You don't need a DAG to parallelize wallet scanning or revalidating the chain.

Unless your goal is to fragment consensus, where only subsets of the network are trusted to validate chunks.

Not sure how a multi-dimensional DAG would improve restore speed. A full node still needs to validate every block. That's what it means to be a full node.

(plus storing the whole chain)

There are a lot of design considerations. Do you have a whitepaper that lays out your full proposal? No idea how you'd make the stablecoin aspect appealing/sensical.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> > <UkoeHB> Unless your goal is to fragment consensus, where only subsets of the network are trusted to validate chunks.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I’m happy to answer that. I did implement sharding and Mina style (post quantum and private) stark recursion that makes the chain not bloat with TX amount, DAG width etc. In fact, nodes can prove with only 1.8mb of data. This also required building a trustless decider which allows a proof to prove another proof. So per block [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/xta2gpELaHBHdjNr ]

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: I’m a solo dev and have basically been experimenting the whole time until I found a solution. The above is what I came up with and so far it’s working on the testnet that I’ll be releasing publicly soon.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I do have a whitepaper V3 releasing soon with updated information on the development progress as it changes every day.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Without nodes knowing the entire chains data this also has privacy wins as a hacked node or post quantum attack can’t leak the entire chains data.

How are double spends handled?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: Every layer has nullifiers and double spend protection which makes double spend cryptographically infeasible. I ran adversarial test at every step in order to make sure that a tainted or incorrect spend is loudly rejected so there are no silent failures.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> In fact, doing it this way offers a sound improvement, because double spends are prevented structurally rather than an add on later.

<jpk68:matrix.org> Yeah, but what are you using as the nullifier

What do you mean by 'every layer has double spend protection'? Tbh I am not knowledgeable on sharding. I only know Nakamoto and FBA.

Like walk me through this: what happens when two different shards receive txs spending the same enotes?

FCMP++ uses a fixed-order curve tree, how do the shards coordinate to construct it (without presumably losing the purported tx speed benefits)?

<sgp_> why are you wasting your time with this? :p

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @jpk68:matrix.org: Poseidon 2 hash based deterministic nullifiers. The spend secret is derived from the nullifier. The circuit constraints force nk = H(sk) and nf= H(yada yada) so a prover can’t choose an arbitrary double spend. Since it’s deterministic one note = exactly 1 nf spend.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Essentially a PQ transfer tx on my chain has exactly one input and the consensus gate requires its key-8’she to equal the proof of the nullifier byte for byte.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @sgp_: You don’t have to believe it. You can see it when it launches.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I was invited here to talk to “open minded” experts who like to discuss research grade cryptography.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Except none of the described technology is related to Monero, a block DAG wouldn't impact wallet scanning, FCMP++ isn't post-quantum, and block DAGs don't scale.

sgp_: I like to understand things

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Claiming to have copied various things from various other projects and slapped them together suggests you just had a LLM lie to you about what it's doing, while you aren't actually aware yourself.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> If you'd like to be treated seriously, publish your actual work and not just your claims.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.org: Well that’s the thing. I didn’t use only Monero technology. I didn’t discriminate on the source. If one project had good tech I decided to integrate it. I won’t lie like I invented the tech or wrote the papers.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> "none of the described technology is related to Monero"

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> key word was "none"

"Essentially a PQ transfer tx on my chain has exactly one input" this would progressively split all funds into smaller and smaller amounts, no? Which doesn't seem practical.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> And yes I used an LLMs help to develop it just like you guys do. But to assume that I’m an amateur is in bad faith. > <@kayabanerve:matrix.org> Claiming to have copied various things from various other projects and slapped them together suggests you just had a LLM lie to you about what it's doing, while you aren't actually aware yourself.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Your type of skeptical attitude is why you’ll lose talent. My code will be open source and I’m only here because I was asked to come. But don’t disrespect me like I’m incompetent and would believe an AI without building my own harness.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Don’t think I owe you anything, I’m just here to talk. Respect must be given to receive it back

Yeah I also wonder what aspect uses Monero design.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> > just like you guys do

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Monero is one of the communities more cautious against LLMs, as far as I've seen.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> You should be open minded to feedback on how you present yourself.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> You're making very big claims, not actually providing evidence, and have unclear comments.

