as far as i can tell, there wont be a proper way to add LP while offline
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<monerobull:matrix.org> they just replace them with passphrases (long and actually secure passwords)
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<monerobull:matrix.org> and 2fa
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<examare:matrix.org> Nothing stops you having a passphrase with your multisig wallets, in fact I would recomend it
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<aremor:matrix.org> Yeah that’s why I’m thinking 3 of 5. Or going even higher
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<aremor:matrix.org> Biggest question is where to bury (euphemism) them
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<monerobull:matrix.org> id say the risk of becoming complacent and not regularly checking if you still can restore from backup is much higher the more you ramp up complexity with a multisig
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<aremor:matrix.org> You think it will have volume?
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<monerobull:matrix.org> with airgap + passphrase its quite easy to check and or rotate wallets to a new one
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<aremor:matrix.org> I don’t really know of any atomic swaps that have tons of volume
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<monerobull:matrix.org> imo it will become the place where most xmr is traded
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<monerobull:matrix.org> atomic swaps have pretty bad UX
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<monerobull:matrix.org> and you cant improve that with better software
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<examare:matrix.org> And dont you have to be online (waiting for btc confimations etc) to do atomic swaps..that can be hassle
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<monerobull:matrix.org> serai can be a literal drop-in replacement for centralized instant swappers in things like wallets or trocador
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<aremor:matrix.org> btc layer 1 is functionally dead as a currency IMO
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<ocean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> wen serai
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<aremor:matrix.org> If a btc service doesn’t support lightning now, then it’s dead to me lol
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<monerobull:matrix.org> From ShopinBit's X/Twitter account:
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<monerobull:matrix.org>
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<monerobull:matrix.org> Our usage stats for March 2024:
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<monerobull:matrix.org> XMR: 56.91%
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<monerobull:matrix.org> Bitcoin: 38.27%
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<monerobull:matrix.org> Lightning: 2.59%
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<monerobull:matrix.org> FIAT: 2.23%
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<monerobull:matrix.org> lightning is just as dead
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<monerobull:matrix.org> my optimistic guess: around monerokon. my pessimistic guess: 2024
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<ocean:matrix.thisisjoes.site> so 3-9 months lets go
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<monerobull:matrix.org> 🤷
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<321bob321:monero.social> soon™️
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<ajs_:matrix.org> eXaMaRe: The target audience are corporate users who don’t necessarily want to host a node nor sync up wallets each time an invoice needs to be paid. If a user threat model calls for higher security, one could always self host a node and use Monero CLI wallet or Feather’s implementation once it is out.
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<ajs_:matrix.org> It is an option available for convenience, better UI, API end points, while still being a non-custodial service.
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<ajs_:matrix.org> Paralelní Polis will update BTCPay server to latest version by MoneroKon comes around, which includes the PR that allows for 0-conf transactions for Monero. Paying with XMR will have the same fast payment experience as paying with Lightning, while having cheaper fees
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<ajs_:matrix.org> The only problem we still have is waiting for change to unlock if you will be making multiple payments in a short period of time
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<ajs_:matrix.org> Pocket change feature in Monerujo fixes this issue
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<ajs_:matrix.org> I am not sure if Cake Wallet plans to implement a similar feature
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<dave.jp:matrix.org> And creates a lot more issues, like if you spend a couple of these outputs these together it’s easily noticeable by BS companies. If PC had auto churn of these split output it might be better.
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<articmine:monero.social> The writing was on the wall over a decade ago.
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<articmine:monero.social> The fundamental problem with Bitcoin was a very poor engineering design right from the beginning. This is the falling block rewards and the need for transaction fees to replace the falling block rewards to maintain POW security. This leads to the need for small blocks in a falling attempt to maximize transaction fees .
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<articmine:monero.social> Monero solved the above problem with the minimum or tail emission and adaptive blocksize. Let me be blunt. If one took away the tail emission the entire security and anti-spam model of Monero would collapse.
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<monerobull:matrix.org> doubt but they have manual send to many
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<monerobull:matrix.org> so you could prepare your wallet yourself
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<articmine:monero.social> The above is the reason I am a Monero maximalist.
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<monerogoingto0:xmr.mx> no it by design. hal finney said in 2010
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<monerogoingto0:xmr.mx> "I believe this will be the ultimate fate of Bitcoin, to be the "high-powered money" that serves as a reserve currency for banks that issue their own digital cash. Most Bitcoin transactions will occur between banks, to settle net transfers. Bitcoin transactions by private individuals will be as rare as... well, as Bitcoin based purchases are today."
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<monerogoingto0:xmr.mx> @monerobull:matrix.org notepad good enough
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<ctrej:matrix.org> You are as confident in your statements as priests hundreds of years ago saying "the earth is in the center of the universe because the bible says so"
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<monerobull:matrix.org> a multisig wouldnt prevent the torture
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<monerobull:matrix.org> worst case it drags more people into it
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<monerobull:matrix.org> passphrase you can have a decoy wallet
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<monerobull:matrix.org> also can have a non-passphrase wallet as canary
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<monerogoingto0:xmr.mx> for monero to be used by ordinary man you cant expect them to do all this over the top setup. it need to be simple
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<monerobull:matrix.org> and a passphrase is just that
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<monerobull:matrix.org> way more simple than someone setting up a multisig with the CLI wallet lol
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<green_sheep:matrix.org> That's why Cake Wallet exists
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<ravfx:xmr.mx> Feather will have nice and easy multisig I think
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nioCat
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nioCat
plowsof: ^
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nioCat
CCS was updated and will be updated again very shortly
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plowsof
nioCat we can point to the prev mrl meeting / discussions / votes made after
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dukenukem
there was a direct yes/no question. Do better!
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plowsof
Im not fully up to speed yet, just catching up
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dukenukem
catch up to speed faster!
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plowsof
What is luigis1111 availability to merge this cypherstack proposal(s) that had its title and other misc things edited an hour ago . Whats.happening
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plowsof
luigi1111
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nioCat
wait until edited with link to the paper, not sure if that has happened yet
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nioCat
looks like it hasn't been updated with a link to the paper
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<123bob123:matrix.org> 24/25
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<123bob123:matrix.org> For torture
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luigi1111
next week probably
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nioCat
so sunday
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dukenukem
lol
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<321bob321:monero.social> Good morning, sunday morning
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<hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org> pinging luigi1111 luigi1112 luigi1111w (i think thats all of them)
repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/c…als/-/merge_requests/422#note_23548
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plowsof
thanks for your service hinto! i presume it will happen in the next round of payouts
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nioCat
there is one more :D
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plowsof
i think 8 are waiting now :-o
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<xmrscott:monero.social> If there's a need for someone to cleanup the spam repos, I can. I have to do something similar on a weekly basis for the Monero Space forums anyways; could add it to my reoccurring task list