<4rkal> cyphergoat.com/blog/js-optional

<4rkal> PSA

<4rkal> nojs.cyphergoat.com and cyphergoat.com are now one interface.

<4rkal> CypherGoat works fully without JavaScript and adds small UI improvements when JS is enabled.

👏

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @4rkal: i dont understand scam websites like this and trocador with insurances that never pay (just read the laughable terms) and put thiefs like swapuz with KYC Level 0 (or trocador B) even though they dont even have own liquidity and just forward whatever whitebit (another thief, ukrainian exchange) will tell them in reg [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_oHA3d0Kc055cjl4 ]

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> you have exactly one exchange in your list which qualifies for KYC Level 0 and even their terms say explicitly dont send stolen funds that are on watchlists 👍️ make the effort for a coinjoin/tornado and youre fine.

<orangefren:matrix.org> We paid a user out just last week using the deposit system we pioneered 🤷‍♂️. Nobody wants stolen funds and coinjoins won't untaint them

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: until you draw the connection between coins before coinjoin and after coinjoin the exchange already happened xD and this is if you can draw any connection at all, which is mostly the case with huge amounts

<orangefren:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: With exchanges like FF what they do is if any inputs to a CJ were tainted then all outputs get tainted. A lot of our work is helping innocent users trace their UTXOs back through many many CJ rounds until it's one that has no tainted inputs, thus proving the taint wasn't from them

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> long live protocols that dont implement racism, like eigenwallet and thorchain 👍️

<orangefren:matrix.org> With eigen you get XMR from BTC, so you can't get anything tainted. But providing liquidity for those atomic swaps often get our users in trouble because people sell tainted BTC for XMR

<syntheticbird> wrong enemy, the real racist here is the banks and kyc structures

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: you talk about it like its a bad thing. somebody decide a utxo is bad ... oh no be afraid now! only get your coins from big brother CEX otherwise you might get the bad coins! scary scary

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: exactly kyc / kyt structures, thats why its laughable when such websites advertise services like swapuz as kyc level 0. you can just send your coins directly to whitebit without swapuz' cut and get the same requests for kyc, aml and sof xD

<orangefren:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: Eh don't get BTC in a p2p way unless you can prove onchain that you got it p2p. Or use Lightning

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> those websites trick people into safety where there is none

<4rkal> > <@longtermwhale:matrix.org> i dont understand scam websites like this and trocador with insurances that never pay (just read the laughable terms) and put thiefs like swapuz with KYC Level 0 (or trocador B) even though they dont even have own liquidity and just forward whatever whitebit (another thief, ukrainian exchange) [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/opGP3t0KMXVfSVVH ]

<4rkal> I’m not going to comment on allegations or motives attributed to other services.

<4rkal> The KYC levels on CypherGoat are meant to be useful and trustworthy classifications, not marketing labels or guarantees. They’re based on public terms, observed behaviour and user reports and we document how they’re assigned.

<4rkal> [... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/opGP3t0KMXVfSVVH ]

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> KYC Level 0 xD

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> swapuz.com/terms-of-use#amlProcedure

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> if you dont take money from swapuz to give them such a misleading rating thats the classic story about the hooker that gets paid and the slut that sleeps around for free

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> in any case, have a nice evening all said

<4rkal> Terms alone don’t determine KYC level. Enforcement and observed behavior matter. If there’s concrete evidence a rating is wrong, I’m open to it. A link and sarcasm isn’t helpful.

<4rkal> Have a nice evening

<ofrnxmr> iiuc, there are swappers that absolutely dont do aml checks

<ofrnxmr> Orangefren lists them as "never-kyc" and they provide their own liquidity

<ofrnxmr> Swapuz is not a never-kyc exchange and shouldnt be advertized as one

<ofrnxmr> Advertised

<orangefren:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: We also label services this way if they do refunds without KYC. For instance Xchange.me uses AML checks, but then refunds if they don't like the score

<orangefren:matrix.org> Swapuz previously lied to our users about their rate too. And froze funds in the past also. In the fake rate case we had to use their deposit to make users whole

<orangefren:matrix.org> Then for instance there's WizardSwap or BitcoinVN who don't do normal aml checks, but they still freeze stolen funds when there's a hack or they otherwise find out about it

<4rkal> On CypherGoat, Tier 0 means no routine KYC, not “never AML under any circumstance.” No exchange will knowingly process stolen funds, and that’s true across the industry

<hooftly:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: This is interesting have they ever gotten funds back to the rightful owners?

<4rkal> @4rkal: Having said that I would like to mention that we have never encountered any KYC/AML issues with any of our KYC tier 0 exchanges.

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: so you think they do a AML check that comes back as 100% sanctioned/stolen and they will return the funds 😂

<orangefren:matrix.org> @hooftly:matrix.org: Yes, usually when funds are frozen they get sent to a lawyer hired by the person reporting the theft

<hooftly:matrix.org> Do I like or dislike this lol its hard

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @hooftly:matrix.org: you have to dislike this

<hooftly:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: Fair reaction

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> exch.cx was the last one in the internet to reply "well how about you send us some proof those utxo are stolen" before simply freezing

<hooftly:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: This is also logical

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> ALL of those exchanges (cant speak for infinity but they charge up to 10% so who cares) simply accept any incoming email from any wannabe "i am a legit crypto consultant business blah blah" that any utxo from that list is stolen and has to be frozen

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> thats the problem with this system

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> cant speak so much about the forwaring the money without questioning, but the freezing happens without questioning

<orangefren:matrix.org> Well not proof of theft, they asked for a police report. So proof of you actually reporting a crime > <@longtermwhale:matrix.org> exch.cx was the last one in the internet to reply "well how about you send us some proof those utxo are stolen" before simply freezing

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> can fake you a police report in 2 minutes

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> how do you know how a police report from nigeria looks like

<hooftly:matrix.org> Finance is getting a boot on its neck.... so is privacy.

<orangefren:matrix.org> Infinity openly invites people to use them to swap stolen funds. We don't have them listed for this reason :) > <@longtermwhale:matrix.org> ALL of those exchanges (cant speak for infinity but they charge up to 10% so who cares) simply accept any incoming email from any wannabe "i am a legit crypto consultant business blah blah" that any utxo from that list is stolen and has to be frozen

<hooftly:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: Gross

<orangefren:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: a swapper could ask for something with an apostille, but in the time it takes you to obtain one the funds will be looong gone

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: nobody in the right mind uses this service with their fees. they dont even have meaningful liquidity. at 10% they likely just throw the coins into bisq for 3% and take their 7% xD

<orangefren:matrix.org> I'm amazed Infinity continues to operate despite being openly criminal and the owner being known 🤷‍♂️

<hooftly:matrix.org> @orangefren:matrix.org: Touching the right pps i guess

<orangefren:matrix.org> I think he lives in the UK. Can you just bribe the state there? 😃

<hooftly:matrix.org> Interesting.

<orangefren:matrix.org> or idk maybe there's a ruling from the 14th century that somehow makes it ok there lol

<hooftly:matrix.org> Maybe hes a lord

<hooftly:matrix.org> Or whatever

<hooftly:matrix.org> I dunno if that is a thing lol

<orangefren:matrix.org> I think only the king has immunity there. And infinity is operated by some indian kid

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> long live trustless protocols like thorchain and eigenwallet who dont participate in the "this utxo is mean" shit like chainflip and all the website-swappers

"94 percent of all Bitcoin Cash transacted since July 2020 is now a descendant of a CashFusion CoinJoin transaction" rucknium.me/posts/cashfusion-descendants

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> seize all BCH and send to US GOV immediately

<hooftly:matrix.org> LOL