LLMs are only used for debugging here and maybe suggesting solutions to annoying problems (like serialization).

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> If you want to have a discussion, you need to present yourself well enough for people to want to have a discussion with you.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Providing accurate details on your work, and links to it such that it can be reviewed, is necessary.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> So, would you like to link your work or would you like to accept it can't feasibly be discussed because it only exists in front of you?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> (and allegedly at that. big claims require evidence)

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The actual devs of Monero use LLMs. I saw the screenshots from their discords. In fact LLMs are smart enough to hack any project. It would be a grave mistake to underestimate developing technology. Monero just recently had an exploit so no code is 100% secure. > <@kayabanerve:matrix.org> > just like you guys do

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Of course none of my claims can be confirmed yet because the testnet or code isn’t public yet.

Monero has a discord?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: A private one.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> We're not devs of Monero?

Wait what lol

I feel so left out

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.org: Hey it’s decentralized I don’t know for sure lol

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Monero just recently had an exploit?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> But the issue here is that we are the developers of Monero and you're telling us we aren't, so it's rather clear you don't actually know what you're discussing.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> For reference, koe is the architect of Seraphis and I'm the architect of FCMP++.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.org: Well technically we “all” are developers of Monero. Isn’t that what decentralization is?

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Yes but we are actually the architects of protocol upgrades and work immediately with the people merging code which is released into what Monero is

Monero dev means contributing to the Monero core repo, there are also Monero ecosystem devs who work on wallets and such

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> And you're mentioning some private Discord server which sounds like script kiddies lying to you about who they are lol

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> Also, what exploit did Monero recently have?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.org: Well I’m a big fan of your guys work! And I wouldn’t be able to do what I do without your advances in the space. All I did was try to expand upon it.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The goal is to not just copy the work but to expand it into something that works and is safe from quantum threats.

Well if you want to talk about your project, I had a number of questions unanswered above ^.^

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> The issue is, as we've tried to say, you're making unclear and conflicting claims with no evidence, justification, or rational, but then acting as if we're disrespecting you when we push back on that. While you're welcome to have research discussions, it should be clear you need to update how you present yourself and the conversation you want to have.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I'd like to simply be linked to a design document/whitepaper and code repository, and also to hear what exploit Monero recently had.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: Great! I can go back up and explain but I’d appreciate a more friendly attitude from Mr or Mrs Kaya lol.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> It seems that no matter what I say you guys won’t believe it until the code itself is released. So I see little benefit to discussing further. You can’t simply treat everyone as a scammer. There are many intelligent people out there who can benefit the community.

I'd also like to hear what you think this exploit was

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: All code has vulnerabilities. It would be crazy to claim that your code has 0 vulnerabilities. Especially with the new growth of AI there are some things that we don’t understand on the same level.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> reddit.com/r/Monero/s/wTopF27BA6

Ah p2pool. It's misleading to call that a Monero exploit, as it is only a defect in one pool's software.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: Possibly, but it still stands to say that we can’t get complacent and must stay with the times and always look to patch new vulnerabilities.

<kayabanerve:matrix.org> I didn't call you a scammer. I said, due to the many inacurracies you had apparently stated and continue to state, you seem like a novice who relies on an LLM. I was blunt but I'm blunt to most people, and this is how I behave. I also informed you how your behavior comes off.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:matrix.org: Well Kaya you are right. I “was” a novice when I started. But now I’m novice no more lol.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> You can get good at anything if you put 15 hours every day into it for months. Research is my full time job. I have no investors, donations, clout or backing. Just work ethic.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I don’t implore anyone here yo believe me, but if they ask me a question I try to answer.

