<m​onerobull:matrix.org> cointelegraph.com/news/eu-crypto-ban-anonymous-privacy-tokens-2027

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Rip GDPR

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> People from europe always talk so badly about 'muricans, but countries out there dont even get to decide their own laws 😭?

<e​longated:matrix.org> Fewer places to manipulate “token” price

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> to be honest, this doesnt change anything

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> or do you know any EU CEX that lists monero

<e​longated:matrix.org> Monerokon will need to relocate I guess

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> yalls need to leave the eu. Buncha worthless tyrants. Didnt UK leave?

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> why? they just ban VASPS from handling monero

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the UK is way worse

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> no?

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Sounds like accepting monero at your business would be bammrd

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> or even opencryptopay and gift card services

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> hm true

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> tldr: your country should leave the eu and make their own laws

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> eu treats your country like its a county

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> my country probably proposed this stuff

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the EU is schizophrenic

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> on one side you have GDPR with hardcore rules to preserve privacy and on the other, total transparency

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> EU unfortunately make the assumptions in its law that they will do good use of it.

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> which is...

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> well it's an assumption and only an assumption

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> GDPR means that transparent blockchains should be illegal

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> damn

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> the perfect pincer maneuver to ban all of crypto

<c​t:xmr.mx> nah, without the EU individual countries would be fucked much more in the current global political climate

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Lol

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So basically they arent sovereign to begin with

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> An eu country == a us state

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Except less sovereign, since us states can decide their own crypto laws

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> ofrnxmr trying not to have the dumbest offtopic political takes in #-community challenge:

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> IMPOSSIBLE

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> also OFFTOPIC

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> should have been posted on #monero to begin with

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> it was in monero to begin with

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Except its pretty factual, seeeeeth m-reIay, seeeth

<c​t:xmr.mx> may the real m-relay please stand up?

<s​yntheticbird:monero.social> seeth**E***

<a​remor:matrix.org> Good luck banning math

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> That's the cool part

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> They don't even try

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> They are targeting only the vasps

<j​effro256:monero.social> Bullish for Haveno EU-based trade volume

<0​xfffc:monero.social> Exactly

<a​remor:matrix.org> Yeah actually, I support this law. Was never supposed to be custodial in the first place.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Theres nothing "free"(as in freedom) about imposing laws on my business

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> I don't like the part where stuff like coinsbee probably won't be able to accept monero anymore

<m​onerobull:matrix.org> We will have to just swap through serai any time we need to spend inside the eu

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Bring a validator on serai prob illegal too (?)

<j​effro256:monero.social> Then EU shoots itself in the foot by not allowing any of its citizens to be Serai validators. Oh well, more rewards for the rest of the world...

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Eu shoots itself in all of its countries feet all the time

<j​effro256:monero.social> Tbf, this doesn't sound like it binds merchants at the moment, but I could be wrong. But the very fact that they're so adamant on trying to control non-surveillance coins, as well as the eliminating cash, probably means that they'll attempt to come after merchants given enough time

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> GDPR = bitcoin is noncompliant

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Ban privacy coins = GDPR compliant crypto is illegal

It doesn't bind merchants

Obliged entities is Article 3

Though anyone that handles transactions over €10,000 would potentially become an obliged entities

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> Maybe wont ban a merchant directly from accepting monero, but would ban any service provider from handling anything for them (like rino (rip) a gift card service, opencryptopay etc)

And also, GDPR doesn't ban any type of blockchains, either implicitly or explicitly

It does pose issues for data controller and data processors from using/implementing specific aspects of DLT

ofrnxmr: it won't ban gift cards

it will ban (it seems) anonymous sale of gift cards above a certain threshold

Which I think is €3000 (but I'd have to check to make sure)

But in reality, this was always the case. It's just that the threshold has been reduced

From 8k to 3k, IIRC

Might be 10k to 3k

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> agree with this. The direction is clear. There is also more and more weaponizing of the law to suppress political speech.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> <m​idipoet> And also, GDPR doesn't ban any type of blockchains, either implicitly or explicitly

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> How do you have the right to be forgotten on btc?

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> The gdpr is a geopolitical tool that is selectively enforced. Doubt that facts and logic will work on them

You have "the right to be forgotten", only when you engage with a data controller or data processor (obliged entities). If the question you are actually trying to ask is whether there are technical OR organisational measures to enact your "right to be forgotten" with a DLT, then the answer is probably yes (though contestable, imperfect, and contextual). One example is if a data controller processes a payment on my

behalf on bitcoin, using a custodial wallet. The only entity (in theory) that knows the link between on-chain data (personal data) and my identity, is the data controller. If they delete the off-chain link, from a legal perspective, they have implemented my data deletion request.

I shared a very recent document which outlines a lot of the European Data Protection Board's perspective on DLT. They take a pretty technology neutral perspective (as expected)

ofrnxmr: if on the other hand, you are proposing that the bitcoin network (or actors in the network) are data controllers/data processors in and of themselves, then that is another discussion completely

^^ and a lot more complex, legally speaking

Having said all that, for permissioned chains, legally, it changes completely, as there are usually identifiable obliged entities, controllers and processors in that context.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> The EU does not matter as much as you think it does. The buck still stops with national governments. If you look at Bitcoin atms for example: [shitcoins.club ](shitcoins.club/en/bitcoin-atm-locations) for a while they were available in Germany as well, until the bafin put a stop to it. (as a result of pressure from a local competitior that wanted to capture the market via <clipped message>

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> regulatory capture)

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> matrix.monero.social/_matrix/media/…/kernal.eu/fQxXHWhaaZeLBUnVdFpmFUeS

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> you can clearly see on this map which countries are more and less hostile

jeffro256: I don't think "they" (the EU/Government) are trying to eliminate cash. In fact, a new Regulation was proposed, and is in the enactment process, in 2022/2024 to ensure a European wide right to access cash, and to ensure that it is accepted throughout the "Single Market". It's the "market" that is trying to remove cash, due to the efficiency/cost, compliance, and data analysis benefits to it being

removed/replaced by digital alternatives.

<s​pirobel:kernal.eu> its more like they try to insert themselves into the conversation to give the appearance of having legislative power. But in practice the enforcement and implementation of the actual law differs from country to country

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> So why kraken delist in the EEA? And this latest news is theater?

<j​effro256:monero.social> midipoet: true, it might not be fair to say that the "EU" itself is phasing out cash, but IMO the "compliance" burden you mention is largely due to the EU or the governments of its member countries; the private sector isn't creating that cost. Although I do agree that the private sector loves that sweet sweet customer tracking data that comes with digital payments tied directly to<clipped message>

<j​effro256:monero.social> people's names, phone numbers, etc

ofrnxmr: they delisted in the process of obtaining their CASP licence with the Central Bank of Ireland. Essentially, the CB asks them to provide evidence of how they will comply with all the provisions in MiCAR. It's easier to delist then come up with a solution for Article 76 of MiCAR, especially when they have a shit ton of other things to worry about with the regulation. Kraken absolutely cannot risk not getting

their licence, and they absolutely cannot risk being "late" to get their licence, allowing other firms to steal market share. So they take the path of least resistance.

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> MiCAR is governed why whom

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> By* whom

European Banking Authority and European Securities and Markets Authority, in conjunction with the National Competent Authorities (basically the Central Banks of each Member State)

<o​frnxmr:xmr.mx> mhm

If you want some more reading from "them", this is worth a peruse. It's from the BIS. bis.org/publ/work1242.htm