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m-relay
<leigh_2valid:matrix.org> wsp
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m-relay
<playmate7782:matrix.org> will their be layer 2 on monero?
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moneromooo
Unknown.
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Deja vu
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copypaste
hi sech1. u did some work for me on vanity address generator if u remember
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copypaste
i wonder if u would like to do for intel's SYCL. there is a conversion tool for cpp code called SYCLomatic.
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copypaste
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m-relay
<mr7seven7_91387_20052> where do you guys trade?
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m-relay
<mr7seven7_91387_20052> what are the safe options to trade these days?
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m-relay
<mr7seven7_91387_20052> what are the safe options for trading these days?
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tux
hello
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tux
Two questions. If I run a node without opening ports, does that mean I am not handling transactions? <- So that means I am just looking at the monero blockchain right? Like I am not participating, I am just a spectator legally speaking.
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tux
Second question, how large is the monero blockchain when pruning is enabled on first sync. Basically I only need to look at future transactions, all previous ones are not of interest and I need to save as much space as possible. I assume probably 25GB right?
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> you mean without opening the RPC one (18089, likely)
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plowsof
A pruned blockchain is (guessing) 65~GB
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moneromooo
Assuming you mean opening inbound ports, you'll still be part of the monero network. You'll get the chain and verify it. You will probably serve fewer blocks to peers, making the network a wee bit more brittle. You can still do everything a peer can, just with less connectivity. I doubt there's any legal distinction but who knows.
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moneromooo
You'll be receiving transactions as htey're received by others. With some extra delay, possibly.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> I am not sure it can receive transactions, unless the mechanism is pull; i.e.: its node asks for stuff out there. If the mechanism is push, i.e.: as soon as a node has a transaction it sends out to the peer, it cannot receive as the port is blocked
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> if the (all) the ports are closed, it cannot receive if it does not ask first, and the data should be sent in the same connection. It could not get anything in any inbound connection.
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tux
hm is there really no way for me to not verify transactions?
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tux
I know this sounds counterproductive to the idea of blockchain/crypto/monero sorry
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> What do you mean by "verify transactions"? Which ones, and how?
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tux
I just want to be able to see how many confirmations a transaction has and which transactions are in a block. I don't want to be a node in that sense, just a spectator.
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tux
I don't want transactions to be processed by me.
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> Do API calls to a block explorer if that's what you want.
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tux
that's the thing, I want to become the block explorer haha
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> You can even keep a little database in SQL of the API calls
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tux
without the legal implications of having processed / "touched" / handled a transaction
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moneromooo
If you want to know how many confirmations a tx has without verifying the chain, you can use somehing like $((RANDOM)) in bash, or equivalent in other languages,
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moneromooo
What are the legal implications of having processed / "touched" / handled a transaction ?
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tux
moneromooo: you know what they are. This is monero, the law will be whatever governments want it to be when they can't win the legal battle as usual
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tux
I don't want to be caught in the middle if something ever happens
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moneromooo
Are you trying to be dishonest ?
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tux
No
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moneromooo
Good. Then:
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moneromooo
What are the legal implications of having processed / "touched" / handled a transaction ?
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moneromooo
"I don't know" is an acceptable answer. "you know" isn't.
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tux
I just said it. I can totally see a node operator getting imprisoned just because someone with bad intentions used their node.
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moneromooo
OK, so that's just made up based on your fears, not fact. You should have said so.
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tux
so be it
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sech1
You can just check the transaction at one of explorers
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moneromooo
But that's just trusting some random tells you the truth.
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sech1
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tux
sech1: I want to become the explorer, so that you can insert the tx and check. The issue is that a) I would strain the explorer b) I would potentially break their ToS. I am sure most sites don't want you to use them as your own little site.
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tux
by "I would strain the explorer" I mean the third party.
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moneromooo
Do you expect lots of requests ?
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tux
most likely not
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tux
most certainly not*
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moneromooo
Then there should be no strain. It's a lookup, not a brute force search.
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moneromooo
(but still trusts the random)
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tux
yea
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sech1
You either run your own node + explorer, or trust someone else
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tux
Okay I know I stressed you all enough sorry haha but last last question. If you open the listed ports (forgot what they are) you only doing it to allow other nodes to sync right?
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tux
you're only doing it*
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m-relay
<trasherdk:monero.social> That's not how tcp/ip works.
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tux
I meant the purpose
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moneromooo
No. The only real difference is who opens the connection.
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moneromooo
It also seems a bit... not very nice... to offload your alleged legal worries to a third party.
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tux
"You can run Monero without an open port but others will not be able to connect to your node in order to help synchronize their nodes"
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moneromooo
Though I suppose the other party already decided to rnu a node anyway...
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tux
I think I got my information from a wrong source then sorry
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moneromooo
No, what you said is true. I think you misinterpreted it though.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> that is exactly how TCP works.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> You open the connection outbound and you get the data, specifying the target port. Your OS will then have a random port binding and the firewall will enable that.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> If then the server closes the connection and try to init again to you, it cannot if ports are closed
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moneromooo
A node can sync off you if you connect to them.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> but my question is: how its node if ports are closed can be notified of new transactions? the only way is asking about it and get in the same connection, as it cannot get any inbound
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> there is the possibility monerod works as a mix of inbound (flooding from peers) and outbound (flodding to peers and asks for new stuff)
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moneromooo
edge7: consider ssh: you connect to a server, send keystrokes, etc. But if a program suddently wakes up and outputs stuff, you still see it, even though you didn't send, say, a "look" command. Same here.