Then please, answer my questions. Lets not get bogged down in drama and focus on the technicals.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: Agreed, I’ll scroll up and answer to the best of my abilities. My apologies if I say a slight inaccuracy as the scope of the code is huge.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> > <UkoeHB> "Essentially a PQ transfer tx on my chain has exactly one input" this would progressively split all funds into smaller and smaller amounts, no? Which doesn't seem practical.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The first miner still wins but in the case of a duplicate spend when a later block merges with two siblings which builds the merged block in canonical ghostdag order and then runs “resolve conflicts” which 1. The first order wins and the nullifier is claimed. 2. The duplicate is pruned and not applied. 3. the losing block [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/mY6ZhJELb2h1ZC1H ]

That answer does not connect with the question you quoted

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Sorry, I was answering the double spend one.

Ok I'm confused. Can you be more literal/complete about 'walking me through it'? Two nodes get competing txs, then they do what to eventually reach consensus s.t. a new tx spending an enote from one of the competing txs can be accepted, but a tx referencing the other will be rejected? "Every node agrees on which spend won." yes, how?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> So the way I have it designed is that 1 note could contain any amount from 1-infinity (or whatever). Picture it as a dollar bill that can have any amount on it. The only people who know the dollar bill amount is the sender and receiver. The chain itself has constant cover traffic per tx that obfuscates whether a tx ever even h [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/tf63hJELaEVCMDht ]

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Although only the sender and receiver know the amount the wallet that is receiving it is able to prove the tx is valid with ZK tech. It all goes into the ability for one proof to prove another proof.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The notes always stay the value you select on chain and do not divide over time.

Right that tracks. You might be interested in the intro to Seraphis raw.githubusercontent.com/UkoeHB/Se…master/seraphis/Seraphis-0-0-18.pdf which lays out the basic framework for tx protocols.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> UkoeHB: Thanks Koe! I’ll give it a read 😊.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> My main goal is to learn while also providing some sort of value to the project. I am by no means an expert, but just a random guy who tries to learn something new each day 🙌.

04:44:41 <br-m> <casmonerodev:matrix.org> reddit.com/r/Monero/s/wTopF27BA6

none of these had code pushed/produced by AI, btw

same for my own reimplementation git.gammaspectra.live/P2Pool/consensus

on anything Monero any production is notoriously bad. however for review usages it is quite apt as an extra set, even when it can fail with false positives sometimes

belittling actual monero devs telling you "no" with "actual monero devs use AI" while basically your messages sounding like produced by AI as well and passing off as an expert, where it sounds like you are just a middle copy paster. Specially ending it with "I am no expert, just providing value"

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> That’s fair and I commend you guys! I’m sure there will be more people like me who are AI cryptographers. It’s a great tool to use so that workflows can be sped up but not 100% relied on. The AI itself is only as good as the developer controlling it. > <DataHoarder> none of these had code pushed/produced by AI, btw

and I can tell you it sucks at producing cryptography code even if you provide it with tight underlying libraries

also most monero-specific developers aren't on that specific community driven Discord

don't take it as a sounding board or full sample of what is being used

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: In my experience it takes a lot of watching over it because of the context drift.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The only way AI can be good at cryptography is with a strict harness which includes cardinal rules, safety hooks and constant notes and test driven development. Even with that the catch is you still have to stop it if it starts hallucinating or getting off track.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> People like you guys who can code without AI would be great at using it because it’s simply a multiplier of what you already know.

as in, I cannot trust any output produced even after review, it takes longer to review than produce it myself. so effectively any usage is detrimental

most of the time it's producing outright actively harmful implementations, not even "hallucinations"

if the research you bring to MRL channel is "the AI told me this" that is no different from what someone else can achieve and instead places the burden on people here effectively talking back with "the AI" as you are a middle person passing messages back and forth.

