<j​effro256:monero.social> "Key image triangulation" is a made-up term used by people who don't know what they're talking about. When used, they're almost always talking about decoy elimination, which has nothing to do with key images

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> What the hell is key image triangulation

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Lol

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Triangulation?

<j​effro256:monero.social> A term used by dero folk

<j​effro256:monero.social> It doesnt make any sense

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Yeah... a simple search explains what a key image is

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> AFAIK it is pretty much irrelevant

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> In statistical analysis

<j​effro256:monero.social> You actually can do "key image analysis" if you happened to own a functioning quantum computer with enough qbits to tackle Ed25519 efficiently.

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Then you would be able to get the public key of the correct spend?

<j​effro256:monero.social> Yup! Just solving for the discrete log of the image against a hash of the output pubkey

<j​effro256:monero.social> Until FCMP++ that is

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Right, thanks for confirming

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Yeah, ring signature model gets eliminated

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I am yet to familiarize myself with FCMP++ innerworkings...

<j​effro256:monero.social> That paper midipoet linked doesnt use key images in the analysis, its GOAL was to associste output pubkeys to key images, since that's what it means to trace Monero

<j​effro256:monero.social> Well beyond that, the composition proof in FCMP++ cryptographically blinds output pubkeys against key images which thwarts DLP solvers from extracting the true spend

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I have a lot of reading to do 😅

<j​effro256:monero.social> An early version of FCMP++ didnt have this property and the transaction graph would still be traceable retroactively to a quatum computer

<j​effro256:monero.social> Will you be at Monerokon recanman?

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Yes!

<j​effro256:monero.social> Topia*

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Oh... no

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I have a midterm on the first day :(

<j​effro256:monero.social> Ah dang

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Yeah, too bad. Would be great to talk more at MoneroKon next year. Looking forward to your talks

<j​effro256:monero.social> Well shameless plug i will talk about it some in my talk as background info because i sense that it isnt well understood

<j​effro256:monero.social> That being forward secrecy

<j​effro256:monero.social> Good luck!

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> I've briefly glanced over the this, very interesting work

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Thank you! Coincidentally it involves cryptography, but very far from ECC lol

<j​effro256:monero.social> Oh nice, what kind ?

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Public key cryptography, modular arithmetic, etc.

<j​effro256:monero.social> Nice

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Cryptography is an interest of mine but I'm still 5+ years from considering myself 'good'. Still very elementary

<j​effro256:monero.social> Courses like that really help you appreciate whats going on

<j​effro256:monero.social> Heads up, youre always going to feel like that lmao

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Yeah, you're right. Good is the wrong word to use

<j​effro256:monero.social> Theres always someone way better than you at crypto

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Applies everywhere but especially in theory (mathematics, computer science, etc.)

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> physics as well

<j​effro256:monero.social> Yup

<j​ay_edwards:matrix.org> Hi everyone🙂 what are you discussin there, guys?

<j​ay_edwards:matrix.org> Hi everyone🙂 what are you discussing there, guys?

nothing terrorism related that's for sure

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> False modesty

<k​ewbit:matrix.org> It’s admirable but you’re clearly gifted

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> i just wanted to state

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…matrix.org/QHBdhZCTtxeAiVnQBtAEnVdi

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> if @monero ever tweets anything like this, monero has failed and we can all go home

<t​hemisplacedphilosopher:matrix.org> The price did go up.

ltc has always had a bit of a bootlicker vibe

or should I say an air of desperation

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> They are mergemined with doge but not "performing" as well. Though i'm pretty sure ltc has far more on-chain use than doge (for now)

doge and ltc are merge mined?

I did not know that

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> they are used mainly as a gambling on ramp, right?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> if i remember correctly that was the market they were going after

<o​frnxmr:monero.social> doge? I dont know anyone who holds any non-custodially

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> no i mean ltc

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> its memes all the way down

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> they are working for their bags

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> seems a bit forced ngl

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> they also made some lester meme

and an xmr onramp

at least according to a few “how to buy xmr”

guides

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> the tech competency of the average monero holder is very high compared to all other coins

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> only machine that litecoin holders can operate is the slot machine

To be in, i think i have paid for stuff in Litecoin more than any other currency

*be honest

<d​ancer:monero.social> how does one send litecoin privately? I've heard that it added mimble wimble for privacy but I don't think it's by default and I'm not sure how effective the implementation is for private transactions

cake wallet added mweb accounts for ltc but I haven’t tried it

real world update: MoneroTopia kicks off in 4 hours and it’s a perfect day in Mexico City

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> mimble wimble is not privacy tech it is "scaling tech". but now aptos sui solana will leave it in the dust. has neither the ngU meme nor privacy

Doug and Sunita hit the nail on the head by picking CDMX. 20 million people and not a lot of other cryptos competing for their attention. Great opportunity for Monero.

geonic: Will there be a live stream?