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moneromooo
(a program on the server)
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tux
m-relay: yea I know a bit about networking and tcp and things like 3-way-handshake process, I understood that part
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moneromooo
A TCP connection is two way. It's not like, say, UDP.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> its two way, but it is basically the same logical connection, which would be allowed by the firewall, as the firewall sees the oubound first
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tux
hm I will test around a bit and see how to continue from there. Thank you all I know I bothered you a bit with my confusion but we got it done in the end, Thanks again and have a great day (:
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> tux: you can also skip the explorer and directly ask remote monerod nodes for the data using RPC calls like get_block and get_transactions. That's what I do when I'm building my own transaction databases (usually from a local node actually).
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> It will give you back JSON. You have to parse it
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moneromooo
(tux has gone already)
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> that is exactly how TCP and firewall works.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> You open the connection outbound and you get the data, specifying the target port. Your OS will then have a random port binding and the firewall will enable that.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> If then the server closes the connection and try to init again to you, it cannot if ports are closed
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> Can we clarify this somehow:
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> """there is the possibility monerod works as a mix of inbound (flooding from peers) and outbound (flodding to peers and asks for new stuff)
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> """
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moneromooo
Your question is unclear to me, but I think this may answer it: whether Alice or Bob initiates a p2p connection, Alice and Bob can do the same things inside that connection.
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moneromooo
"same things" being, asking for blocks or txes, getting new blocks and txes as they're relayed, etc.
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moneromooo
Actually, one practical difference may be relaying stem txes in dandelion mode. While they both could do it, IIRC monerod only relays to outgoing peers to avoid sybil issues.
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moneromooo
(not 100% sure here, maybe 85% sure...)
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> it's hard to properly understand the issues caused by not having inbound connections at all, if the underlying mechanism is unclear.
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moneromooo
When thinking, I like to take extreme examples to see how it looks like at the limit.
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moneromooo
Here, you can imagine the extreme case of "every monerod has outbound connections, but no inbound ones".
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moneromooo
You clearly see that there will be no monero network because nobody will be able to connect to another monerod.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> that's for sure
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moneromooo
So if very few nodes accept incoming connections, you'll get a star style network.
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moneromooo
Rather than a true p2p one.
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moneromooo
So it makes those nodes into bottlenecks. Prime targets for spying or disruption.
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moneromooo
The "leaves" also have a tenuous connection to the network. No or very little redundancy.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> but if there is a decent number of machines accepting incoming connections, the ones with outbound only, can still connect and ask/get new stuff in that *same connection*.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> So if the above is true, then yes, having an only outbound node can still work, even though not optimal (not optimal for the network itself)
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moneromooo
Yes.
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Inge
It's just like if you want to call someone at a big corporation. You don't have a direct phone number, so you can't call them - but they could call you if they have your number. And once they do call you, you can both speak until one of you hang up the connection.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> yes, yes; for some stupid reason I started to map outbound connection (send transactions), inbound connections (get transactions) which is tru for client server, but not for p2p setting.
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> obviosuly once the connection is opened, data can easily flow both directions. cheers!
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> by the way in the last 3/4 days I am literally flodded by:
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> 2023-09-20 13:54:10.322 E Exception at [portable_storage::load_from_binary], what=duplicate key: support_flags
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> 2023-09-20 13:55:34.201 E duplicate key: support_flags
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> 2023-09-20 13:55:34.202 E Exception at [portable_storage::load_from_binary], what=duplicate key: support_flags
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elucidator
Inge: great analogy btw, it exactly matches to nat topology tbh.
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moneromooo
Someone modified their monerod and fucked it up (or made a new client and fucked it up). You can ignore it.
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Hey guys!
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> So what would you recomend for a total newb to monero! I would like to get things started of right and that means without KYC.
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nioc
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> So do folk just change fiat to XMR then buy things with XMR? Sorry, I'm totally ignorant about this kinda thing.
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> That's one option
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Could you elaborate on the other options?
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> There are also stores that sell gift cards
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Ohh you mean cakewallet?
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> And there are some crypto-funded prepaid card services - though I don't know of any one that accepts Monero directly. But you can use a swap service to convert your Monero to othet coins
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> I've read that with localmonero you can do in person trades. Sounds like a good way but very dangerous.
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Also Coincards, which sees a lot of xmr support
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> I'll need to search coincards
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Depends on the seller, and their payment methods. Localmonero is just an intermediary to connect traders
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> ahh ok
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> There are also multiple online stores selling all kinds of stuff. (I'm talking legitimate businesses, not darknet)
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> I always forget their names, maybe someone else has some links
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Yea, I get what your saying. I know you can buy stuff like vpns,book hotels and stuff.
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Also food, electronics, wine
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Fresh bread even
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hashem
o_0
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org>
monerica.com
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m-relay
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> What about just hoarding it for a rainy day? Like buying $20-50 a month worth and using it like a small investment?
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org>
shopinbit.com
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> yes, also. Why not.
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Cool, guess that would be a good way to at least take the leap whilst still learning.
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> thanks for taking the time to answer questions that have probs been asked bajiliion times!!!
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org>
kingofood.com
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> I personally tried this one
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Was it good?
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> excellent from a quality point of view, maybe slightly too expensive
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m-relay
<danatra:matrix.org> Even Focaccia?!🤤
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> I'm very curious to try some of them, but shipping costs are often quite expensive :/
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> have you personally tried this one:
shopinbit.com ?
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Don't know. Shopinbit does fresh bread delivery, maybe they have focaccia too
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Me? No, never tried unfortunately
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m-relay
<endor00:matrix.org> Either stuff is too expensive for my budget, or shipping costs are too high relative to the cost of the product :(
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m-relay
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> I know, look at this my last order:
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> I've done it just for fun really
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m-relay
<edge7:matrix.org> with the same money I could have bought 3
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Privacy tax ™️ Plowsof 1990