specially when asked questions where they get answered with "trust in the me that trusts in AI" without something to show either

that is why you will receive this feedback and pushback

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Haha yeah in your case I’d continue doing it your way because you are in fact smarter than the AI lol. > <DataHoarder> as in, I cannot trust any output produced even after review, it takes longer to review than produce it myself. so effectively any usage is detrimental

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I’m less of a coder but understand the big idea of the concepts so I can stop it when writing the detrimental code but that requires constant monitoring and looking over the code and using other agents to try to hack it and find and close vulnerabilities.

the issue with cryptography and specially some of the edge Monero one that gets used is that it's less about understanding the "big idea of the concepts" and instead being flooded by waterfalls of minutia that failing at any specific one ends up with invalid proofs

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> > <DataHoarder> if the research you bring to MRL channel is "the AI told me this" that is no different from what someone else can achieve and instead places the burden on people here effectively talking back with "the AI" as you are a middle person passing messages back and forth.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Well you don’t blindly trust the AI you can read the code and run test. Just like you guys can peer review it you can use different platforms and other agents to peer review it. It all goes down to the traditional developer vs AI developer tension in which i personally believe that there can be a happy medium.

which I am not claiming on understanding fully either, " you can read the code and run test" < this does prove nothing except that you might have eyes

tests can pass but you can still have critical issues that won't get picked up at all

formally proven systems might be nice but even those depend on people that can review that the proofs were done correctly

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: Very true! That’s why public peer review is important! One unsound function is all it takes for any project to be destroyed but that doesn’t mean you can’t do your best to make it as sound as possible.

when facing novel elements that it hasn't been trained on you will get garbage output even more likely. Guess what it doesn't have a lot of training data/code to go off :)

"That’s why public peer review is important!" < but you are placing the burden on everyone else you push the project onto, you see?

you don't understand it, you pass whatever the AI convinces you, you run tests that are also AI generated even if taken from chain, and when challenged you cannot explain the minutia due to the challenge gap (AI randomly came up with it)

what value is being brought to the table except more work to no gain for others?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: I mean I already will have reviewed it countless times and ran many adversarial test on it before releasing the code.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The burden only goes on those who don’t “believe” that I put in the work.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> Every time new technology comes out there will always be old school vs new school but it doesn’t have to be that way. AI is getting smarter each day because it IS you guys work. It’s simply a scraping tool, and part of the reason why we aren’t all nuked is because the full capability models aren’t available to the public lol.

Monero is less about believing/trusting heh

"I already will have reviewed it countless times" < no AI will have to because, were you able to understand the underlying minutia of the cryptography involved?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: You will be able to use it and see that it works. If you want to see how it works the code will be available. Nobody has to trust it, they’ll be able to verify themselves but they themselves have brought upon the burden of verification by not trusting it lol.

"see that it works" is 100% not a way to prove it's safe

"but they themselves have brought upon the burden of verification by not trusting it lol" < utterly irresponsible

again I just hear "trust me bro"

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: If AI is so dumb why are all of these projects being hacked by AI? Why is the government banning AI?

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> What you don’t understand is that it scrapes SOUND work but sometimes conflates info. A good cryptographer can manage this.

AI not coming up with a way to break something is not proving it is safe, specially in a cryptography way

and again, there usually isn't anything to scrape Monero related. it's novel work where best it can do is hallucinate

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: Is any code truly safe anymore? None of us are safe from exploits.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: It’s actually pretty good a reading research papers and bringing the idea to life.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The AI is only as good as the operator and the harness is works on. Saying AI cannot write cryptography is like saying all harnesses are the same. The person who found the Zcash mint exploit found it with a custom ai harness. No by hand devs found it.

I see nothing will get through, specially in the burden you place on others.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: You place the burden on yourself by not trusting it lol. Why is your ego so big that you think your code is untouchable? You should be more humble and know that no code is 100% secure. There are always bugs even with peer review.

