<interestingband:matrix.org> Is it possible to know few examples of successfully implemented PoS from your PoV before the book for 200 xmr is released ? > <@kayabanerve:matrix.org> @articmine:monero.social: Proof of work still nominates the builder of the next block.

<interestingband:matrix.org> I want to ask concrete technical questions, that's why I want to know few examples

<interestingband:matrix.org> Btw, do you all understand that it's all about how much money are needed in order to compromise consensus and conduct the worst possible attack (double spending ?) ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> For example, how much money sholud be paid to someone who owns these DNS domains in order to cause chain split (for example two different sets of exchanges that accept XMR) and do actual double spending ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> The same with PoS

<interestingband:matrix.org> How much money should be paid to PoS participants in order to conduct double spending

<interestingband:matrix.org> Btw, It's kinda obvious that PoS participants should be slashed in case of misbahivour (like double spending)

<interestingband:matrix.org> But is it obvious for you all that any kind of reward for PoS participants (like part of block reward) is actually a reduction of their penaltiy in case of misbehaviour ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> I don't need any details (I can read and can find them on my own), just give me few names of existing projects > <@interestingband:matrix.org> Is it possible to know few examples of successfully implemented PoS from your PoV before the book for 200 xmr is released ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> Or mabye a link ot research paper with state of the art PoS consensus design / architecture

<interestingband:matrix.org> from your PoV

<interestingband:matrix.org> (I'm trying to be polite, 0 insults so far, I hope my questions are on topic)

"0 insults so far" is a really funny thing to say lol

<interestingband:matrix.org> 0 people here who can verify cryptography is funny

<interestingband:matrix.org> people, who can't take into consideration all dependencies of a simple state machine in c++, are trying to develop decentralized consensus that is resistant to any kind of attacks is funny

<interestingband:matrix.org> * funny unless you have non zero amount of XMR and you can't do anything without removal of these "professionals"

<syntheticbird> unnecessary and untrue statement. I will call here to get him muted. He had all the ways possible in this world to continue fighting for his situation with the CCS but he instead decide to bait and insult.

<interestingband:matrix.org> Please, point out exact comment that falls into category as "bait and insult" ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> mute your incompteence, much more useful

<interestingband:matrix.org> I'm waiting for few names of existing projects with PoS or links to few papers with PoS designs that can be easily provided by the professional who is about to wirte a book about it for 200 xmr

<interestingband:matrix.org> It looks like someone during meeting said that there seems to be a consesus to merge that CCS proposal, so

you can just not give money to it tho

<interestingband:matrix.org> "unnecessary and untrue statement" I can add more details, but it won't change anything in reality at the moment, since I already did it few times here

don't engage here, for this kind of banter #monero-research-lounge is the "better" fitting place even

here, as others say, no matter what you say it will get considered noise and disregarded. it is noise in this channel, which is kept for limited discussion and meetings

<interestingband:matrix.org> "as other say" who and why does it matter if they are not doing any kind of research for monero ?

<interestingband:matrix.org> I've asked a question regarding research related to monero

<interestingband:matrix.org> -lounge is for casual talks by people who don't try to do anything complicated

<interestingband:matrix.org> I know that

<interestingband:matrix.org> helene: it's more complicated than that, so "just not give money" won't help to achieve something

<gingeropolous> anyone have a internet AS graph / GML file more recent than 2006? im lookin into the caida thing, and I need to request access to the data blah blah

<gingeropolous> nevermind.

<drinksomemilk:matrix.org> Maybe instead of beeing passive agressive. Just provide constructive feedback.

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> Whats the bottleneck on resolving the qubic situation? funding needed?

<elongated:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: There is no consensus, whales would like finality layer pos obviously to secure their investments; but some ppl are very opposed to it

<gingeropolous> threading the needle of a decentralized permissionless network finding a way to ban / punish a participant

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> oh my god i jump into this matrix over the last 5 years here and there and everytime i ready anything its a circlejerk of not having consensus of where to go or what to work on

<elongated:matrix.org> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: Maybe you need a coin run by a company with a ceo

<elongated:matrix.org> DNS checkpoints can be deployed soon

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @elongated:matrix.org: if i understand right thats not preventing the main problem?

