<hardhatter> @monero.arbo:matrix.org: Less efficient than heat pump but not gas

<articmine> @ravfx:xmr.mx: A heat pump is more efficient when the outside temperature is close to the inside temperature, but that efficiency really falls when it starts to get very cold outside. Like - 20 C

<articmine> In Canada and northern Europe it is very common.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I was sure they have heat pump that work fine even at -25C now.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @hardhatter: Gas is less efficient that resistive afaik. You can't beat 100% efficiency (resistive) except when you cheat (playing with gas proprieties when you expend and compress them... Now when you burn them)

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Yeah, apparently gas can be like 99% efficient at best. That would be lower than 100%.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But sure, gas might be cheaper than electricity for heating if gas is cheaper per kwh compared to electricity at your place. But price != efficiency and price are widely variable depending of location.

<hardhatter> @articmine: They usually get around this with a ground source heat pump that can typically operate at -40C or more, but set ups can still be installed with even lower minimum outdoor temperatures

<ravfx:xmr.mx> But yeah, settlement that are 5+ years probably all have resistive heating. Now the heat pump are a thing but it will take time to replace the whole installed park of heaters. I did heat that Canada did have subsidies for that, might be wrong.

<ravfx:xmr.mx> If you are paying for you juice and still have resistive heating, it make totally sense to mine right... Just leave the thermostats where they are and mine...

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Just that... It might be more profitable to switch for heat pump thing especially if subsidies are still online

<hardhatter> And i know in Scandinavian countries GSHPs are very affordable due to a very well developed market for them. Idk about Canada. I know in the US they can cost like 3-10x more

<hardhatter> Including cost of installation

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Here we dont use heating or cooling

<ravfx:xmr.mx> I have like 2.4kw worth of solar power and try to burn most of it

<ravfx:xmr.mx> @hardhatter: They cost more but considering the 5-600% efficiency rating there worth it

<ravfx:xmr.mx> Have to preserve all the energy we can to power the AIs and to charge the EVs

<preland> +1 on the electrical heating thing. In almost every use case, using energy to transfer temperature from one location to another is insurmountably more efficient than directly converting that energy into heat.

<articmine> @ravfx:xmr.mx: Solar is the other one. If done properly can produce a lot of excess power during the summer months. For me this comes down to who will pay more, the local utility or the Monero network. I am putting close to 40 kw of rooftop solar on my house here in Vancouver, Canada

<articmine> What is really interesting is that in British Columbia we are like 100% renewables for the grid. Just south of us Washington State in the US has a ton of coal power. The trade is very interesting. During the day we sell carbon free power to the US at premium prices, then at night we buy back coal fired electricity at dirt cheap prices

<articmine> There is a 0.1 CAD difference per kWh between day and night in the retail price of electricity here

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> PoW is better > <@monero.arbo:matrix.org> if power cost somehow became effectively zero, the bottleneck would become available hardware/compute. I don't think it would necessarily render PoW ineffective

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> I'm not interested in giving any more credibility to PoS

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> It should be called PoB (Proof of Bank)

<articmine> It is actually PoBR ( Proof of Bank Reserve) or PoC (Proof of Collateral)

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> @hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org: I'll only be interested in debating PoS again once kayabanerve releases his finality layer book

<hunterxhunterlover:matrix.org> It may have some merit

<articmine> I expect this to be a very interesting academic book on privacy and PoS. The practical application is another matter.

<articmine> By the way I am not opposed to academic research at all

<articmine> It is actually very important, and valuable

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> > <@ravfx:xmr.mx> Gas is less efficient that resistive afaik. You can't beat 100% efficiency (resistive) except when you cheat (playing with gas proprieties when you expend and compress them... Now when you burn them)

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> perhaps "efficiency" isn't the right word but it's cheaper in many places. Plus, electric is "100%" efficient from the outlet, but there are significant losses. A way to look at it is: burning gas to run a turbine to generate electric to run 100 miles or, just burning it in the house and using the heat directly

<monero.arbo:matrix.org> Of course, then it depends where you get your electric

<syntheticbird> superconducting cpu when

<syntheticbird> literally 0% losses

<syntheticbird> all the ohm lover hates it

15:23:20 <br-m> <syntheticbird> literally 0% losses

no, switching a bit (or erasing information) takes energy

that's why reversible computation is being looked into

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @monero.arbo:matrix.org: What abt burning the house directly

<syntheticbird> @ofrnxmr:xmr.mx: winter lover hate that one simple trick