"You place the burden on yourself by not trusting it lol" < this is trust me bro, and Monero doesn't work like this, which is why you will get pushmack

pushback even*

you could engage in more current topics and throw all your energy onto reviewing the curve divisors / generalized bulletproofs and circuits as used in new FCMP++ code github.com/monero-oxide/monero-oxide/tree/fcmp%2B%2B/crypto if you'd like

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: Well if they don’t believe they can read the code and verify lol. They can even use AI to verify if they don’t feel like reading it themselves.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> The very people who give pushback are the ones who act entitled and believe the world owes them something. They’ve been traumatized from past experiences and could never get over something they trusted not being real.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I say they need therapy lol

"You place the burden on yourself by not trusting it lol. Why is your ego so big that you think your code is untouchable?" < we are not even talking about code but formally proven systems. which again there is none here. and even those need to be reviewed to prevent shortcuts

a big part of how code is even written by myself is that I trust myself less than even others. after all I am just producing my own feverish hallucinations :)

the way you act is that by producing the code you can push it out as a matter of fact and get it implemented. you got told about how reviews and proving works, disregarded it, and are calling people that develop Monero or write the papers you'd (who are we kidding, not you) have to implement as "they need therapy lol"

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: Well at least you provide your distrust equally, even to yourself so I can’t be mad at it lol.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I know that you guys wrote the papers but those exact papers have been scraped by AI which then allows people to be able to build it with a high degree of soundness and speed. That is no discount to the hard work that you guys put in which allow projects like mine to be possible.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> But as in needing therapy I believe the world needs more trust and positivity. Especially Monero. We don’t have to all believe in the non-trusting mindset. We can all have our own views and opinions.[... more lines follow, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/nbKFipELR0Q1TmM2 ]

trust works in centralized banking

not Monero :D

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> There can be a happy medium lol. Blind trust doesn’t work.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I’m a big fan of trustless architecture. As long as the said dev removes the trust from his work that should be fine. But being skeptical of someone off the bat without knowing their experience is a flaw. I’m a firm believer in the belief that anyone can teach you something.

what did I miss?

I use AI to review my code, and find bugs. Not to write new code

<rbrunner7> "If we view every new researcher with high scrutiny" Just my two cents: We are more or less forced to do that, by circumstances. If you follow how the things happening around here for some longer time, you will probably come around to understand.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> sech1: Hi sech!! I’m just a random trying to spread love and positivity to the most unstrusting chat lol

Because code written by AI is the code I don't know and don't recognize, it becomes hard to maintain without AI -> death spiral

AI is a good performance multiplier when used for code reviews - it catches a lot of coding errors quickly

<rbrunner7> Oh, I think this will become one big happy party :)

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @rbrunner7: Yes Monero is born from strife and hardened by everyone coming after it to destroy it. But hopefully I can help you guys smile a bit more 😊

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> sech1: In order for AI to write organized human maintainable code you have to create the hook for it to do so. Otherwise it’ll make confusing slop lol

<spirobel:kernal.eu> I am a firm believer that people that think ai & quantum is some kind of wunderwaffe should just buy quantum and ai stocks and be done with it. I am tired of these constant distractions away from solving the real ux issues that hold p2p digital cash back.

You don't understand. For the code to be _maintainable_, someone must KNOW it.

If AI spits out 500 lines of new code, no one KNOWS it

This is why I write all code myself

🥳 > <@rbrunner7> Oh, I think this will become one big happy party :)

If you leave maintenance to AI too, you dig the slop grave for your own project

sech1: or not even maintenance, if it's written to start with

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Really all Monero needs for now is a speed increase, but we will need to solve the post quantum issue soon. P2P digital cash can be done in many different ways.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> sech1: I understand where you are coming from. We all have different workflows and AI cryptography is a new field. That doesn’t quite mean we should not research it or push it forward.

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> I’m not trying yo be “that guy” advocating for AI 😂. Can we not just put our development differences aside? Different workflows work for different people.

it's not about development differences but recklessness on passing cryptography work without proofs or understanding it

<casmonerodev:matrix.org> DataHoarder: So you are saying it’s impossible to utilize AI for cryptography? That is not factual.