<ofrnxmr> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: for dns checkpoints, mostly just logistics

<ofrnxmr> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: Publish or perish needs someone to dedicate time to an implementation

<ofrnxmr> Dns checkpoints are a type of finality layer, but (unless everyone opts-in) they do not address a sustained 51% attack.

<ofrnxmr> Qubic has not shown a capability to sustain 51% of global hash

<noname-user0:matrix.org> @elongated:matrix.org: not just whales want a hybrid pos integration.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> it's good for the network if people who own the coin are also aligned with network security.

<ofrnxmr> What if people who own the coin are malicious?

<ofrnxmr> Theres a potential 4M xmr that has been seized from DNM etc

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> I'm gonna talk to plowsof (again) why there is not more researchers involved by now, be it by bounty or CCS employment. money attracts talent. > <@ofrnxmr> Publish or perish needs someone to dedicate time to an implementation

<ofrnxmr> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: They have not requested any funding.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: they end up destroying their own economic position because they obviously have something to lose.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> what if miners are malicious? they might never have had a stake in the network.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> e.g. qubic or botnets

<ofrnxmr> The us government doesnt careabout the value of xmr

<ofrnxmr> Theyd probably prefer sending it to 0

<noname-user0:matrix.org> they can do that with mining just the same as buying or confiscating xmr and then maliciously staking it.

<noname-user0:matrix.org> realistically which one is easier for them to accomplish

<ofrnxmr> Anyway, such speculative gossip ate for lounge or #monero

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> well last time i spoke to him he also told me funding is not an issue, hence i said need to bring the money to the people! attract people with talent that have nothing to do with xmr so far. > <@ofrnxmr> They have not requested any funding.

<ofrnxmr> Correct. Funding is not an issue. Generalfund doesnt offer bounties

<ofrnxmr> There are probably 5-10 different proposals from people loosely or unrelated to monero

<ofrnxmr> Including offers from dash, firo, ideas that are theorized from zcash, implemented on bch

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: but you agree that progress has been very slow here the last 3-4 years?

<ofrnxmr> No

<ofrnxmr> The past year has not been slow

<ofrnxmr> Before that, yes

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> ok i am sorry i did not attent here the last year, my apologies

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> imo, if you offer up a sizable bounty of 50k+ for tasks that "needs someone to dedicate time to an implementation" the problem will solve itself quickly

<ofrnxmr> There is a second (and third) repo for the fcmp work. Fcmp, the fcmp ffi integration, and carrot are notable

<ofrnxmr> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: The current proposal is 50k for a book about it

<ofrnxmr> Other proposals (publish or perish, detective mining, dns checkpoints) havent asked for any funding. Some/most contributors are already paid

<syntheticbird> @longtermwhale:matrix.org I agree money can bring more talent, but I currently do not see the Monero Project having a good enough infrastructure to reach more people. Bounties do not particularly attract people that would be willing to work for a single project for years to come.

<elongated:matrix.org> Source of this 4M number ? > <@ofrnxmr> Theres a potential 4M xmr that has been seized from DNM etc

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: then the situation is unchanged for 3-4 years already (unable to reach more talent)

<syntheticbird> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: That's always better than losing talents

<syntheticbird> but yeah it's sad

<syntheticbird> Useful, long-term talents would come as monero increase in popularity, naturally. The delisting and other shenanigans during these last years has truly put monero grown on hold

<syntheticbird> monero growth*

<syntheticbird> obv that's my observation. others are free to disagree

<syntheticbird> I have the impression that Monero is this weird state when you play an RTS game and you consolidated an advanced technology and power but without expanding. You're resilient to external attacks but now that map is set, the game is taking longer and longer to complete because you haven't prioritized expanding.

<syntheticbird> Disgressing a bit of the research topics at hand, but I think modernizing onramps and offramps, like retoswap can only be beneficial for monero, and in many unsuspected aspects.

<rucknium> This is a good conversation topic for #monero-research-lounge:monero.social . Or even #monero-community:monero.social .

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> @ofrnxmr: seems like nothing is a joke these days

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> rucknium just give me your wallet for donation and let us coffee talk for once

<ofrnxmr> @rucknium:monero.social :P > <@ofrnxmr> Anyway, such speculative gossip ate for lounge or #monero

<ofrnxmr> @longtermwhale:matrix.org: Rucknium.me/donate