<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: What I don't understand about PoS is that its security relies on the external market value of its native coin. PoW security is more internal. We can safely assume that the cost of powering computers will remain significant for the foreseeable future. If that cost were to become extremely cheap, the wor [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/4uS1tsQKa2tOMWIy

<articmine> @spirobel:kernal.eu: POS has not solved the nothing at stake problem. The "solution" is use proof of collateral instead, and have algorithms punish misdeeds by validators via slashing of or part of the collateral.

<articmine> This is no different from the replacement of financial institution regulations, jurys and udges with an "AI" algorithm that acts as judge, jury and executioner

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @articmine: Don't listen to spirobel. He is either unhinged or a troll who thinks everyone works for the CIA

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> I recommend blocking him when talking about serious Monero issues

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> ArticMine, I've always respected your work. I recall your contributions to scaling on the Bitcoin forums from way back when, and I will never forget your bitcointalk signature illustrating how disk space scaled

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Don't waste your intelligence on people like spirobel

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Remember pirateat40?

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> I remember the good old times. I was always there, but spirobel and the other trolls were not. PoW is the future, not PoS. Don't let the PoS shills ruin Monero by turning it into Solana

<articmine> @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org: I do. He was my example of POS failure when in 2015 I came up with The Second Pirate Savings and Trust attack against POS.

<articmine> It is very simple POS cannot tell the difference between a beneficiary and a nominee.

<articmine> @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org: I won't

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Thank you

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/SldbHOoNoIUNLygzLCakLtwb.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> can we please ban @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org

<spirobel:kernal.eu> overstepped the line many times

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> Maybe some of the guys in this chat should share with all of us where they buy the spoons of wisdom for breakfast

<spacekitty69420:matrix.org> drama O_O

^ and tried to start pointing out where spirobel lived/lives

<longtermwhale:matrix.org> any opinion from the ones that track the qubic stuff if lowering to 10 confirmations is reasonable again?

it didn't matter if it was 10 or 30 as it could be reversed for you regardless

they haven't selfish mined in a couple of weeks, however

you can see they also have dropped a bit on effective position/hashrate v

they still pull 1.3-1.4GH/s nowadays at peaks

there could also be hidden miners attempting to do the same, although unlikely

unless there's an active attack, 10 is fine, and unless they get very lucky on the first attempt you'd see them try a few times ahead of time

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: What the actual fuck. spirobel is creating fake conversations. I never sent these messages. Here is the real chat:

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/NjfCHRUVMSDGjldywMuMuQfi.png (chat.png)

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Let's continue #monero-offtopic:monero.social as this room is for important conversation not emotional breakdowns

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @articmine: @articmine:monero.social: I was just joking. Dont misunderstand this as a support of PoS. I support many of your concerns about PoS. If you want to keep this gon account around, I wont be contributing any more to this channel. There are certain lines that cant be crossed.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org: mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/TcsUCPUtEYUqztHzjQiWIroY.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> that is an open lie

<spirobel:kernal.eu> you deleted the messages you sent at first

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Why do you keep bringing up drama?

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Just stop. No one has the time for this and you're clogging up an important channel

<syntheticbird> First of all, spirobel never said anything about CIA. > <@hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> Don't listen to spirobel. He is either unhinged or a troll who thinks everyone works for the CIA

<syntheticbird> Second of all, im so paranoid i could legit think gon is spirobel alt lmfao

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @plowsof:matrix.org I sent you a message this needs to stop

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @syntheticbird: He keeps calling me a spook in the off-topic channel, but I'm done with this childish conversation and have better things to do

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> For the record @syntheticbird:monero.social:

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/MDOApVGdhGZceNTzsxdMNKDY.png (proof.png)

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> I've spoken to some Monero community members, and apparently, spirobel is prone to this crazy behavior, so it's best to just ignore him. He will get bored and start coding instead

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> #monero-offtopic:monero.social

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> Or just ignore each other plz

<rottenwheel:unredacted.org> @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org: take that bs to community next time, please.

<rottenwheel:unredacted.org> while lounge is off-topic, I'd rather you keep that in community or anywhere else, neither main MRL nor lounge. Thanks.

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @rottenwheel:unredacted.org: Lounge isnt off-topic, and the discussion isnt welcome in community either. Dont listen to this guy

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> > <@hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> What I don't understand about PoS is that its security relies on the external market value of its native coin. PoW security is more internal. We can safely assume that the cost of powering computers will remain significant for the foreseeable future. If that cost were to become extremely [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/tYOzy8QKSEFOaUlp ]

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> if power cost somehow became effectively zero, the bottleneck would become available hardware/compute. I don't think it would necessarily render PoW ineffective

<articmine> @monero.arbo:matrix.org: It is not that simple. For many Monero miners the electricity cost can be effectively zero. This works if they heat a living or work space using electric resistive heat and they keep their mining electricity consumption below their pre mining heating electricity consumption

<articmine> This. is nothing more than the first law of thermodynamics. The heat previously produced from the electric heaters is now produced by the Monero miners. No change in the electricity bill and no change in the carbon footprint

<articmine> The XMR produced is simply a rebate on the electric heating bill

<articmine> A side benefit of this is that the XMR produced is also ultra private

<articmine> Sometimes the best things are free

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> > <@articmine> This. is nothing more than the first law of thermodynamics. The heat previously produced from the electric heaters is now produced by the Monero miners. No change in the electricity bill and no change in the carbon footprint

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> Idk about global statistics or anything, but resistive electric heat sucks compared to heat pumps or gas and I think most places that need heat tend not to use resistive electric heating

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> speaking as someone who utilizes the waste heat and also has gas heat

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> plus, you know. Summer happens ):

<ravfx:xmr.mx> resistive electric heat is extremely inefficient yeah. If you still use that ancian tech then yeah, mining in the winter is actually "free".