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UkoeHB
Meeting 2hr
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UkoeHB
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UkoeHB
1. greetings
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UkoeHB
hello
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ArticMine[m]
Hi
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rbrunner
hello
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one-horse-wagon[
Hello.
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Rucknium[m]
Hi
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jberman[m]
hello
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plowsof
hi
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xmrack[m]
Hi
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UkoeHB
2. updates, what's everyone working on?
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UkoeHB
me: did a seraphis walkthrough with some monero devs, working on updating the library to support multisig txs with legacy inputs, after that is the very last library component: coinbase tx type
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Rucknium[m]
Bringing some R code to production level that measures the out-spends for bitcoin CoinJoins. Not strictly Monero-related, but should help CryptoMorpheus with the moneroj.net charts that compare XMR txs with other "private" cryptocurrency options.
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jberman[m]
setting up a stress test framework on the pool (with an aim toward getting PR 8076 past the finish line), working on fixing a bug in my re-scanning via scan_tx PR 8566 (good spot by plowsof), submitted a PR 8619 for background sync without the spend key
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UkoeHB
3. discussion, any topics on anyone's mind?
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rbrunner
I have collected a number of issues around the coming Seraphis wallet:
github.com/seraphis-migration/wallet3/issues
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rbrunner
Some are closely related to that project, but some are also more general decisions
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rbrunner
So every Monero dev should find something there to leave their opinion
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rbrunner
It's a bit lonely there so far, with me writing, and then getting some comments mostly from UkoeHB and dangerousfreedom :)
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vtnerd
hi
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vtnerd
fixed d++ bug, and focused on serialization branch, will soon replace zmq serialization stuff, so the patch is pretty big now
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UkoeHB
yeah migrating to seraphis would/will be a very big project so a bit more attention from monero devs in general would be encouraging
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Rucknium[m]
vtnerd: May be worth a look: BCH devs are discussing using WebRTC as an alternative node communication port to reduce node communication censorability:
bitcoincashresearch.org/t/webrtc-we…et-based-p2p-networking-for-bch/928
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rbrunner
Your walkthrough showed me the size of the task ...
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UkoeHB
especially considering I don't plan to do a lot of dev work once the seraphis lib is done
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vtnerd
I have no idea (at a quick glance) why anyone would want to do that for p2p comms
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jberman[m]
I'm almost there, ready to dive in soon as I finish this slate of tasks
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vtnerd
I mean, I guess monero nodes running in js-browser thing is interesting, but my goodness
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UkoeHB
even setting aside seraphis dev, there is an enormous amount of code review necessary
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rbrunner
That will get interesting, yes. With many thousands of lines of code. Brand new. Dense at times. Promises a lot of fun
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one-horse-wagon[
rbrunner: Are we going to have the manpower to do it?
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Rucknium[m]
What skillset is necessary to help push Seraphis forward after UkoeHB is done with his part?
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UkoeHB
even for me it will probably take 2-3 weeks to do a final cleanup review
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rbrunner
"it" meaning implementing or reviewing or both?
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one-horse-wagon[
rbrunner: Both.
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rbrunner
Frankly, I don't know. I guess nobody knows. But probably not a reason to not try it.
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rbrunner
and maybe we will be able to invoke "special circumstances" if need be. I don't think somebody said back in 2014, after forking CryptoNote, "let's review everything first", right?
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Rucknium[m]
If there was a clear job description, then MAGIC could put up a job ad. Just an idea. As it stands, we will have to reach inward, but that's limited. I'm thinking for implementation, not review.
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UkoeHB
not everything is critical, for example it's probably ok if balance recovery has some minor bugs
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ArticMine[m]
Defining the Job description then would be helpful.
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hyc
rbrunner: back in 2014, core team commissioned a full code review and attempt to document APIs
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rbrunner
I think for the wallet proper we do have the necessary manpower secured. But to get Seraphis running there will be a lot of follow-up jobs.
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rbrunner
hyc: Color me surprised. Didn't know.
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vtnerd
a job ad for ... code review?
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rbrunner
There will be changes and adjustment all over the place. In RPC. In the CLI wallet, in the GUI wallet.
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vtnerd
I mean its probably best if the existing contributors do it, even if its painful and long process
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vtnerd
er you said for implementation, so IM not sure what
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hyc
agreed. people should just sign up for chunks at a time
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garth
I think it's possible that more Monero devs will give this attention as the switch to Seraphis comes closer. As of now it's still sort of peripheral.
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one-horse-wagon[
The money is certainly there for however many CCS proposals are needed.
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rbrunner
That's also my hope. So far it's not much more than a murmur in the background.
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rbrunner
But once things really are in motion ...