Yes, ajs is here and in charge of that

I think it’s ticketed though

we do need to work on clearing some of those shitcoins off the schedule though

WIP

Ticketed as in you need a ticket do watch the livestream?

yep I think so. let me confirm

answer is yes. monerotopia.com/product/virtual-tickets

I see, think it would have been better to have the stream public

fully agree

let’s see how many virtual tix they sell and maybe next year we can crowdfund that portion

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> I get why they might want it this way. With virtual tickets allowing people to participate in Q&A the price gates trolling, and they do post all the talks after the conference.

<geonic> Doug and Sunita hit the nail on the head by picking CDMX. 20 million people and not a lot of other cryptos competing for their attention. Great opportunity for Monero. <<>> we even have a Spanish name ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Yep

rolls off the tongue

<n​erap:matrix.org> Monero ist great.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> From what I understand you have to move your litecoin into "extension blocks" <pegging-in>, so its tx live in a different place in the litecoin blocks.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> From them you can send to another addresse that live in "extension blocks", so not only it's an extra moving part for you (and we can probably know that you moved coins into extension blocks). But the recipient have to support it too and once they got the coins they can peg-out to make them back into normal blocks, kind of ztrash at the end, but work different and feel more compli<clipped message>

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> cated than ztrash.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> So at the end there is less than 0.0001% of the transaction that use that MWEB tech.

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Plus anyone can see when mweb tx occure (it glow)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> No exchange afaik support mweb (kind of z address z-trash where only supposed by kyc.gemini exchange)

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> No exchange afaik support mweb (kind of z address z-trash where only supposed by kyc.gemini exchange, defeating all the purpose)

and mimble wimble only has a benefit against those that are not watching and keeping track of txs

so not against analysis companies

extension blocks? is this a mimble wimble concept? yeah this seems complicated.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> any grin baggies here?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> their mining algorithm was also interesting

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> do both parties need to be online in the litecoin implementation?

<a​nchoc:matrix.org> no

<r​avfx:xmr.mx> Afaik, non.

<r​ucknium:monero.social> The MAGIC Monero Fund got an application: "Build a plugin for embedding dApps into Wordpress websites" MAGICGrants/Monero-Fund #38

<r​ucknium:monero.social> Community feedback is appreciated :)

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Hahaha, you don't know me at all. How can you conclude this?

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Oh, very interesting

<d​ancer:monero.social> thanks for the explanation! it's more clear and succinct than anything I've read.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Looks like it got rm -rf

<r​brunner7:monero.social> GitHub still has the original version, just use the "Edited" dropdown. We will probably never know now however what a "Monero dApp" is :)

<r​brunner7:monero.social> That's the beauty of version control systems: It's hard to make them forget something.

<3​21bob321:monero.social> Rb doing version analysis

kayaba’s FCMP++ talk starting now

ask him when? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

next year™️

was wrong, he just said development should be finished next month and then audits can start

Carrot is next but can be deployed after FCMPs go live so shouldn’t slow us down

here’s the when on Serai: imgur.com/a/qUehwqM

<r​ecanman:kernal.eu> Thank you

IMHO carrot should be released at the same time as FCMP so only 1 HF needed. I think that carrot might not need a HF but it would be short sighted to rush FCMP and leave carrot behind as it is significant enough wallet improvement that everyone should be using it.

ofc timing will determine the decision

sorry serai

this is from the reality that hardforks are difficult to do quickly

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> geonic: Dev, distinct from integration

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> Carrot can be deployed after. It won't be. It will be done at the same time and has been worked on in parallel to not be a delay.

thanks for clarifying kayabanerve

<l​ordx3nu:matrix.org> hey luke, posted this in the live chat but it didn't get directed to you: have you considered any hypothetical deanonymization attacks that could impact fcmps?

since they will deployed together I once again suggest the name of FCMP++ be changed to Rabbit to go along with Carrot

serious or ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) ?

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There's still some such as amount of inputs/outputs/fees paid.

<k​ayabanerve:matrix.org> There's also assumptions made about how you prove (a locally built tree which is built while syncing the valid chain with the most work)

+1 for Rabbit

😁