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/fuzPpJfaHEeZPqeMdDXCPPAV.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> its the typeshit you find in the "message requests" tab on twitter

maybe for offtopic :D

<spirobel:kernal.eu> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/kernal.eu/jOgTwOvfvPtnthWCimDnTDHr.png (image.png)

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @plowsof:matrix.org: maybe lets just remove this guy. it seems like an ai generated white paper scam

will remove the ai agent , time wasting

<rbrunner7> Whatever it is, it is impressive. Maybe it all falls down like a house of cards if you only start to look a little closer, but first sight is breath-taking IMHO: monerousd.org, especially monerousd.org/developers.html

<rbrunner7> (And no, no spam bot has taken over my account, I think taking a look might be important: If it's so easy to build so impressively-looking things by only playing around with AIs a bit, that's a whole new threat IMHO.)

<rbrunner7> And fear not, I already rest my case now :)

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> where is the github?

<rbrunner7> Not sure, but I got from the discussion that the source is not yet published. Who knows whether it ever will ...

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> if its not published, then the conversation is probable DOA

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> not opensource/no github and "coming soon" downloads is super scammy

<rbrunner7> Hmm: github.com/search?q=monerousd&type=repositories

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> mrelay.p2pool.observer/m/matrix.org/TTfvYukFaeDggisStuOQbwyy.png (Screenshot from 2026-06-27 10-00-28.png)

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> ofc it looks good

<rbrunner7> You know, wanting to have a Monero based stable coin is one of the FAQs in the Monero subreddit. If somebody puts up something so convincing-looking, a lot of victims could be more or less guaranteed.

<rbrunner7> If this is how scams look now in the age of AI, that's scary.

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> the dev created the github account ~1 month before publishing the repo

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> another red flag

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> I mean tbh it's kinda easy to identify scams

<rbrunner7> For us maybe?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> @rbrunner7: so whats wrong with fUSD?

<ofrnxmr:xmr.mx> its bytecoin(zano)-based

<spirobel:kernal.eu> > <@rbrunner7> Whatever it is, it is impressive. Maybe it all falls down like a house of cards if you only start to look a little closer, but first sight is breath-taking IMHO: monerousd.org, especially monerousd.org/developers.html

<spirobel:kernal.eu> my breath was taken immediately seeing the double em dashes and the mountains of llm generated bullshit. honestly i dont get why you guys keep chatting with these scam alts instead of doing 5 seconds of google search

<spirobel:kernal.eu> since the gon gate i never trust new alts

<spirobel:kernal.eu> i also think the idea of stable coins in general is retarded. how would anyone take this seriously after what happened with terra luna?

<spirobel:kernal.eu> just insulting to still push this shit in 2026

<hbs:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: There are many types of stable coins, the algorithmic UST cannot be compared to RWA backed USDT/USDC, crypto backed LUSD/ZCHF/DEURO or mixed like DAI

<spirobel:kernal.eu> those are just iou's and when they touch anything privacy related loss of funds is a given. zama freezing most recent case in point

<spirobel:kernal.eu> 1. "hopefully rwa backed" like usdt /usdc is a hassle when touching privacy

<spirobel:kernal.eu> 2.algorithmic is a scam

<hbs:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: LUSD/DAI/ZCHF/DEURO have no freezing capability

<hbs:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: note that I am bot defending this shiny monerousd project, just tempering your statement comparing all stablecoins to UST

<spirobel:kernal.eu> no freezing capabilities but all kinds of weird collateral held by a dao. that is totally immune from governance drama. the price is also completely stable and never depegs

<spirobel:kernal.eu> either you have a bank like iou or you have some algorithmic dao, with too many eggs in one basket that nobody has the time or patience to properly evaluate the risks and unintended side effects of

<spirobel:kernal.eu> it might be a better approach to offer individual downside protection with monero as the collateral in a multisig. similar to how there are additional services during checkout