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rbrunner
Every wallet app dev who wants to use the Seraphis core wallet has to do at least 100 of review. How about this? :)
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rbrunner
*100 hours
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Rucknium[m]
AFAIK, our options are: 1) Acquire more resources; 2) Re-allocate existing resources (but we have no bosses); 3) Draw out Seraphis dev/implementation for an extended period of time; 4) Seraphis never reaches mainnet
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hyc
so the question is whether there's enough devs to complete the implementation?
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ArticMine[m]
I would suggest a combination of 1 and 2
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rbrunner
You can sort of mix 1 to 3.
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rbrunner
Of course not too much of 3 :)
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hyc
a job ad isn't a bad idea. just like Wolf0 was hired to do an open source miner way back when.
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UkoeHB
the crypto world probably has more wallet devs than anything else
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UkoeHB
might be viable
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rbrunner
Hmm, why not, the Seraphis library is such a nice, mostly self-contained amount of code. Could be reviewed as that. Only problem: It will probably change quite a bit over time.
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one-horse-wagon[
Wouldn't it be wise to lay out a roadmap of simple steps to the ultimate goal of total implementation. Then ask for CCS proposals?
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rbrunner
Er, good idea, but believe me, we are still quite far away for being able to come up with a reasonable roadmap.
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one-horse-wagon[
s/?/ along the way./
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UkoeHB
one-horse-wagon[: if you have some vision for a roadmap, that would be a good contribution
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jberman[m]
Was planning on doing something like this for my next CCS. Past the hours on my current one already, just want to wrap up the tasks that were in there
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rbrunner
Of course more people thinking and brainstorming about that are a big win. But it will be difficult to look ahead.
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plowsof
will bulletproofs++ eventually be used in Seraphis?
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UkoeHB
plowsof: unknown, we still need code and reviews of the paper (which afaik has not been published in a journal yet)
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one-horse-wagon[
UkoeHB: I'm going to look into that.
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UkoeHB
one-horse-wagon[: great, glad to hear it :)
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rbrunner
Do we already know the approximate sizes of Seraphis transactions, compared with current ones?
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rbrunner
Maybe BP++ will be very welcomed, to counter the size increase
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UkoeHB
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UkoeHB
there haven't been too many changes since those tests
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plowsof
asking about bp++ because i want to offer myself for doing any legwork where needed for organising it etc - knowing that it will benefit both the existing monero code base and Seraphis is great
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UkoeHB
jberman[m]: you want to hand off that task to plowsof ?
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rbrunner
UkoeHB: Thanks, interesting.
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jberman[m]
yes I do
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rbrunner
In those graphs, are we now in the "concise" case?
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UkoeHB
rbrunner: squashed
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rbrunner
Ah, ok.
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UkoeHB
hence, txtype squashed v1 :)
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rbrunner
Of course. How could I forget. Problably information overload.
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Rucknium[m]
Looks like if our goal is to "offset" anything by using BP++, it would be in verification time rather than size.
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UkoeHB
plowsof: ok if you want to organize getting a code proof of concept + paper reviews for bp++ that would be great; jberman[m] and I were thinking to approach Cypher Stack for a quote
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jberman[m]
+1
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plowsof
sounds good to me
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UkoeHB
as a reminder, here is what we know about bp++
monero-project/research-lab #101
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rbrunner
Hey, that repository link there is new, right?
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UkoeHB
not that new I think
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plowsof
there may be some 'community politics' involved with that company which will require some navigation
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rbrunner
So those are not those mysterious results from ooo's purported implementation?
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rbrunner
"navigation". May be, yes.
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UkoeHB
those are the mysterious results yes, the link is older
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rbrunner
Although, interesting that Stack Wallet from them did not draw any critics, as far as I could see.
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UkoeHB
plowsof: it's up to you how to go about it, or to look for someone else to work on it
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plowsof
received very well indeed
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rbrunner
Maybe the concerned people did not connect the dots ...
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UkoeHB
trolls lost their momentum or changed direction perhaps
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UkoeHB
anyway we are at the end of the meeting, thanks for attending everyone
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plowsof
the issue could be solved with 'handing the funds raised' immediately to a trusted company to custody/convert/pay (a rino .io or digital renegades) (if the CCS is used) - but that is far down the road yet.
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rbrunner
Digital renegades?
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plowsof
theyve handled funds for the events team (i believe its BF's company or at least he is involved)
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hyc
IMO payment amount should just be set in advance, in XMR, carved in stone. if XMR value goes up, they win. if it goes down, they lose.
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rbrunner
It depends whether we have a buyer or a seller market. With the latter, hard to be really tough about this, I guess.
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hyc
XMR price these days changes very little
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one-horse-wagon[
<hyc> "IMO payment amount should just..." <- I totally agree with this.