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m-relay
<eudaimon36:matrix.org> Even when questions annoy ofrnxmr , he's still willing to help. I annoy him all the time, but he never ceases to help :)
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i got a wild feature suggestion, probably not feasible but just interested in you guys' opinions on it
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> so in the same manner as veracrypt provides the "hidden partition feature" for plausible deniability (password 1 unlocks the decoy partition, password 2 unlocks the secret partition),
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> Idea would be to have a monero wallet address from which you can hide the transactions, and that way you can deny having ever recieved any monero to it if prompted by a regulator party
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> scenario would be like : "hey show me your monero transactions that happened on that wallet of yours with that address!" > user types password 1 to open his wallet, which shows that the address is clean, no moneros recieved there at all
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rbrunner
Good idea, but well, he have that already, with seed offset passphrases :)
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rbrunner
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> and then later when the regulator is satisfied with seeing that no monero was recieved, user types in password 2 which reveals that there are funds, and the history of transactions to hide
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> oh it exists already ?
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i need to check that out
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rbrunner
Exactly. You create a wallet with a seed. Transfer a few token XMR to it. Then "transform" the first seed into a second one. Use that for the big funds.
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RavFX
Ledger, Trezor & friends all have that feature afaik
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RavFX
it work for all coins they support too
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RavFX
It's called a decoy wallet, I think
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> not possible to do it via the regular monero wallet gui ?
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RavFX
Yes, rbrunner just told you how!
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RavFX
you can use an extra password with the seed
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RavFX
so you can set a wallet with the seed without the extra password for the decoy
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RavFX
and create another one with an extra password (so at the end it's a different wallet). It also work with feather-wallet
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> ok thanks, i'll try that out and include it in my monero tuto
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RavFX
It's a good added protection (if someone found your seed backup, they won't be able to use it to steal your coins)
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> yea i'm just looking at it from the regulatory perspective, you're on clearnet, and got a monero address to recieve donations to, you may get a knock on the door from regulators and may be forced to show them the wallet with the mentionned address
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RavFX
Yeah, for that, it's good to use different address so you don't mix you're public persona with you're private stuff
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> and i'm just trying to understand, when you have a transformed seed, and you give it to the regulators for them to check, they will actually see all the subadresses of your original wallet ?
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RavFX
If you give a seed to the scammers, with that extra password, they will be able to just use the seed alone without the password and check that one too. But they won't know if you have yet another wallet with a different password
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RavFX
of course for subaddress, there all linked to a wallet so if you give the seed for that wallet they will see all transaction to these subaddress to
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RavFX
but I think Seraphis will have extra view key stuff to limit what they can view with it
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Personally I would use different wallet for online/public stuff like donation and private stuff
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Or have the public one with a normal seed and the private one with the same seed + password or a different seed
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> ok moment, so what is the plausible deniability scenario exactly ? in my case i want to be able to say "hey i recieved nothing to this address", and i want to open my wallet where it explicitely shows that address and no balance
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Well, if you have a public donate address and they want to see the wallet linked to that specific address, they will see everything linked to that wallet.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> plausible deniability is harder for these public donate address because they are public, it already tell the scammer about the fact that 1> You have monero and 2>You use at least that address.
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<gfdshygti53:monero.social> It's different for private use on where if they just know you might own monero, you can just give them the decoy wallet with some dust and tell them you lost it all by gambling on CZ platform
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Well, if you have a public donate address and they want to see the wallet linked to that specific address, they will see everything linked to that wallet.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> plausible deniability is harder for these public donate address because they are public, it already tell the scammer about the fact that 1> You have monero and 2>You use at least that address.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> It's different for private use on where if they just know you might own monero, you can just give them the decoy wallet with some dust and tell them you lost it all by gambling on tradeogre
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> So yeah, separate you're public stuff from private one
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> Nihilist [iv.datura.network]: Regardless of the technical ability to have the Monero's cryptography do what you suggest, an adversary with your address and (false?) view key could easily check that you are concealing the real balance by sending a small amount to that address and seeing that it doesn't actually appear to the view key.
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> ok yea so it's actually a new feature i might suggest, how about this:
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> -having "plausibly deniable" subaddresses to recieve monero, MEANT for public use
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> -which basically allows you to recieve monero, but none of that monero shows in your wallet ( in the scenario where you are forced to type in your password, and prove that nothing was recieved to that address)
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> -and when you type another password, it reveals the moneros recieved/sent thanks to that address
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i do agree on the separation of public and private use, of course that should be the norm for everyone, but maybe that could be an extra step worthwhile
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i do agree on the separation of public and private use, of course that should be the norm for everyone, but maybe that could be an extra step thats worthwhile if easily doable
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i mean think about it, some regulator is all happy to get a hold of you and you show him clearly the wallet with the address, with no balance, irrefutable proof that you're clean
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> i mean think about it, some regulator is all happy to get a hold of you and you show him clearly the wallet with the address, with no balance, irrefutable proof that you're clean, i do think there's potential
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m-relay
<rucknium:monero.social> I just told you there's an easy test to tell it's fake.
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m-relay
<123bob123:matrix.org> Jokes on you i dont have monero :0
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> then to have the ability to select transactions to hide permanently, and to only be able to reveal that they happened by typing another password ?
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> then to have the ability to select transactions to hide permanently (and blocking it if it ever amounts to a negative balance), and to only be able to reveal that they happened by typing another password ?
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> then to have the ability to select transactions to hide permanently even if someone has the seed key (and blocking it if it ever amounts to a negative balance), and to only be able to reveal that they happened by typing another password ?
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> then to have the ability to select transactions to hide permanently even if someone has the seed key (and blocking it if it ever amounts to a negative balance), and to only be able to reveal that they happened by typing another password ?
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> that way even if they send monero to test if it gets recieved it actually shows it's being recieved because you select the transactions you want to hide
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> If you want to hide a transaction, you have to receive it first anyway.
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> So even if a thing where implemented to "hide" transaction, it would still be there on the chain so someone with the view key would still see it
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m-relay
<gfdshygti53:monero.social> Use a different wallet & seed for each donation (like someone donate, have some code that create a new wallet or something) might be the best solution for what you are talking about
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> ah like that yeah
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m-relay
<nihilist001:matrix.org> ok thanks for the inputs