<spirobel:kernal.eu> so users could be able to buy downside protection while their funds are held in escrow for a bigger purchase that was made

<rbrunner7> "honestly i dont get why you guys keep chatting with these scam alts" Because it's fun? Because you have to know your enemy, the scammer that now cleverly weaponizes AI? Because sometimes some new person comes along and is not just bullshitting, but has something to say, even if only a bit? I honestly don't get why for some pe [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/_MudjpELeUtzTDhS ]

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> you're correct but where did you find this website? because it's not popular at all so you advertising it here kind of gives it relevance

<rbrunner7> From the conversation. Keyword "MoneroUSD". You are right, now you have to still actively search for it.

<rbrunner7> I guess with this amount of preparation going into it, this will soon "bloom" on the Monero subreddit and elsewhere.

<rbrunner7> And I kind of prepare for that moment here.

<rbrunner7> And yeah, well aware that a link is a link.

<thomasbuilds:matrix.org> oh yeah my bad didn't read full conv

<rbrunner7> @spirobel:kernal.eu: "just insulting to still push this shit in 2026" Scammers will probably continue to push this in 2026, 2027, 2028 .... and maybe with progressively better looking material

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> @Cas so i guess today was round 3? 😹

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> round 1: monero.forum/thread/monerousd-stablecoin-fcmp-privacy

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> round 2: monero.forum/thread/xmr-stablecoin-ecosytem

<drooling-retard:matrix.org> round3: this channel today i guess lol

<ashven:matrix.org> The concept itself is not bad i think it could be good idea for a side chain of Monero and use actual locked XMR so there is a meirt for that

<ashven:matrix.org> The issue here is that Monero can be complicated and it needs to be carefully handled and audited, especially with AI there need to be deep understanding of the code and implementation

<spirobel:kernal.eu> @ashven:matrix.org: the word "side chain" has an echo to it and paul sports jump scare appears (background: dark tunnel of abandoned bitcoin mine)

<ashven:matrix.org> @spirobel:kernal.eu: Of course if L1 can handle smart contracts theoretically, it could enable overcollateralized stable token by XMR on-chain pegged to US dollar but for things that cannot be done on L1. L2 and side chains will always take up that role as an opportunity there is no way around this.. Those chains/L2 feed up on L1 limitations

<spirobel:kernal.eu> > <@rbrunner7> "honestly i dont get why you guys keep chatting with these scam alts" Because it's fun? Because you have to know your enemy, the scammer that now cleverly weaponizes AI? Because sometimes some new person comes along and is not just bullshitting, but has something to say, even if only a bit? I honestly don't [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/jJDxkJELM0s2SDZr ]

<spirobel:kernal.eu> its not funny. crypto discourse is a pvp game between people that are sincere but want to avoid giving each others work attention or even acknowledge its existence. happy to talk to scammers though

<aillia:matrix.org> For the context, this Cas guy (xmrbazaar.com/user/TheCasDealer and x.com/thecasdealer) is a scammer: started his "career" in Monero a few months ago selling AI-generated / augmented Casascius physical bitcoins, got called out on bazaar, twitter etc, then switched to a swapper business with constantly changing [... too long, see mrelay.p2pool.observer/e/ptqqlpELRU1ZYkxs ]

> keep chatting with these scam alts

It's fun and it means others don't get to see their propaganda unchallenged

Silence can be taken as acceptance

am educating experience, ty

not funny and it has same vibes than many scam setups out there.at least it wasn't vague posting this time ("if you know you wouldn't ask")

*an

aillia: good context thanks

<kiersten5821:matrix.org> i'm not convinced drivechains are a scam > <@spirobel:kernal.eu> the word "side chain" has an echo to it and paul sports jump scare appears (background: dark tunnel of abandoned bitcoin mine)

<elongated:matrix.org> @kayabanerve:monero.social: when “Book on a Finality Layer”